One of the, one of the things that I've noticed from the questions actually, and also, from my own thinking about church over the years, one of the things that I've noticed is, it's very easy to criticise the church. I don't know if you've noticed that. I don't know if that's just me. I don't know if maybe it is just me, I don't know, I but it's very easy to get into this whole mindset of this is what's wrong with the church and we can produce the checklist and I've got a long checklist let me tell you. Even with CROWD church, I'm like, I want to change this, I want to do this and what, why, do you know what I mean, and all the things that you would love to see and love to change. So the fundamental bottom line is you've got to ask the question, why? Why do I want to do that? Why do other people do that? And one of the things that Tony said, which I think is so crucial here is the church is full of broken people. Nobody in the church is perfect. And there's this old phrase, this old saying which has sort of stuck with me over the years. If you ever find the perfect church, don't join it because you'll just screw it up when you do, right? Problem we have with the church is it's full of people like me, full of people like you, no disrespect of course, I'm sure you're wonderful. And whereas, me I, you know, maybe I have a few more issues I don't know. So you you're the fascinating thing about the church is it's an institution, that's the wrong phrase, it's a vehicle, I think that God has used to bring his kingdom to Earth but it is fundamentally flawed. And so we look at the church, which is imperfect to judge a perfect God. And that can lead to one or two problems.
I remember a few years ago, I was having a little bit of a crisis of, not a crisis of faith, maybe let's just, let's just put it a crisis of church. And I just, I was not happy with church for a number of reasons, which I won't bore you with. I didn't, I didn't seem to be getting a lot out of it, I didn't feel connected as I did, I felt the church was doing things that I didn't necessarily think it should do. And I just remember sitting there thinking, you know, what church is, it's never been about what I get from it, but it's always been about what I give. And that's how we judge church, not by what it gives us, but by what we give to it, if that makes sense. And that's really helped me throughout the years, because it's been super, super easy. Just to, like I say, criticise something which we in our heads should be perfect, because it's ordained by God who is a perfect God, but in reality is full of crazy people. And I know some of the comments that came through, sort of refer to that.
So how do we deal with that? How do we deal with people who in the church we struggle with, right? How do we deal with people, I mean, the church has probably housed more hypocrites than just about any other institution on the planet. Possibly, I mean, you know, we could talk about that. But we can agree that the church has a lot of hypocrisy about it, because again, you're talking about imperfect people. In fact, Sally did a talk a few months ago, which is on the YouTube playlist. You can go and watch the catch up video, are all Christians hypocrites? Because this whole thing about Christians being hypocrites, is a big deal. And Christians who say one thing or do another, the other thing we see in church is we can often see power struggles. And what I mean by this is, there is a bizarre hierarchy in church which I suppose resembles a traditional hierarchy like a pyramid, you know, the more you're in the church, the higher to the top you get. The way Jesus talks about it, though, is that pyramid is actually inverted. The longer you're in the church, the sort of the lower you get, the more you're supposed to serve, the more what it's supposed to be. But again, we're imperfect people. And I think this is probably why God talks a lot about forgiveness, and forgiving one another and bearing with one another, and accepting one another.
But I do want to say if you're watching this and you've been in church, and you've struggled with church, I'm not trying to make light of it at all because I, I've, I appreciate my church experience has probably been quite positive compared to a lot of people's. Yes, I had a bit of a crisis of church a few years ago. But I fundamentally think the church is the hope of the world. I mean, this is why we do CROWD. I think, you know, the the message of Christ and the gospel of Christ and Tony talked about being the mouth and speaking hope and being the hands and feet, and ministering to people. And the good stuff the church does, like we have James from Imagine If and all the stuff and all the work those guys do. You know, there's Sharon and Flyss who are doing some amazing stuff, reaching out to Afghan refugees who have been literally sort of, logged on Liverpool and sort of gone and no one's sort of helping them it seems, but they're, the Christians are going in and the church is going in and doing some amazing stuff and, and blessing the refugees and practical things like bringing them bikes and push chairs and stuff like that. It's amazing to see and I love the fact that church is doing that and the church is is is the mouthpiece, it is doing these practical works and it is, it is the hope of the world. And I appreciate that's my experience and it's not everybody's experience of church and I I've heard some horror stories. And I genuinely have. There's been a lot of abuse in the church, abuse of power, abuse by usually men in positions of power against very vulnerable people, and it is it's abhorrent. And I if you have suffered with that I cannot begin to express my sorrow. I cannot begin to express my anger that that has happened to you because it shouldn't have. The one place you should be safe is the church. It's the, it's the one place on earth, where we should feel safe. But the church hasn't been great at making people feel safe. And I think where wherever you, wherever you are on your experience with church, I would implore you not to give up on it. Because I think still the church is the hope of the world. It is still the vehicle that God uses to bring change to the world, to bring change to the planet.
