What If the Easter Story Is Actually True?
We all know the Easter story. Eggs, a long weekend, maybe a roast dinner with the family. But strip all of that away, and you're left with a claim so extraordinary it demands a response. A man was executed, sealed in a tomb, and three days later He was walking, talking, and eating fish with His friends. Not a metaphor. Not a legend. A straight-up miracle.
Dan explored that claim this Easter at Crowd Church, and rather than asking us to take it on blind faith, he walked us through the evidence. The kind of evidence that convinced a sceptical journalist to become a Christian, and that has Christ's own brother changing his mind about who Jesus really was.
The Women Got There First
All four Gospels agree on one detail that, at first glance, seems unremarkable. The first people to discover the empty tomb were women. Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and others depending on the account.
Why does that matter? Because in first-century Jewish culture, a woman's testimony wasn't accepted in a court of law. If you were inventing a story to launch a movement, you'd put your most credible witnesses front and centre. You'd get your facts straight across every account.
But that's not what happened. The Gospel writers recorded what actually took place, not the version that would have made them look more convincing. The names don't even match perfectly across the accounts, which is exactly what you'd expect from multiple honest eyewitnesses rather than a coordinated story.
"Greetings."
One of the most understated moments in all of scripture comes in Matthew 28. The women have fled the empty tomb in fear and joy. And then Jesus appears. His first word? Greetings.
He's just conquered death. He's walked out of a sealed tomb past guards who collapsed like dead men at the sight of an angel. And His opening line is basically, "Hey."
There's something beautifully human about that. The risen Jesus didn't arrive with thunder and demands. He showed up as a friend. He ate meals, walked roads, and had conversations. He wasn't a ghost or a hallucination. Ghosts don't eat. Hallucinations don't appear to 500 people at different times.
The Road to Emmaus
Two of Jesus' followers were walking to a town called Emmaus after the crucifixion, trying to make sense of everything that had happened. And the place they were heading tells us something about their headspace. Emmaus was famous for a Jewish military victory. These disciples were still expecting a political revolution, a warrior king who would overthrow Rome. Instead, their leader had been crucified.
Jesus appeared beside them on the road, but they didn't recognise Him. Their expectations had blinded them.
Has your head ever been in a place where you've missed what God is doing because you were so fixed on how you thought He should do it? These two had spent three years with Jesus every day and couldn't see Him standing right next to them. Sometimes we blink our own eyes, convinced we know how God is going to work, and miss what He's actually doing.
Then they sat down for a meal. Jesus broke bread, and suddenly they knew. Their friend, their rabbi, alive. And they ran straight back to Jerusalem to tell everyone.
The Evidence Paul Laid Out
The resurrection isn't only recorded in the Gospels. Paul, writing to the church in Corinth, lays it out plainly in 1 Corinthians 15. Christ died, was buried, was raised on the third day. He appeared to Peter, then to the twelve, then to more than 500 people at once, most of whom were still alive when Paul was writing.
That last detail matters. Paul was essentially saying, "If you don't believe me, go and ask them. They're still around."
He also mentions James, the brother of Jesus, who gets a special mention because he'd been a sceptic. Earlier in the Gospels, James didn't understand what his brother was doing. But when he saw Jesus alive after the crucifixion, everything changed.
Same Creature, New Life
Dan shared about a documentary he watched about dragonflies with his daughter, and discovered something remarkable about their life cycle.
A dragonfly starts life as a small, dark nymph swimming underwater for up to two years. Hidden from the world above. Then one day it climbs up a plant, sheds its dark skin, and this coloured creature emerges. It takes its first ever breath. Wings unfurl, dry in the sun, and within an hour it flies off, completely transformed.
Same DNA. Same creature. But it can breathe now. It can fly.
The Hebrew word for breath is the same as the word for spirit. God breathed life into Adam and Eve. He left us the Holy Spirit. And when Jesus rose from the dead, He showed us what transformation actually looks like. Not a different person, but the same person, fully alive.
Paul puts it this way in 1 Corinthians 15, using The Message translation: "You plant a dead seed, soon there's a flourishing plant. There's no visual likeness between seed and plant... The corpse that's planted is no beauty, but when it's raised, it's glorious. Put in the ground weak, it comes up powerful."
"What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable." (1 Corinthians 15:42, ESV)
Thomas Wanted Proof, and Jesus Gave It
Thomas gets a bit of an unfair reputation. He said he wouldn't believe Jesus was alive until he could see the nail marks for himself. Often called Doubting Thomas, but honestly, wouldn't most of us want to check?
Two things stand out about what happened next. First, when Thomas said those words, Jesus wasn't in the room. Eight days later, Jesus appeared and said, "Put your hands here. Touch me where the nails were." He knew exactly what Thomas had said without being present.
Second, Jesus still carried His scars. God could have healed every mark. But those scars bear testimony. As the prophet Isaiah wrote hundreds of years earlier, "By His stripes we are healed." The risen Jesus chose to keep the evidence of what He'd been through.
As Anna put it during Conversation Street, wanting to see for yourself is completely valid. "Ask God to show you, because I believe He will."
Why Values Without Resurrection Don't Work
A question came through during Conversation Street that cut right to the heart of things. Why are so many people willing to accept Christian values but not the resurrection?
Dan's answer was honest. "It's the easy way to do it, isn't it? We can store lots of things in the Bible as fables. We can take the good bits."
And those good bits are genuinely good. Be kind. Love your neighbour. But as Anna pointed out, if it's just about being a good person, you don't need the cross or the resurrection at all. Take the resurrection out of Easter, and you've taken all the power away.
