From Anger and Infidelity to a Life Transformed by Grace
Guest: Steven Pemberton
Here’s a summary of this week’s story:
In this episode of "What's the Story?", hosts Sadaf Beynon and Matt Edmundson engage in a heartfelt conversation with Steven Pemberton from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Steven shares his profound journey of faith, detailing his early years in the church, the challenges he faced as a teenager, and the pivotal moments that led him back to Christianity. He candidly discusses the trials in his marriage, including overcoming infidelity, and how these experiences have strengthened his faith and family bonds. Steven's story is one of redemption and transformation, highlighting the power of forgiveness and community. He also reflects on the impact of his renewed faith on his extended family, illustrating how one decision can influence generations. This episode offers an inspiring testament to the enduring power of God's grace.
Key Takeaways:
1. Embrace Forgiveness: Steven highlights the importance of forgiveness, not just as a religious concept but as a practical tool for personal well-being. He shares how holding onto anger and resentment can manifest physically and emotionally, and how releasing these feelings through forgiveness can lead to a healthier, more peaceful life.
2. Value Community and Relationships: Steven discusses his journey from being isolated and angry to valuing community and relationships. He emphasises the significance of surrounding oneself with community because "that's where God does his best work".
3. Trust in God During Adversity: Steven's story illustrates the power of faith in overcoming life's challenges. He shares how trusting in God during difficult times, such as marital struggles and career changes, has led to personal and spiritual growth. His experience underscores how faith and God's grace can provide strength, direction, and the means to endure when facing adversity.
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Sadaf Beynon [0:01 - 1:13]: Hey there, and welcome to What's the Story? We're an inquisitive bunch of hosts on a mission to uncover stories about faith and courage from everyday people. In doing that, we get the privilege of chatting with amazing guests and have the opportunity to delve into their faith journey, the hurdles they've overcome, and the life lessons they've learned along the way. If you enjoy our podcast, don't forget to subscribe and sign up for our weekly newsletter at our website, whatsthestorypodcast.com it's your direct line to the latest episodes and detailed show notes delivered straight to your inbox. What's the Story is brought to you by Crowd Church, who fully understand that stepping into a traditional church might not be everyone's cup of Joe. Crowd Church provides a digital sanctuary, a safe space to explore the Christian faith, where you can engage in meaningful conversations rather than just simply spectating. So whether you're new to the Christian faith or in search of a new church family, visit Crowd Church. And if you have any questions, just drop them an email to hellorowd Church. They would love to connect with you. And now let's meet your host and our special guest for today.
Matt Edmundson [1:14 - 2:06]: Okay. Welcome to what's the Story? My name is Matt Edmundson. If we've not met before, very warm welcome to you to this podcast. It's great that you're here. What's the Story is brought to you by crowdchurch. And I get to have this wonderful pleasure of heading up crowd and also heading up this podcast and talking to wonderful people like Steven. Today we are chatting with Steven Pemberton, all the way from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Yes, he is. Steven and I have met in our former. Is the wrong phrase. In our alternate working careers, I should say. But he's been married for 11 years. They have one son, and he has been a Christian for 23 years, which for some of you might seem like a really long time. Some of us, he might just feel like he's still a young chap, but either way, Steven, we're glad to have you on the show, man. Thanks for joining us. How are you doing today?
Steven Pemberton [2:06 - 2:10]: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I'm fantastic. I'm really excited to have this conversation.
Matt Edmundson [2:10 - 2:30]: Yeah, it's great to have you. We were chatting, it's fair to say. I feel like we've sucked the life out of you a little bit because you're on the E Commerce podcast, weren't you? That's how we met. And then Sadaf got you on to her podcast. Which is the Podjunction podcast. And now you're on this one as well.
Steven Pemberton [2:30 - 2:31]: Yes.
Matt Edmundson [2:32 - 2:36]: I'm really sorry. Sucking the life out of you.
Steven Pemberton [2:36 - 2:47]: It's my pleasure. I'm just excited to be here. I think you guys do a fantastic job. So any way that I can support the show, if that's me being here, if that's me cross promoting it, whatever it looks like. I'm just excited to be able to help wherever I can.
Matt Edmundson [2:48 - 2:53]: Oh, legend, Legend. So we said in the bio, you've been a Christian for 23 years.
Steven Pemberton [2:53 - 2:54]: How.
Matt Edmundson [2:54 - 2:59]: And obviously you're not 23 years old. I mean, obviously you still look quite young, but you're not 23.
Steven Pemberton [2:59 - 3:01]: Have I shaved my face? Maybe.
Matt Edmundson [3:02 - 3:06]: Yeah. So is that why you have the beard? So you don't look like him?
Steven Pemberton [3:06 - 3:06]: Look older?
Matt Edmundson [3:07 - 3:58]: Yeah. That was one of the founding pastors of the. The church that I'm connected to, Frontline, that I'm part of, Guy called Nick. He was the same way. And he always had a beard, because when he didn't have a beard, he looked about 12, which was never a good look for a pastor of the church. And also, his wife would never let him do it. And so there was one day, I think she was going away on mission for, like, a couple of weeks, and he was at home. So he did this sort of, if you give me enough money thing, I'll shave the beard off. And so everybody gave him a chunk of money to shave the beard off because Jenny was going away, and we thought, oh, we could probably get away with it. And he did. And then everybody went, yeah, no, just please grow that back as quickly as possible. It was really funny, really fun. So how did it start for you then?
Steven Pemberton [3:58 - 4:50]: That's a great question. So for me, I grew up in church, and I literally was born, and I was the kid who was underneath the pews and drawing on the bottom of the pews. I was the one who. I was in every single function of the church from a very young age. Now, what I found to be really fascinating, because like you said in the introduction right there in that bio, was, I've been a Christian for 23 years, but I didn't actually understand. The first time I said I was saved was much younger than that. I was probably five. And I thought that I had given my life to Christ because I just said the prayer, right? But I didn't actually know what that meant. And when I finally understood why I would do that and even to a certain degree, who God was, it was actually a school. We. I Went to a private school, and we were in chapel one day and they had a movie on about nature of all things.
