#36 Biblical Insights into Exercise & Sleep (Body Wholeness Part 3)

20 Jul

YouTube Video of the Church Service

Exercise that is Worship

Have you ever felt judged when someone mentions exercise? Or are you the person who's tried every sleep hack going, but still finds yourself staring at the ceiling at 3 am?

This week at Crowd Church, Mike Harris (former Professional Footballer turned PE teacher turned gardener) shared something that might just change how you think about exercise and sleep. Rather than seeing them as more things to fail at, what if they're gifts from God? And what if the reason we struggle with them has less to do with technique and more to do with our heart?

The Real Issue: Value vs Worship

Culture tells us to exercise to become more valuable. Get thin, get massive, improve yourself - it's all about earning your worth through what you do with your body.

But Mike shared this powerful verse from 1 Corinthians 6:19-20:

"Don't you realise that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself. For God bought you with a high price, so you must honour God with your body."

Did you catch that? You were bought with a high price—past tense. Your value has already been established - it's infinite.

You're Already Priceless

This biblical perspective completely reverses the current cultural approach:

Culture says: Exercise to increase your value
God says: You're already infinitely valuable, so honour the gift

Mike put it brilliantly: "You are of infinite value. That price on you is infinite. Therefore, we should look after our body. And that changes everything."

Think about it - when you give someone a gift, what do you want? You want them to enjoy it, to use it, to delight in it. That's what God wants with the gift of your body.

Exercise as Worship

So what does this look like practically? Mike shared six quick tips for exercising well:

Make it fun - if you hate it, you won't stick with it
Set realistic goals - success motivates change
Include some weight training - it boosts your metabolism even at rest
Try skipping - great for balance and coordination
Fit it into your life - especially if you're a parent
Pray about it - this one transforms everything

That last one is the critical point. Mike suggested praying something like:

"Heavenly Father, I thank you that you have given me this gift. I honour you today by doing my best to steward this gift. I exercise in faith that you gave me this gift, and I do it to honour you."

Suddenly, your morning walk or gym session becomes an act of worship.

Conversation Street

"What if we stopped asking 'How can I get this perfect body?' and started asking 'How can this body serve God's kingdom today?'"

This question from our online community perfectly captures the shift Mike was talking about. It's not about achieving some Instagram-worthy physique - it's about stewarding what we've been given for God's purposes.

The Discipline of Movement

Dave Connolly shared how he bought a dog during lockdown to help him stay mobile after health issues. "It's about the discipline," he said. "There's a discipline in saying, 'I'm actually gonna walk to the shop.'"

Sometimes the most spiritual thing we can do is the most practical - just move our bodies.

The Sleep Struggle

When it comes to sleep, Mike's wife, Deb's, story resonated with many. She'd lie awake, getting increasingly frustrated with her brain that wouldn't switch off, even wanting to "bash her head just to try and get her brain to calm down."

Then God showed her a picture of the stars and the universe, saying: "I created your complex creative brain and it is a beautiful, wonderful thing. And yes, at this moment it is causing you some discomfort, but I will look after you tomorrow."

Instead of condemning herself for not sleeping, she began thanking God for her creative brain. That shift from self-criticism to gratitude changed everything.

Finding Peace in Vulnerability

Mike pointed out that in biblical times, sleep made you incredibly vulnerable. David, constantly at war and being chased, had to trust God completely to protect him while he slept.

That's why Psalm 4:8 hits so powerfully:

"In peace I will lie down and sleep, for you alone, Lord, will keep me safe."

The real issue isn't sleep techniques - it's trust. Trusting God enough to be vulnerable.

Your Next Step This Week

Here are practical ways to apply this:

Change your exercise why - Before your next walk or workout, pray and dedicate it to God as an act of worship
Practice gratitude at night - If you can't sleep, get up and thank God for specific things rather than scrolling through your phone.
Write down your worries - Matt shared how he'd write his debts on paper and physically hand them to God in prayer.
See rest differently - Even if you're awake, you can still rest in God's presence through prayer or listening to scripture.
Trust in vulnerability - Remember that the Prince of Peace has already defeated your greatest fear: death itself.

It's All Gift

Mike shared a powerful illustration from the film Chariots of Fire, in which Eric Liddell says he felt God's pleasure when he ran. That's available to everyone. Whether we're walking the dog, practising yoga, or lifting weights, we can experience God's pleasure in using the gifts He has given us.

The same goes for sleep. It's not about achieving some perfect eight hours. It's about trusting the God who never sleeps to watch over us when we're at our most vulnerable.

A Question Worth Asking

What would change if you genuinely believed your body was a gift from God, already infinitely valuable, given to you to enjoy and use for his glory?

Exercise could stop being the thing you fail at every January. Sleep could stop being that nightly battle. Maybe both would become what they were always meant to be - gifts from a God who loves you exactly as you are, and opportunities to worship him with everything you've got.

Because here's the truth Mike left us with: "You are valuable... When you get a revelation of that, which is our prayer, that you will gain a revelation of how valuable you are in God's sight. That changes how you live and that changes how you sleep."

Join us at Crowd Church as we continue exploring what wholeness looks like in real life. Next week: Dan Orange tackles nutrition.

