When Busy Becomes a Hiding Place
There's a version of busy that everyone can see. The packed calendar, the unanswered messages, the inbox you've stopped pretending you'll catch up on. And then there's the other kind. The quieter, more respectable busy. The one you reach for when there's something you don't want to face — a difficult conversation, a prompt you can't quite explain to anyone else, a moment where you sense you should stop and you really, really don't want to.
This week at Crowd, Dan Orange asked if we have heard the "are you a Mary or a Martha?" framing before? Be more Mary. Sit at Jesus' feet. Stop running around. Dan agreed there's truth in that — but only a slice of it. The fuller picture, he suggested, is that Martha wasn't wrong to serve. She was hiding behind serving. And once you've seen that, it's hard to unsee in yourself.
Why Martha Didn't Have a Microwave
The story sits in Luke chapter 10. Jesus arrives at the village. A woman named Martha welcomes Him into her house. Her sister Mary sits at His feet to listen. Martha — distracted with much serving, the text says — eventually loses patience and asks Jesus to tell Mary to come and help.
It's easy to read that and assume Martha's the villain. But notice what she's actually doing. She's running her household. She's feeding a travelling rabbi and his friends. There's no microwave, no takeaway, no ordering food in. The job had to be done, and Martha was the one who could do it.
Dan made a quiet point that's worth slowing down for. Helping is a gift. Paul lists it in 1 Corinthians 12, right alongside apostles, prophets, teachers, miracles, healing. Helping. He told a story from years ago, before he could quite believe it himself. He was setting out chairs at church when Dave Connolly came up to him and said, "you have the gift of helps." Dan's honest reaction at the time was something like, isn't that a bit of a lame gift compared to all the others? He's not even sure he wanted it.
Years later, he'd realised something less comfortable about it. The gift was real. The way he'd been using it sometimes wasn't.
"I've used the gift of helps to hide from doing things I needed to do."
The busyness wasn't the problem. The hiding was.
Martha, Martha — Tender, Not Telling Off
When Jesus answers Martha, He says her name twice. Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things. Dan paused on that doubling. In the Hebrew Bible, when a name gets repeated, something is being signalled. It isn't a ticking off. It's tenderness. It's love getting your full attention.
Anna picked this up beautifully in Conversation Street. She admitted she'd often heard this story read in a slightly stern voice — Anna, Anna, come on now, the way her dad would talk when she was in trouble. And actually, that's not the tone at all. The tone is, I really want your attention here because I love you. Jesus isn't trying to shame Martha out of serving. He's calling her closer because He cares.
It's a small thing and it changes the whole passage. The Jesus who said this isn't the disappointed parent at the end of a long day. He's the friend gently saying your name twice because He doesn't want you to miss what's right in front of you.
Three Feet, Three Lessons
Dan's whole talk was anchored in feet, which sounds strange until you see it laid out.
Mary at Jesus' feet, listening. First time we meet her, she's sitting in front of the rabbi, learning. Dan was honest that he'd carried a wrong picture of this for years — Mary as the passive woman in the corner, the men doing the serious thinking. That was never the scene. To sit at someone's feet, in that culture, was to be a serious student. When Paul wanted to describe his own training, he said he was taught "at the feet of Gamaliel," one of the great teachers of his day. Mary wasn't being decorative. She was learning.
Mary at Jesus' feet, worshipping. A while later, Mary turns up again — this time with an alabaster jar of expensive perfume. She breaks it open and pours it over Jesus' feet, wiping them with her hair. Some of the disciples grumble about the cost. Jesus shuts that down. Leave her alone. The poor you will always have with you, but me — not always. Some things are time-sensitive. Some prompts have a window. Mary felt the moment and moved.
Jesus at the disciples' feet, serving. Then at the Last Supper, in John 13, Jesus takes a towel and washes His friends' feet. Then He tells them to do the same for one another. There's no exception clause. No "this bit's for the helpers and that bit's for the leaders." Service, Dan said, is for everyone.
Learn at His feet. Worship at His feet. Serve at the feet of others.
Martha Was Busy — And She Knew Exactly Who Jesus Was
One of the most interesting moves in Dan's talk was refusing to leave Martha as the cautionary tale. Because there's a second story about Martha, and it's the one most "Mary versus Martha" sermons quietly skip.
In John 11, Martha and Mary's brother Lazarus dies. Jesus arrives too late — or so it looks. Martha is the first to run out and meet Him. Read what she says.
"Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you."
And a few lines later, when Jesus says I am the resurrection and the life, Martha replies, Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God who is coming into the world.