Will brought it back to the dragonfly. Following Jesus' teaching would be amazing, like living a really good life as a nymph. But it's just the start. The resurrection opens up something far bigger, something that goes beyond individual moral choices into hope that is, as Will put it, cosmic.
Paul himself said it plainly. If there's no resurrection, then eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.
What Does Easter Mean to You?
Dan finished with a question that's worth thinking about. "What if it's true? What are you going to do?"
This isn't a question you can stay neutral on forever. As Dan said, you've got to dismiss it or accept it. The evidence is there. The eyewitnesses numbered in the hundreds. The accounts were written by people who recorded uncomfortable details rather than convenient ones.
And if it is true, everything changes. Death loses its power. This life becomes a glimpse of something much bigger. Our priorities shift from more wealth and more earthly things to, as Dan put it, more resurrected friends in heaven with us.
Something to Try This Week
Read the evidence for yourself. Dan recommended Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ and The Case for Easter. Both are accessible, evidence-based, and written by someone who started as a sceptic.
Ask the honest question. Not "do I believe this?" but "what if it's true?" Sit with that for a day or two and see where it takes you.
Look for where your expectations might be too small. The disciples on the Emmaus road missed Jesus because they were locked into what they thought God should do. Where might you be doing the same?
Talk to someone who has experienced it. As Will said, there are plenty of people whose lives have been genuinely transformed. Seek them out. Get in touch with Crowd Church if you don't know where to start.
Pray a simple prayer. Even if it feels uncertain, try this: "God, if this is true, show me." Dan's conviction is that Jesus is alive. The invitation is to find out for yourself.
The Easter story isn't a fable with a nice moral at the end. It's either the most important event in human history, or it isn't. But it's too big a question to just scroll past. As Dan put it, "He's alive. Get to know this Jesus, because He's alive."
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[00:05] Will: Good evening, you wonderful people, and happy Easter to you. He is risen.
[00:10] Dan: He's risen indeed.
[00:11] Anna: He is risen indeed.
[00:13] Will: We practiced that and everything. So I grew up in a house on Easter morning where my dad would come in, throw the curtains wide, and say, he is risen. And the answer was, he is risen indeed. but, yeah, we come from mixed backgrounds.
[00:26] Anna: Yeah, like me and Dan, me and Dan didn't come from houses which started the day like that, I'm afraid.
[00:29] Will: No. But a very happy Easter to you, wherever you're, listening, dialling in from. And, if you're watching this on catch-up, then it's probably not Easter day, but, welcome anyway. Lovely to see you. so this is Crowd Church. we are an online church, and we're, I'm joined— my name is Will. I'm joined this evening by, by Anna. Say hello, Anna.
[00:57] Anna: Hello everyone, it's good to be here tonight.
[01:00] Will: And we have got the wonderful Dan who is speaking to us this evening, who we'll come on to in a minute. So Crowd Church, if you've not been part of it before, is, we have a talk, posing questions, please put questions, conversation in, in the chat, any, any points that you want to make, even as Dan is speaking. We're going to have then Conversation Street afterwards where we will chat further about the, the contents of what's been said. And then after about 50 minutes, we're going to join in a live lounge. You are very welcome to come on the Google Meet. The link will go in the chat later to just connect further. So please feel free to, yeah, as I said, comment in the chat and join us. So Anna, what was your, what was your day like? It started quite early.
[01:50] Anna: It was good. Yeah, it started early. We did Easter eggs quite early. I've Got an 11-year-old boy, so he was up bright and early waiting for his chocolate, because that's obviously the main point of Easter.
[02:02] Will: You made him hungry.
[02:03] Anna: Yeah, he did do an Easter egg hunt, and yeah, I was out of the door quite early this morning actually because I was part of a gospel choir this morning in our local church. So yeah, I was out early for a sound check at like half 8, so it was an early start. Then we came home for a roast, lots of family games this afternoon. Got my mum and dad staying, they might even be watching now on the live feed. If we're lucky. Yeah, so it's been a good day. How was yours?
[02:29] Will: Fantastic. Yeah, yeah, very good. Similarly, quite early, early up out the door, taking my parents over to my aunt's house on the Wirral where we managed to get to her church and had a lovely, lovely meal around at hers and also an Easter egg hunt after lunch. There was one cream egg that went missing. I did try to kind of count them all out and try to remember where I hid them all, but one remains somewhere in the house.
[02:55] Anna: It'll be like a surprise. Prize in a few weeks' time.
[02:57] Will: Or it'll be eaten by ants. Yeah, discovered in July, just a bit of foil. A little bit rusty. That's, that's part of Easter egg hunts really, isn't it? So yeah, hope you've had a lovely Easter wherever you're celebrating. Why don't you put in the chat what you've done today and how you've celebrated Easter? We do get people joining from all over the world and traditions are different. In fact, I learned— I was— we were talking a bit about Easter Bunny and things like, how on earth I think one of the kids asked, what is it with, with a bunny and eggs? So I, and I didn't know this, but apparently that, that, that started in Germany, that whole tradition that there was a, a spring hare that laid coloured eggs in bonnets. I mean, crazy.
[03:42] Anna: Yeah, but I don't think that— maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think they did like originally chocolate eggs because I remember going on a school exchange. This is going a bit off the point now, but when I was about 14, I went on a school exchange and I stayed there over the Easter holidays because I distinctly remember we had to paint loads of, you know, just like regular kind of hen's eggs. Yeah, loads of them, and we had to paint them all, and that's what they did, and that was kind of the German tradition. Yeah, and I think it was more of a kind of decorated eggs rather than chocolate eggs originally. Yeah, it's probably capitalism that's made them chocolate. I don't know, I don't know. Someone who knows what they're talking about, tell us.