Biblical Insights on Exercise and Sleep (Body Wholeness Part 3)
Matt Edmundson: [00:00:00] good evening. Welcome to Crowd Church, just given the thumbs up there to the tech team. Uh, it's great to be with you. Great that you can join us online. My name's Matt, if you don't know us. Uh, Crowd is an online church, just an online space where we talk. About Christ, the amazingness of Jesus, and what it means for us today in the modern culture.
Um, so whether you've been to church before, whether you haven't been to church before, maybe you're just exploring. You are so welcome here. It's great to be with you, and we pray for you. We pray you have a good time with us tonight. And, um, if you are online. Do say hi in the comments. Um, it'd be great to see you in there.
I'm gonna be in there at some point. Um, so it'd be great to see you in the comments. Any questions? Any thoughts? Any, anything you wanna know? Unless it's the lottery numbers. 'cause I feel like, I dunno what they are. You can whack in. I mean, you can ask that question in the comments. I'm just not gonna answer it.
Um, 'cause if I did know them, I dunno if I'd tell you. I'm not gonna lie. Uh, but uh, yeah, join in the comments, say hi. Let us know where you're watching from. Uh, it'd be great [00:01:00] to connect with you in there. But today I am joined by this beautiful chap next to me. Uh, Mr. Dave Cony. Dave, how we doing? Doing good.
Matt. I've told you
Dave Connolly: not to call
Matt Edmundson: me. Beautiful.
Dave Connolly: But there you go. What would you like me to call you? Say?
Matt Edmundson: Only kidding. So we have Sir Dave Conley sitting next to us tonight. Love that. Uh, so yeah, it's great. Uh, Dave and I are hosting in tonight. Um, and again, if you're new to crowds, uh, after the talk, which is gonna be done by the amazing Mike Carris tonight, uh, we have something called Conversation Street, where you can join us.
Um, and just, yeah. Ask you questions away. So, um, but let's get Mike on camera. Let's not go to the speech. To she. Let's introduce Mike. This is Mike. Evening. Evening. Are you happy? Are you not hot in that jumper, man?
Mike Harris: No, it's, it's a knitted one, so it, it looks warm, but it's actually not very good to keeping you warm.
It's good jumping away, right? [00:02:00] Yeah, I'm alright.
Matt Edmundson: Fair play. So it's great that Mike's joined us. Mike is going to be talking, uh, to us tonight. Well, I'm not gonna steal your thunder. Actually, I'll let you, are you gonna introduce what you're talking about tonight? I'm, yes. Excellent. I, let me not repeat it. So without further ado.
Let's get Mike on. Mike's gonna do the talk. Like I say, Dave and I and Mike will be back after his Talk four Conversation Street, uh, which I'm really looking forward to on this whole topic because Mike is gonna be talking on dun, dun, dun dun dun. Roll vt Dan.
That's very good.
Mike Harris: Is that your great Well, um, it is an absolute honor, uh, to be here. For those of you who don't know me, I'm Mike. Um, and I have the. Privilege and the honor of talking to you today about exercise and sleep. This is part of a whole series on wholeness and [00:03:00] there are lots of talks that you can access.
Brilliant ones, ones about Sabbath, about the body, uh, one coming up about food. Um, and so yeah, today I'm going to be talking about exercise and sleep. Um, just a little bit about my background. Um, I was a PE teacher for 15 years. And about a year ago I left as head of peer, a big Catholic comprehensive. Um, and I'm now a full-time gardener, so I've done a little bit of teaching on exercise and on sleep.
So I'm going to be able to offer a little bit of worldly wisdom, but, but we are here today to hear about what the. Bible says as well, and that's what we're gonna be looking at. What does the Bible say about exercise? What does it say about sleep? And how might that be different? Um, and so that's what we're gonna look at.
To begin with though, I just wanted to, to stay, think it's really important that for many people for. Exercise and sleep. Just the thought of them conjuress up emotions that are [00:04:00] potentially very negative. I know a lot of people when they hear about exercise probably feel quite condemned, quite judged. Um, they.
Don't like it. They've tried it and it hasn't worked. They feel very disappointed by it. And the same with sleep. You know, I know of people who do all the right things, have the right routines and everything, but sleep is just something that they really, really struggle with. And I just want to say that they are both very real.
Um, they are both experiences that, that have a big impact on people's lives. And my hope today is not that. I'm just going to help you to cure all of that in, in one talk, but that you will be encouraged and hear something of God's heart for you as a precious created individual who is loved and cherished by God and that he's with you.
Um, and, and yeah, that's what I'm hoping, um, from this. So we're gonna [00:05:00] start by looking at exercise and thinking about, um, what does the world say? Well, I would say that the world says about exercise. The exercise is there, um, to get, to get us thin, to get us massive, um, to improve our mental health. Um, all of these things are about, about self-improvement, about trying to make ourselves better.
Um, and part of that is true, you know, the, what the world want to say has, has some. Truth behind it, and even some wisdom, you know, today. Um, we have a big obesity problem in this country. Um, and physical activity can go some way to helping relieve that and to take, you know, if we could make this country more active, um, then that would have a positive impact on obesity and that would, you know, reduce pressure on the NHS and things like that.
So there's, there is some wisdom in that. Um. Also with mental health, I [00:06:00] know, um, from being a teacher for 15 years, that there is a big increase in the amount, especially of young people suffering with their mental health and physical activity can have a big impact on that. Um, when we're active, it releases endorphins into our bloodstream.
And when you are stressed and when you're anxious, your body releases cortisol and adrenaline to your bloodstream. So when we're active. The endorphins help to counteract the cortisol and, and help to reduce our blood pressure and take pressure off our organs. So, so there's some wisdom in that. Um, but it's not the whole story.
It's not the whole story. In fact, I think it's partly telling us the end story, but actually there's a message that we need to hear before that, um, which I think God wants to tell us about, um, which we'll get to in a minute. Um, however, I have. Experience of exercise, and I have taught on it for a while, and so I just want to give you six [00:07:00] quick points as to what you could do to exercise well.
Okay. So the first one is, I think exercise should be fun. Um, if it's not fun, you're not gonna keep doing it. It's not gonna have the impact that you hope it needs to be part of your daily routine or your weekly rhythm. And so if you are a. Parents and you've got young children, then trying to exercise and be active is maybe something you need to discuss as a family and prioritize and make room for, um, but it needs to fit in also setting your goals.