That's a confession of faith on the level of Peter's. From the woman we usually box up as "the busy one who needed telling off." Martha had been distracted in Luke 10, yes. But she'd also been listening. She knew who Jesus was. She'd taken His words to heart. The "are you a Mary or a Martha?" binary, Dan suggested, doesn't quite hold up. Both sisters grow. Both sisters end up closer to Jesus. They just don't get there the same way.
The Other Side of the Conversation
In Conversation Street, Ade gently held up the other side of all this. He pointed back to Matthew 7 — Jesus' picture of the wise builder and the foolish builder. The wise one hears Jesus' words and acts on them. The foolish one hears the words and doesn't.
His point landed. There's a way to use "I'm just listening" as its own excuse. I'm waiting for clarity. I'm still praying about it. I'm still sitting at His feet. Sometimes that's true. Sometimes it's hiding wearing a different coat.
So both things are true at once. We can be too busy to be present. We can also be too "spiritual" to actually move. Most of us probably swing between the two depending on the week.
Ade also flagged the cultural backdrop. There's a bit of an assumption floating around that if you're busy, you must be important. Look at how much I've got on. It's a flattering story to tell yourself, but it can quietly cover for not being very good at choosing what matters.
Where This Lands on a Monday Morning
Dan's not anti-doing. He's not anti-list. He served on the PA desk for years and was honest that even there, in the middle of a perfectly good role, he could feel God prompting him to leave the desk, walk to the back of the room, and pray with someone — and find a hundred reasons to stay put. I need to turn this mic down. I need to do this. No one will notice. He noticed.
A few things from the night to try this week.
Notice when you're hiding behind a real task. The trap isn't fake busy. It's genuine busy that just happens to keep you from the thing you sense you should do. The test is honesty, not productivity.
Treat the prompt like it has a window. Mary didn't get a second chance to anoint Jesus before He died. Some moments don't repeat. If you sense you should call someone, send the message, have the conversation, sit down for ten quiet minutes — try assuming the window is now, not later.
Let "Martha, Martha" be tender, not stern. If you've heard Jesus' voice as the disappointed parent, try reading the story again with His actual tone. He's not annoyed at you for being busy. He's saying your name twice because He doesn't want you to miss Him.
Hold listening and acting together. Matthew 7 says the wise builder hears and does. Sitting at His feet is the start of it, not the whole of it. If you've been listening for ages on the same thing, that might be a nudge.
Are You a Mary, a Martha, or You?
Dan closed by stretching the question open. Are you a Martha or a Mary, or are you you? Are you unique, created by God, born with giftings, available for what He wants to do? He read one last line from Ephesians 5, where Paul says, Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time.
Time has a way of running. Busy has a way of covering. And the invitation in this whole story isn't to a tidier diary — it's to a quieter heart that can hear its own name being said with love and actually stop for a moment.
If any of this stirred something, come and hang out with us. Sunday livestreams happen every week at 7pm UK time at crowd.church. Next Sunday, Dave Connolly picks up the thread with a talk called When You're Running on Empty — which feels like exactly where Dan left us.
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# Transcript (Plain) — 2026-05-17 — Dan Orange
> Anna Kettle (host) · Ade Birkby (co-host) · Dan Orange (main speaker)
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Anna: Good evening and welcome to Crowd Church. I'm Anna Kettle. I'm joined tonight by Ade. Ade, say hi to everyone.
Ade: Good evening.
Anna: So tonight is cool because I'm joining you from Liverpool and Ade's joining us from North Wales, so we're, we're kind of almost multi— well, multinational, aren't we?
Dan: Almost.
Anna: Yeah. So, and how are you doing, Ade?
Ade: I'm doing very well, thank you. Enjoying some wonderful sunshine in Wales-ish.
Anna: It sounds like you've got a little bit more than we have. We've had a tiny bit today, but it's not been amazing. But anyway, apparently it's getting warmer next week, so I'm excited about that. So tonight we're carrying on our series that we've been running, and Dan's gonna be joining us tonight and talking, aren't you, Dan? Tell us a little bit about what you're speaking about.
Dan: Yeah, talking about are you ever too busy to be present, too busy to be in the, in the moment. So I look forward to it.
Anna: Yeah, that sounds great. I'm, I don't know about anyone else, but I find, busyness, like, it's a hard thing. Like, we live in such a busy busy world and it's been a busy day and then it's just, yeah, it's, it's a challenge. So I'm looking forward to this one and I think it's got, we've got lots to learn about this and so I'm looking forward to digging in a minute. But just to say before we jump into the talk, if you've got any questions, thoughts, comments as we go, just comment in the chat bar. We would love to hear what you think about what Dan's saying and if you've got any questions or you want us to unpack anything. We'll go to Conversation Street at the end and have a bit of conversation and unpack some of what Dan shares. but I think we'll pass over to Dan and then come back to that. So Dan, over to you.