[04:16] Will: That's totally right. Yeah, but yes, so something else I learned, that traditionally in the traditional church— I wouldn't necessarily call Crowd Church traditional church, but you couldn't eat eggs in Holy Week. So all the eggs that were laid in Holy Week, you'd collect together and you would paint.
[04:33] Anna: Oh, that makes sense.
[04:34] Will: And then, like, you know, they're there. So whether they were ready, whether you could actually eat them by Easter Day or not, I would just have them painted. But I think that's where the tradition started. Anyway, without further ado, so we've talked a lot about traditions of Easter, but we've got Dan with us, and he's going to tell us actually a bit more about Easter, about the real Easter. So stay tuned. Please, as I said, put questions, comments in the chat, and we'll see you in a little while for Conversation Street. Dan, over to you.
[05:04] Dan: Well, thank you, Will. Yeah, so there are lots of traditions, aren't there? But today I want to talk about history, not just a story. And let me explain. I believe, and we'll unpack this later, but Easter is a historical account of Jesus of Nazareth. Being crucified, as we heard last week, and then rising from the dead. A miracle in history. If you know anything about the Bible or you listen to talks before on Crowd, then miracles are talked about all the time. Miracles like the feeding of the 5,000, healing the sick. You've probably heard us talk of times where God has healed us here in this room, provided for us, spoken to us. All amazing things, but I wonder if you hear them and often just store them in your memory as stories or fables. That was back then. That's just their take on things. Coincidence. I can believe good things of Christianity without the factual impossibilities. Well, can you? Today I'm talking about Easter. A miracle. This man Jesus was killed and 3 days later he rose from the dead. No metaphor, no illustration, not an old legend. A straight-up miracle. An impossibility in the natural world. He was sealed in a tomb, then he was out. He spoke, he ate with others, many witnesses, and then he ascends to heaven. So, wow, you know, that's a, that's a huge thing, isn't it? Let's take a look at the why and the what and the how of all of this. So All of the four Gospels talk about the resurrection of Jesus. It's so high up in their priority of memories that it needed to be recorded. And in all accounts, the first people to see Jesus, discover the missing tomb, are women. We've got Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and different women in the different accounts. And why is this important? Well, this is a time when a woman's testimony wasn't valued. It was deemed unacceptable in a court of law. So if you're going to start a religion or a movement on this pivotal, pivotal point, you're probably going to get some men really recording this, these first sightings. But I believe recording that the women— oh, that's the time delay. but I believe that women were the first to see the risen Jesus. Actually, the fact that women were the first to see recorded gives this more credibility. It shows that they, the Gospel writers, recorded what actually happened, not just the story they wanted to tell, not just a story that would give them more credibility. And I mentioned that the differing counts also have different records of the actual women that were there. And again, if you're going to write this down, all these facts then, and how they're recorded, then, you're going to write them down, you sort of get all your stories straight. Like if you were, you know, committing a crime and you have a little chat between each other, you get the names the same. So this gives it, I feel, much more credibility in all these reports. So before I do go any further, so I'm just going to take some little bits here. I really recommend a book if you want to go into more detail. It's a book by a journalist called Lee Strobel. He wrote an amazing book called The Case for Christ, great book looking at all the evidence for Christ. And he was so convinced that he became a Christian after writing it. And, some of that book and a little extra he's put into a newer book called The Case for Easter, and it's well worth a read, or 2 hours 48 minutes if you listen to the audiobook. I get most of my knowledge through audiobooks as I'm driving around through the day. So, back to my brief summary of things. We have the women discovering that Jesus isn't in the tomb. Let's read one of the accounts. This is chapter 28 of Matthew. Now, after the Sabbath, toward the Dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb. And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow. And for fear of him, the guards trembled and became like dead men. But the angel said to the women, 'Do not be afraid.' For I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. He is not here; he has risen.' And he said, 'Come, see the place where he lay. Then go quickly and tell the disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold, he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you.' So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy and ran to tell his disciples. And behold, Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him. And Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me." What an amazing few sentences. For those of you who have listened to the talk that I did at Christmas, there's some more "do not be afraid" moments. An angel with appearance of lightning: "Don't be afraid." You can have a search and have a listen. I love that. I love that. Don't be afraid. So God, when God breaks into our lives, sometimes it's just too much for these earthly eyes to grasp and to behold. We've got an angel, we've got the amazing dedicated women, we've got guards who are just knocked out. Then off the women run to tell this amazing news. And then there's this, this, this is one bit where I'm sure Matthew and the translations of the Bible have just perhaps put a very short account of history. Greetings. Jesus just says greetings. I personally think perhaps there was a few more words that went there. What do you think? When they saw the risen Jesus and worshipped him. Then another encounter with the risen Jesus is recorded, this time in Luke's Gospel. Two of the disciples had visited the empty tomb They were then walking to a town called Emmaus, discussing the events of the last few hours and days. They'd heard the news that the tomb was empty and were off for a walk. And the place they're walking to can maybe tell us something about what they were thinking. Back then, if you talked to someone about Emmaus, the first thing you'd think about was the last big battle the Jewish people, the Maccabees, they led a revolt against the Greek army and won their It's a bit like talking to an American and mentioning Pearl Harbor, or talking to your granddad and mentioning the Somme. Immediately, wars and events would spring to mind. And often in the Bible, these facts that are mentioned are put there for a reason. And I think it's added here to show us that these disciples were perhaps thinking, "This is what we thought Jesus was going to do. There would be another battle. He was the Son of God, and finally Jerusalem will be freed." And the Romans defeated, their heads were focused on what they thought should have happened. Do you ever have times when you think God should have worked in a different way? This can't be right, because if it was, God would have sorted things by now. He would have done it this way with that in mind. These disciples are walking along and Jesus appears next to them. So, let's read in Luke 24. Luke 24:13. That very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about 7 miles from Jerusalem. They were talking with each other about all these things that had happened. While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. But their eyes were kept from recognizing him. And he said to them, "What is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk?" And they stood still, looking sad. Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered him, "Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem that does not know the things that have happened there in these days?" And he said to them, "What things?" And they said to him, "Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to and condemned him to death and crucified him." But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning, and when they did not find his body, they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels who said that he was alive. Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said. But him they did not see. And he said to them, O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into glory? And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. So they drew near to the village to which they were going. He acted as if he was going farther, but they urged him strongly, saying, "Stay with us, for it is toward evening and the day is now far spent." So he went in to stay with them. When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed it and broke it and gave it to them. And their eyes were opened, and they recognised him, and he vanished from their sight. They said to each other, "Did not our hearts burn within us when he talked to us on the road?" while he opened up the Scriptures. And they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem. Has your head ever been in a place where you've missed Jesus? You've heard God's Word in the past, you've seen his wonders in your own life, but somehow now you can't quite work out what's going on with his current situation. These guys that have been around with Jesus for 3 years every day and didn't recognise him. Sometimes God closes our eyes. Sometimes we blink our own eyes, thinking, as I've said before, that we talked about last week, that we have in our mind how God is going to do things. But then they recognised Him. Then their friend, their leader, Rabbi Jesus, and immediately they went back to Jerusalem, back along the Emmaus Road, but the other direction, back to the other disciples. The resurrection was a pivotal event, not just because of the miraculous nature of it, because of what it means to us. And it isn't just talked about in the Gospels, it's recorded in multiple books of the Bible. And perhaps one of the main passages is when Paul talks about it in writing to the Corinthian church. In chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians, he says this: For I delivered to you As of first importance, what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the Twelve, then he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all As to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. So Paul summarizes some of the encounters with Jesus that others had. He mentions Cephas, and this is Simon, that was another name for Simon. And 500 others. And he even says, if you don't believe me, loads of them are still alive, go and ask them. Well, you know, I paraphrase that, but that's what he's saying. And some were already believers, and there was also James, the brother of Jesus. He gets a special mention, because he'd been a bit of a skeptic. We heard earlier on in the Gospels that they, you know, what's my brother doing? But when he saw his brother back from the dead, everything changed for him. Jesus was seen alive by many people for 40 days after rising from the dead. Why does this miracle change things? Jesus, before the crucifixion, talked about being born again. He said, "The only way to come to the kingdom of heaven is to be born again." To die to our old self and to be raised in Christ. Well, when Jesus died and rose again, he was a literal living testimony that we can be made new. Let me share a story. I was watching a documentary with my daughter a few weeks ago about insects, and this particular episode was about the dragonfly. Anyone know the life cycle of a dragonfly? I didn't know it. No idea. I had no idea. I'd seen, you know, seen plenty of dragonflies around, and they're amazing, aren't they? They're like real-life quadcopters, I think. In the UK, I think they're probably one of the biggest insects we have. If you're watching from other parts of the world, or Australia, you can probably hear the comments, "That's not a bug, can't even kill you!" You know, but in the UK, pretty impressive. Amazing colours, speeding around, and they can just hover. So back to the life cycle. These insects, they start their life out underwater, and they're small nymphs, and they're pretty unassuming black nymphs that swim around in the water, gradually growing, often shedding their outer layers and slowly getting bigger. For up to 2 years, they're just floating around underwater, hidden from the world above, hidden from the air. Then one day, they climb up some kind of river plant or pond growth and out of the water. And this is where things start to get interesting. This nymph sheds its dark skin and its amazing coloured blob of a creature sort of emerges, these colours that have never been seen before. It takes its first ever breath. Yeah, we're talking 2 minutes here. 2 years underwater, and then within minutes it's this coloured blob on a stalk taking a breath. But it's still not finished, can't fly. And these wings roll out, and apparently they're inflated. That's what the documentary said. It's on the stalk, beautiful created wings that are inflated, and the sun's drying them. And then within an hour, it flies off transformed. It's the same creature that lived under the water, but it's different. It's the same, but it can breathe. It's the same, but it can fly. And why do I tell you this story? It's of the dragonfly. Well, I watched this documentary, and ever since I've been thinking about it. That nymph has the same DNA as the dragonfly. It's the same but different. Can I say it had a new life? It received breath. And as I'm reading more of the Bible and listening to much brainier people than me that can speak Greek and Hebrew, I've learned that the word in Hebrew for breath is the same as spirit. God breathes into us life. He breathed into Adam and Eve. And He left us the Holy Spirit. He's come to give us life. Jesus died on the cross and rose again. He conquered death. In John's Gospel, it says, "I came to give you life, and life in all its fullness." Let's read a bit more of the Corinthians and what Paul goes on to say. I'm going to jump ahead a bit. I'm going to read from The Message translation. I find The Message translation helps me understand the verses and passages of the Bible in a way that shows me the ideas and meaning behind some of the more complex theology. It's a paraphrase, it's not an exact translation, so we can't go into each word, but it really helps my brain to understand what Paul is trying to get across in his message. So, starting at verse 35. Some skeptic is sure to ask, "Show me how resurrection works. Give me a diagram, draw me a picture. What does this resurrection body look like?" If you look at this question closely, you realise how absurd it is. There are no diagrams for this kind of thing. Do not have a parallel experience in gardening. We do have a parallel experience in gardening. You plant a dead seed, soon there's a flourishing plant. There's no visual likeness between seed and plant. You can never guess what tomato would look like by looking at the tomato seed. What we plant in the soil and what grows out of it don't look anything alike. The dead body that we bury in the ground and the resurrection body that comes from it will be dramatically different. You'll notice that the varieties of bodies are stunning. Just as there are different kinds of seeds, there's also different kinds of bodies—humans, animals, fish, etc.