I know as a teacher, in order to elicit change, the, the biggest motivating factor is success. So it's important that you think about. Making realistic goals. Um, and I would say personally that it's better to think about how you feel in your clothes rather than looking at the scales. Um, I think that would, that, that is a better goal.
Um, also a little bit of weight training. Um, weight training. [00:08:00] I, I, I could talk for hours and hours and hours about the benefits of it. Just, just a little bit of weight training, um, in your exercise is really good. It helps. Increase what is called your basal metabolic rate, which is the speed of which you burn calories while you are at rest, that will have a much bigger impact long term on your ability to maintain a, a good metabolism.
Um, so try and include a little bit of that if you can. Skipping if you don't do any exercise at all. Skipping is a good way into exercise. It's quite good. It's good for balance, it's good for coordination. Um, and, and they're really important. And then point number six, I'm gonna come back to, um, in a minute.
But that is all worldly wisdom, and we wanna have a look at what the Bible says. And so for this, I'm going to read a passage, which is in one Corinthians, chapter six. Um, Matt, when he talked about the body, mentioned this passage, and I just wanna talk about it again. [00:09:00] Um, so one Corinthians was a letter that Paul wrote to the church in Corinth, which he set up.
He knew these people really well. They knew him really well. Um, and he had left Corinth and gone to set up some churches elsewhere. And he received a report about issues that the church in Corinth for having. And so he wrote this letter in order to try and address five problems that the church were having and.
One of those problems is about sexual immorality, and that's where we find these verses that I'm gonna read out. It's in that section where Paul is addressing, um, the issue of sexual immorality. And as I read it, I just want you to think about the value that God places on your body, okay? As we read through this, so I will read, I'm gonna go from verse 15 and it says this.
Don't you realize that your bodies are actually parts of Christ? Should a man take his body, [00:10:00] which is part of Christ and join it to a prostitute? Never. And don't you realize that if a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with hair for the scriptures Say the two are united into one, but the person who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him.
Run from sexual sin. No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does for sexual immorality is a sin against your body. Don't you realize that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who lives in you and was given to you by God. You do not belong to yourself. For God bought you with a high price, so you must honor God with your body.
I'm just gonna read the final verse, verse 20 again. It says this, for God bought to you past tense with a high price, so you must honor God with your [00:11:00] body. You see, what I believe is that the world would say you should exercise. In order to become more desirable, and as you become more desirable, you will become more valuable.
Whilst what the Bible says is completely the other way round what the Bible says, we could see in this face you were bought with a price. You are of infinite value, so, or therefore you, you must honor God with your body in the. Eyewitness account of John. It says this. It says, for God so loved the world, he desired you.
He loved you, and he desired you. That he gave his one and only son, he gave his one and only son. You are of infinite value. That price on you is infinite. Therefore, we should look after our body. And that changes everything. That [00:12:00] changes everything. It changes our attitude to exercise. And actually we can then.
Exercise as worship. You see, if you accept that the body that you have been given was a gift from God and that that body is joined to Christ as we've just read, then you can exercise differently. You can exercise as worship because you can say you can pray, which is my point number six. Maybe not as you're exercising or maybe a few hours before or so, or that morning or something like that, but praying something like this.
Heavenly Father, I thank you that you have given me this gift. I honor you today by doing my best to steward this gift. I exercise in faith that you gave me this gift, and I do it to honor you. Then, then suddenly what you are doing, what you are doing in faith is worship. Um, and that that changes. That changes everything.[00:13:00]
So. That is exercise. You can exercise to increase your value if you want, but that'll never end. Or you can exercise out the value that Christ placed on you and you can do it as worship. Um, but we want to talk about sleep as well. 'cause sleep is also something that is really, really important. It's important for us, um, to be able to function really, really well.
Um, sleep is really important. We are going to spend a third of our lives asleep. So whether you believe in evolution or whether you believe, um, that God created us, then you can't. You have to accept that sleep is really, really important. Um, the world says we need seven to nine hours of it. Uh, sleep is made up of REM sleep where we.
Get our, our brain and emotions get a refresh and deep sleep where our body gets a good refresh. Um, there are lots and lots, I've done a little bit of research into strategies that the [00:14:00] world would suggest in order to help you to sleep. And some of them are really, really good, you know, real wisdom in it.
Um, I found one that, that one strategy that was ten three, two, one zero, I don't know if anybody's heard of it, but, um, so there's, there's lots and lots of strategies. We also know that anxiety and stress are something that have a big impact on the quality and the length of your sleep. Um, and I just, I just wanna tell you the story 'cause um, my wife Deb, um, sometimes has in the past has suffered with insomnia and I know.
Many people do. And so one night, um, I said to her, look, Deb, if you are struggling with insomnia, then just wake me up and, and I will pray for you. I, I am one of those annoying people who could sleep anywhere at any time on, in any level of comfort. And it must be so frustrating for, for, for my wife who, who was [00:15:00] really struggling.
So I said, look, wake me up and up right here. So this night she's been struggling. She wakes me up. In the middle of the night, I sit bolt, upright, put my arm round her, um, and I, and I start to pray. Heavenly Father, at this point though, I was in this sort of semi-state of sleep and being awake and my dreams just.
Started to come back to the front of my head. And so I said, heavenly father, I pray that Deb will learn to fold the paper in the right direction. And Deb looks at me and she's like, what are you talking about? And I, I don't know what I was dreaming about some, some orga competition or something like that, but I dunno.