Dan: Well, welcome this evening. just get straight into it. So who's ever procrastinated, ever spent too much time doing that, that important task but your comfortable task, the known entity, because you didn't want to do the other thing, that other thing that may actually be better, but it's new, it's unknown, it's a little different. You're going to stick with your day job because you're busy. You've got work to do. You need to just read the next chapter of a book or scroll to the next video. Are we sometimes too busy to be present? Today, I'd like to talk about two I'll leave this out. That's fallen out. Two amazing women in the Bible and feet. Don't worry, hopefully it'll become clear. Before we go any further, let's read the main passage, and this is from the Book of Luke, chapter 10. Now as they went on their way, Jesus entered a village, and a woman named Martha welcomed him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary who sat at the Lord's feet and listened to his teaching. But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she went up to him and said, 'Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Tell her to help me.' But the Lord answered her, 'Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things. But one thing is necessary: Mary has chosen the good portion, which will not be taken away from her.' Here we are introduced to these two women, Martha and Mary. We know from— excuse me— another passage in John's Gospel that these two sisters also had a brother called Lazarus. Yes, the famous Lazarus, the one who was raised from the dead. So Martha is only mentioned on three occasions here and in John's Gospel, but just through these verses we can pick up some of who she was and what she did. A speculation that she may have been a widow, as she seems to own her own house, which was unusual at that time for a woman. And that she had enough money that she was able to support the disciples in some of their travels. Her name Martha simply means lady or mistress, so we don't get much from her, her name. Her sister Mary in this story is sometimes called Mary of Bethany. Now there are 7 Marys mentioned in the Bible. I know, I didn't realise there were so many. We've got Mary the mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, Mary of Bethany who was talking about today, Mary the mother of James, Mary wife of Clopas, who was with the cross when Jesus died, and two Marys mentioned later in the letters to the churches— Mary of Rome and Mary the mother of John Mark. It— listen, all those off, it just helps me to give me a bit of context when I'm reading the Bible and all these characters and locations, how they all fit together. And I also did learn that while studying for this talk, the that the name Mary means bitter, and some scholars think it was a common name at that time, which it seems to be because we've got 7 of them, because the Jewish people were quite bitter at being ruled over by the Romans. But back to the story, if you've ever heard it mentioned, the, the story of Mary and Martha in a Christian perspective or talks before, you may have heard people say, 'Are you a Mary or are you a Martha?' Meaning, are you one who is a doer a servant, someone who likes to be busy, or you're a Mary, someone who is prepared to listen and learn. And I've heard it said you want to be a Mary because that's the woman to follow. I want to perhaps change that simplicity of thinking. We're all different, and God has a plan for all of us. So let's think back about the passage. Martha welcomed Jesus into her house. That's a great thing to do, be a welcomer. And then she did stuff, she served. Which was the custom of the time. She sounds like an amazing host. In the next story that she's mentioned in, in the story of Lazarus, she also is the first to run to Jesus. She's a lady of action. She likes to get things done. I get the feeling she also likes to get things right as well, and just so. And this is no bad thing. didn't someone need to be preparing, getting food ready. No microwaves back then, so no ordering a takeaway and just letting someone else sort the food. It was a task that had to be done, a worthwhile activity. Could I say from this passage that it was her gifting to serve and to help? In 1 Corinthians 12:28, Paul says, 'And that God has appointed to the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various kinds of tongues. Helping is a gift. I was once helping to set some tables or chairs out for something similar, like at church, years back. And, I remember Dave Connolly came up to me and said, you have the gift of helps. And I still remember that statement now. I'd never heard of it being a gift before, and at the time I'm I'm not sure I knew what to think. Part of me was just, well, stuff needs to be done, I do it. That's always how— that's the way I was brought up. And I must admit, another part of me was thinking, I didn't know that was a gift. Isn't it a bit of a lame gift in the list? Before this, we've got, before the, like, the gift of helps, we've got healing and miracles and prophets and apostles. Isn't the gift of helps just something everyone should do. If I look around, there are lots of people here and there, and they're not helping. Perhaps my reaction, like Martha here, was a bit, I've got a gift and I'm a bit frustrated at others because they're not doing what I think should be done. Anyone else frustrated when you have to work and others don't? How about, how about the other way around? How about when you have a day off or afternoon off from work and you go to the shops or out to the gym or golfing, whatever is your fun activity, and you're there and you're thinking, what are all these people doing? Why, why aren't they at work in the middle of the week? Don't they have work to do? Looking back at yourself, coming back to the story, Jesus says this: Martha, Martha, you're anxious and troubled about many things. Whenever a name or a word is mentioned twice in the Hebrew Bible, it's done for a reason and to emphasise Jesus loved Martha. This was a tender greeting. He showed her that he cared. Martha, Martha. And he spoke, as he always does, not just to the immediate statement, but to the heart of the matter. Mary not working was not the real reason for her annoyance. Martha was anxious about many things. Have you ever done stuff so you don't need to do some other stuff? Let me explain. Have you been busy with things so that you can avoid what you really need to do? I know I have. I've used the gift of helps to hide from doing things I needed to do, to keep from, yeah, to keep the things that being done, but, like genuine, genuine needs, but in that moment they could have waited. 