And that's kind of how I deal with it in my head, it's like, it's still what God uses, it's still full of broken people, of which I am one. So what can I do? What can I bring? What can I give? How can I play my part, and not just become a consumer, which I think is one of the big dangers of modern day church is we become is we become passive Christians in the West, where we go to church, and it becomes an entertainment, it becomes a show, it becomes it becomes all about what church gives you. And I think if you're in that place, you probably should think about, should think about what's going on, do you know what I mean, because that doesn't to me sound right, doesn't feel right. The church should be full of life, it should be vibrant. It should be a place where you give not just your money, but your time, your energy, your talents, your love, your creativity. Tony talked about church being family. And I love that. I love the fact that when our kids were born, there was a queue of people outside our house just basically giving us food do you know what I mean. Because obviously, you know, when you have a new child, the last thing on your mind is cooking wholesome meals. And so the church rallies around you, and just just pours out their heart to you, which is just is wonderful. And so what's been said in the comments here, Sharon says well done to Bridge too and the other organisations which are doing a fantastic job supporting the Afghan refugees in Liverpool now. Absolutely. I think it's amazing work. And I think as the church we're called to be salt, and light aren't we? Called to make a difference. Matt's put here it's very hard not to give up on the church on the church, when the church has been a massive source of hurt, which I get. And I appreciate. I think it's it's hard to keep picking yourself up, it's hard to keep walking in forgiveness. And I wish I could make it easier I genuinely do. But I think it would be naive of me just to just to sort of pass it off and, and say, this that or the other. But fundamentally, the purpose of the church is it's, it's the body of Christ, it's to bring the glory and the Kingdom of God onto Earth, and so we, we can't give up on it. And we have to play our part. And God help us to find that, God help us to find churches where we can belong, you know, this sort of sense of belonging and all that sort of stuff. I think it's so so important. And I mean, on the on the flip side, like I said, for me, I've had a good experience of church. I've got a lot of friends in the church, a lot of family in the church, I love the church. I love going to church. I love being at church. I think the church is life transforming. I think sometimes, you know, like most people. I struggled with the talks, you know, at church, I don't know if you're like me, where, and this is why I love CROWD, it was a real privilege to be able to do something like this, because Tony does his talk. You guys can throw your comments, you guys can throw your questions. I love that. Because you don't typically do that on a Sunday morning when the guy's doing his talk, you don't put your hand up, go excuse me? I have a question. Do you know what I mean? We just we just don't for whatever reason, maybe because we're British, maybe. And we just don't do that, but, and so I love the fact that we can come together and we can ask questions and contribute because to me, church is all about contribution. It's not about me doing everything down the camera. It's about you guys in the comments. It's about sharing your thoughts, sharing your ideas. It's a place where we can belong and contribute. And so, yeah, lots going on with the church. That's for sure.
One of the questions which I find quite fascinating that came in. And we'll probably close the conversation street with this. One of the questions that came in and actually comes in a lot about the church, especially if you're not used to the church, is is the church outdated? Is it just a place full of rules? And what I'm hoping is that from this talk, from Tony's talk, and I guess from my conversation, you've realised that maybe it isn't. That actually, actually the church is a great place where you can, where you can actually belong, where you can contribute, and it is the hope of the world. It's not outdated. I can't think of anything in the world that can bring hope to broken and hurting people like the church should, not that it always does, but that the church should. And I, I think it's an amazing thing. And so, if you're new to church, if you're not a member of a church, if you've been to church and struggle with church in the past, I'd love for you to stay connected with us, what we're, what we're doing here at CROWD, would love you to come along to the live streams and as you feel able, come and join in sort of community groups where you get to meet other people, joining the comments. We get questions and comments all the time from people who watch the live stream, they never comment on the feed, but they eventually they'll come in and say, I've watched this or watch that. And it's beautiful. And I love it. So as and when you're ready, we'd love we'd love for you to sort of say hi, but in the meantime, you are welcome here at CROWD church. We are not going to do everything perfectly, you are going to have to bear with us. And I would appreciate you doing that genuinely. But our heart is sincere. And our desire is to bring the kingdom of God through the camera, to wherever you live, and to just introduce you to a guy called Jesus who can change your life for the better. And the more we get to know him, the more we grow to be like him, the more interesting life just becomes, the more meaningful life becomes. And you know, life's about meaning, isn't it? You know, mindfulness is good, meaningfulness is better. And I think that's what the church is all about. So do stay connected with us. We're just we're loving what we're doing. And we've got some great stuff coming forward. Now. All of that said, I did give a little brief heads up at the start.