But it just came right to the front of my mind and started praying this for them. Um. And so, you know, that actually didn't work very well, but Deb, um, did talk to me about some of the strategies that she used, which I just thought were really, really good. And so she was saying. [00:16:00] There was one night and she was in bed and, and she couldn't sleep.
And she was just so frustrated. So frustrated and getting really down on herself. She was, um, just becoming really angry with herself that she couldn't calm her brain down, even to the point where she was like wanting to bash her head just to try and get her brain to, to. Just calm down and stop going over and over things.
And in that moment, she just felt like God said to her, you need to stop talking negatively about yourself. Yeah. And she, God showed her this picture of the stars and the sky and the universe and the intricacy of this thing that he had created and the whole complexity of it and what. My, what Deb believed that God was saying to her was, look, [00:17:00] I created your complex creative brain and it is a beautiful, wonderful thing.
And yes, at this moment it is, it is causing you some, some discomfort, but. I will look after you tomorrow. I will guide and help you through tomorrow. And what that did was it enabled Deb to then be able to pray more positively and say, God, I thank you for the brain that you have given me. I thank you that it is complex, it is unique.
And that started to help her to calm down. And you know, it's not a a one trick. Will help you to go to sleep. This is a, a long process. Um, but talking positively about yourself, recognizing that you are a work of art and that God created you and he's with you and wants to be called upon, um, and wants to be, wants to [00:18:00] help.
Um, I think that's really important. You know, one of the things, uh, that, that really impacts our levels of stress and anxiety is, is this fear. Um, and one of the reasons why I think exercise has become so important and given such, um, such I importance over the past sort of 30, 40 years is partly because, uh, and I'm sorry I have to bring this up, but partly because of our fear of death.
You see, we've had so many advancements in technology, so many advancements in medicine, so many advancements in sleep and in, uh, psychology and exercise physiology. But the one thing we cannot escape is this fear of death and fear, fear of judgment. It, it doesn't matter what strategies we employ, it doesn't [00:19:00] matter what.
Wisdom we glean from sources outside of the Bible, however well you do it, we cannot escape these things and, and what we like to do is we just like to ignore them and try and push them away by trying to make ourselves as healthy as possible, just in order to try and put this issue that is always there just to the side,
but we can't, and. You know, it's really important to know that we can have rest without having peace, and we can sleep without having peace. But if we want to have peace, then we need to throw our lives on. Onto the Prince of Peace. Um, and this is what the Bible says. So this is, uh, a verse and taken from Psalm chapter four, um, which is a brilliant Psalm, but I just wanna read the final verse and it says this in [00:20:00] peace.
I will lie down and sleep for you alone. Lord will keep me safe. I'll just read that again in peace. I will lie down and sleep. For you alone, Lord will keep me safe. You see, if you aren't Christian, if you don't know Jesus, your Lord and Savior, then the only way that you can find peace, peace from that fear of death is to surrender to the one who faced death.
And went through it, and the Bible says that when he rose again, that death was swallowed up in victory. The prince of peace went to death on your behalf and defeated it so that you can walk with him through death into certain [00:21:00] victory. And not only that, when you walk through death into certain victory, you could stand before the creator of the universe with your sin and with your shame, and with your guilt, and he will look on you and see the sacrifice that Jesus has already made and you will not be punished.
You will be free. And you can experience that peace today that that knowledge that you, that Jesus has already paid the punishment for everything that you have done wrong and that he has defeated death. So you can, you do not have to fear death, and you do not have to fear judgment because he has done it all for you.
You see, as I round up. What I wanna tell you is, you know, just to recap, if you want to exercise, you can exercise in order to, to increase your value, but you will never, it, it will be ongoing or you can exercise in order to worship the creator of [00:22:00] your unique body. If you want to sleep, um, you can sleep.
With peace or without peace, but in order to find peace, you need to surrender to the Prince of peace, and that is my hope and that is my Prayer for you today.
Thank you.
Matt Edmundson: What a fantastic talk. Love that, Mike. Thanks, dude. That's all right. Thank you. We're gonna get into Conversation Street. I've got a whole bunch of questions. You've got a whole bunch of notes. Uh, if you've got a question and you're watching this live, then uh, do write it in the comments. Um, and we, I'm just gonna ask all the hard questions and try and avoid trying to answer them.
Because I have the power, I can answer them. Uh, yeah, I can answer them. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so hey, um, love this. What I, I think for me, the big takeaway in this conversation, Mike, was when you talked about the [00:23:00] dichotomy between exercise. Being to increase my value versus exercise being part of my worship. So what I didn't hear you say was exercise was wrong.
Um, exercise is a good thing. It's the reason behind, it's the why, isn't it? This is what we're doing. It's the why. So often in in life so many things that we're doing, what's the why behind it? And I, I love the way you put it, the difference between exercise being to increase value versus exercise to increase.
To, to worship God when, 'cause you're, you're a bit of an athletic man. Uh, you've, you've had a few, you've had a few stories. Um, when did you realize this?
Mike Harris: Um, it's a good question. I think it has been, I think one pivotal moment was probably. My sort of late twenties. I wish it had come earlier. Um, but in, in my sort of mid to late twenties [00:24:00] watching Chariot to fire, um, fantastic.
Um, you know, hearing how someone could run and when he ran, he felt the pleasure Yeah. Of God. And, and that had a really big impact on me because. You know, I have loved sports all my life. Yeah. Um, you know, since the, since I was born, I have really enjoyed sports and sport is, is something that has, has come, uh, naturally to me.
Um, and so, but I've, I've not often. It, it, it's not always been something that, that I have felt God's pleasure in or, or felt like he has gained pleasure for me doing the sport. I've, I've often been trying to ascertain to the next step and the next step and the next step, so, you know. I, I used to be a professional footballer, and so when I was doing that, it was constantly trying to get to the next [00:25:00] step.
