14: Birth Trauma: Processing & Overcoming

What's the Story

7 Dec

Today’s Guest: Beth Coppenhall

Beth is Yorkshire-born and a full-time mamma of two. She loves writing, marketing and crafting with the kids. She is also an avid blogger!

Here’s a summary of this week’s story:

Beth grew up with a praying mom, but wasn't herself a Christian until later in life. After struggling through university and battling glandular fever, Beth had an encounter with Jesus that led her to Christianity Even though she was still struggling, Beth knew that Jesus was real and chose to follow him.
Beth shares her story of how she felt like her faith wasn't good enough when she didn't have the supernatural childbirth that she had been praying for. After wrestling through her thoughts and emotions with God her second birth experience was a miracle.
Knowing that God loved her and was with her regardless of what happened made all the difference.

Links & Resources from today’s story

Beth's Blog

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Matt Edmundson: Welcome to what's the story? My name is Matt Edmundson, and this is a podcast full of stories about faith and courage from everyday people. And today I'm chatting with the legendary Beth Coppenhall about learning how not to overthink things. Oh, yes, we are getting into that. But before I get into all things, Beth, uh, one thing that I do love to do is give a shout out to past guests and episodes and given, uh, the topics that we are gonna be talking today about motherhood, glandular fever, all kinds of things. Uh, I thought it would be great to mention, uh, the livestream we did called Faith and Motherhood. Does it make a difference? That was done on a Mother's Day with Sally Burch. You can check that one out. And also check out the Talk by John Harding journey through the wall.
You can find these and our entire archive of episodes and live streams, uh, on our website for free at www.crowd.church. And whilst you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. And each week we will email you the links along with the notes from the conversations. Uh, they go direct your inbox, totally free. Totally amazing.
Now. This episode is brought to you by Crowd Online Church. Beth, I'm sure you know them as well as I do. Not everybody, uh, can go to church. Not everybody, uh, wants to go to church. Not everybody can make it to a church building, and this is where online Church works really, really well. It is a safe space to explore the Christian faith.
And the thing that I love about Crowd Online Church is that you get to join in. And shape the conversation. Oh, yes. So if you have never been to church before, or if you are looking for a new church to join, do checkout Crowd Church. The website is www.crowd.church. Uh, and if you've got any questions, email me directly at matt@crowd.church. I will try my very best to answer them. Oh, yes.
Now Beth, what can I say about Beth? Uh, I've known Beth for a little while. Uh, she is Yorkshire born, a full-time mama of two. Uh, she loves writing's, actually a brilliant writer. Uh, she loves marketing, brilliant at marketing, uh, and crafting with the kids. I don't know whether she's brilliant at that, but let's just go with yes. Uh, and she blogs regularly@bethcoppenhall.com. If you wanna read some of Beth's blog posts, which I suggest you do, Beth, welcome to the podcast, welcome to what's the story. Great to have you here. How you doing?
Beth Coppenhall: I'm good. Hello!
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Good. Now this is, uh, a little, uh, reminiscent. I feel you and I doing video conversations together.
Beth Coppenhall: It's very strange. It's like going back in time, except I've now got two kids.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, um,
Beth Coppenhall: I'm not talking about skincare unless question.
Matt Edmundson: We can totally talk about skincare. I should probably explain dear listener and viewer, uh, if you don't know the story of Beth and I and why would you?
Uh, Beth and I used to work together before, uh, the two kids came along and Beth was. Uh, what was your title? Chief Marketing? I don't even, I don't actually remember. It was something, was it Queen of Content or something? Yeah. Well, queen,
Beth Coppenhall: I can't remember. It was Queen. It had Queen in the title.
Matt Edmundson: It definitely, definitely had the queen in the title, and Beth used to handle all our marketing and all our content.
And so, uh, yeah, quite, quite often we would find ourselves two sat together in front of a video camera talking about everything from skincare to e-commerce to whatever crazy idea I had that day. Uh, and so yeah, it's just, it's just, it's quite nice. Beth, you and I are doing video again. It's quite, it's quite reminiscent.
It's quite lovely. It is. That's, well, it's great to be here. So other than, uh, working with me, uh, you, which is obviously one of the key highlights of life, uh, you've got two beautiful kids, uh, and a beautiful husband. And you live here in Sunny Liverpool, but your accent is Yorkshire born, right?