Matt Edmundson [4:50 - 4:50]: Yeah.
Steven Pemberton [4:51 - 5:36]: And I just remember, I distinctly remember that there was this bee pollinating a flower. And it was just the intricacy of the flower, the intricacy of the bee, how all this ecosystem works together. And I'm sitting there because I'm a very analytical and logical person, and I go, there has to have been a creator to make this. I don't think that it just magically all came together perfectly like this. Some someone or something had to have created every single thing that I see. And in that moment, that was my first experience with God and just saying, okay, God has to be real for this to all work in conjunction the way that it does. So that was when I fully prayed the prayer again. But this time I understood what I was saying. I understood why I was doing it. And that was when I really got saved.
Matt Edmundson [5:36 - 5:43]: Yeah. So for those that might not have been around the church, what do you mean by the word saved? Let's just clarify that.
Steven Pemberton [5:43 - 7:03]: So in the New Testament, basically, what that talks about is you are giving your life to Christ. So you are, in certain regards, you're kind of denouncing the ways that you lived beforehand. So if you were in a life, like, we're all born sinful. We all have sinful nature. We all do things that from the moment we're born, we cry to get attention, to get fed, to get all these things. So for me, what being saved looks like is being willing to let go of my ideas, my ways, my thoughts, and focusing on, okay, who is this Jesus guy? Who is God? And what do they, in conjunction want for me? Like, what is this New Testament saying? What is the Old Testament saying? What are the principles here? And how can I live this out? Because the reason why I say it's basically letting go of your old self is there's a lot of things, especially if you're reading Matthew 5, 6, and 7 with the sermon on the Mount, where he's saying to love your neighbors, even if they hate you. So if they smack you on the right cheek, give them the other one. If they take your coat and cork, give them the shirt, too. All these things are counterintuitive to who we are. And so being able to release that, let go of the fleshly desires and to focus more on what the Word says and focus more on the leading of the Holy Spirit, that is what being saved means to me.
Matt Edmundson [7:04 - 8:46]: Yeah, that's very powerful. It's a really, it's an interesting phrase, isn't it, to be saved. And I very clearly, in the New Testament, you know, if you say with your heart, say with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, believing your heart, he was raised from the dead, you shall be saved. That's what he says. Romans, Romans 10, isn't it? And so it's a really, it's an interesting word because having lived in North Carolina for a few years when I was 18, it is a word I think at the time everybody understood. People would say to you, are you saved? And if you didn't know what it meant, then you clearly weren't. Right. It's just, it's just that that's, that's sort of where it was. But bizarrely was never a phrase I rarely heard in the UK until I came back and started to sort of get involved in the Christian Union and a bit more involved in church. Because I didn't become a Christian until I was 18. It was due to my trip to North Carolina, my living in North Carolina. And I love the language of it because saved, the opposite of saved means immortal danger. I'm in peril. I mean, and the thing about it is, when I, before I was a Christian, I didn't know that that was my state of being. I mean, there had to be this understanding of, actually, no, where I'm perched right now, it's probably not the safest place to be. And so there is now I. Therefore, according to the New Testament, there is a savior and there is this idea of being saved. Saved from what? Saved from everything bad and saved into everything good, you know?
Steven Pemberton [8:46 - 8:48]: Yeah, exactly.
Matt Edmundson [8:48 - 9:10]: It's a really interesting idea, isn't it? And it's, it's interesting. So you're nine years old at this point, watching the bees on the flowers. Interestingly enough, I was saying before we hit the record button, I was in the car a little bit longer than anticipated, coming back to do this interview and I was listening to the Carey Newhoff podcast. I don't know if you've come across Carey's podcast.
Steven Pemberton [9:10 - 9:10]: No.
Matt Edmundson [9:12 - 9:47]: He's a church pastor from Canada and he talks a lot about leadership and he interviews Christians and non Christians and talks about the whole talk. It's really fascinating. And on his podcast he was interviewing Malcolm Gladwell, the very well known author. Malcolm Gladwell was talking about how his dad, who was a devout Christian and how just the sheer beauty in flowers was the key, was one of the key things which sort of strengthened his dad's faith because like Hugh, he looked at the Flowers. And when there's no way you can tell me there's no God just by the sheer beauty of these flowers, I can see that there is.
Steven Pemberton [9:48 - 9:51]: Wow, look at that. That's fascinating.
Matt Edmundson [9:51 - 10:15]: Yeah, it's really interesting. And this is obviously what worked for you as well, which is fascinating. So how did it affect. I mean, you're obviously young. I say young. You were nine years old, I suppose, when this all happened. How was that as a teenager? Because I think that's always one of the first big tests, isn't it? Is how you navigate your teen years in your faith.
Steven Pemberton [10:15 - 11:57]: Yeah. So what I found to be really interesting is the difference between the Christian that I was when I first got saved and the Christian I am today. Because when I got saved, yes, I went to church. Went to church every Sunday, was there every Wednesday. But I only knew God by the words in the book. I didn't actually have the relationship, which is important. I mean, Jesus talks about in the New Testament that I'm going to go away and I'm going to send another. I'm going to send the Holy Spirit. And so for me is I knew of God, I knew of Jesus, but I had no idea who's the Holy Spirit. Is somebody spooky like what. What am I supposed, am I supposed to be afraid of this? So I never leaned into that and what ended up happening. So when I was a teenager, I was a leader in the youth group. Our youth group was exploding at that time. And I went on a missions trip, incredible missions trip. But because I didn't have the relationship, I had the head knowledge that there was. That there was good and bad, that there was things I was supposed to do and things I wasn't supposed to do, especially have wearing the label of a Christian. And to me, I leaned much more into my flesh certain times. Like I battled with lust for a long time. There was things I was doing then as a teenager where it's like, hey, this probably isn't the smartest thing. And what I found to be fascinating then was there would still be opportunities that the Lord would use me to impact these younger kids. Because at that time I was in high school and I would impact these younger kids and then I would turn around and I still would live in sin. And I think that this is the, especially in the Western church, this is something that I've come to understand a little bit better is a lot of times, at least for me, this was what I even talked to my wife about yesterday.