It was only when I came away from that and I had the chance to exercise without any of that pressure and, and becoming a Christian. Yeah. Um, that I was able to exercise and think. More about, um, what God thinks about me. Yeah. And, and just enjoying it. Yeah. And, and getting a little glimpse of a sense of that pleasure because, you know, my body is a gift and a gift and abilities that he's given me are a gift.
Yeah. And when I give a gift, what I want is for that person to enjoy that gift. If they don't enjoy that gift, you know? Wow. What was the point? Yeah. And so. You know, when I am exercising now or being active and I am enjoying it, just for the, just for that, then, then. That's meaningful and that's, that's powerful.
I [00:26:00] think
Matt Edmundson: it is. It's a really profound way to think about it. I remember hearing the story of Rich Froning, who's, um, if you're into CrossFit, you'll know who he is. He is. Um, but if you're not, you probably won't. He's an athlete in CrossFit and he talked about the first time he almost won it and he sort of crashed out on a rope climb.
Um, and he thought his whole world had caved in. 'cause he didn't, he didn't quite win it. But at this point, he rediscovers. His faith in Christ. And he realized actually the whole motive, the whole why behind what he was doing was wrong. And that's when he got this sort of infamous tattoo here, um, from Galatians about, I can't remember the reference, but something about whom I boasting in.
And so whenever he cheered, you know, whenever he was like in victory, it always showed this tattoo about boasting in Christ. And he went on to become like one of the greatest CrossFit champions of all time. Do you know what I mean? And he, he kept winning. Um. Games after games after games, but it only came [00:27:00] after, and I'm not saying it's because of that, but it came after he made this adjustment in his thinking, which says, one, I'm trying to do this to win, to get the value, to be the champion.
The other is I'm doing this to glorify God and to to boast in him. And I think that's such a powerful split. Have you got any thoughts on this?
Dave Connolly: Yeah, yeah. Great points, Mike. I mean, the first thing I wrote down is, um. I'm really into culture and under, you know, um, what I heard you say, and I think you said it was, um, it was talking about that God loves us.
And cherishes us. And I think when we get some revelation, some understanding that God loves us and he cherishes us, we start to understand a little bit more all the things that he's given us. And again, you used the word, um, steward, and I think when you understand that God values you Yeah. [00:28:00] You, you steward differently.
Yeah. You know, you wanna look after yourself to what, whatever that means. To different people. And that changes as you get older. Yeah. Um, but it is about stewardship, you know, but I, I, for me, that really is really meaningful. You know, you know that God loves you and that he cherishes you and it changes how you see things, I think.
I think, yeah. Great.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Great. Uh, just hold your microphone close to your mouth next time.
I can see Dan twiddling the knobs. Sorry, Dan, what do you think then about this idea
of, um, I suppose a basic question, should Christians exercise yes or no? Because I think there's different schools of thought in this, isn't there? There's different arguments. [00:29:00] Um. So rather than maybe as it should, Christian exercise, maybe, is it good for a Christian to exercise? I think I know your answer, but I'm gonna ask it anyway.
I
Mike Harris: think it is. I think it is good to lead an active lifestyle and you know, I totally accept that for some people. You know, who have physical disabilities or, you know, things like that, that this is, this is very, very difficult. Um, I, you know, I snapped my Achilles tendon about a year ago, no, maybe about two years ago, and it just hampered my ability to move and I was just, it was.
Terrible. Yeah. You know, I, I absolutely hated it. Um, and so I think it is important for us to be active. Um, you know, we, we were created to move and I [00:30:00] would, yeah, I would encourage everybody to be as active as possible. Um, you, you may see that as exercise. Um. Staying active, I would say is, is is crucial, really important.
Staying
Matt Edmundson: active can be just walk. I mean, Jesus walked everywhere, didn't he? Absolutely. He did. He, he was, he was fairly active himself. Um, he was a carpenter. And I, I do a little bit of carpentry. You may, you may have guessed yes, as you can tell from my fingers, which I talked about a few weeks ago. Um, but I.
I, I have the, the glorious ability to use power tools or not yet. Um, uh, but I obviously they didn't have those back then. It was much more man. So he lived a very active life. I would've said Christ.
Dave Connolly: Yeah. Most people would've walked, I mean, there are numerous accounts. I've got 'em on my phone and you know, where we see about people walking and they were, you know, I mean, there weren't marathon walks, but you know, there [00:31:00] were.
Uh, half a mile, three miles, five miles, seven miles. You know, there's journeys, common journeys of 30 miles, but we don't, culture is different today, you know, and quite often, you know, we love to mock the Americans that they go everywhere in the car, you know. But I was with somebody just a few weeks ago and I said, I'm just nipping out to the corner shop.
And he picked up the keys and I'm like, what? You know? Um, and I know times change, but, you know, those type of walks are great. Um, I think during, during lockdown I'd had some health issues and, um, and I, I needed to stay mobile, so we bought a little dog and, um, I think everybody in the world, well in, in Britain bought a little dog or a dog during lockdown 'cause it was their.
Meaningful way to get some exercise. Yeah. Now it's not the same as going to the gym, um, but it it for me. [00:32:00] It's about the discipline, you know, the discipline, like, um, you know, of going to the gym regularly, you know, um, and you know, your dog needs to be walked regularly. And, um, and I know, I'm not trying to say that the same thing, you get the same workout.
I'm just saying there is a discipline required to do both them. But I think there's also a discipline in, in saying, I'm actually gonna walk to the shop Now. I'm fully aware that some people have health issues. And, and that's not that easy to do. But maybe we should be focusing a little bit more on what I can do, where we spend an awful lot of time telling people what we can't do.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah. No, I'd agree. Um, that focus on what you can do, I think is really important. And I think the thing about exercise, the thing about all of these spiritual disciplines, Prayer, reading, the Bible, um, whatever you want it to be, exercise, none of them. Are without [00:33:00] cost. That's right. Right. You, you've gotta count the cost, haven't you?