'in that moment they should have been second. In that moment I could have been sat at the feet of Jesus.' Are our priorities sometimes skewed or misplaced? Well, this brings me on to Mary and my second point: feet. Mary was sat at Jesus' feet. When I've read this before, I've had the wrong image in my head of Jesus' teaching and Mary just being just being a woman. A woman, I thought of that era, not as important, naive even. The Roman and Greek culture regarded women as inferior, even subhuman, and that had become part of Jewish culture too. And this is not the image here, and this is not how Jesus thought of women. This is often an image brought on by, by tradition, perhaps sometimes perpetuated by the church. By our upbringing, by, by famous religious paintings. You know the type, the men all deep in thought and the woman just there's a bit of eye candy in the image. Here Mary was at Jesus' feet, like we hear Paul say in the book of Acts when he's talking about— yeah, so she was at Jesus' feet, but it, it's not— she wasn't just sitting there. It's like, in the book of Acts Paul says This is when he's talking about how he's raised. I'm indeed a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of our fathers' law. So I had to change this view, this image in my mind, how wrong I was. Mary was there to learn. She was there to hear the voice of the Son of God. Do you know that when Jesus went out with his disciples, it wasn't always just the 12 disciples. Luke says early in the Gospel, soon afterward he went on through the cities and villages proclaiming and bringing the good news of the 12. sorry, we've got new software and it jumps around, it flows very different. So as I'm, as I'm reading my talk, I'm just losing myself a bit. and the 12 with him. But also there was women as well, women who'd been healed of evil spirits and infirmities. Mary called Magdalene, and from whom 7 demons had gone out, and Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod's household manager, and Susanna, and many others who provided for them out their means. Many others. Jesus was a revolution— he, a revolutionary. He went against the culture of the time. We've heard before in talks how God used so many women, how the first people to see him raised from the, from the dead were women, breaking the testimony sort of tradition of the time. Mary was taking every opportunity to hear from the teacher, to learn this good news. All God's gifts are not exclusive. They're all there for all. They're for rich and poor, Jew and Gentile, men and women. Now Mary's role in the house was to help, probably same as Martha's. As people had come to stay with them and eat, but she prioritised the opportunity to listen. Nothing here to say that she hadn't been helping before, been cooking, slaving away, but now was her time to listen. Sometimes we have to stop and think, where are my time priorities? Often difficult questions, and for me it's often when I'm tired, do I want to study and work out what I'm going to say at a crowd, or do you want to stay in bed a little bit better? It's important, you know. we've got other stuff to do, whether it's working on quotes or invoicing or doing work. It all needs to be done. We all have busy lives, but is our busyness of life, whatever it may be, sometimes a distraction and not always necessarily, not always a necessary not always a necessity at that moment. Yeah, I'm going to read the whole passage, but I'm not going to read the whole passage, but this, this next, the next time we meet Mary and Martha, it's mentioned in John's Gospel, and their brother, as I mentioned before, Lazarus, is dying. By the time Jesus gets to see them, it's seemingly too late and he's died. Martha is the first to come to meet Jesus. As I said before, she's a doer. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. She gets to meet Jesus and she has a conversation with her. Let's read that in John chapter 11. So when Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him with Mary. Mary remained seated in the house. Martha said to Jesus, 'Lord, if you'd been here, my brother would not have died.' 'But even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.' Jesus said to her, 'Your brother will rise again.' Martha said to him, 'I know he will be raised again in the resurrection on the last day.' Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live. And whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.' 'Do you believe this?' she said to him. 'Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God who is coming into the world. I love this passage. Martha may have been busy the last time she was mentioned, but she knew who Jesus was. She hadn't missed who he was and is. She wasn't lacking in faith. "Even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you." We don't know much about this lady, but we know that she knew Jesus. She knew who he was, perhaps from her last encounter. She took to heart Jesus' words, and she gave those things to God, those things that are causing her to be anxious. The final time we hear about Martha, she's serving. She's serving again. Jesus and the disciples are at her house, and this is where the next mention of feet comes in. Mary is at Jesus' feet again. This time, Not just listening, she breaks open an expensive vase of perfume and pours it on Jesus' feet and wipes it with her hair. Like Jesus showed his love for Martha when he spoke to her, "Martha, Martha," Mary shows her love for Jesus and anoints his feet. She worships him. Some of the disciples complain, "That's expensive, could have given that money to the poor." And Jesus knows that this is her expression of love. And says, "Leave her alone, for the poor you've always got with you, but me, not always." Why did I mention this? Some things are time-sensitive. Some things need to be done when we're prompted. Mary may have not had another chance to do this before Jesus died and ascended to heaven. It's good to serve, but we need to be present. We need to be listening to God's prompting. Perhaps some of us hide behind our activities. Lastly, I want to finish with this, the final mention of feet. At the Last Supper, Jesus washed the disciples' feet. And when he said this, and he said this in John chapter 13, 'If I then, when your Lord and Teacher have washed your feet, you also are to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example that you also should do.' 'As I have done to you. Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant's not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.' Truly, truly— there's that emphasis again— blessed are we to serve, whatever position we're in: leading, following, learning, or teaching. There's no exception to service. Let's serve, but let's not hide behind service. Let's work, but set our priorities on his word and his prompting. If God prompts you or me, what's our first reaction? Can we make an excuse with a valid thing that needs to be done, or can we let God do something through us? Are you a Martha or a Mary, or are you you? Are you unique, created by God, born with giftings, and available for God's gifts from the Son of God, gifts given by his Holy Spirit? Let's learn at his feet, worship at his feet, and serve at the feet of others.