Beth Coppenhall: Yes. That's why I put that there cuz I thought. Anyone's listening and is like, what are you saying? I'm from Yorkshire, and I haven't ever left my accent. I'm quite proud of it, actually, but it does get a lot of comments.
Matt Edmundson: Good comments or bad comments?
Beth Coppenhall: Oh, a mixture. To be honest, I'm, but like, excuse me, this is my accent. I can't do anything about it.
Matt Edmundson: This is who I am.
Beth Coppenhall: One of my friends who's like 92. Um, she came round and she, and I was offering her a piece of cake. This was pretty recently. I said, do you want some cake, Gina? Do you want some cake? And she genuinely didn't know what I was on about for a long time. And then she says "Oh, Cake!"
Matt Edmundson: That's funny.
Beth Coppenhall: The word coaster, as in what you put a hot drink on. Yeah. And people looked a bit like bit blank. Yeah. So if I say any words that you think need a bit of translation for your wider audience, that's fine.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I'll, I'll try and translate. My father is from, uh, your part of the world, from, from Yorkshire.
So I'm, I'm used to the accent and I'm used to the language and the lingo. Uh, but it was great actually when you worked at the office, just having that accent that strong in our office. So be proud of it, Beth. Be proud of it. I would be.
Beth Coppenhall: Yeah. There was also another one there, isn't there? There's still a Yorkshire person in Mark Jackson at the helm.
Matt Edmundson: Well, you know, you were, you were. It's funny, isn't it? Uh, how when you two talk you sort of bring each other's accents out.
Beth Coppenhall: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is a Yorkshire thing. Like, so when I go back to my mom and dad's Terry's like, I dunno what you're saying, in March, eight years,
We also find people like Yorkshire people find people that are from Yorkshire. So obviously I'm living in Liverpool, been here for like 12 years, but I will find the Yorkshire people and like they will be my friends.
Matt Edmundson: And just sort of gravitate towards each other.
Beth Coppenhall: Yeah, we do. It's a thing. I was telling someone this the other day. I was like, yeah, just find each other.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, fair play. Fair play. So you've been in Liverpool 12 years. Uh, you came as a student. . Mm-hmm.. Um, were you a Christian when you came to Liverpool?
Beth Coppenhall: Nope. Nope. I wasn't a Christian. Um, so my story starts with, I guess a praying mom. So my mom was, became Christian when she was 13.
Um, and she's always prayed for me, but she, she, she took me to church. Um, she was in part of like a little house church. Um, but um, she said she took me there quite a lot, but when I was little, but I don't remember going much in high school like, and yeah. When I was at uni I didn't even, it wasn't even a thing.
I wasn't like, oh, I'm church when I go to uni. I just wasn't a Christian. Yeah. So I came, it's actually quite cool how I came to Liverpool cuz I put Newcastle down. I was very, I think I still am getting over this. Always want the best grade. Always want the top. So I really wanted to go to Newcastle University and they wanted really high grades and I put Liverpool University as my second choice, which everyone told me not to do.
My pharm tutor was like, why would you do that? I want, they want the same grades. And I was like, but I don't really want to go anywhere else. So I'm just gonna put where I want to go. I'm not, why would I put something there? I don't want to go just cause it's lower grades. Um, and yet Newcastle were like, no, because I didn't quite make it.
I got an A and two B's, but my B's were really good. Yeah. Um, and I think Liverpool obviously God was in it, cuz in hindsight, like that's, he brought me here for a reason, but, . But yeah, Liverpool, they had a bit of like, oh yeah, she can come. She got two high B's. We'll let her off, we'll let her off that one. Okay.
So yeah, ended up here, like, it wasn't my first choice. Mm-hmm.. Um, but I loved it. I loved the love the city. I wanted to be somewhere like Leeds, but different. So I want you to draw on independence. But I do quite like being a Northerner and I like, I think Northern City is quite friendly. I went, I didn't want it too far from home, so yeah, it ticked all my boxes.
Matt Edmundson: So I can see why you chose Liverpool or Newcastle because they're sort of equidistant from Leeds, aren't they? And they're both Northern towns and they're actually all quite similar to each other in feel and friendliness. I think Newcastle's a great city. Liverpool's a great city. Leeds is a great city. Um, and so yeah, I can see why, why those choices, but you weren't.