Absolutely. It's like, so if I, if I go to the gym or if I walk there, it's gonna take an extra 10 minutes, which means I don't get this 10 minutes to whatever, you know, browse Instagram or watch Netflix, or hang with the kids or whatever it is, you know, take the kids for a walk with you, by the way. Um, but I think there's, there's a cost to it that we, that we have to count and, and you can't escape that, right?
Absolutely. And,
Mike Harris: um. I think when you accept that God has given you a, a gift, which is your body, and you, you take responsibility for steward in that, then there is, it's the discipline, the discipline of saying, you know, I am, I'm going to look after this. I, I accept that everything that you have done for me, um, I've.
This is the gift that you have given me and I'm going to look after it to honor you. It just changes the motivation and [00:34:00] um, and yeah, you know, all of these things, there is a cost to them and there is a cost to exercise. Um, it's going to take up some of your time. It's going to take up effort. Um, but it doesn't mean that there is joy in it for you.
Dave Connolly: Yeah, but isn't that, that's the whole point, isn't it? That. If it's valuable, there has to be a cost to it. Yeah. It's not valuable if there's no cost, you know? Um. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: No, it's so true. So true. Let's talk about sleep. Lemme switch to sleep a little bit. Um, because I think sleep is actually, that is a, a bigger issue that often goes unaid.
And I remember, um, in lockdown when we would, when crowds sort of started, came outta lockdown, one of the, the most common question that people would email me. Or email into Crowd about which I, I got was how do I sleep? And I remember thinking about this and going, well, goodness me, it just, here's the Bible verse, go meditate on [00:35:00] that.
And it wasn't until I asked, I think about 30, by the time 30 or 40 of these emails had come in, I'm like, this is, I need to actually study this out because I, I didn't really fully understand sleep and I was the guy. Who was constantly looking at research going, how can I just sleep four hours a day? How can I sleep three hours a day because then I can maximize my time?
You know, I'm the hustle culture guy. Um, and it actually, when I read scripture, I was deeply challenged by my attitude to sleep because it is another one of these things, which is a gift from God. There was sleep, the first mention of the word sleep in the Bible. Yeah. God puts Adam into a deep sleep, right?
This is pre-fall, which if you're a Christian, means it's before sin. It means it's like when Paradise was around. So I kind of get the impression there's gonna be some kind of sleep in heaven. You know? It's like God's gift of res restoration and restoring the daily sleep, the weekly Sabbath, I mean the annual festivals.
Um. Yeah, but [00:36:00] I am very aware that I'm a bit like you, Mike. I can sleep anywhere. Not a problem. And the world knows I'm sleeping. 'cause I say apparently I make a noise. I, I make some delightful noises when I sleep. Um, but I appreciate that's not true for everybody. What's wrong with you? Good.
Yeah. Sorry. Maybe I should, um, I snore basically. Um, but. Not everyone sleeps well, right? No.
Dave Connolly: Well, my take, it's all about, you know, the, the whole context things, you know, um, one of the reasons, one of, and obviously there's medical reasons, but, you know, um, the thing if you work hard and to hard and society is different, you know, and you go out and, and you know, it's like, it's like people, you know, come on from work and say, I'm exhausted, I'm shattered, as if they're not supposed to be.
Well, we'll pose that [00:37:00] there is a consequence when you are burning energy. Yeah. That you will wanna rest, you will wanna sleep. And I think, you know, we, we forget a whole lot of that, but I think, you know, um, with sleep, I think that you used the word rest. I think it's, it's finding a rest, sorry. It's finding a rest, sleeps all about, um.
And finding res. But I think for people who don't sleep, like I have a horrendous insomnia and, um, I've read everything I think that can be read 'cause I'm awake and it's what you do. The worst thing you can do is, is stay in bed. So for me, I found what really, really, really useful for me is. We have no young children or you know, it's just me and you at home and the dog.
And I get up and I pray, and during lockdown I turn that from a real annoyance, you know, and a real frustration into something really, really, it's been really positive to me. Now, I don't find the next [00:38:00] day that I am tired. I can't explain that away. Um, but I do know that of those who rest in the Lord. You know, and I do mean praying.
I don't mean so, so unconscious praying, you know, um, some people like it. Um, but I think that, I, I think all, you know, the sleep thing, it. But there are so many people who deprived of sleep and it affects so many other parts of their life, their quality of life. They, they can't respond to things the way they want to.
They can't think the way they want to. They're irritable, not, that's always the down to a shortage of sleep, you know? Um, but there all constant, I think there are real consequences, but it's amazing how we are not concerned enough. You know, for when we hear about people and lots of people who stay up all night playing video games.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and they're like, I'm having problems sleeping. I'm like, that's 'cause you don't, you're on your video, you know? Well, [00:39:00] and I know they can sort of vindicate themselves on that, but I don't think they can.
Matt Edmundson: No, no. Um, go ahead.
Mike Harris: Well, I know, um, when I was looking into sleep, I was, one of the things that I was thinking about is the fact that, you know, back in sort of biblical times when David was writing this arm going to sleep made you incredibly vulnerable.
Yeah. You were at your most vulnerable when you were asleep. Mm-hmm. Um. You know, he was constantly at war, constantly being chased, constantly, um, you know, in battles. And so to go to sleep, he really had to trust God that while he was at his most vulnerable, that God would look after him. And, um, obviously, you know, since then, um, you know, he was only scared of death since then.
Jesus come and, and, um. [00:40:00] And things different. But you know, I do think there's something about that vulnerability. Um, I know, you know, I've spoke to people who, um, well, one of my brothers really, really struggled with sleep because he was constantly worried that people were gonna come in and be whole house.
Yeah. And it was to the point where. He would try and stop breathing so that he wouldn't make any noise. And um, interestingly, um, my mom took him to see John Birch and John Bch. Um, this was after a long time of him really, really struggling. And John Birch prayed for him and he transformed. Yeah, absolutely transformed.
And, um. Yeah. You know, it, it, I think one of the things with rest and sleep that links them is this trust in God, you know, to rest, to, to, to stop working and to rest. You've gotta trust that, that God will provide [00:41:00] enough. If I stop working, there will still be enough. And if I go to sleep and make myself vulnerable, I'm, I'm having to trust God that he will protect me.
