A Missionaries Journey from Grief to Grace

What's the Story
Written By Matt Edmundson

Guest: Eunice Hill

Eunice Hill is from Winnipeg, Canada. After 42 years in Pakistan working with delightful MKs, Eunice retired to join the Member Care Department of her mission (TEAM). With her colleague, Deb Rupe, Eunice has followed up her former students in many countries. She has been active in her home church, Bethesda, with missions and work with refugees.

Here’s a summary of this week’s story:

Key Takeaways:

  1. Faith Amidst Adversity: Eunice Hill's early life was marked by significant loss with the deaths of both her parents when she was just a child. Despite these hardships, her parents' deep faith and the supportive environment they created helped her to trust in God's plan. This strong foundation of faith guided her through the challenges of her youth and shaped her resilient spirit.

  2. The Power of Missionary Work: Eunice's commitment to missionary work and education was driven by her desire to help others, particularly missionary kids who faced the hardship of long separations from their parents. Her teaching and nurturing roles in Pakistan highlighted the profound impact of dedicated educators in providing stability and love to children in difficult circumstances.

  3. The Importance of Forgiveness: Throughout her life, Eunice learned the vital role of forgiveness in maintaining spiritual and emotional health. She emphasized that forgiveness, both asking for it and giving it, is essential to avoid the destructive roots of bitterness. Her experiences demonstrated that true forgiveness is a process that requires humility and often comes at a personal cost, but it is crucial for healing and reconciliation.

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  • Matt Edmundson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to What's The Story. We're an inquisitive bunch of hosts from the What's The Story team on a mission to uncover stories about faith and courage from everyday people. And to help us do just that, we get the privilege to chat with amazing guests And delve into their faith journey, the hurdles they've overcome and the life lessons they have learned along the way.

    Now, if you enjoy our podcast, don't forget to subscribe and sign up for our newsletter on our website, which is what's the story podcast.com. It's your direct line too. The latest episodes and detailed show notes, and they all get delivered straight to your inbox. And the best part, it's absolutely. Free.

    What's the Story? is brought to you by Crowd Church. We understand that stepping into a traditional church might not be everybody's cup of tea, and that's where Crowd Church steps in, [00:01:00] providing a digital sanctuary, a safe space to explore the Christian faith where you can engage in meaningful conversations rather than just simply spectating.

    So whether you are new to the Christian faith or are in search of a new church family, we invite you to visit us at www. crowd. church and if you've got any questions just drop us an email at hello at crowd. church. We're here to help and would genuinely love to connect with you. And now, without further ado, Let's meet your host and our very special guest for today.

    Sadaf Beynon: Hey everyone, welcome to What's The Story Podcast. I'm your host, Sadaf Beynon, and today I'm speaking with Eunice Hill, a remarkable individual whose journey through loss, missionary work, and personal growth offers an invaluable perspective on faith and forgiveness. Eunice, thank you so much for [00:02:00] joining us today.

    It's truly an honor to have you on the show.

    Eunice Hill: Oh, Sadaf, it's my pleasure. It's wonderful to see that little girl grown.

    Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, we should probably let our listeners know that we do go back a fair few years, don't we?

    Eunice Hill: We do. Wonderful, yeah.

    Sadaf Beynon: Yes, yes. So, in another lifetime, um, Eunice, who was known as Auntie Eunice, was, uh, one of my dorm parents.

    in our boarding school. We'll probably get into that a bit more as the conversation goes. Should we jump in? Yes. So Eunice, your early life was marked by significant loss. Can you share how losing your parents at such a young age shaped your faith?

    Eunice Hill: Yes, um, I had parents who really loved the Lord, that made a difference.

    My dad had, um, become a Christian later in life, and he'd gone through a lot, uh, some mental ups and downs, but he [00:03:00] was a brilliant man and member of the Legislative Assembly and a lawyer QC, but, um, had a depression right after he was married to my mother. And so my mother went through a lot in the beginning, but then we saw, I hardly remember any of that.

    What I remember is him being a very outgoing, uh, preacher. He started, after his, when he came back, he was very active in missions. He was, Legal advisor to many different mission groups. And mom was the one that dashed in to make sure there was always food on the table when she had no warning when guests came.

    So it was, it was a home where God was real in the first place. And, uh, Dad never hid his depression. He would talk about it and talk about the goodness of God bringing him out of it. And so it was, it was a healthy home to grow up in that way. When Dad died, Mother, um, Dad [00:04:00] died when I was 12 of a heart attack.

    Mum reminded us that we were very fortunate to have had him. But she grieved with us, she cried with us. But she let us know that we were blessed to have had a dad like that. And that helped us, I think, in preparing for her death a year later. She had had cancer, and it came back, and um, so she had a whole year when she was really dying of cancer looking after us.

    We didn't realize how sick she was, but she went to the hospital to have a checkup on the Friday, and they admitted her, and she died on the Sunday. Until then, she looked after us in the house. And all the way through that, she said, if God takes me, he's going to look after you. He knows what he's doing.