—unprecedented in its form. You get a hint at the diversity of resurrection glory by looking at the diversity of bodies Not only on earth, but in the skies, in the sun, moon, stars, all these varieties of beauty and brightness. And we're only looking at pre-resurrection seeds. Who can imagine what the resurrection plants will be like? This image of planting a dead seed and raising a live plant is a mere sketch at best, but perhaps it will be— it will help in approaching the mystery of the resurrection. Only if you keep it in mind that when we're raised, we're raised for good, alive forever. The corpse that's planted is no beauty, but when it's raised, it's glorious. Put in the ground weak, it comes up powerful. The seed is natural, the seed grown is supernatural. Same seed, same body, but what a difference from when it goes down in physical mortality to when it's raised up in spiritual immortality. Isn't that great? Paul talks about a seed, like I talked about the dragonfly. The seed dies when in the ground, but when woken up, it grows. It's much stronger. It's a new creation. It's still from that seed. It's not a new thing, but it is a new thing. It has some of its original design, its essence, perhaps its DNA, but now it's got its potential. Christ died and rose that we can have life in Christ. Getting out of the Message paraphrase now and into the English Standard Version, which is what we often use in Crowd, it says this in verse 42: So it is with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it's raised in power. It's sown in a natural body, it's raised a spiritual body. If there's a natural body, then there is also a spiritual body. There's a natural body and a spiritual body, and this natural body is not fit for heaven. We need to be transformed into the spiritual body for heaven. Paul says later we'll be changed in the twinkling of an eye. But Jesus was raised When Jesus was raised, he took off that corruptible body and he looked the same, but death no longer had power over him. And because of this death, his death, it no longer has power over us. Jesus was the same man. The disciples spoke to him, they ate with him. He wasn't a ghost or an apparition. A ghost can't eat. An apparition or hallucination appears to one person at a time, not different people altogether. Jesus was physical. You may have heard, when you've heard the Easter story before, about Thomas' words saying, "Unless I see the marks in his hands and feet and his side, I won't believe." Often called Doubting Thomas, and I think that's perhaps a bit unfair because if I was there, I think I'd want to check. I want to check that this was the Jesus I knew. And when Jesus saw him, He said, "Thomas, come and put your hands here. Touch Me where the nails were." There's two things that I want to pick up on here. Firstly, when Thomas said, "I won't believe until He wasn't with Jesus," "I won't believe until I see Him," he wasn't actually with Jesus. He was with some of the other disciples who were recounting their stories of seeing Jesus and then 8 days later, Thomas comes and he says to him, 'Put your hands here.' Jesus knew what Thomas had said without being with him, and this was, I think, part of the resurrected Jesus. He and the Father are one, and yes, him and the Father have always been one, but something happened in that resurrected that form, and he called Thomas and said, "Come and see." Jesus, God our Father, knows what we need. And secondly, I was struck by what Dave Connolly said a few weeks ago about scars, that they sort of remind us of some of the events that we've had in the past. And I thought, Jesus, he carried those scars as a reminder of what had happened, what he'd been through. He was raised from the dead. It was miraculous. His back was torn. He probably lost most of his blood when he's raised from the dead. That miracle happened. God, of course, could have healed every part of him and healed those, those scars as well. one of the prophets Isaiah hundreds of years before. He said, "By His stripes we are healed." Those scars bear the testimony of those stripes. When I read the passage earlier, you may have noted that Jesus appeared to them, and after His resurrection, this happened multiple times. He was just there. And I don't know, and I don't understand this, but just to say that this risen Jesus broke the power of sin and death and the power of natural that was upon Him. He also seems to pray, you know, in the past He broke some of the natural laws, didn't He? He walked on water. But it happened so much more after rising from the dead. Many times He just appeared to those around Him. I'd love to know where He was when He wasn't with those that recorded these encounters. Perhaps He was spending time just with, you know, with His Father. I don't know. What does Easter mean For us? Well, we've just seen a little bit. It's a massive question. But I believe there's too much evidence to ignore this miracle. What's it going to mean to you? One thing is for sure, the power of death was broken. Sin was defeated. Going back again to Paul in 1 Corinthians, and we haven't enough time to read all of it, but I'd encourage you to read it. Paul gets excited. He proclaims, "Death is swallowed up in victory." O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting? Quoting some of Isaiah the prophet, he will swallow up death forever, and the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces. If we truly know that death has been beaten, then what does it mean for us, this life on earth? What does it mean for our priorities? If this life is just a glimpse of life with God, if this life is a struggle but eternity is the goal, then where's our focus? Where is my focus? Is it more wealth, more earthly things, or is it more heavenly reward, more resurrected friends in heaven with us? Does it make it easier that life can be less about us and more about others? Oh God, thank you for your ultimate sacrifice. Thank you for a transformed life, for life after death. Thank you for Easter.
[29:55] Will: Oh man, oh man, I mean, how exciting it is, isn't it? It's like those glimpses of just something other. Yeah, really, that really caught my imagination. Imagine being that little nymph and going, I'm going to be a dragonfly one day, because they've got no concept of it. And And like the guys on Emmaus, they didn't really have the concept of what this meant and what this— what, what they could be as a result. It was so— they were kind of locked into what they understood, which was we live, we die, that's it. and there's, there's no kind of legacy beyond that. And yet here was Jesus just kind of just giving them a glimpse of like, there is so much more. How exciting, how exciting.