He will look after me. Um, yeah,
Dave Connolly: and that's why it's important. Um. That we pray.
Mike Harris: Yeah.
Dave Connolly: You know, and you know, as we come to the end or or whenever it's for sleeping for most people at the end of the day, and that we really just pray and some of us are going to, to, to, to bed trouble. Yeah. You know, life's life and life can be tough, you know, and we go to bed trouble and we, we really need to know what it is to commit that to God.
Um, because, you know. Most people have experienced open, become wide away in the middle of the night. They feel alone. They feel, um, really isolated. They feel really vulnerable. They feel scared, and it, they can't rationalize it because it isn't a rational thing. It's a spiritual thing. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. No, it, it's, [00:42:00] um, it's so true, isn't it? I, I remember when, um, I, early on in, um. In my married life, we had, we had quite significant debts that I bought into the marriage. Have to be honest, not my wife. Um, and I, they would keep me up at night.
Yeah,
Matt Edmundson: right. Debt will keep you up at night. Absolutely. And, and, and I, and the thing I figured out quite quickly was.
When you are trying to fall asleep, your mind races in a thousand directions at once, but doesn't settle on a single one of them. And they're all very vague thoughts, and they're all very dramatic thoughts like, are you gonna lose the house or are you gonna lose? But there's no con So what I, what I did was, I, before I, I went to bed is I wrote everything down on a, on a back of a piece of a wallpaper, put it on the bedroom door.
And so when I was awake in the middle of the night. Before I went to bed, I could just look at that. I could go down those numbers and look at what it actually said, rather than what my brain was hypothesizing. Just put my hands on the paper. Lord, I commit this all to you. [00:43:00] And sure enough, you know, that anxiety would lift and I would be able to sleep.
And I think if I did wake up worrying about it again, I'll just put my hands on it and I could see, okay, this is the situation, this is the problem. God, I, I give this over to you. Um. But there's something quite powerful, like you say, about praying and about Prayer. So when you can't sleep, if you're a Christian getting up and playing video games, I don't, I'm not convinced is the right thing to do.
You know? I think that just releases more adrenaline, doesn't, it? Keeps you awake. You may as well have a cup of coffee and a donut at the same time. You know, just get that in your system. Sugar and caffeine. But I. I do think if sleep is meant for rest and restoration, which is what I think from the Bible, if I'm not asleep, I can still get rest and restoration.
Right. And that comes from Prayer like you're talking about, Ellis has put here in the comments about he listens to the Bible on YouTube. Yes. Do I mean, and I, I think. [00:44:00] That's how you get rest and restoration. So rather than looking at sleepers, I've gotta get this magic number, otherwise my life sucks. Um, looking at it as an opportunity to rest.
And if I'm awake, still resting in the Lord,
Dave Connolly: I, I think it's actually rest I would, I I, sorry, I didn't hear, you said that was who listens to scripture? I think it's a wonderful way, absolutely brilliant way of just, um. Soaking in the word of God and that that actually is filling your thoughts. And, and yes, you know, you get off the next day and you've still got a red bill, you know, it's still there, but we're just prioritizing, you know, um, what we're allowing to rest in our, in our thinking, you know?
And if you wake up in, in, in, in the night worried, you know, if you know the Lord Jesus as your savior and you wake up in the night worried, you know? I want to encourage you, get out of bed without waking everybody else house. Find somewhere and just start to say, God, [00:45:00] you know, all the things that are happening in my life.
But I want to thank you that you are with me. I want to thank you for your provision. I want thank you for your goodness. I want to thank you for my salvation. I want to thank you for my wife. I wanna thank you for my kids. And you know, Thanksgiving changes our outlook. It really does. So I would encourage you to do that.
Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: I remember, um, the one thing I'd also say in this is when you're awake in the night, God sees that, right? I remember a few years ago I was speaking at a church, not this church, a different church. I was guest speaker. Um, and I went to their church and I remember I was asleep the night before and God woke me at five o'clock in the morning.
There was like a really specific time, like 5 22 or something like that. I can't remember the exact time now. It was a few years ago. But I remember being about five o'clock in the morning and I remember looking at the alarm clock going, this is a, God doesn't normally wake me up in the middle of the [00:46:00] night.
Um, but I remember really clearly a vivid dream that I was having at this point. Right? And this is one of the ways that God speaks to us, right? It's in dreams and guess when we dream, we dream when we sleep, I just, you know, it's an obvious. Connection. Um, and I had this vivid dream, and I remember it because I don't normally dream this vividly, right?
Origami paper, paper folding, maybe. I dunno. Um, but I, I remember in the dream seeing a. Um, a bathtub and a woman in the bath leaning over the edge, so it was all clean, um, but she was leaning over the edge, but she was crying and the tears were coming down her face onto the edge of the bath. And the tears on the edge of the bath that I saw were pure gold.
And I just remember this really vivid dream and the next day when I was speaking in the church, I'm like, I just felt God say you need to share the dream. And so I shared this dream about the woman leaning over in the bath tears, and I shared the time that I had it, and a woman came to me [00:47:00] after that service and she said.
I'm the woman in the dream. Yes, I was in the bath this morning at that exact time, leaning over the bath, crying, going, thinking that God doesn't see me or doesn't hear what's going on. And I think that might not happen to you. That might not happen all the time, but the principle is still the same that God.
Sees all the tears and the anguish in the middle of the night. He sees the pain, he sees the heartache. It might not end that instance, but I think God is with you. Um, and I got, I mean, I got really blessed by that 'cause I just thought maybe I was having a weird dream, but, um, turned out God wanted to give this message to somebody.
Mike Harris: Yeah,
Matt Edmundson: fantastic. And I think, you know.
Mike Harris: It's just one of the prayers that you can pray as you are going to sleep or, or not even as you're going to sleep, but, but just asking God to speak to you and to use your sleep in a way, um, to, you know, to, to speak to you. When you [00:48:00] are asleep you are. Relax, you are vulnerable.