    And so Romans 8 28 was always something that she quoted and it was so real to her that, um. It was real to us. And I remember when she passed away, I thought, well, I guess God has to look after us now. We don't have a mother or father. And [00:05:00] God did it in amazing ways. Um, my sister and I did fairly different things.

    She, she wanted home and she, she, she probably went through a lot more difficult, um, a difficult period because I was more the kind that, okay, let's get on to the next thing. There's a boarding school out there, a lot of people, and I was very much an extrovert. Pat loved her cats and home, and it was, I thought we had the same experience, and as adults, I realized her experience was very different from mine.

    She was also the oldest and took responsibility, and I let her. And I didn't realize I was just letting her take responsibility. But I was blessed to have a big sister like that. And eventually she came back to the boarding school with me. She realized it was easier to be in a boarding school where no one had parents than to live in a family where there's just a bit of difference, although the family was a lovely family.

    So God took care of us in many different ways. [00:06:00] And at that boarding school, there were missionary kids who had never been, who didn't see their parents for about four years at a time. And some of them are elementary kids. And I got to know quite a few of them. And it just seemed like such a shame when a boy in my class, his parents wouldn't be there for graduation.

    And I really got to see some of the hardships of MKs. And so when I was talking to a missionary, I wasn't a particularly well behaved child. I got into a lot of trouble. But all the way through, I thought maybe someday I'd be a missionary. It was totally unrealistic at the time. There was no congruity there.

    But God is merciful. And at the boarding school, it was a wonderful time to grow and be nurtured. And there was a dean of women That I was very, very, very merciful. There were a lot of punishments, but we had a good, we had a good relationship and I knew she loved me. So, um, [00:07:00] yeah, in talking to a missionary then about, you know, what I should do.

    I was getting to grade 12 and I wanted to go into missions. He said, you know, we desperately need people to work in the country. were teachers for the country for MK, so they don't have to be separated. Well, that really made sense to me. And that was when I said, Lord, would you let me do that? And he did.

    And that that was, that was a wonderful story, too. Yeah,

    Sadaf Beynon: that's great. Can I I'm just want to go back to some of the things you were talking about with your in your early life with your parents. I wanted to ask, how old were you when your parents? I

    Eunice Hill: was 12 when dad died and 13 when mom died. Yeah. It's

    Sadaf Beynon: young.

    Eunice Hill: Yeah. And that was, that was a hard age. And yet it's amazing when I look back and see that mother's statement was true. God looked after us [00:08:00] and there were certainly hard times. But, um, my memories basically of being in boarding school were wonderful. I love, I love the kids. I really miss Pat the first year when she didn't come.

    I remember standing by the window wondering if she'd drive in from the city with some friends that would come in and I found that hard, but she came the next year and that made it easier. Yeah. And then she ended up graduating the next year and going to Montreal to McGill for university. And we were really never together again until about 1960, which would have been when we were about 20, I was about 20.

    And um, so that meant a lot. We had two years when I taught in Winnipeg here and she came. and join me in Winnipeg. She was in a dietitian,

    Sadaf Beynon: yeah. Right, okay.

    Eunice Hill: What,

    Sadaf Beynon: what lessons do you feel like your parents instilled in you in the, [00:09:00] in the time that, short time that you had with them? Because I, you mentioned about your mom after your dad died, she grieved with you, she cried with you, And also prepared you that if anything ever happened to her, the Lord would take care of you, which I think is a wonderful lesson.

    But I'm just wondering if there was other stuff that you have carried with you.

    Eunice Hill: I realized one of the amazing things was so many people deal with guilt. You know, when their parents died, they wished they'd done something differently. And I was a horrible teenager. I'd come in late, and it was Pat that would say, you know, you're just, this is terrible what you're doing to mom, and you're not listening, and you're not obeying, and, and I really should have just been miserably, miserably, Feeling guilty, you know, after she died.

    And then I always knew she understood. So somehow, you know, she never wrung her hands and said, Oh, what's going to happen to me, to you when I go? You're not behaving well. You know, she could have used her illness as manipulation. And she never [00:10:00] did that. She also reminded us that God was good through it all.

    and that God was totally trustworthy. There were so many things that she got through to us in that, in that year that she was going. And to me, it's amazing that I realized as I got older too, what it meant to know I was forgiven by her. And I don't think I ever went and asked for forgiveness, but that's just a mystery, isn't it?

    That God can even do that. Yeah.

    Sadaf Beynon: I want to come back to that as well. Um, so you mentioned missions. And, um, I was wondering if you would want to talk to us about how you got into missionary work and education. And that

    Eunice Hill: was an amazing thing that God did all the way through it. When I got to, I had that discussion when I was in high school with the missionary and so I really felt God wanted me [00:11:00] to go in to study, to do education and work with MKs.

    So I was always heading in that direction, but it was about eight years after I left high school that I finally graduated from college. But God was in all of it. It was a very circuitous route. I did teacher's college, and then I went to university for a year, then came to Winnipeg and taught for two years.