So what happened then? Um, when you came to uni, if you weren't a Christian on your arrival, so you've got a praying mum, you've not really gone to church, um, and you've sort of ended up at, at uni here. What happened?
Beth Coppenhall: So not a right lot for the first two years. So I was very studious, wanted the best grades. Like I said, I also was a big people pleaser.
I wanted to be everybody's friend. Again. Still something that I'm getting over like, so I kind of did all the things that you should do when you're a student. Um, went to all the lectures, but also I was a bit of a mess. I did all the binge drinking and partying. Yeah, just like it's, it is a weird blur of a time because I think, I think I was pretty anxious, but I didn't realize, like, I was asking my mom about the other day and she was like, if anyone said it, are you all right?
You'd just be like, yeah, I'm totally fine. I don't need help. I, I don't need anything. Like, I was just like, I'm fine. I've got this. But then in. Between second and third year, I decided to go interrailing. So you get train, you get a special train ticket you're allowed on all the trains. So that was really cool.
But like I did not expect it to change my life in the way that it changed my life. And I knew when I was there I was like, something weird is happening cuz I remember seeing a picture on the wall. I can't remember what it said now that's really gonna bug me. But something about, you know, like getting lost and finding yourself and something reflective like that.
And I just, I really was kind of going on this, um, I guess I thought a lot when I was there kind of thing. Like, and I came back home and I had Glandular Fever, um, from drinking too much. Wow. But nobody knew that had Glandular fever, so. People kept saying, um, it's freshers flu. And I was like, I'm not a fresher. I kept going to the doctors, they're like, it's freshers flu.
I was like, I'm not a fresher, this cough is not going away. I do not feel well like me. Like I don't feel well, please. Like, um, and then I was in a Shakespeare lecture one day and a mature student or someone that's gone to uni older, um, came up to me and was like, you, that cough has been, I'm a mature student.
I used to be a nurse. That cough has been in my ward. You need to go get it checked out. I was like, I keep getting it checked out, but they keep saying it's like freshers flu. She was like, its not freshers flu. You need to get it checked out. So I think that was the thing that pushed me to get in some more tests and then eventually I have all these missed calls being like, You're not well, we need to see you.
Well, yeah. Yeah. I went yellow. I got a bit of jaundice because the type of glandular fever that I had affected my white blood cells, not my red ones. So I had a bit like my liver was not doing so great. Again, probably as I was drinking loads as well. Like it was a combination of things, but I was a mess and I felt like I look back.
And like I was like, wow, I was, I was really quite broken. Like I wanted the best grades. I wanted to please everybody. I just want some sort of, didn't really care about myself. And then this like going into really made me stop a bit and then going. Having Glandular fever made me stop a bit cuz I couldn't actually be at uni.
I couldn't be in the lectures that I wanted to be in. And so it was really frustrating time, really difficult time. Went back to Leeds. Um, I was really anxious because my goal was to get a really good grade, but then I couldn't get a really good grade because, I was just really ill, like, I had post viral fatigue, so like, I'd be right in the house sometimes, like, I'd be like, oh, I'm alright.
But if I go out, I'd just like be so, so tired and just yeah, just like, just really wiped out. Yeah. I had a job as well at the time in, in the shop. Um, and that was really difficult in itself because they gave me sick leave, but then they were like, oh, we shouldn't have given you that. So then I had to work for free.
So. Oh wow. I to like work back the hours like, so I was like really sick and yeah, all this was going on. It was a bit of a mess. But in the middle of that, my mom took me to a church service. So at the time God had told her to go to a new church. She used to go to house Church God told her to go to a new church because.
But she also had my littlest brother, so this 17 year age gap between me and my littlest brother. Wow. She was going to church with Benjamin, who was a toddler at the time, and I, I don't think I've been at the house in a while and she just kept taking me to her church. And I look back, I'm like, she just kept taking me to her house group, to her church, like, and I remember going to a baptism one day and there was this, there was this girl.
And she stood and she's gonna get baptized. And she's like, I love Jesus. I love Jesus, I love Jesus. And then she gets baptized and I'm like, what? Like what is this like, honestly. And then this guy got up and he was sad. He was just like, um, went to uni, um, with my girlfriend. Like, um, made quite a lot of mistakes. Like he was into the partying culture. And then he found God, and like you could tell there was something about his life that was different and I could not get away from that.