Anna: Thanks, Dan. That was a great talk. I feel like you packed quite a lot of scripture there in quite a small talk. So yeah, thank you so much for that. yeah, I, I just feel like there was, yeah, an awful lot in there. I'm looking forward to unpacking it. Ade, what did What did you think?
Ade: I thought Dan touched on an important point that sometimes we have to listen, because also sometimes we have to act. And I've seen this exact passage be used to just justify, oh, we're just going to wait. We're just going to wait until a sign or until something happens. Now, we are called to listen, just like in Matthew 7, think about the man who built his house on the rock. He listened and he built his house on the rock and the rain came and it stayed. The man who built his house on the sand is likened to one who did, who listened but did not act. And we have to both listen and act and not use listening. I'm still listening. I'm still listening. As almost an excuse not to go and act. So I like how he mentioned sometimes we have to listen.
Anna: Yeah, yeah, it's a really good point you pick out. I really liked the whole kind of way that you unpacked it, Dan, as like a bit of an evolution in both of the girls' narratives. Like, I felt like quite often I'm the same as you. I've heard that Martha versus Mary story a lot of times in church over the year. Years. And, quite often it's like, yeah, you should be more like Mary and less like Martha, who's just doing, doing, doing and needs to sit at Jesus' feet. And that is part of that story, like, that is there, and I, and I get that point. But I think sometimes if you're, as you say, you're more of a natural helper, server, doer, like quite an active person— I, I am— it, it sort of becomes a bit polarizing. And actually, the point for me that I I really took away tonight, and I hadn't seen this before, was that both of those women, it's like an evolution in both of their lives. Like, they go from a point, one point with Jesus, and they move forwards, and both of this growth in both of them, like, from where they are at the beginning of that story to where they end up, which is, Mary goes from sitting and wanting to learn at Jesus' feet and then She goes to a place where she worships extravagantly and kind of blesses Jesus with the oil. And it's extravagant worship, isn't it? And she really wants to give her all, her very best. And so there's growth path there. But then equally with Martha, it's like I'd never seen that before, that idea that she goes from being kind of busy, busy, busy, too busy serving Jesus, is challenged, and then the next time she encounters Jesus, she's on the lookout for him. So, at Lazarus's house, she's looking for him. She's expectant for him to turn up and do something. And actually, she's quite disappointed when he turns up and he doesn't arrive in time, and he doesn't do what she thinks he should do, which is heal her brother before he dies. And so, yeah, I like the fact that there's a growth in both of them. Like from spending time with Jesus. And that really hit me tonight. I thought that's really cool.
Dan: And they both, I didn't read it there, but they both have exactly the same reaction. And they both say the same thing. They say, Jesus, if you were here, he wouldn't have died. They both know the, the, the power, you know. They both know this Jesus, that he was, he was a healer. He was able to. Yeah.
Anna: And I love that. I love that part. I know this isn't totally what we're supposed to be talking about tonight, but I love that detail in the story because I feel like, haven't we, anyone who's been a Christian for any length of time, or maybe walked away from Christianity because, like, I know lots of people who have because they've expected something of Jesus. They've expected God to turn up in their lives in a certain way, maybe give them healing for illness or you know, someone who's unwell, or, to do a certain thing or answer a prayer in a certain way, and it's not worked out the way they expected. And I've, I've sure been there as well. I'm sure you've got examples. and it makes you think, oh, if only you turned up, if only you'd done that, Jesus. And sometimes people walk away.