    But that gave me my permanent certificate in Canada. But then I knew, I'd had a year of Bible school in the middle of it too, but then I thought, you know, I need two more years of Bible school and two more years of teacher, of teacher, of training, yeah, education, and it just seemed interminable when I When I've been teaching for two years, four more years, and I was talking to my pastor saying, you know, this just seems so long.

    Uh, I'm just hardly, hardly know where to start. I should finish my Bible. I should finish university. He said, did you ever think of going to the States and doing it in two [00:12:00] years, doing it in a Christian college? And I said, well, Aren't they very expensive? And he said, well, you know, if God wants you there, that won't be the problem.

    And so I thought, okay, if I'm going to have to trust God as the missionary, I may as well find out right now. And by this time, of course, there was no more money in our estate. By the way, when, when Pat and I turned 21, the estate was closed from my mother and there was, I think, 14 left in it. I mean, it's absolutely a miracle.

    I mean, we could have been out 14 on one trip that we took, but that kept us all the way through till we were able to be independent. But at this point, there was no money left in the estate. And I was going down to California to a very expensive college. And a bit terrified by it all, but also excited because I felt God wanted me to.

    And it was there that I just saw God answer one prayer after the other. I came with about 400 in my pocket. I think the year was [00:13:00] probably at least 4, 000 and that would be much more, of course. But, um, the Dean of Women called me in early on and said, You know, there's a lady wanting to give a scholarship to a student, and would you apply for it?

    And I thought, wow, God can do this! So I applied for it, and then there was a sign up on the bulletin board within months that said they needed a teacher in Pakistan at a school for missionary kids. And they'd just begun this student Missionary Peace Corps program. It was the first year. And they introduced it, and I thought, Well, I can't even listen to this because I'm going to have to work next summer.

    I won't even, you know, it doesn't apply to me. But when I'd had this offer of scholarship, and this blue airform on a bruleton board from Chuck Robb, I just thought, That's for me. There was no one else at the school that had taught before, and they wanted an experienced teacher. And I was there to teach missionary kids.

    So I went to the admissions person and [00:14:00] she said, well, you know, I said, are you really thinking of that in Pakistan? She said, well, I must admit, we were thinking of Mexico or Alaska first for our first project, something near her home. But she said, we'll consider everything a possibility. So she wrote them off.

    And so the Christmas holidays went, I, I registered for my second semester. And I had decided that if I owed any money at the end of the first semester, I'd go home. Because, you know, and then I know God didn't want me to be a missionary. And if, if I didn't have any debts, I'd apply for the second semester.

    Well, with this scholarship, I thought, oh yes, everything's wonderful. I applied, I got into the second semester, but a weekend, there was a letter in my mailbox that said, this lady would like the scholarship to go to an American student. I'm sure you'll take this from the Lord. I thought, God, you've cheated me.

    I'm registered for the second semester and I don't have any money. So anyway, one of my friends who had always been amazed that I was there on faith, she couldn't believe that. She [00:15:00] said, what's the matter? God was really good yesterday. So it was good to have friends to sort of, you know, Remind me, but I remember the missions woman too saying, God, we know you're just as close in the dark as you are in the light.

    And that really encouraged me, but she agreed. I said, I think we should cancel it until we know, at least postpone it until we know What's happening? Because I can't go and leave the college, my debts and she agreed. So there's no more talk of it. I went on with my studies, but the day before they were announcing the student missionaries, I found that my tuition had been totally paid for the year.

    I couldn't believe it. And here. One of my head residents was part of a group that was in the auxiliaries for the college. I mean, in Canada, we didn't have auxiliaries for our universities. I didn't even know they had auxiliaries, but I guess she'd written them, and the different auxiliaries had sent money in.

    And then, uh, Of course, they wanted to hear about it. [00:16:00] So, I ended up traveling around to all these auxiliaries before I left. And when I came back, by then, they'd asked me if I would stay a whole year and take a year's leave of absence from college. When I came back a year later, I was speaking to the same group and a lady said, you know, I broke my hip the day after you spoke, and this is my first day out, but I prayed for you every day.

    And the Lord showed me that Here he built up a whole prayer group around that, you know, it wasn't just one cold scholarship. It was all these ladies in different groups that were praying and God did it His way and it was much better. So even that hard experience was just really a wonderful reminder that He was doing it.

    And then the kids had a shower for me, helped me buy all the things I needed for 15 months. I was on a college campus with no car, no car. It would have been hard to gather that up. And the Lord just looked after so many things. And arriving in Pakistan was [00:17:00] one of the most exciting things that I ever did.

    I arrived in Karachi with a bunch of, um, American. Uh, Air Force guys who are heading up to the Peshawar Air Force Base. I was coming for 15 months and so were they, and they were just dreading it. Well, they were often married men that had to leave families and they hated this post. And I was talking like I was so excited and telling what God had done and they were on the same plane up to Pindi.

    And on the way, on the way, as we were going out the plane, one of the guys stopped by me and said, Oh, I do hope it goes all right for you. I hope you're not disappointed. Oh dear. But no, it was wonderful. Yeah. God was very, very good. Yeah.

    Sadaf Beynon: It's incredible listening to you, um, talk how God showed his hand and, um, showed you how trustworthy he is.