Matt Edmundson [11:57 - 11:57]: Yeah.
Steven Pemberton [11:57 - 13:02]: Was I. Would I over leverage the Word grace. So I knew that, oh, his mercies are new every day. So that means I can just mess up every single day and just ask him to forgive me. And I'm good. I should be fine, right? But there should be a holy reverence that you have for the Lord if you truly love someone. If I loved my wife. If I said, I love my wife and I cheated on her every day. And I said, hey, you said your mercies are new every day. That's not showing. By my actions, I truly love her. That's just saying, hey, I'm taking advantage of you because you said that you would do this for me every single day. Right? So I've come to learn that grace is there, and his grace is abundant. And for me, as I've also been stepping more into this reverence of who he is and loving him for who he is, not just the things he does in my life. And that has changed everything for me. So that in high school, I wish I would have been more leaning into that, because there's. I remember my youth pastor, he was kind of my mentor at the time, and he stood before all of us and he said, hey, I got offered this associate pastor's position, and I'm not taking it. I feel like the Lord wants me right here, and this is where I'm going to be. And then two days later, he takes the position.
Matt Edmundson [13:02 - 13:03]: Wow.
Steven Pemberton [13:03 - 14:23]: And I just remember feeling so betrayed. And he's gone. He leaves the church. And I'm just devastated because my leader told me one thing and then did something completely the opposite. And it was fascinating. Now, looking back, because when the. When the Holy Spirit rests on a place, when God dwells within a place, you can feel the difference. And so that youth group was just filled with spirit. You could. Every single time, there's people's, you know, people's lives getting changed. There was souls getting saved. And when he did that, coming back that next Wednesday, just a few days later, it was dead in there. Yes, there was people still there, people still showing up, but it did not feel any different than going to a gas station. There was nothing there. And the. Because of how fast he left, there was nobody that could step into leadership. There was this huge void. There was no one that understood what to do next. And in those moments, because I didn't have the relationship with the Lord in the way that I do now, I just ended up leaving the church, and I didn't go back to church again. So from 16, when I left, I didn't go back again until I was 23, so quite a while I decided that I'm just done with this. It's like I don't. I don't care about church, don't care about the community. I'm good. They're going to hurt me anyways.
Matt Edmundson [14:24 - 14:24]: Yeah.
Steven Pemberton [14:24 - 15:25]: So I left and that was that. So, yes, that whole part that you're asking about those teenage years is very formative in those moments of understanding. Okay, I don't really want this because these. These people are sitting here, they're praying, they're doing all these things, but they're still living the same way I'm living. I say I'm saved, and I'm still out here living for the world. So what's really the difference? I don't see anybody living differently. I don't see these people that are praying and getting their prayers answered. I don't see someone. Like, at that time, I'd never seen anyone healed. I'd never seen any kind of financial breakthrough for people. It's like, oh, you're going through something. I'll pray for you. And that was just kind of a terminology that they would say, but not actually do. And unfortunately, because I would hear the religious side of it. So they were practicing the religion, but not actually walking in the relationship. Then when I. When I walked away from it, I didn't feel all that bad because there was no one came after me. There was no one tried to keep in contact with me. I just kind of disappeared into the shadows. And that was. That was hard in those few years, no doubt.
Matt Edmundson [15:25 - 15:33]: And there's a lot there isn't. There's a lot there. I'm intrigued. Have you ever connected with your old youth pastor since that time?
Steven Pemberton [15:33 - 17:36]: Yes, I have, actually. And now here's the thing that I haven't done is more recently, especially being a business owner over the last four years, I've learned how to have good communication, even if it is. Even if it does seem like conflict, because you can have a good conversation through conflict. And there's a lot of growth that can happen in the middle of a conflict. And I think that that's something I've begun to do more of. And I think that that's someone I need to go back and talk to because there is a trauma there. And if I could just talk to him and understand what his mindset was, why he decided to make the moves that he did and kind of what happened afterwards, because he wasn't at the church very long after he became the associate pastor. It was very interesting. He became the associate pastor. Then the lead pastor was in a scandal. So that lead pastor leaves. Then he becomes a lead pastor. He's there two or three years, and he leaves and goes somewhere else. So, yes, to answer your question shortly, I have not had a recent conversation. I did talk to him after that, and what I thought to be interesting was when I talked to him again was right when I was getting married. So I was getting married young. I got married. My wife and I were engaged at 18. And so when we were engaged at 18, we. I come to him because he's the only pastor I know. I don't know any other pastor. So when I come to him as he's. He kind of takes us through marriage therapy beforehand, like marriage counseling beforehand. But he gives us this little book, and he said, here, just read this. And that was pretty much it. And we ended up getting pregnant before we got married. So then the church basically denounced us. They said, you can't have your wedding here. You can't have your reception here. And that was devastating because at that time, like I said, I'd already walked away from the church. I was walking. I actually walked back into the church because of getting married, and I wanted to do it right. And then them saying, hey, you can't do this because you made what the world would consider. Well, the world wouldn't. But the Christian community considered a mistake at that time. That. That hurt me. And that was just another thing that just pushed me away from the church at that time.
Matt Edmundson [17:36 - 18:33]: That's really interesting. And, Steven, I'm sorry about that. I mean, Christians have this ability to. They're one of the few organizations that sort of know how to kill their own wounded, if that makes sense. Yes, it's. It's a really fascinating place to be on occasions. And I. And again, having experienced Southern Christianity from the south of America, I think it's quite a unique form of. It's not a criticism, it just is different. The way Christianity is praying, some of it is beautiful and, you know, it caused me to give my life to the Lord. And some of it I have questions over, but I'm curious, looking back over it now, your faith is obviously strong. I'm, you know that there's obviously going to have to have been some kind of forgiveness from you towards a whole bunch of folks, I'm guessing.