Like I didn't tell anyone. Yeah, because why would I? Yeah. Like I was like, have this, I'm right. I'm right, I'm all right. Even though I clearly wasn't, and like, so I didn't tell anyone that I was like, Um, thinking about Jesus, I just kind of like kept thinking about Jesus and thinking maybe he's real. How does that change my life? I'm not really sure. And then the church mosaic that my mom went to, um, I found online that they did basically like an alpha course online. It was called Interest. So it was about like six podcasts where it was just them answering questions about Jesus. Um, and I was just secretly listening to it in my university bedroom.
Like just would put it on just like, yeah. I didn't want anyone to know. Yeah. I was just like secretly listening and then I remember. And the day when I was like, right, I am convinced, convinced, convinced that this is real. And so I, like my university bedroom was locked. I think I saw, you know, was in cinema at the time.
Okay. I remember seeing that. And again, it was just like God was on me. Like I was like, went to see that and I was just like, I'm gonna cry. All this stuff about grace. I was like, oh my goodness, like this is so real. So it goes back to my university room. I'd like knelt down and I just knew that Jesus was there.
Like I just knew that he was in front of me. Like I could feel his presence. He was just standing up and I knew he was there. I knew he was in front of me and I had such a like mad encounter with Jesus, like, and had a picture in my head of like this massive gate. I think it was like the gates of heaven just opening and like I just chose to go in and I was just like, yes, God yes.
Like, and I remember having another picture of like three girls. Um, and I dunno if that's like, cuz my Nan's Christian and my mom's Christian and I'm Christian. I dunno. Um, but it was just really, really like clear. Like it was just like, it was amazing and like, It was so real to me as well. Like in the middle of it all.
I was just like, this is so real. Like, but I was still a mess. I was still anxious. I still was stressing about how I'm gonna pass my like university degree. Didn't know how it changed my life. Didn't understand that bit, right? Just was like, this is mad and it's happening and I'm just gonna go with it.
Matt Edmundson: Wow. Yeah, that's, that's quite a, that's quite a fascinating story.
There's a lot in there. Beth, I'm really curious. When you were listening to the podcast from the church and you said you were in your room and you were listening to it, you didn't want anybody to know. Yeah. Why? Why was that?
Beth Coppenhall: I dunno. I think maybe, I dunno. I think maybe. I was worried about what they would think of me because that was a thing for me anyway.
I was like such a, so wrapped up in people pleasing and this was like me doing what I wanted, you know? This was me choosing my own path and like I'd never really done that until that point. I had in a little bit of ways, you know, like I really like English literature and language and that's what I wanted to study.
So, and I loved my degree, but um, I think it was just like the first time where actually I could face loads of rejection, but I wanted it and I wanted to choose my own path in that way. But it was mad. Like I remember I didn't tell my mom and I went to my mom's church around, it was like all January, 2013.
But I never remember which bit happened when, um, cause I was still ill, and I was still like struggling with stuff. So about January, 2013, somewhere in this, like I think I had given my life to Jesus and I went to Mosaic, the my mom's church and she, I didn't want anyone to know. Like, I dunno why I'm like, but again, God is so onto me, like he sat me in front of a person that had glandular fever, like get that like had glandular fever, like, and like she had a picture for me of like an iron ironing out a tie and ironing out all the creases in my life. And I was like, ah.
And then the service, I don't even know what it was, but I just remember I wanted to cry the whole time. And then my mom was bawling and she told her and she just felt like, she was like, I felt like I. Like those tears for you. Like I had your tears. I felt like God said I had your tears because I was just like, I'm not gonna cry in front of people. Why would I do that? Wow. I was just very like, don't want anyone to know.
Matt Edmundson: Wow. Yeah. Your mom sounds like an absolute legend in all of this. And, um, you know, go, go Beth Mum, whoohoo?
Uh, that's awesome. So, uh, you go to Mosaic. Uh, which is the word you were saying? Mosaic. Mosaic. Oh yeah, mosaic, yeah. Mosaic. Mosaic. The church. And this is a church in Leeds, which is obviously your mum's church. And you, uh, you have more encounters with God. And so at this point you're still struggling with glandular fever.
So did that carry on for a while? What happens sort of next?
Beth Coppenhall: So the person that I told you about who sat in front of me, she was called Laura. She had glandular fever and we just made a friendship and she helped me through. She was like, she just really helped me understand like, okay, this is what if I were you, this is what I do about university, this is what I do about this situation.