    Same lesson that you had learned from your parents. Yeah, yeah, God reinforced that all along the way,

    Eunice Hill: in many ways.

    Sadaf Beynon: Amazing. [00:18:00]

    Eunice Hill: It was a wonderful platform of faith for me to head out, yeah.

    Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And also, I guess when you, when you know that about the Lord, you give him that space as well to do his thing his way and you trust the process, so that's, that's, that's great.

    Eunice Hill: Well, there was also one experience before I went to Westmont that made a big difference too. I remember that summer thinking, you know, I'm really not missionary material, and God really brought me up face to face with Him, and I really had to look at myself and realize there were so many inconsistencies, and I wasn't out witnessing to people, I wasn't a missionary.

    I just thought, Lord, why am I doing this? You know, if you can't, if you can't change me, then there's no sense in my going out there. I'm not going to be a missionary when I arrive there. I've got to be somebody here. I was teaching Sunday school and working in the church, but I wasn't [00:19:00] knocking on doors in my apartment block.

    And, um, so anyway, I got so discouraged. I said, God, if you don't show me something in the next week, I think I'm going to have to leave this because I think I'm, I'm just, I'm not being realistic and I'm not going to be someone that's going to be a missionary. And someone handed me a book at church that Sunday and I thought, maybe this is the answer.

    And it was, um, it was called The Saving Life of Christ by, um, Thomas, Ian Thomas. And there was a chapter in there about Moses looking at the burning bush. And he said, Moses could have looked at that bush and thought, oh my, what amazing properties that it burns and it isn't consumed. But of course, Well, God could have chosen any bush, it was God in the bush that made the difference.

    And that just turned a light on for me, I thought, Oh God, that's right, [00:20:00] if it's God in the bush, you've got a bush. And if it's any old bush that would do, you do it. And so from the beginning, I realized I had to be very, very dependent on the Lord. So I learned that dependency to going into Westmont and recognize that God was the one that was making the difference.

    Sadaf Beynon: That's really great. So tell us more about your, um Your time in Pakistan, was it as, as good as you had, as you were hoping?

    Eunice Hill: Anything I could have imagined. We were in an old army barracks, sans home, wooden structure. We had to get the kids, I had 24 little girls in boarding it for, well, the first, the first summer I was teaching and that was, that was, That was a, that was a dream job.

    I'd had 32 second graders in Canada for two years, and um, good kids, lovely kids, it wasn't like now where there's just piles of discipline problems, but really hard teaching, and for two years, your first two [00:21:00] years. So here I was with 18 bright, bright kids. Now there were a couple that were struggling, but you had time for them.

    And, um, I remember doing a bulletin board my first week, and I was so proud of it. We only had tissue paper, and I stuck it up, and I had all these words with three letters, and, you know, they could change the short vowel to the long vowel, and I had to bury the one. I was so proud of myself. Walked out of the classroom when I came back in the next day, there'd been a monsoon rain, and all the tissue paper had melted.

    So, I realized that We were going to have to start again on some things. And then sometimes the rain would come down so hard on that tin roof that you just have to stop talking and let the kids carry on at their desks. But, um, they were all things that you could laugh at. And it was that that first year, although then when I got at the end of the summer, a lot of the children were [00:22:00] going to back home.

    We should explain the calendar year that the summer was the time when the parents came up. Yes. And so the parents were there. There was no boarding. And so I had, we had large classes and that's why they divided the first and second grade. Mm-Hmm. . But when the parents went down, they took a lot of the first graders and so they could go together again in first grade.

    And I kept the language arts program with the second graders, but then I had these 24 little girls and um. When I moved into this Sands home, this barn of a place with these little girls, the bats would fly in the windows. I had been there all summer just living on my own and that wasn't the problem. But with all these kids, when I, when the bat would come in, I'd scream and the big tall lady in the next door with a tennis racket would come and whap the bat.

    So I hadn't, I hadn't learned to really deal with it. And then when I was putting these little girls to bed, a [00:23:00] bat flew in and I went, and I thought, if I scream, I've lost the whole group. I said, what does your mom do when the bat comes in? And they said, Oh, she puts the light out in the hall. She puts the light on in the hall, turns the light out here and the bat goes.

    So I said, okay, well, let's try it. And so none of them got upset. They were used to it. But if I'd, if I'd flown and screen, so I learned I could take a little more than I had this summer.

    Sadaf Beynon: I have memories of, uh, flying squirrels getting in through the loop. Yeah, yeah,

    Eunice Hill: yeah, yeah. So there were, there were a lot of experiences that were very, very different.

    Walking the kids to school in the daytime and walking along the mountain roads and the view of the mountains was absolutely beautiful and I got there before they quite clouded over for the monsoon season and got to realize what a beautiful place I was in. We had a bishti out back, a man that had the hot water.

    And I learned to go out on the balcony and I learned Urdu. [00:24:00] My first day, garam pani ha. And they made me ask for my own water and he brought it up. And so they had bought these pails of water and the, The water went into a big tin tub and I sort of thought, how do you get in and out of this and how do you empty it?