Steven Pemberton [18:34 - 20:04]: Yes. So firstly, you're talking about the Southern church. I grew up in Tennessee, so Tennessee was where I gave my life to Christ. That's where I went to church. So I grew up in the South. And growing up in a Southern Baptist church was very interesting. I think when. For me, when you talk about forgiveness, two things. One is, I just realized through having this conversation with you that I need to go back and I need to forgive my youth pastor for that time. I think that, honestly, I think we confuse forgiveness with forgetfulness because we. We think, well, time heals all. So if I just leave them alone, if I don't talk about them, if I don't talk to them over a long enough time horizon, then I've forgiven them. Like, that's not the truth. If you ever have those, even a moment like I just had, I feel it in my chest. I feel my chest tighten up a little bit. I start reminiscing, remembering how I felt in those moments. I realized that there's some level of unforgiveness that I'm holding in that. In that place and for the most likely that church, and especially for him. But when I think about forgiveness, that's been one of the biggest keys to me coming back into the church and especially here the past few years. It's just realizing that there's been so much animosity and anger I've held for people my whole life. For my whole life. I was actually a decently angry kid. I was angry all the time. And I thought that being angry was a superpower. Like, you know, if you're angry, you have all this adrenaline pumping, so it makes you stronger, all these things. And so I used to be angry.
Matt Edmundson [20:04 - 20:08]: Anger is a superpower. Love that. Yes, I can see that being a T shirt slogan.
Steven Pemberton [20:08 - 21:31]: Anger is a superpower. Yeah. But that was. That's who I thought who I was for a very long period of time. So I've just had to go back and learn how to forgive people for things that. Because I think for me especially, I've realized that a lot of times people have hurt me. Not meaning to. There's especially living in first person. You think that everyone, if they. If they do something wrong, they did it on purpose. They did it specifically to hurt you as a person. And there's times, especially when it comes to feedback or criticisms, that I've taken it to heart. It's like they're attacking me as a person. It's like. But are they really? Or are you just taking that to heart? When realistically, they're only talking about the outcome, they're talking about the result, they're talking about your process, whatever it is. So forgiveness is one of those key pieces for me for whether you're A Christian or not is being able to release those people, being able to say, hey, you know what? I don't appreciate what you did, but I forgive you for it all the same. Because there's actually, for me, what I've noticed physically is when I do that I can breathe a little bit easier, I sleep a little bit better. There's actual physical, physical things that happen if you don't, if you hold onto that, you start having more tension in your neck, tension in your chest. It actually becomes stress, which then over time can affect your heart. It can affect different things of you, physical, physically and with your health. And so for me is learning how to forgive and helping other people walk through. Forgiveness has been key in my walk, especially here recently with the Lord.
Matt Edmundson [21:31 - 22:42]: Yeah, that's fantastic to hear. And it's not an unusual story, if that makes sense. And when people probably said there's a couple in Liverpool called Mick and Len Connolly. Now Mick is the brother of Dave Connolly, who those listening may know who he is if they're connected with crowd because he's been on crowd a lot. Again, one of the founding pastors, he was the other founding pastor that didn't shave his beard and therefore didn't look good. So Nick's Dave's nephew, Mick's son, Mick and Lynn's son was murdered on the streets of Liverpool. Now this is. And this is Liverpool. Yes, there is crime in Liverpool, but the murder rate is not. I mean, when someone gets murdered, it is a big deal here. And he was killed not because of anything he did. He just happened to be the wrong place at the wrong time. Mistaken identity, I think was the result. And Mick and Lynn have written a book about forgiveness about their whole journey. You know, how do you forgive the people that killed your son? And so I look at people like Mick and Lynn and go, well, if you can do it, then I have no excuse whatsoever.
Steven Pemberton [22:43 - 22:43]: Right?
Matt Edmundson [22:44 - 23:10]: I can. Who was it that once said, you know, unforgiveness is a bit like drinking poison and expecting it to hurt the other person? It's a bit like not quite sure how that works, but. So this is quite. It's fascinating if I can go back to the church thing as well. Looking back now, were the church right or wrong to not let you get married there? I'm curious to know what your thinking is on that now.
Steven Pemberton [23:10 - 25:17]: So I think my thinking on it now is for me, if I was in a similar position, I would have. I would personally still let them get married. If I was talking to a couple for a Couple different reasons. Is one, I know, if I know this person, they grew up in my youth group, they left because of something happening. Now they're coming back. This is my opportunity to bring them back into the house of the Lord. Sure they've made mistakes, they've been out in the world, they've done some things that probably wasn't smart and now they're seeking guidance. So if I turn them away because of a, because of religious reasons or religious structuring that what am I actually leaving them to? I think that that's what I think of even now as being a Christian is. Okay, let's say that these people show up at our church and they're, they're tattooed from head to toe and they're, they're, they're cursing and they're sitting there and they're still drinking and doing all the things of the world. Where else do they go? So if they show up at the church and I turn them away, then where do they go? They go back to the same place as they were doing the same things they were doing and they're going to end up in a place that no one wants to go. So for me, looking back, I wish they would have just lovingly guided me through that because I think that my early years of marriage could have been significantly different if I just would have had the right guidance. But because I felt as if we were too. I mean usually using this term exiled is because I felt that way. It led me to just doing my own thing. It's like, okay, great. So that means I just got to figure all this out on my own. And for me, I've been strong willed enough for long enough that it's like I will, I'll figure it out. I feel as if I'm smart enough to make this happen. I don't need anyone else. And that was kind of, that was my, my, my crux for a long time was that I can be a lone wolf, I'm smart, I got this. And unfortunately what ended up happening, or fortunately, honestly for me was I found that I need community. So I wish when I was young, when I'm 18 years old expecting a child, that or I'm at that time I was 19, expecting a child, that there would have been elders from this church guide being the right ways to go. Yeah, that's something I wish would have happened.