[30:49] Anna: Yeah, there was so much in that talk, Dan. Thank you so much for that. I just love the question that you finished on, like, what does Easter mean to you? And I think that is something that, yeah, we can all ask, whether we're searching and looking into Christianity for the first time, whether we've been Christians for years and years like some of us around this table have. I just feel like That's something we can all take away and mull over, and like, certainly something I'll take away and continue to think about over the next few days.
[31:18] Dan: It's just too big a question, isn't it, to dismiss? It's too big an event. Yeah. If you believe it's true, and I have no evidence to say it's not true, you know, there's more evidence that it happened, what are you going to do about it? What am I going to continue to do about it?
[31:38] Anna: And how's it What does it mean for your life, and how does it potentially change your life?
[31:42] Will: Yeah, yeah, it's good questions to sit with, really. Absolutely. And I feel like another thing that really struck me from, from your talk, Dan, was that this, this issue of expectation, that clearly that his followers were not expecting this end. The guys on the mess were not expecting this end. They, they probably had— they had a whole load of other scenarios that might work out, but this they did not expect. Curiously, in the Easter story, the authorities did expect it because they say in one of the accounts, it's like, oh, while he was alive, he said he was going to rise from the dead after 3 days, so put a guard on the tomb and make sure that that doesn't happen because that lie will be awful for us. And yet his followers, who also have been told several times by Jesus that he would die and rise again, are just completely floored by it. And when the women come back, they say, You're talking nonsense. I mean, literally, you're talking nonsense. I don't believe you. Yeah. And so that their expectations were just too small. And that's what I love about Easter. It just— as the tomb breaks open, it just breaks open our expectations of Jesus as well. Yeah, absolutely right.
[32:49] Anna: And yeah, I also think— I love that point that you made, Dan, about, when Thomas was asking to see the holes in his hands, and he wanted to see the scars for himself before he believed it. He wanted to see Jesus up close, right in front of him. Like, I won't I don't believe it until I see it for myself. And I also think I love that inclusion, but in, in scripture, because I feel like, aren't we all like that? Like, I need to experience God for myself. I need to meet this Jesus face to face and experience him in my own life and understand what his presence and his reality in my life actually means and get up close and personal. Otherwise it's just religion, isn't it? It's just following some rules, some ancient religion. And I feel like we all have an element of that. And I love that inclusion of that bit in the story, actually, because it's like, it's absolutely valid to be like, you know, if you're kind of thinking, oh, maybe there's something in this Christianity thing, but I need to understand it and meet God, you know, meet Jesus for myself and really see the proof, that's okay. Like, ask God to show you, because I believe he will. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[33:57] Will: I love that fact. Yeah, yeah. And also that just the whole concept of greetings, it's just like that real trim down. It's like, yeah, not only is Jesus risen from the dead, which is like, you know, there was belief in Jewish thought about resurrection, but no one had done it. Yeah, yeah. so there was, there was that, that reality because they're seeing Jesus, the physical Jesus, eating. They can touch him, you know, physical. But he's not some elevated being. He's still their friend. Yeah, he's still like, hey, I just want to hang out with you. And yeah, I'm going to appear to these 500 people and I'm going to walk with you for the next 40 days or whatever it is till he finally ascended into heaven. And I mean, that, that must properly blow, blow their mind, you know? It's like, yeah, yeah, he wrote— he rose again. He's far too great for me now. He's like, he's not gonna eat fish with me. I was like, yeah, I followed him for 3 years, but he's like He's on another level now. But now he comes right back and he just walks with them as a friend. Yeah, that's incredible.
[35:01] Dan: It's just so lovely, isn't it? It is. You just defeated death. You've been, however you want to describe it, down to Hades. Your spirit is conquered. And then, greetings. I'll just go back to my mates now.
[35:18] Will: Yeah. And, yeah.
[35:19] Dan: But I also— Go and tell everyone.
[35:21] Anna: Yeah, I know. Also, love, like, before all of that, like, the first people that he appears to are the women. And I love, you know, we're talking about a series at the moment, aren't we? We're about to go into it about, like, how Jesus is a complete revolutionary and how he, how he was so countercultural in his day. And it's just another really good example of how Jesus took kind of what people expected It just turned it upside down. Like, the Jews wanted this, like, saviour figure who was gonna, like, come victoriously, and they thought that's what they were getting on Palm Sunday. But then he was riding a donkey, and then a week later he's crucified. Like, what happened to this, like, political— great political leader who was going to lead our nation into freedom? And Jesus turns it on his head. And then again with the women, it's like, well, You know, women didn't have the same cultural standing as men in those days, and Jesus was like, no, I'm gonna put the women front and central of the story in a culture and a time zone when women weren't front and center, really. And I just love the fact that this, you know, who Jesus is, just constantly turns expectation. And yeah, it's so counterculture, isn't it? It just takes what you expect and it's so much better, like, turns it upside down.
[36:39] Will: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I heard a lovely thing actually today, just thinking about the women coming to the tomb, because the reason they're coming to the tomb is there wasn't time between the death and then the Sabbath, where you do no work, to anoint Jesus' body for burial, anoint them with like fragrant oil and sort of preserving it. And it was an act of worship, and for them it was their final act of worship. It's like, I don't understand Jesus, but it's been amazing knowing you. Thank you for all you've given, and this is my final act of gratitude is just to anoint your dead body, and then, oh man, and that beginning, that dawning of like, there's something else going on here that's completely new, must have been incredible. Yeah. Why, why the women? I mean, I'm totally with you, it's like, it's another, it's another kind of point of association, I suppose, in the story. But I wonder what would have been different if it had been Yeah, the men. If it just kind of appeared straight away to, say, the 12 or whatever, I wonder what it was about the, the women's testimony. Maybe we'll never know. It's not really written down, but even in the early church, that the fact that it was the women's testimony and they were the first, I wonder. It's something you've ever thought about.