    But we figured that out too. And yeah, it was some very basic, basic stuff. And the first year I shared the bathroom with the little girls and that was very intimate. Yeah. But overall, it just was, it was a very special time. And the kids were outstanding. Yeah. I just, I couldn't get over what, Lovely families they had.

    They came from a background where basically they knew they were loved and disciplined. And that doesn't mean they weren't unkind to each other. They, they were missing their parents. And there were times when they were mean to one another and I was probably mean to them and had to ask forgiveness. There were, there was, there was a lot of that kind of thing, but I [00:25:00] learned more about that later on, how to.

    Acceptance and how important it was to accept everyone, those little ones and who they were and not try to change them all.

    Sadaf Beynon: Were there any challenges that you faced, particularly as a house mother?

    Eunice Hill: Oh, as I, I mean, as I went back and then there's 40 years of it, yes, many challenges. And some were between staff because, um, if the staff member down the hall put their kids to bed just a bit later than your kids, then of course my kids thought that was very unfair and the houseparent down the hall tend to change quite a bit.

    So every time the houseparent down the hall changed, I had to change a little bit with my kids to sort of make it. Fair in their eyes and some things they had to realize life isn't fair. But, um, yeah, and I did have to learn to ask for forgiveness. And I remember one time when, uh, we had an administrator that [00:26:00] he was a good man, but It's put in the wrong place.

    Sometimes people would put people up in boarding because they thought they would fit there better and it wasn't the right job for them. And, uh, I was struggling and we had younger staff members that were struggling. And of course I was trying to be very good and say, you know, we have to realize their authority and try to work out.

    And, uh, Trying to help this young couple see that, you know, some things would be okay, but he was a bit flat footed when it came to discipline. And, uh, so he'd pick up a kid and spank him, one of our kids. And of course this young couple was just irate with this, that he would do that. And anyway, I thought I was being the peacemaker and being very good about it, but I found him very difficult too.

    And I wasn't hardly admitting it to myself, but I was a secretary in the morning staff meetings and sort of rolling my eyes. When things didn't go right. And anyway, we had, um, [00:27:00] we had a couple come visit and they were having communion with us, uh, probably member care couple. I didn't realize it was just from some mission, but they pointed out, they said, you know, we've heard there's a lot of sickness right now.

    And Bible does say that, uh, for this reason, many are sick amongst you. If you're not working through things as a group. And, uh, we'll take time before communion for you to apologize to someone, get things right with, with people. Well, this man was sitting right next to me and I knew what I had to say. So anyway, I turned to him and asked him for forgiveness.

    And it was the next day his wife came to me and said, Oh Eunice, that's such an answer to prayer. She had realized what my attitude, I hadn't realized that my attitude was showing and it was affecting all this. And I thought I was being so good about helping everybody. Do the right thing. Look right. And it wasn't good.

    Yeah. [00:28:00] No, I was, I was not one that was helping in that situation. I, I had to learn with administration. I realized when you look at personality profiles, my personality profile is a hard time with administration. You have high expectations of them. And I realized I wasn't easy on my administrators.

    Although I think most of them, we got along very well. Yeah. Yeah.

    Sadaf Beynon: You've touched on forgiveness a couple of times, and I'd really like to dig into this. I know, um, forgiveness is not something that comes easily to many of us. Plus, there are, I believe, misconceptions about it as well. So, I was wondering, how would you say that the Bible defines forgiveness?

    And then, secondly, how does forgiveness work? How has that definition then shaped your, or has it shaped your approach to forgiving others? Well,

    Eunice Hill: I guess the biggest thing God, the Bible says about forgiveness is that we are [00:29:00] forgiven. And when we think of what it took the Lord Jesus to provide that forgiveness, um, it's such an amazing thing.

    And I've heard people say, we could have thought of a lot of things as human beings, but we could never probably have thought of forgiveness. God bless. Without Jesus. And, um, I think it's only as we realize ourselves that we're deeply forgiven. That we can see how important it is to have that, that whole concept work through all of our relationships, asking for forgiveness and, and being for accepting, uh, uh, other people's forgiveness.

    But I think, I think probably. One of the, one of the biggest lessons that I've had came in the last few weeks, strangely enough. It's my 60 years that I've been, since I started, since I went to Pakistan, [00:30:00] and the little girls had put something together, and this was 60 years later, they were the first graders, and it was very sweet, just amazing.

    But they decided to get one of my little boys, too, from the last group. Well, by the last group, I did not finish well at MCS. I was tired. I was getting close to 60, and I was still with young children. My hearing was going, so there was stress in the hearing kids and the noise around, and I wasn't sleeping well, and I thought, Lord, this is my last term, and I'm not sleeping, and I'm teary, and I'm aggravated with kids, just more irritated easily, and I was just, I was just so, feeling so sad that I was finishing this way.

    In fact, Deb used to get some of the young teachers to come and help give me a break in the afternoon so I could have a rest, and I thought, oh, this is such a weak way to finish. And, that little boy, when he spoke, he said, Auntie Eunice. [00:31:00] I don't remember you ever even raising your voice or saying, saying an unkind word.