Matt Edmundson [25:17 - 26:54]: Yeah, I fully agree. I think church should, if you can't have broken people in church, there's going to be nobody there, you know, and that's how I look at it and we were doing. I was talking about this in church on Sunday, you know, the parable of the lost sheep. And at the start of that whole parable, which, if you've never heard of it before, dear listener, is a parable where Jesus talks about how there's a hundred sheep, one of them sort of wanders off. You kind of leave the 99 because they're safe, and you go after the One and you bring it back. And this is talking about Jesus heart. It's like, my heart is for the One. I want to go, who's ever outside, I want to bring him in, right? This is what we teach. But at the start of it, what's fascinating is who's in the audience with Jesus. You've got the Pharisees and scribes on one side, and they're complaining because Jesus is eating with the tax collectors and the sinners. Now, the tax collectors were a whole bunch of not very nice people, really, were they? Tax collectors? I mean, they were Jews who were taking money off their fellow Jews to give to the Romans and stealing a bit in the middle. So it was kind of like they're screwing over their own people, in effect. So again, not the kind of people you want to be around. And then sinners, well, basically anybody that was just outside of the moral code of conduct, you know, they'd sort of lived a very different lifestyle to what maybe the Bible talked about. And Jesus is eating with them. And I find it quite fascinating that he was doing this, because I don't think the tax collectors and sinners would be welcoming quite a lot of churches.
Steven Pemberton [26:54 - 26:55]: No.
Matt Edmundson [26:55 - 27:24]: Do you know what I mean? And it's that kind of. It's a shame. It is an utter shame, because your heart has got to be for the one, the loss. You know, it's that kind of. If there's any chance of getting this person back, let's make it happen. Let's not push them out. And I still find that quite odd behavior. And if you're listening to this and that's happened to you, I'm truly sorry, because that's not what the church should be about, in my opinion. Obviously, people have a different opinion. What made you an angry kid?
Steven Pemberton [27:25 - 29:43]: So what made me an angry kid growing up was a multitude of reasons, but one of them was I used to see that from my dad. My dad used to always just want to keep a chip on his shoulder. And being someone where my dad was, he was my role model as a young age. I always wanted to be like My dad. And then also I would just be upset at my mom at that time, because my mom, she worked a full time job and she would do all these little side businesses. So I never saw her. And I just remember being really angry that I didn't have my mom, really. And also what I've just found growing up was the kind of music I listened to. I always listened to rock and roll. And that music was not very conducive to me being any happier. And it also, over time, it was just the experiences. Right. This is something I love. There's a good friend of mine, his name is Fletcher, and he wrote a book called the Practice of Feeling Good. And in there he says, what you focus on, you'll feel. And that's what I focused on. I focused that no one had my best interest at heart, that no one actually cared about me, no one loved me, that no one wanted to help me, that it was just me. And because I saw life through that lens, I started building the proverbial table, building the legs under this table of belief, saying, this is all true because this person did this one thing. And that could have been my closest friend. But if my closest friend did one thing, it's like, oh, yep, See, I knew it. I knew they didn't actually care about me. I knew they actually didn't love me because they did one thing. And that, that was why for a long time I would be angry. And it was also, you get what you give. So when I'm acting angry, I'm acting this way. I'm acting standoffish. I would have people in my life, so I would be in. I would have a relationship with this girl and then she would go and cheat on me and I'd be like, oh, yeah. See, every woman is this way. Every girl's like this. And realistically, I was just getting what I was giving off. I was actually receiving what I was giving. And I think that's one of those principles I didn't fully understand because that's even biblical. It's. We talk about it in Luke, where it's like pressed down, shaking together and running over. It's like. But if you give discord, if you sow seeds of just anger and hatred, then you're going to get what you give. Yeah, you're eventually going to. You're going to reap what you sow. So, yeah, that's kind of my whole tangent of when I was angry. I was just angry at everyone. And it was easy to see because my face comes with subtitles sometimes.
Matt Edmundson [29:44 - 29:57]: So, yeah, that's another T shirt slogan right there. I love that one. It is interesting, isn't it, how I find that this is true for me? If I start feeling angry, it's easy to feel more angry.
Steven Pemberton [29:57 - 29:57]: Yes.
Matt Edmundson [29:57 - 30:42]: Especially in a world now where, you know, it's easy to get your theology from Fox News. Right. Which is just going to make you more and more angry. And I'm not disparaging Fox News or espousing any particular political persuasion, but it does promote anger. It does promote this sense of injustice that actually this is wrong. And you kind of go, well, don't know how that. How good that's doing for your emotional wellbeing. Yes. If I'm honest with you, just go back and focus on the one. Maybe it's a lot easier. A lot easier. So you've been married married 10 years. You said the early years of your marriage would have been a lot easier. I'm curious, is that the biggest challenge that you faced in your Christian walk was when you were first married?
Steven Pemberton [30:42 - 30:58]: Ooh, that's a great question. I think so. I've been married 11 years as of August, and the first. So I've been married 11. I've been happily married for the last four, and the first seven were just incredible.
Matt Edmundson [30:58 - 30:59]: I shouldn't laugh, but that's a really.
Steven Pemberton [30:59 - 31:25]: Interesting way to put it. Absolutely. No, I love. I love saying that because everyone always laughs at that, but it's true. I mean, the first seven years, we went through everything that you should not go through as a married couple. I mean, we were married very young. We had a kid young. We both quit our jobs young, went into business, lost everything young. I mean, all of that before I turned 21. As I was turning 21, we were losing everything.
Matt Edmundson [31:25 - 31:25]: Wow.
Steven Pemberton [31:25 - 32:24]: And then after that, we end up. I end up working in this corporate job for a period of time. My wife. I don't know how to love somebody because I had never really felt loved. That's what we talked about, me being an angry kid. So because I didn't know how to love, I was just loving my wife the way I thought you're supposed to, by being a provider. So I'm taking care of the bills and doing all those things, but I'm not loving her the way that she actually feels loved. And every time she would ask me to love her differently. So just to hold her and do the like. Just to love her, do, hold her hand, like, do normal things, I just told her I couldn't do that. And eventually, what ends up Happening is I push her into infidelity, she ends up cheating on me, and we will have to walk. We walk through all that, and eventually what ends up happening is we move away from that city. So grew up in Tennessee, got married in Tennessee, had my son in Tennessee. But then when we left because of the job and we moved to Fort Worth, Texas, that's where I actually finally walked back into church.