This is what I do about this situation in relation to glandular Fever. She really helped me like make a plan to get through. Then when I went back to Liverpool, I kind of had that little plan and I was like, I'm gonna find a church. Now I had done some Facebook stalking, so I knew a Christian and um, I also done some Googling cuz Mosaic at the time.
So actually it was just the first time I went to Mosaic, it was a big warehouse. Big warehouse church. Yeah. And the. Into 2013, I think that's when they split into three churches. And the one that my mom goes to, still goes to now is in a school. Okay. But I really liked the kind of big warehouse five. So I did a bit of Googling about, I wanted to go to church like Mosaic, but in Liverpool, it's like my uni story.
I love again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like Leeds, but in the, yeah. Um, I found Frontline, Frontline Church in Wavertree and, um, because one of my high school friends went there and it was amazing. Like, I remember going there on the morning. I remember the preach like, so I don't remember all the preaches that I went to at the time I was at Mosaic, but I remember going to Frontline.
I remember Julie Connolly preaching about spiritual warfare, and it was just like incredible. And I went to the 10:30 service, which is morning service, very friendly And this old man grabbed my shoulder and he was like, come back at 6. I was like, Okay.
Matt Edmundson: You'd go to jail for things like that now.
Beth Coppenhall: Yeah. Yeah. My housemates knew nothing like I just secretly did all this. Nobody knew anything like, Gets in the taxi again, goes back at six, walks in, and my friend from high school was there. She grabs me on the shoulder. She's like, what are you doing here? And then that was, you know, like I just cried and cried through the whole service.
Exactly the same talk Julie did again. And I just cried. I just knew that was her like, like I'd found, like, I was like, I dunno. It was just incredible. I was just like, I'm home. Like this is, this is it. Like, and then after that I started telling people.
Matt Edmundson: So how did it go with your housemates and the people that you were trying to hide all of this from when you told them?
Beth Coppenhall: Yeah. Mixed. Mixed bag. Really mixed bag. Some people were like, what's happened in your life? I want to know. Um, some people were like, this is weird. Don't want to know. Um, Yes. It was a really weird time and I think that time in your life is weird anyway. You know, the last year of uni, who are you gonna keep in touch with?
Yeah, like where you gonna live? Because that affects things, doesn't it? Like different people then move to do masters to do, to go back home to their hometown to do gap years like, so it is really that weird time anywhere and I think. Then throwing something like this big life change into it was just a bit like some people didn't wanna know.
Um, some people very kindly didn't wanna know, you know, like, kind of like, well that's a bit weird, but yeah. Like, you do you. Leave me out of it. It wasn't like, I'm gonna reject you. It was just you do you, I'm going this way. You're going that way. Bye. We still love each other. Mm-hmm.. Like, but yeah, there was a lot, there was a fair amount of like rejection in there though. It wasn't easy.
Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm.. But you, you start to then get, um, connected to Frontline Church, which is the church where the Crowd Church is connected to. Actually that came out. Crowd Church came out of Frontline Church and that's where we met, wasn't it? Uh, going like a long, long time ago. So, fast forward, um, however many years it is, what now?
Uh, nine years. Um, Has life been all sort of sunshine and rainbows for you? You know, did you get better of grandular fever? You sort of overcome your people approval thing and, and welcome, welcome world, Beth has arrived.
Beth Coppenhall: No, and that is one of my, you just summarized what my biggest struggle is basically because in my head, that is what is supposed to happen.
Like, and so I was a bit like, Hey. What, like life is quite difficult still. And so I think the week after, so I went to Frontline and I think the week after or maybe a couple of weeks after I met, um, my husband, wasn't then my husband obviously.
Matt Edmundson: Cause that'd just be really weird if he was here.
Beth Coppenhall: I met Terry and I also met you and Sharon on the same day and a bunch of other cool people. Um, it was at your house. I think I may have. Oh, it might, it was, yeah, I think it was,
Matt Edmundson: yeah, it was the student lunching, wasn't it? The student lunching.
Beth Coppenhall: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, so it was in one sentence it was like sunshine and rainbows because like my whole life had changed and me and Terry like met and we quickly got married the year after, but the anxiety didn't go.
Like there was a long road to healing with the grandular fever. I didn't get instantly healed. Um, and then I've had other underlying illnesses since, which like, yeah, that's been a big challenge, kind of understanding like why would a good God let someone suffer? That's been a big question. Why don't my prayers get answered when I'm praying to be healed?