    And I went into devotions nearly every night saying, Oh kids, I've been angry and it's not your fault. It's my, you know, I'm, I'm tired and I'm not doing well. Forgive me. I'm sorry. And It just amazed me, somehow those little kids forgave to the point where he didn't even remember it. I mean, he really spoke so sincerely about all this kindness and love I showed.

    And I guess I realized then how wonderful it is to be forgiven, too. And then, um, with our kids, I realized, you know, As we got, as I, it was almost as I left, I wished I'd seen this when I was there, but as, after I left boarding, I thought, you know, there were those little ones that came in at night and they're comforted.

    But then there were the ones that didn't come in and I just took for granted, well, you know, you have a child on [00:32:00] your lap. You don't go around then visiting all the beds until you get them back to bed again. I thought, you know, I wonder about the ones that never came in. And I had just taken for granted, they're fine.

    And then I was thinking, as I looked back on it, I thought, I wonder if they felt safe enough to come in. What a horrible thing. I wonder if they left the department thinking they weren't as important as the ones that came in, and therefore maybe God didn't love them as much. I mean, there's horrible things that can spin off of these things.

    So that's when I realized visiting kids, how important, when we, when Deb and I started visiting kids, looking back on our time in boarding, we've tried to find out how they're Memories were, and sometimes we ask forgiveness for the school, sometimes we ask forgiveness for ourselves, things that we just were unconscious, we were just not aware of.

    And there's probably children that shouldn't have been in boarding, but we weren't aware of that. We realize now that there's [00:33:00] certain things that in a family that can cause it very, very hard, cause it to be very hard for separations. If a mom, for instance, has had a separation herself. Like often our kids, if they came back could hardly put their own kids in boarding.

    And, um, there's, they're just, uh, things that we weren't aware of. And when they were starting the school, they had to have every mission on board. So some of these parents would have taken their kids up, but they thought if we don't, Keep kids in here, the school won't last and they'll have to, we'll have this problem, this bigger problem of just every few years seeing our kids.

    So, and, and I realized some of these little kids had to stay in for that reason too. It was sort of a board decision. And as we, as they got more secure and the school was running well, we felt more free to say, keep your child at home. And I think the parents felt freer too. And there was help in homeschooling, but in the beginning, those first few years.

    It [00:34:00] was really hard for some of those little ones and it was hard to know what to do. And we probably made a lot of mistakes.

    Sadaf Beynon: It's clear from listening to you talk that your understanding of God's forgiveness towards you has influenced your own willingness to then forgive others. But forgiveness often comes at a, at a, at a cost, doesn't it? Yeah. So has there been any instances where forgiving someone doesn't work? Was particularly challenging for you?

    Eunice Hill: Well, asking for forgiveness. , my pride was a huge thing. Um, yes. That's

    Sadaf Beynon: another side of it, isn't it? Yeah.

    Eunice Hill: Yeah. I, yeah, I think and, and it's easy to say, I forgive you, and then it comes back up and then you think, well, have I really forgiven? And sometimes I think we really want to forgive. But we, it's hard to, for you can't forget, I can't, you can't forget everything.

    God can help you, uh, not dwell on it. And I think [00:35:00] that's a big part of learning to forgive. But um, and I think one thing we have to realize too is I remember being with a child who'd been through a horrible thing. She'd seen her mother killed. It was a tribal child that had come to one of our MK retreats.

    And, um, she was adopted by missionaries then. And I was with a counselor. She was going through things with her and she said, you know, forgiving does not say it's okay. It's so serious that Jesus had to die for it. And I think that helped that child so much in realizing, because how could you forgive people who had killed her mother as a small child?

    And she was, she was carrying this load as a, as an older teen. And, um, yeah, I, I think my biggest problem when I, when I would find it hard to forgive was to, When it came back, thinking, I haven't forgiven, and, and then having to ask God, help me, help me put this, you know, dwell on something [00:36:00] else, and really forgive.

    But I'm trying to think, I, I've ever been that hard done by. I think, basically, uh, yeah, I think, I, yeah, it, it is, it, it's very painful. And as someone has pointed out, someone has to pay the price. And of course, because Jesus paid the prices, why we can forgive, but the person then who forgives is the one who's paying the price on that level.

    And that can be very hard. Yeah. Because it's, it's costly. Yeah, and, um, I guess, I, yeah, I certainly have seen people have been to much harder things than I have, where, you know, women whose husbands have done things that were very hard. And I remember a woman saying, it just doesn't seem [00:37:00] fair. You know, he was the one that did this, but I'm the one that's supposed to go through all this awful stuff and forgiveness.

    And um, that's probably an area that you know more about than I know. Yeah. Yeah, because I think it is, it's a very pain, it's a costly thing with, with children and with people that I was working with. Um, I would be angry, but I know Debbie, I went through a thing with Debbie where there was an administrative thing that we both struggled with.

    And, uh, I remember she said that she had to go back and really work it through. And um, it took, it took really, I remember talking about sitting by a stream and trying to keep the good stuff and put the, with the bad stuff and taking stones and putting the bad stuff in the stream and let it be washed away and going through things that were really difficult.