Matt Edmundson [32:25 - 32:25]: Right.
Steven Pemberton [32:25 - 33:03]: So when you're asking, was the first few years of my marriage the biggest obstacle? I think more than I think when I think of my spiritual walk, my biggest obstacle was just coming back to God and actually figuring out who he is instead of just thinking, okay, God of the Old Testament is someone different than the God of the New Testament. God in the Old Testament, he's just a God of war. He just wants to destroy a bunch of people. And then the God of the New Testament, he just loves people. So he's got to be two different people. And in Fort Worth, because I still. I didn't go to church. Like, I still hadn't been in a church in years. So in Fort Worth was my first experience with going back to church. And it was just such a fascinating story because it was Easter.
Matt Edmundson [33:03 - 33:04]: Yeah.
Steven Pemberton [33:04 - 33:53]: And my wife tells me, it's like, hey, it's Easter. I want us to go to church. And I said, I. We can avoid all that. Jesus dies, he raises from the grave three days later, Congratulations, it's Easter. And I said, that's it. And she said. She said, Steven, this means a lot to me. I want you to go. And I said, I'm gonna go, and it's just not gonna be worth my time. And I remember going. And we showed up late, and when we show up, there's three. The only three seats left are on the front row. So we go. And I never sit front row. I was always sitting in the back. So I go. And we end up sitting front row. And the pastor comes up, and he's standing in the pulpit, and he turns and he looks right at me, and he said, I bet you thought that you were gonna come and hear about Jesus dying on the cross and rising three days later. And that was the story of Easter. He's like, but that's not what you're getting today. And I was. I was floored. I was floored because I'd never had an experience like that.
Matt Edmundson [33:53 - 33:53]: Wow.
Steven Pemberton [33:53 - 33:56]: And he literally looked right at me and said, this.
Matt Edmundson [33:56 - 33:57]: God was on your case, man.
Steven Pemberton [33:57 - 36:52]: Yeah. So that was when I said, okay, I'll at least see. So I started going Back to church. We went to this little church for a while and that was what just sparked me to get back into Christianity. And it was cool for us to move. Then we moved to Tyler, Texas, which is in East Texas. And we moved there and we lived there for four years. But that time period was a time when we, we went to church. But I just really didn't feel connected. The most connected I felt was I started reading my Bible again, I started praying. And this whole time, for over three years straight, my wife was praying for me to become the spiritual head of our household. And I remember in 2020, that's when I was, I said, I don't really go to church. I don't really know what to do. It's like, but I know how to talk to God. I can talk to him the way I talk to you. And I are speaking right now. So every single day I had a 30 minute drive one way and I would just talk to him the way I'm talking to you. And that was when I started having these revelations. I started actually feeling the presence of the Holy Spirit. I actually started feeling loved. I started feeling all these things and understanding where it was coming from biblically. And that was when I felt like I had this. The first time that God really spoke to me. And he. That's when I felt like he told me to quit the job. And so when I quit the job and I'm standing writing down visions, I'm writing all these things down and then to see it play out and then there be success in it, that was when, that was when everything changed was because my family had never seen it. Like me and my wife had never seen it, my extended family had never seen it. Nobody actually had this deep relationship with the Lord. They all just kind of tiptoed in Christianity. So for me to go from someone who wasn't in church to someone who was leading my household, who was starting to cuss less, who was walking through not watching pornography, who was deciding to quit a full time job with the possibility of $100,000 raise to go into a business that was doing basically nothing at that time. All that was just crazy and completely countercultural to everything I had seen and everything that my family had seen. And then for them to see, wait. This kid trusted the Lord and he believed the Lord. He went on a fast for the first time in his life, thought he was going to die. And then he comes back with a word that basically says, stay the course. When there is no business, there's nothing to stay the Course on. And then a year later, it's a million dollar business. That moment changed everything, not only for me, for my wife, but also for my extended family. So that journey was really the biggest obstacle was going from I'm saved, but not really believing, to then stepping back into church and having a pastor tell me, hey, you thought one thing, but you're getting another, and then just tiptoeing back into faith and then just deciding one day, I don't know how to do anything else, but I'm just gonna. I think I can just talk to God like this. And just started talking to him in a car. And that interaction, that relationship changed everything for me.
Matt Edmundson [36:53 - 36:59]: That's super powerful, man. Super powerful. So that you said that's had an impact on your wife and your extended family?
Steven Pemberton [36:59 - 37:00]: Yep.
Matt Edmundson [37:00 - 37:06]: So does that mean your wife has quite a vibrant faith now as well?