[37:55] Dan: But no, it's just, it's when sort of going into the talk, it was because I've, I've heard it before. They've said, well, you know, it was a— it wasn't a testimony that you'd— they would take as granted and then and never sort of use that to realise, well, that actually makes it more realistic because of that. Yeah. and like I was, I was trying to say, if you, if, you know, there's 3 of us and we've committed this, this crime, we get all these little details correct, don't we? And the fact it was just— yeah, yeah, these women and probably more of them than even written down there. Just like you say, yeah, grieving, but also bold. The men were off somewhere.
[38:39] Will: The women stuck around.
[38:40] Anna: I kind of love that fact though, the men, where were they? Exactly, Jesus went to the women first, where were all the men?
[38:47] Will: Hiding somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, incredible. And I think that I mean, you know, obviously resurrection is a difficult thing to get your head around, and, and so many, so many people, they get to that point of like, well, yeah, and Jesus seems a great guy and seems great, great teaching to follow, but resurrection, really? And again, I really like your analogy of the nymph there, that it's really hard to grasp something so beyond what our reality— that we're so bound up in our physical self-centered reality at times. And, and what this story begins to bring, it just breaks that open, begins to give us a glimpse. And you did— the Corinthians passage does it brilliantly. Yeah, that's just a little foretaste. There's so much more. What would a resurrected plant look like? Yeah, let alone— yeah, I love that. I love—
[39:42] Dan: that's, that's why I quite enjoy reading The Message, because you just get that little bit of sort of excitement in there, don't you? Well, this is, this is what this seed has happened, this is just a natural seed. What's a resurrected seed look like?
[39:57] Will: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, if you're struggling with that whole how can someone come back to life, just, I don't know, maybe just test God out and say, give me that glimpse of something so much beyond my experience and my earthly knowledge and my natural assumptions. Because actually, this whole story is full of that, isn't it? It's full of those little instances that just kind of break open our assumptions and our expectations.
[40:24] Anna: This is an interesting question that's just come through on the feed, actually. So why do you think, so many people are willing today to accept, like, Christian values and culture or ideas, but not the Christian— actual core Christian facts about the resurrection that we've discussed tonight? Like, why is it that people like that idea of, you know, cultural Christianity or its values, like, oh yeah, love each other There's a question on the screen now. but yeah, like, don't necessarily accept the whole resurrection thing as Dan outlined it tonight. Dan, that was a good pass.
[41:01] Dan: I first answer would be it's the easy way to do it, isn't it? Like I said at the beginning, we can— I think we can store lots of things of the Bible as fables. We can read it and go 'Yeah, that's just history. I don't really have to take that in.' And we can take lots of the bits that are easier to do, the good bits.
[41:22] Anna: Be nice to people. Be nice to people. I mean, that's not that easy. Not everyone, but yeah, generally.
[41:27] Dan: Yeah, help your neighbour out. Yeah. But at some point we've got to decide, are we going to take the tricky bits? On my Facebook feed today has been full of, you know, got Christians putting about Easter Lots of political parties now put in things like, 'He is risen.' Like, do you know what you've just put there? Do you know? You've just put there a miracle. It's not some platitude. You've just said a man was dead and he rose again. You've put that on your party. Do we really take it? Yeah. Do we really take that in? And perhaps Perhaps they don't, but I just think it's great. That is one of the things about this so-called, you know, Matt talked to the great talk about, sort of the, what do you call it, the political Christianity, Christian nationalism.
[42:22] Anna: Really?
[42:23] Dan: Yes, there's lots of things that aren't great about it, but it does mean that a lot of these things invade our and media and stuff, this, he is risen, just gets plastered everywhere. And like, what are you gonna do?
[42:39] Anna: But at the same time, it's like that thing of like just making it a nice thing to say, or like a platitude, or just like Jesus set up some nice rules to live by. Like, they make us nicer people and, you know, more generous and be kind and don't hurt others. And all of those things, like, don't get me wrong, none of us would disagree with any of that. But if it's just about being a good person, then why do you need the cross or the resurrection at all? Like, as soon as you take that resurrection out of the Easter story, actually you've taken all the power away. Yeah, like, if you haven't conquered sin and death, yeah, what's the point? Like, I don't need God to just be like an all right person.
[43:17] Dan: I can do that on my own. Paul later says, he says, if there's no resurrection, then eat and drink, for tomorrow we die. Yeah, that's it. There's no, there's no point unless there's no hope, is there?
[43:30] Will: There's like And I mean, to take you back to the dragonfly example, if you've just lived a really good life as a nymph, you're kind to all the other nymphs and you kind of made space for them and you lived a life of service, you know, that would be amazing. If you just follow Jesus' teaching, yeah, that would absolutely transform the world. But it's just the start, it's just the little beginning. And when you get the hope then of eternity and proper kind of power that can change whole systems and, and all the politics. It goes so much beyond our individual kind of choices into something, well, cosmic, really. I mean, it's just— and again, it's really hard to get your head around it unless you've tasted a bit of it. And even then, it's like, well, there's— yes, so much more. But I think that, that, that hope, because however much you try to follow a good set of teaching, there's still an awful lot of rubbish and darkness that you say, well, what about that? Yeah, how do you deal with that? And, and, and I don't think you can read the Gospels seriously without seeing those kind of, those little pointers that Jesus is always pointing to something far more than just the, the moral teaching. But I think you're right, it's an easier position to take, isn't it? because because we don't want to— I don't know, we don't want to sound weird and say, well, people can't rise from the dead. Of course they can. And it's like, as you say, you get into some of the more radical bits, that is the essence.