Dan: Yeah.
Anna: And a bit out of that disappointment. And I think just stick around and see what God's gonna do, because it may not look the way you think it should or you think it will, but like what Jesus does in the situation is so much bigger than, you know. But she still has that expectation, like, "You should have come and healed my brother, but I still believe you're the Son of God and I still believe you can do something even now, even in this kind of worst case scenario where my brother's already died. I still know who you are." And I love that. Kind of just heart attitude, which kind of opens up space for Jesus to do this amazing miracle.
Dan: Yeah, yeah, I love that. just her great love, a great love for her brother, for, for her sister, and for, and for Jesus. It's just apparent, isn't it? and like you said before, it's so many times it's, oh, Martha, she's just serving and doing. And she does, but she was listening as well. You know, there's not many people in the Bible that realised that Jesus was the Son of God straight away and said it out, "Who are you? Who do you think I am?" But she, yeah, she knew who this man was.
Anna: Yeah, it's like she's obviously intimately encountered Jesus, and that's why, yeah, she knows him because she's met him, like, and it's been personal. I'm just having a quick look at the feed, and there's a few comments coming through. Which is great. So we've got a few people— actually, we should start by saying happy birthday to Erica. Erica's on the feed tonight and it's her birthday, so happy birthday, Erica. we've also got Jamie and Catherine and Mia on the vertical stream. we've got Ellis, Alicia, and Sonia all watching on the feed as well. Alicia said she recently did a Bible study on overwhelm, and Martha and Mary was kind of came up as a story in that. And I think that's, that's a really good point, that there's a lot about that sense of like, I suppose culture today, it's so easy to get in that sense of overwhelm, isn't it? We're like— and you touched on this, Dan— like, we're busy, busy, busy, and, we can, yeah, quite easily feel overwhelmed. Like, there's lots of things coming at us from all angles, and, and you touched a bit on this, and It's a real discipline, isn't it, to sit at Jesus' feet and choose to do that when there's so many things vying for our time, so many distractions, so many— and, and it can be overwhelming and it can feel like another thing to do. But I think what comes out in this story is that, like, spending time with Jesus isn't another thing on the to-do list. It's the thing that makes the to-do list, like, dramatically different. It's like, it's should be the top, really, because yeah, sometimes you can feel like, oh, I need to spend time with God or speak to God or do my quiet time or spend some time praying, and it can feel like another to-do, can't it? And yeah, the actual experience of sitting at Jesus' feet is kind of like, it's like exhaling, like, oh, you know? Yeah, it's really— what about you, Aid? What's, what's your experiences on on all of this?
Ade: Certainly spending time with Jesus changes your perspective on the to-do list, and you might find things are added to it, but things are also taken off, or rather drop down. Yeah, the, the, the priority on the to-do list.
Anna: Yeah, it can be like a perspective change, can't it? Like, when you spend time with Jesus, you get his perspective on everything else in your life, and that can really change how you do it all.
Dan: Did I— did feel that— go on, go on, Ade. Sorry, can I say it can—
Ade: Oh, it can change you in the moment as well. I mean, just looking at that passage where, Martha's saying, if only you were here, and, Jesus says, well, I will, I'm going to resurrect him. And she says, "Well, I know that he will rise again in the resurrection in my last day." And Jesus is like, "No, I am the resurrection, the life. It's going to happen now." And you can see her, just her mind is expanding. She knows him, she believes what he can do. She thinks, "Right, he's passed now. We'll see him in the next life." But right there, Jesus is just stretching her mind and just kind of focusing her on him and what he can do. And it's like you see her her understanding is just being even more revealed as this passage goes on.
Dan: So I was going to say, one, another sort of title that I could have put on that talk was, was priorities. It could be sort of summed down to that, that word, kind of like you, you've been saying, like perspective or priority is just We have lots of things to do. We are all busy. There is so much— so many things vying for our time. But can we adjust our priorities?
Anna: Yeah, I think what came across really well and what you said, Dan, was that, that kind of last bit you talked about, like, presentness and kind of being present to what God wants to do in the moment, really. And that actually, when we stop and spend time with him, we're able to be present to what he wants to do in that moment. And I think sometimes in our busyness, we can just miss it. We can miss the thing, like, perhaps God wants to bring heaven down in that moment and do something really dramatic, like even, raise someone from the dead or heal someone. and, and we can miss it in our busyness if we don't stop and listen and make space in our already busy agendas. Like, I often think it's about our agendas versus God's agenda and making space for God's agenda to break into our day rather than just kind of what we already had planned for ourselves. Yeah, so I think that's really— yeah, that really challenges me.