Steven Pemberton [37:06 - 40:48]: Yes, absolutely. It's been. Everyone now has. It's actually so beautiful to watch my son because my wife has this strong faith. She still sits there, especially when in the middle of the business. I thought it was so beautiful when we were making $100,000 a month or so and she would just come to me. But hey, I feel like the Lord is telling me to give $5,000 away. It's like, okay, cool. And she was actually the one who received the word for us to literally kill a million dollar business. She was the one who received it, and I've always been the one ever since I decided to fully give my life to the Lord four years ago. Is what I would like to say is anytime that she just has a inkling she thinks that God is saying something, I fully support it. It's like, I'm like, okay, let's do it. You feel like we need to turn off a million dollar business. That means he's got something greater. Like, let's just do it. Because for me, if I haven't had anyone that's done the same thing for me, so if I can help build her faith, I do the same thing with my son. If he's like, hey, I think that the Lord's saying to do this, like, great, do it. There's. Even if I know that that's probably him, I don't. I will lean into it because I want him to trust. It's like, okay, I'm hearing the Lord, maybe I can lean in and start learning a little bit more. Maybe he's saying something else. So to watch their journey and then to watch my mom's journey and my dad's journey, because My dad, he never told me they loved me growing up. He never told me he was proud of me. And I remember right before we moved here because we, the whole journey lived in Texas, moved to Tennessee, and then we ended up in Tulsa. But right before we moved here to Tulsa, we spent some time together as a. As an entire family. We went up to my grandmother's house, which he had 33 acres of land at the time. And we spent time where they just shot these rockets off, these little model rockets. And we're riding back with my family to go home, and my dad just turns to me and he says, son, I'm really proud of you. He said, because you're, you're trusting the Lord. And he said, that's wish I wish I would have done something like that at your age. And that, that just floored me because he never said anything like that. So now the relationship that my dad and I have, for him to come here and I can hug him because he never hugged me as a kid, I can tell him I love him. He tells me he loves me, and he tells me he's proud of me to sit there and be able to love my mom and just to watch and hear the journey that God's taking them on. And they acknowledge God because they never used to. They used to always think it was their own strength, their own ideas, their own everything. So to watch that journey, to watch my wife with her journey being stepping out of business. Now she was in business, she was stay at home business owner for the last six years. She felt like the Lord was telling her to go into an internship. So she did, and I fully supported it. It's like, okay, it was you and I running this business you felt led into an internship. I'm always going to say yes. So she steps fully into that. And it's just been so beautiful to watch her blossom there. And then my son will sit there and just randomly quote a scripture and we'll be talking about the Bible and he'll say, oh, yeah, it's right here in this chapter. It's like, how do you even know that? So to watch him and just to hear his wisdom and how the Lord speaks through him, how to see that from all the people closest to me, how one decision to trust the Lord can change. We hear about this all the time. It's like, you can be. You can change generations, but we always think about that generationally changing generations below us. But one decision can change every generation. So when I think about that, the generations that are still alive who can see my life, who can see what I say, who can actually walk this journey with me. They can know that God is real for me. God is real in my life. He's real in the actions, he's real in my thoughts. He's real for them, too. And to watch my mom and dad change, to watch my relationship with my wife change, my relationship with my son changed. It has changed generations up and down.
Matt Edmundson [40:48 - 41:22]: That's awesome. I mean, it really is. Just listening to your story, it's a great story of redemption and how things have turned around. And, Steven, I'm aware of time, but I'm also aware that you mentioned something earlier which I think may well hit a few nerves with a few people listening. Your wife cheated on you, but you stayed together, you've worked through it, and for the last four years, you've been happily married, which. Cos the last four years you've sort of come back to the Lord. There may be no coincidence there. How did you guys survive that?
Steven Pemberton [41:23 - 43:20]: That's. I mean, that was the grace of God before I knew that there was a grace of God, honestly. Because what I found, especially during that time there. So right when it happened, when everything came out and I found out about it, I was done. And I remember getting in the truck and I had this big truck at the time, and I mean, big truck. A lot of people call it normal trucks. Big truck. Mine was big, like basically a monster truck. So I get in this truck and she comes running out of the house and she's standing in front of this truck and I was just going to back up and just go around her, because I'm in this field, right? And this was a moment that there was a voice inside my head, which I look back and I say, that was the Holy Spirit. There was a voice inside my head because my wife is standing in front of the truck and she's crying and begging me to not go. I've already loaded our son in the truck. I'm gone. I'm taking him with me. She's done. And I've heard this voice say, you need her. And I sit there and I said, in this moment, it actually makes me emotional. Seeing her is. I go, I need her. And for the first time in my life, I acknowledge I needed somebody besides myself. And that's when I got out of the truck and I said, hey, I'll give you your two years. Because she asked me for two years, which is just an insane ask. Like, you want me to stay two more years after what you just did. But I said, I'll give you your two years and I'll. And I'll make you this promise. If this happens again, I'm gone. It's like, but I'll give you two years. And it's been the best decision I've ever made because people will look at a situation like that and say, how could you stay? How could you work through that? But that's what I needed. Like, I needed that pain. I needed that to be able to become the person I am today. I needed. I mean, I wish it could have been a different way, but I've always been a little bit hard headed. So that happening, this is something I haven't ever shared. But being. Because I remember I was like, hey, I want to meet the guy. So I go and I meet up with the guy. And I'm. I'm 22 years old at the time.
Matt Edmundson [43:20 - 43:20]: Wow.
Steven Pemberton [43:20 - 44:54]: And 22, 23. And I was like, I'm gonna fight this guy. You know, I'm jacked up. I've got, I'm fighting. He shows up and I just remember this peace that came over me. And I just sit there and I tell him everything that he's done to me and my family and everything he's done to his family because his wife was with him. And I said, I said, I said, this is on you. It's like the way that you're leading your family, what ends up happening now, that's on you. And I left. And I remember he texted me and he said, I just wish you would have hit me in the face because what you said to me was so much worse. And what I found to be fascinating through this whole time was it developed me into someone who could actually love my wife and love her in the way that she felt loved. And we've been able to love our son in the way that he feels loved. And being able to experience this and walk through this has allowed us to help other marriages. They're walking through similar things. So do I've had this question asked before. If going back, could you change it? If you could change it, would you? I wouldn't. I'd walk through that pain all over again. Because it gave me something that I could not pay for. It gave me something that I could not gain without the pain. So was it hard? Yes. Was it worth it? Absolutely. Because of the life that I have now. The wife, the relationship, the way that our son has been able to see what a loving marriage looks like. He gets to see something different than I ever had. And it's all due to that pain, this pivotal moment where the Holy Spirit just said, hey, you need her. And I decided, you know what? You're right, I do need her. And deciding to need someone else besides myself changed everything for me.