[45:03] Anna: Yeah, but also harder to start. It's kind of— it's kind of hard to get your head around. But then also, who wants a God who fits into a nice little box that is of our own human making? If he's that small, then I just kind of think, yeah, but I don't I want a small God who's actually not much more powerful or impressive than I am. Yeah, I want a God who is, you know, massive and has created the world and is able to do anything. Like, what's the point really? We may as well all just go home. Like, I, I don't know, I, I kind of think it's challenging, but actually, yeah, faith is challenging, but if it's, if it's not, you know, all-powerful, then what is the point? Like, I just— yeah. I don't know. I think that's true. I don't want a faith that's like, oh, just like, yeah, it's kind of a fable, but it has a good moral to it.
[45:56] Will: Yeah. And, you know, to be honest, it's much harder with the distance of time and I mean, the cultural, the scientific development of the past 2,000 years. It's much harder to grasp. Yeah. But again, thinking back to, you mentioned this, those— there were, there were people, there were eyewitnesses. People could go, they could contact them, like a lot of eyewitnesses, tell me your story. And there would be— and those stories corroborated each other because they were all there. And, and, and I, I think probably early on after Jesus, you know, early church, it wasn't such a big deal. It's like, well, of course Jesus rose from the dead because like there's all these people that saw it. It wasn't just like one or two people. And for us looking back, it's like, oh yes, but for them it was like, it was kind of almost taken for granted. Like, yeah, of course.
[46:49] Anna: And it's almost too easy to kind of put it down to like, oh, some made-up story now. But actually, if you look at the facts and all the historical accounts and how many people he appeared to and how many instances and how it's all recorded by multiple historians and stuff, like it's not that easy to dismiss.
[47:06] Dan: If you really look into the facts. I'd really recommend that, that book, both The Case for Christ and The Case for Easter, because it's brilliant. It looks at, it looks at all those accounts and other teachings around, you know, that time and stuff. Yeah, it's well worth if you, if you're wondering about all this. Yeah, yeah.
[47:23] Anna: And you kind of picked up on it as well in, your talk down when you were saying, was it like Paul that was saying, oh well, if you don't believe what I'm saying, go down the road and ask so-and-so and so-and-so. And it's Yeah, it's kind of implicit there in the Bible that there was a lot of eyewitnesses, and yeah, you couldn't just be making it up.
[47:42] Will: No. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, we're in a different age, but that's still true, isn't it? But there's still plenty of eyewitness— I mean, not so much, but certainly kind of testimony of those that have met with Jesus and seen, got this glimpse of like this complete transformation of way beyond their expectation of what life could be. and you know, if, if that's of interest, seek them out. Yeah, get in touch with Crowd Church. Yeah, yeah. That they're— although we didn't walk physically on the planet with Jesus, you know, there's plenty, plenty of testimony of real, real transformation. Anything else in the comments, Anna? not really.
[48:22] Anna: That's come through, I don't think. Not that I can spot. but yeah, any final thoughts from you, Dan?
[48:32] Dan: no, I think just if you've thought about anything this Easter and you thought, well, what if it is true? Then what if it's true? What if it's true? What are you going to do? Yeah, you've got to make a decision. You've got to dismiss it or you've got to accept it. and we just encourage you to get, get to know this Jesus because he's alive. There's nothing Yeah, he's alive.
[49:01] Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think for me, just, you know, if you're, if you're feeling, even as we've been talking, as you've been listening, if you're very feeling very limited in your expectation, maybe that's limited by your experience to this point, or, or rationality, or, or learning, or whatever it is. you know, if you read the accounts of Jesus, he was constantly challenging those expectations and pushing those boundaries. And he wants to do that with each of us now, today, exactly the same. So if you've got a limit, that your expectations are too small, maybe just explore, maybe even pray, maybe even say, God, just show more of yourself. What is this amazing dragonfly idea that maybe you want to to begin to speak to me, because God will answer that prayer. And every time, I believe. Yeah. Yeah, it's a totally transformational story, isn't it?
[50:02] Anna: It's, yeah, it's supernatural, and it will completely change your life if you can go away, have a look at the facts, and allow that to, yeah, to change your life as well. Ellis has put in the comments, I think the fact that the Bible isn't just a collection of fables is a really great point. It can be so easy to forget or overlook that. And I think, yeah, that's so true. It's so easy to just be like, oh yeah, we've all heard the Easter story before, the cross, this, that, the other happens. And even as Christians, like, you know, you can get very familiar with the story, can't you? And forget that it's completely life-changing at its core, that there's this, like, world-changing, you know, supernatural, kind of death to life, resurrection power at the center of it. And yeah, that's kind of what we're here for.
[50:56] Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh man, oh man. Thank you so much, Dan. That was just, yeah, fantastic, exploding the Easter story again for us. As you say, it becomes very familiar, but that was, that was wonderful. if anything's just touched you as you've been listening to this on recording or on the live stream, check out Crowd Church. there's lots, lots of other talks on there that you can, you can access There's some of those testimonies that we were talking about in What's the Story. We have a small group that meets virtually during the week. Lots of ways to get in touch and get involved. We're going to move now to the live lounge this evening, so that link, it's a Google Meet, going in the chat. If you want to just dial in, say hi, wish each other happy Easter, come and chat, that'll be 5-10 minutes, just a bit of connection following this evening. And we're here next Sunday, every Sunday evening, 7 o'clock on the live stream. You are most welcome. So thank you again, Anna. Thank you, Dan, for a really rich conversation. And happy Easter all, and see you soon. God bless. Bye-bye
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