Dan: And we can very easily have that, that excuse that, our daily tasks or our task—
Anna: We—
Dan: What I'm trying to say, we I didn't mention it, we can hide behind things, can't we? Hide behind genuine stuff. And that, for me, I know I've done so many times, and I really have to be conscious of that hiding behind stuff that has to be done.
Anna: Can you unpack a bit more about that, Dan? Like, what— because I was interested in this when you were talking about it, but you know when you're just sort of talking about like, sometimes we can hide behind our busyness. What do you think are some of the reasons that we do that?
Dan: Like, I don't know, for me it was, it was easier. I knew there was— let's take an example of, of church and stuff, doing lots of like helping, and, and I was there, and God might have given me something to do. Even if you've been to a Christian service where it's a bit more interactive— I don't know your experience of church, but In some churches, someone will do a talk like, like we've done now, and instead of the questions at the end, it might be, well, if, if God— if you feel God has said something to you, then perhaps go and talk with someone, or go and get prayer. And my busyness and my duties, I say, oh well, I need to do, I need to do the PA, I need to turn these mics down, I need to do this. But I knew that God was prompting me, no, you should go and get, you get prayer, you need to go and meet with God now. And that for me was where something came in that I genuinely had a job to do. No one would notice.
Anna: Yeah.
Dan: They thought, oh, he's just doing what he should do.
Anna: But sometimes it's like trying, trying to— I know sometimes it's a little bit outside of our comfort zone, isn't it, when God wants to break into the moment and speak to us or got our attention. Or maybe we order our priorities, that can be Sometimes it can be uncomfortable for me, and I think sometimes I can avoid in the busyness because I perhaps know that God's going to challenge my priorities, or yeah, or it might be a little bit uncomfortable in short term, even though you— just as it was for Martha and Mary, but actually it was for their growth, and you can see that growth trajectory in their story. But I think sometimes It's, yeah, it's that fear of like, oh, is this going to be challenging or difficult, or is God going to say something maybe I don't like, or that's, I know, just uncomfortable. But like, it's knowing, it's knowing that God is good and he's for you, isn't it? And I, I loved, what you said at the beginning, which was, you're talking about kind of when he, when Jesus says, Martha, Martha, and it, and it's That really struck me as well, because I thought, yeah, that's it. Sometimes I've read this story and it's like a bit of a ticking off of Martha. And the way I've heard it is, oh, if you're too busy and you're not making enough time for God in your life or in your day, then, like, well, you really should be, you know. And it's a bit of a ticking off, and I hear it that way sometimes.
Dan: This story— say your name twice just so you listen.
Anna: Yeah, yeah, like, you really need to listen. Anna, Anna, come on now. Bit like my dad doing his stern voice. And actually, that's not the thing at all. It's like tender. It's like, Martha, Martha, I really want your attention here because I love you. And it's like understanding the tone and the kind of, yeah, the kind of way that Jesus is saying that. And I think that really illuminates the whole passage. It's like, oh, he's not telling her off. He's really calling her to come to him out of his love. And It's the tender thing and I really like that. And I thought, yeah, that's absolutely right. Yeah. Any more thoughts from you, Aidh?
Ade: I think there's a popular, almost social misconception that if you're busy, you're important because you've got lots of stuff to do rather than, well, actually, maybe you're just not very good at organising your time. And, as people, it can be very easy to fall into that trap of just getting caught up in the busyness and even in the buzz of being busy. And, I've been in a similar place to Dan where I'm down at the PA desk and it's the end of a service, or I'm at the front, I've been leading worship and the stuff needs taken down. And you can see people kind of looking around, kind of, maybe looking looking for someone to talk to or not, and you're like, ah, but I've got so much stuff to do here. And then, we have to be out of the building by such and such a time. And being, being human beings and task-oriented, we tend to just focus on the task that's immediately in front of us and then block out what's around us. And, it's just, it's done, it's done from a good place of, serving the body by doing this task. But then you have to think, well, maybe if we took a step back and looked at it from Jesus' perspective, are we serving the body in the best way we can? By focusing on this task in front of us, or maybe there are people over here who could benefit more from our attention.
Anna: Yeah, that's, that's a really good point. I think sometimes we can feel a little bit like we've already got an agenda or things we need to do, and it can be a bit inconvenient, kind of, to kind of veer off that. But sometimes I think God wants to interrupt our day or our moment and to be like, 'Well, what about this person over here who perhaps really needs someone to talk to or to listen or to pray with them for a few minutes?' I've been thinking, just perhaps when you go to the shops, there's someone outside who's begging or asking for money or something, but your immediate reaction is, 'Well, I'm doing my shopping.' Yeah.