Matt Edmundson [44:54 - 46:09]: Wow. What a brave choice. And it's amazing how many people you speak to that have, they've got something of value, they've got something of worth, but that's usually come. There's been a cost beforehand, there's been something you have to walk through. There's been a fire, there's been a trial, there's been the Red Sea, do you know what I mean? Or whatever it is, you have to go through something. And as we. And I find there tends to be different types of people that in the face of great adversity, they either crumble and be, you know, and don't rise to it, or they rise to it and actually they learn from it and something beautiful comes from it. You know, the Phoenix rising from the ashes, a great example. And I think it's probably one of the stories we learn from the New Testament that Jesus death, whilst being horrific, was actually the beginning of something the world really needed. Do you know what I mean? And it transformed history. And out of the crucifixion came the resurrection. And I find that so often true in life, you know, that we go through these things, but out of it, God can redeem it and do some. Something quite miraculous, which you guys have discovered, which is amazing.
Steven Pemberton [46:09 - 47:51]: Yeah. Something that I wanted to say, even on that note, is we hear about the. So if you're a Christian and you've gone through the Bible, there's a story of the Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. And everyone talks about them getting thrown into the fire and the Lord saving them. But what's interesting is right before they get thrown into this fire by King Nebuchadnezzar, is they said, our God will save us, but even if he doesn't, we're not going to bow down to you. And what I found, and this has always been my thought after reading that, especially recently, is they get thrown into the fire with a thought that he's going to save us, but just in case he doesn't, we're good. We trust the Lord, we're going to go to heaven, but they walk out on the other side knowing that their God is with them. So for me, I needed to sit there and say, you know what? I'm going to stay. I need these hard times. You can throw me in the fire. And I trust that I'll come out the other side. And now, on the other side, I know that there is a God. I know that he is with me. I know that he is for me. And he shows up in the middle of the fire. It doesn't say that there was a fourth man outside the fire and praying over them. There was a fourth man in the fire. And that has been the biggest impact that has had on my life, is when I read the Bible and I see all these biblical heroes, Jesus included, all the miracles he worked the new church in Acts and all the miracles that they're doing. It's like, man, those disciples, they knew that God was with them. They had seen it. They had seen miracles, they had done miracles. They had had power and authority given to them. So now, because of all the things I've walked through, I know that God is with me, no matter the result. So I'm willing to walk through whatever fire comes my way because I know there's a greater purpose coming out of me. There's things getting burned out of me or a greater purpose walking with me. So that's what I love about that story.
Matt Edmundson [47:51 - 48:04]: Yeah, it's very, very poignant, Steven. Very poignant. And I. And very true. And so many people, there's a fiery furnace in front of them. They're like, God, why would you let this happen?
Steven Pemberton [48:04 - 48:05]: Yeah.
Matt Edmundson [48:05 - 48:27]: And it's. It's indicative slightly of the sort of the culture in which we live, you know, the sort of the entitled culture which has sort of spurred into this victimhood culture, which is probably in the natural progression of it, that, you know, God loves me, therefore everything's going to be all right, and all sunshine and rainbows and. It's not quite how I read the New Testament.
Steven Pemberton [48:27 - 48:27]: No.
Matt Edmundson [48:28 - 48:58]: And so, you know, it is fascinating, isn't it? I mean, the walk with Christ is never easy, but it is a heck of an adventure. And what we learned from you today, Steven, is actually God can redeem anything, and that he's not done with us at any phase. And he can turn an angry kid that's been hurt by the church and disappointed by Christians into a wonderful dad, a wonderful husband, a wonderful man, and knows how to make a few dollars on the way, Right?
Steven Pemberton [48:58 - 50:16]: Yep. And even on top of that is now going from someone who was isolated and wanted to be alone to now. We had. We ended up transitioning away. We're still in this small group, but we were leading it. We had one of the biggest small groups in the church that we're in. We had 40 something members in less than a year and now we transitioned leadership just because of my wife stepping into the internship. But now I value community. Now I show up for people the way that I wish people would have showed up for me at that time. We have people around us that they pour into me. They keep me going in the right direction. So I've evolved from a person who wanted no one to a person who loves people and truly loves them and wants to give without expectation of receiving anything back. Whether that's my time in serving, whether that is financially, whether that is just spending time with the people that I love most. I have become someone who truly values community because that's where God does his best work. Can he work miracles without the use of people? Absolutely. But I believe that he loves to partner with people, to do those things, to show the power of community. If there was one person that ever walked this earth who never needed it, it was Jesus. And yet he still had community around him up until his last moments. So if that is the model that I want to live, then that means I have to follow in those footsteps and decide to have community as well.
Matt Edmundson [50:16 - 50:27]: Fantastic. Fantastic, Steven. Thank you for sharing with us, bud. Really appreciate it. If people have questions for you, if they want to reach out, connect, what's the best way to do that?
Steven Pemberton [50:27 - 50:45]: LinkedIn. So Steven Pemberton on LinkedIn. That is by far the easiest way. I get all those notifications to my phone. Also you can go to elevate them digital. That's you can book a call directly with me there. But if you just want to chat and do it all through chat, then LinkedIn is the best place to do it.
Matt Edmundson [50:45 - 51:11]: Fantastic. We will of course put those links in the show notes as well. But Steven, thank you brother, for coming on and sharing the story. It's been absolutely fascinating, super inspiring, super encouraging, and just really grateful for the good things that God's doing in your life, man. And may he continue to bless you, your family, and do all those amazing things. And I look forward to hearing the impact stories that you guys have as a result. You know, thank you.
Steven Pemberton [51:11 - 51:12]: I really appreciate it.
Sadaf Beynon [51:12 - 52:15]: And just like that, we've reached the end of another fascinating conversation. Crowd Church is a digital church, a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow. To find out more, check out www.crowd.church and don't forget to subscribe to what's the story on your favorite podcast app. We've got a whole lot of inspiring stories coming your way, and we really don't want you to miss any of them. What's the Story is the production of Crowd Church. Our fantastic team is made up of Anna Kettle, Matt Edmundson, Tanya Hutzilak, and myself, Sadaf Banan. We work behind the scenes to bring these stories to life. Our theme song is the creative work of Josh Edmundson. If you're interested in the transcript or show notes, head over to our website, Whatsastorypodcast.com and sign up for our weekly newsletters to get all this goodness delivered straight to your inbox. So that's all from us this week. Thank you so much for joining us and we'll catch you in the next episode. Bye for now.