    Yeah.

    Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. I, I, yeah, there is a [00:38:00] cost to it, but I think. It can also be a cost for holding onto unforgiveness as well. Yeah. Right. So,

    Eunice Hill: yeah. Oh, a terrible cost. I mean, that root of bitterness is what is what all of us want to avoid at all costs. And I think it's what was, when I saw that in myself that I realized how quickly, um, how much I needed to ask for forgiveness.

    Yeah. Yeah.

    Sadaf Beynon: So what, what do you think would be, um. The implications on our spiritual and emotional wellbeing. If we were to hold on to unforgiveness, I mean, you've mentioned bitterness, but is there anything else that comes to mind? No. It's

    Eunice Hill: sort of death to our spiritual life, isn't it? It's a bitterness that grows up and just chokes everything and, um.

    I mean, the Lord's Prayer, forgive as we forgive, uh, others and I think it just, it affects our whole relationship with God. That doesn't mean God isn't [00:39:00] merciful and that he doesn't help us with other things while we're going through this. But, uh, Certainly, if we hold on to it, it grows, it grows and takes over, and that bitterness can spill out to everybody else, the people we love, and, um, it's something that we would have a very hard, we have a very hard time controlling.

    If we see people who really have that, that anger, that deep anger and bitterness, it's, I was, I was holding on to it. With that, with that man, I thought I was just being a lovely person, and I was, I was not working on a relationship. And it wasn't even, I'd been wronged. It was just, I didn't like what was going on and that was affecting everybody.

    And his wife was the one that told me about it. I wasn't even aware of it. So I think whether it's forgiveness, giving forgiveness or asking forgiveness. We can be [00:40:00] very unaware sometimes until we have to face ourselves and realize something's wrong here. And, but I think it's so important to walk in the light and God will shine his light on that.

    But, But if it's a matter then of the will as to whether we're able to come to him. I think we have to ask him to even help us with the forgiveness. It's a very difficult thing. And um, but I think when we finally humble ourselves and come to God and say, I desperately need your help in this, then um, then it can be worked through and sometimes it should be worked through with somebody else to help us.

    Sadaf Beynon: What would you say to someone who's been holding on to unforgiveness for quite some time? What would you

    Eunice Hill: Mmm, I'd say I really feel for you, because their life would not be very happy, and probably they're not [00:41:00] making people around them very, very happy. It would, turns into something that sours life, and sours our view of things. The picture of a root of bitterness, I think, is such a, is such a vivid picture, because it's a deep root, and it has to be pulled out, and it's painful.

    But if it doesn't, the root just keeps growing and it keeps taking over and um, it affects all of our relationships, especially our relationship with the Lord, but that relationship with the people that we can't forgive. Yeah, no, no. And oh, I think I would say compassionately, don't let the enemy win because, you know, we think we have an enemy that we're angry with.

    But the enemy that wants us to be bitter and angry is Satan himself, and he's winning, [00:42:00] and he's, we're losing our life while he's winning, we're losing our relationships, we're losing our influence for God, and, and he's winning, and um, yeah, Jesus died for that.

    Sadaf Beynon: We talked about there being a cost to forgiveness, and um, sometimes when there is deep hurt And the need for forgiveness is there.

    Do you, um, do you differentiate? between forgiveness and reconciliation?

    Eunice Hill: I think God talks about giving us a ministry of reconciliation, and that's because of Jesus. So, I think that, I think in the eyes of God, it would be pretty hard to, the way he wants to work in our lives, and he wants us to be ministers of reconciliation, it'd be hard to do that [00:43:00] if we think we've forgiven but not reconciled ourselves.

    Yeah, it's interesting we're having a reconciliation thing in our church right now. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, you realize the enemy does not want Christians. That's the sign that we love one another is that we're his disciples. So if the enemy can attack that area, he's won. And So I think that is why it's so painful too.

    It's one of the hardest things to work in that area.

    But then it's a wonderful thing if God's given us that ministry of reconciliation afterwards, because he wants others to be reconciled too. And, um, I think that's one thing that Deb and I are able to do sometimes as, as we travel with kids is ask for forgiveness and seeing them. I think it helps with their reconciliation with God and the whole process too, if they're [00:44:00] able to forgive.

    Sadaf Beynon: It's not easy, but it's a rich experience, isn't it?

    Eunice Hill: Oh, painful, yes. Very, very painful. And as I say, my hurts in life have not been in this area. You know, I lost my parents. Um, with my mother, I never felt that I was angry with God. I just knew that God was the one that was going to look after me. And I realized that, um, when you've had these very deep hurts, And they're far, far harder.

    And the more you love someone, the harder it is to forget them. The harder, the deeper the hurt is. And of course I lost family members. So it's only my sister and I, so, um, yeah, there are different things God has for each one of us, the lessons that we learned. Yeah. And the experiences that we have to go through that are painful.[00:45:00]

    Yeah.

    Sadaf Beynon: So speaking about your family and what the experiences that you've been through and that you've shared with us, how has your understanding of God's timing and his goodness evolved?