Dan: 'I'm doing this.' And that's— I'm speaking to myself here— that's what I'm making myself busy Yeah, what's, what's another minute to just to talk to someone? yeah, and I, I need to know what I, what I do with that. Am I, am I making myself— this is my task, I mustn't veer from my task— just so I can not do that thing that's a little bit awkward, a little bit— I don't quite know what to do here.
Anna: We can be a bit, I don't know, inflexible, can't we, as human beings? We can be a bit kind of just fixed, fixed on what we plan to do.
Dan: Excuse. Yeah, it's a great excuse in your head why you didn't do it, because I had to do this other thing.
Anna: That's for me.
Dan: For me, it's— yeah, great.
Anna: Yeah, it's, it's hard, isn't it? I think, I like what Alicia said on the, on the feed here. She says, I think the Lord was showing compassion to Martha in the way, in that moment. and I think so, I think we're going back to that point about Martha, Martha, when, Jesus was like speaking compassionately and tenderly to her. And I think that's the thing that I really take away though, and like I hope others at home take this away as well, that it's not a, it's not a like kind of harsh thing, like, oh, you really should be less busy, and you really, Dan, you really should listen to me in the supermarket when I tried to get your attention then. And like, it's not a like taking off. It's, yeah, like, it's Jesus' compassion and that actually he, he's got compassion. But he equally, just as he had compassion for Martha, he's got compassion for our inflexibility and the times we miss it and miss the moment and don't create time for him and don't hear him and don't make space for him in our day. I think, we're all a work in process, aren't we? So I think for me, I guess I just wanted to say as well, it's a real grace thing. Like, We're all learning. Like, none of us are experts at this. And I think, yeah, it is a compassionate thing. Like, Jesus is like, come on. Like, I, I've got a lot of grace for you here, but like, let's grow and let's, kind of partner together and work together. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just having a quick look through the feed. I can't see much else at the moment. Any other thoughts from you, Ade?
Ade: Not at this point in time.
Anna: Dan, how about you? Are you— any other thoughts as you're planning the tour for anything?
Dan: No, I think we spoke yesterday about that— not yesterday, last week— It was mentioned that, when we're praying, it was, well, God wants to hear your voice. and he wants us to hear his voice too, as well. Sometimes we can do all the talking, can't we? And it's just like, yeah, listen to my voice. Daniel, Daniel, just—
Anna: Yeah, I think that's really right. And I, I've— yeah, I think it's really hard for us culturally as well. Like, we live in a very fast-paced society, don't we? And Yeah, I think there's not much space for listening at all. I mean, you can see that in politics, you can see it in our day, you see it the way people are on mobile phones and you just like quick text. Like, culture has never moved faster, really, has it? And so this, it's quite, it's quite alien to us in some ways. And I think we've got a lot to learn about listening and stilling ourselves and being present in the moment and being present to what God wants to do in the moment. Yeah.
Dan: In Ephesians it says, it says, look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time because the days are evil. So it's just, yeah, the time can run away from you, basically what it's saying. But let's make the, the best use of all that we've got.
Anna: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I love that. So I think that probably is a natural conclusion to our conversation straight, but can you tell us a little bit about what's happening next week, Dan?
Dan: Yeah, so we've got, Dave Connolly doing the talk.
Anna: Brilliant.
Dan: And he is talking about— and I did remember it, and, here we go— When You're Running on Empty. So yeah, looking forward to that.
Anna: That's kind of continuation from this theme, isn't it? Because we've talked about being present and trying to, yeah, just be still and spend time with Jesus and spend time at his feet today. And I guess Running on Empty is— and Alicia mentioned it tonight on the feed, actually— overwhelm. And that, yeah, it feels like part of the same theme, really, like too much going on.
Dan: And then when you have got time, yeah, you just want to—
Anna: You just want to, yeah, watch Netflix or whatever it is, whatever your channel of choice is. But yeah, that sounds really good. And who's hosting next week?
Dan: So that'd be Sharon and Mike.
Anna: Awesome dream team. So that's pretty much all from us. Any last thoughts from you, Ade?
Ade: Hopefully we'll see you all in the live lounge in a couple of minutes.
Anna: Yeah, the link—
Ade: A bit like having tea and coffee after church, only you bring your own tea and coffee, so you can't complain if the drinks are naff. That's on you.
Anna: I love that. I love that. So the link for that should be somewhere in the feed. Or coming up shortly if it's not there. Yep, it's there, I am told. So there it is. So yeah, come and join us and we'd love to chat some more if you want to unpack anything that we've talked about tonight and meet some of the team. Yeah. And if not, we will see you next week. So that's it from us. Say bye, Dan.
Dan: See you. See you next week.
Anna: Say bye, Dan. Bye, Dan.
Ade: Bye, Dan.
Anna: Bye, Dan. See you, everyone. Have a good week
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