Um, and you know, just praying to God and saying, God, come and speak to me. Come and use my sleep. Speak to me. Tell me, um, what you think about me. Come and show me some secrets. Come and, you know, reveal yourself to me. Uh, be further. Um, I think can be, you know. Enlightening and, and really powerful. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: That's great. Brilliant. Um, uh, a question, um, and we'll, we'll close in just a sec, but a, a question, what if we stopped asking, how can I get this perfect body and started asking, how can this body serve God's kingdom today? What would that change? That's a good question.
Dave Connolly: That is an amazing question.
Mm-hmm.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Just let it sit. It's, it's, it's,
Dave Connolly: it, I think, I think it answers itself. I mean, it should provoke us Yeah. To be [00:49:00] asking that. So again, you over sent that in. Well done. That's the, that's the way we should be thinking.
Mike Harris: Mm. Yeah. It, it changes everything. It changes all of your motivation. Um, and it, it changes.
Exercise, it makes it worship. And you know, because you are doing it in faith, in faith that God is real and can be worshiped and glorified. It changes everything. Yeah,
Matt Edmundson: I love that. And I'm not beach body ready. I'm, I'm worship body ready. Is that a bit cheese? I dunno. But it's that kind of principle, isn't it?
I'm definitely not beach body ready, by the way, but, uh, I don't even know what that means anymore. I'm at the age where I don't really care. Um, uh, so. Any final thoughts from you guys on topic of either exercise or sleep that you wanna share?
Mike Harris: Well, you know, I would just, I would just say that you know a little bit like what Di Dave said that.
The thing [00:50:00] that I would like somebody to take away from that this is, is your value. You know, you are valuable, you know, and in the same way that like a diamond only, you know, gets it, it's value when someone's prepared to, to put it up for auction or to, to. Buy it, and you have been bought by the creator of the universe.
He gave his only son the most precious gift ever. Your value is, um. Infinite. And, and when you get a revelation of that, which is our Prayer, that you will gain a revelation of how valuable you are in God's sight. That changes how you live and that changes how you sleep. Because when you are experiencing heartache, when you are asleep, you know you can go to your father who values you above everything.
Um, when you are exercising, you're not trying to increase your value, your. [00:51:00] You're worshiping. Any final thoughts?
Dave Connolly: Yeah, just finally that and that. That's great, Mike. You know, but maybe you are watching this evening or whenever you're watching this, um, and you don't know this Jesus, that we've been talking about, and I, I want to encourage you to hear that he loves you.
He counts you as precious. He loves you so much that he senses one and only son. To die on the cross that his relationship with you can be restored, you know, and, and our time is gone. But I want to encourage you to ask yourself, maybe when you wake up tonight and you're not sure what to do, being away, but I'd ask you this question to say something very simple like this and that is, God, if you are real and you are interested in somebody like me.
Reveal yourself to me, whether [00:52:00] that be through a book, through, um, a conversation, through something you read online. This is so important. I would encourage you with all my heart to pursue him because he loves you. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: So amazing guys. I, I, I was just thinking then it is, we don't, this is not a common church topic exercise and sleep, but I, I, I just love the fact that I can be part of something that talks about exercise and sleep about the everyday stuff that actually, you know, we hear about in the median.
Think about it. You know, from a Christian worldview, a biblical worldview. And I think, um, we've just started to scratch the surface on this. But gentlemen, I've thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. Uh, it's been an absolute treat. Um, and thank you for joining us. Thank you for watching. Next week we have Dan, speaking about an equally valuable topic, nutrition.
Does that mean you've been eating? Well, Dan, uh, [00:53:00] given that we're gonna do this talk next week. Practice.
I dunno if you heard that, but Dan said he needed to practice a lot.
Is that a MOS bar, Dan? Yeah. Yeah. So we've got Dan next week as we wrap up this little interject here on, on. Body wholeness. So we've been talking about wholeness. We focused in on the body the last couple weeks, uh, which has been really interesting. Thank you for, so all your comments by the way, from the talk I did on body from Jen's talk last week on healing.
I know we're gonna get a bunch of comments on this one. Uh, and I know we'll get a bunch of comments on the next one. Just again, it's not common topics we talk about in church and I think it's been really valuable. After that we enter August where we enter into our non-live livestream. Uh, it's basically where we still broadcast, but.
Full disclosure, they're prerecorded and we don't have the Conversation Street. It's just so the whole team. Can just take August off, enjoy it as a bit of rest, bit of sabbatical, and be with their families. We've [00:54:00] done it every year since we've done Crowd and it's been a wonderful, wonderful opportunity for us.
Um, just to rest up, so we do broadcast every week, but like I say, it's just not life. So do come and join us. Some of us will be in the comments still 'cause, you know, we can't keep away. Um. So yeah, we've got that coming up in August. Then in September we carry on a conversation about what it means to be whole.
We carry that on and we're gonna start looking at relationships. I'm not giving you your topics yet, I've just realized you've agreed to speak, but you dunno what you're talking on.
Dave Connolly: It'll be okay. It'll be okay. It'll be
Matt Edmundson: great. Um, but no, love that Mikey. Thanks for coming on man. This is your second time here at Crowd.
Yes, it is. It was a long time. I realized I, I saw um, 'cause we're redoing the website at the moment. I saw, um, one of the old Alpha talks that you did and I was like, oh yeah, Mike's been on before. So my apologies for not having you back much sooner. That's all right. I think it's your fault, not mine.
Probably. I'm always happy. [00:55:00]
Mike Harris: It's,
Matt Edmundson: it is been
Mike Harris: great. I've really enjoyed it.
Matt Edmundson: Enjoyed, no, it's been great. Mike, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, thank you sir. Dave. Pleasure. Uh, and, uh, thanks Dan on the, on the tech and thank all of you for joining us. Uh, and thank you for joining us online. You are an absolute legend.
If no one's sold you yet today, you are awesome. Yes, you are created. Awesome. It's just a burden you've gotta bear. Uh, I've gotta bear it, so Dave's gotta bear it. Mike's gotta bear it, Mr. Surreality of Life. Life, right? Apparently. Apparently. Yeah. Anyway, God bless you. Have a great week. We'll see you next week.
Bye for [00:56:00] now.