    Eunice Hill: Yeah. I guess looking back, I just see his amazing timing. Yeah. We're going through this, this problem at church and from the giving, I've been praying about.

    Persevering patience were the words that God gave me, and it was going to take a while. And I thought it would be all tied up in a nice little bow. I like to say things reconcile quickly, and it's gone on, and it's gone on, and it's rippled effects. And, um, I see now that God is at work. God has done something already.

    But it wasn't the way I would have done [00:46:00] it. And he's merciful and he's listening and he's answering prayer, but there's people that are still not willing to, to be reconciled. And um, to keep believing and keep praying and asking God to continue in that is a hard thing, but that's where we pray for one another and ask God's mercy.

    And it's the kind of thing where, again, I see the enemy on the outside causing misunderstandings and we lose trust with one another. And when things carry on, it grows, and once you've lost trust in other people or friends, it's a very difficult thing to regain that trust, and to let God work in a way that people can be genuinely reconciled to God and to one another, [00:47:00] and

    Sadaf Beynon: Why do you think that is?

    Eunice Hill: I think because we're human, we're sinners, I mean, part of it is deep hurts, but part of the deep hurt is that Sometimes, sometimes it's just I want my own way and you're not listening to me. Sometimes you've misunderstood me and I'm deeply hurt. And those are probably the deepest hurts. If we feel that someone has totally misunderstood us and said unkind things.

    And, um, and I think there's some of that. In this thing in our church where it's very honorable people, fine people, they went through a very difficult experience together and they've hurt one another probably. And it's over even the third, it's over, it isn't even with one another, but they've hurt one another [00:48:00] standing up for different parts of the problem.

    And, um, I think some people would think, you know, I remember one talking about the other and saying, well, yeah, someone's loyal to someone, but. Loyalties and gangs too. So you just get that kind of an idea in and then you think, well, that person has a problem with loyalty. And so, you know, people are trying to be upright on both sides, but it has to, we have to be willing to really come to God and really look at where our motives are and try to see where our hurts are and take responsibility for some of them.

    And, um, and give the hurts to God, give them to him and ask him to do something with them because he's the only one that can work in our hearts to bring, to bring any kind of peace. As you say that, that probably isn't until we let it go. And I think that forgiveness [00:49:00] is really giving it to God. It's saying, I can't do it even, but I am giving it to you to do.

    You work in my heart. And, uh, yeah.

    Sadaf Beynon: What is your one message?

    Eunice Hill: Oh dear. Yeah, God is to be trusted. Things can be difficult in life, but He is for us. And, uh, if we can believe that and believe in His love, And that picture of being under his wings is a wonderful picture and a refuge, but also the excitement that he wants to work through us and he's willing to, but it's any old Bush that will do.

    I love that. Yeah, yeah. I love that. Trusting him. Any old Bush. As I look back and see relationships with you kids and the way many of you have grown, it's just been such a wonderful [00:50:00] thing. And yeah, we just. Trust God to keep doing it and keep making us open to new things and yeah, and never give up on someone.

    Remember that it might not happen right now, but he's, God's, God is at work if we're praying. Yeah. Yeah. We can give up on one another far too soon. Yeah. We do.

    Sadaf Beynon: Eunice, listening to your story, it's a clear testament to God's grace and his transformative power of faith and of forgiveness. Thank you so much for sharing your heart and your journey with us.

    It's been an honor.

    Eunice Hill: Sadaf, thank you. Yeah. It's wonderful to see what God's done in your life. Yeah. We're very thankful. Bless you.

    Sadaf Beynon: For everyone listening, thanks for tuning in today. I hope Eunice's story has inspired you to walk your own path with faith, to embrace the power of forgiveness, [00:51:00] and to appreciate the beautiful timing of God's plans.

    Remember, no matter the challenge, there's always a way forward. Until next time, bye for now.

    Eunice Hill: Thanks.

    Bye.

    Matt Edmundson: And just like that, we have reached the end of another fascinating conversation. Now remember to check out Crowd Church at www. crowd. church, even if you might not see the point of church. You see, we are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus can help us live a more meaningful life. We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith, and a place where you can contribute and grow.

    And you are welcome at Crowd Church. Don't forget to subscribe to the What's The Story Podcast on your favourite podcast app, because we've got a treasure trove of inspiring stories coming your way, and we would basically hate for you to miss [00:52:00] any of them. And just in case no one has told you yet today, remember you are awesome.

    Yes, you are. Created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. What's the Story is a production of Crowd Church. Our fantastic team, including Anna Kettle, Sadaf Beynon, and me, Matt Edmundson, uh, and Tanya Hutzalak, work behind the scenes tirelessly to bring you all these fabulous, Stories. Our theme song is a creative work of Josh Edmundson.

    And if you're interested in the transcript or show notes, head over to our website, whatsthestorypodcast. com. And whilst you're there, sign up for our free weekly newsletter to get all of this goodness delivered straight to your inbox. So that's it from all of us this week here at What's The Story. Thank you so much for joining us.

    Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. We'll catch you next time. Bye for [00:53:00] now.

 

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