That's been a big question. Um, I had Joy, my first, um, my first born in May, 2019. And I pray again, like I expect things to be like sunshine and rainbows. Like I prayed for this amazing birth. Like I got this book that like was all about praying for this amazing birth and it kind of messed me up a bit cause.
Really, like Jesus promises suffering. Like he says. Um, what does he say?
Matt Edmundson: In this world you will have trouble and persecution,
Beth Coppenhall: in this world you will suffer. But, uh, like take heart I have overcome the world, you will have trouble, but take heart I have overcome the world. Um, and yeah, like I think it's been just quite a journey of like.
I prayed, like with the birth, I prayed for this amazing birth. It didn't happen. It was actually really traumatic and I really struggled to get my head around that. And I felt like I'd failed. I felt like my faith had failed. I felt like I didn't have enough faith, cuz the book that I read kind of implied that it was my faith that didn't make it happen.
Yeah. Um, and so yeah, I was just kinda like, oh, it's my fault. I don't have enough faith and just that, that whole struggle of like, what do you do when there's suffering? Um, what do you do when things don't go, when things aren't sunshine and rainbows, when things don't go to plan. So yeah.
Matt Edmundson: That's a really, it's a really interesting statement because I, I've not seen it as much in recent times, but suddenly there was a period where there was this sort of movement which said, if you have faith, you can move mountains, which is, you know, very, I, I get the scriptural reference for that.
But it, it became this thing where actually if you wanted anything from God, it was all down to your faith. And if you didn't have faith, you wouldn't get it. And if you weren't getting it, therefore it was because you had weak faith. And whilst that was never said, uh, it was, it. It was implied, it was implicit in the statement that if you have faith, you can move mountains and you reverse engineer that.
You say, well, if the mountains not moving, then I've not got faith. Yeah. Uh, and it was a really interesting time, I think, for people, because I think there are times where actually people's own belief does prevent the movement of God. But I, I think they're, they're a lot rarer than we think they are in, in a lot of ways.
Do you know what I mean, and so I'm curious. Um, having, you've obviously haven't, uh, gone through that. What, what are some of the lessons that you've learned as a result of that?
Beth Coppenhall: Oh, I don't even know where to start. So if you read my blogs, like, I've blogged through the whole thing and there's a lot of different lessons on there cuz.
Yeah, my head was a mess. I was just like, oh, I need to sort this out cuz I didn't understand it. Like I was just like, I prayed for this thing to happen. Um, but you know what, it is, the biggest lesson I've learned actually has come to me. So I am a feeling person and you know, like I explain what happened in my testimony, like God speaks to me like very clearly through pictures and very clearly through, like I can hear him, I can feel him like his presence, like that's important to me and that's a gift.
But like for me, I felt like I'd failed when I had a traumatic birth. I felt like my faith had failed, that it wasn't good enough that like, and it was a feeling of like feeling that I'd failed, feeling like it wasn't good enough feel. And like, I think one of the biggest lessons I've learned is like, know your Bible because some, some lies will feel so, so true.
Like some lies will be so crafty. Like the enemy is quite crafty. Mm-hmm.. It, it kind of bases it on truth, but then he, obviously it's not true and I feel like I've been so susceptible. Is that a word?
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's a good word. Yeah. You should know you've got the English language, don't you? You crack on.
Beth Coppenhall: Susceptible to that.
Yeah, because I feel like it was just, you know, like this little, you don't, you didn't have enough faith for that. Like so and so has enough faith for that. You don't have enough faith for that. Like, and it was just, it felt true. It felt real, but. Now, and it sometimes it still feels real and have to tell myself that's not true, Beth, that like, that's not true.
Like I know that faith like as small as a mustard seed can move mountains. Also the parable that kept coming to my head throughout this whole time was the one where, um, the, they, so some pals have got a friend who needs healing and they cut the roof open to get him in front of Jesus and they put him in. This is, you know, the Bible by Beth here.
Matt Edmundson: Bible with Yorkshire accents. That's great. I'm loving it. I'm loving it. You keep going.
Beth Coppenhall: Its a bit different in the Bible. This,
Matt Edmundson: I wonder, actually, just as a total aside here, I do wonder if there is a Yorkshire version of the Bible. I've seen the Scouse Bible. I'm gonna, I'm gonna Google it later. Is there a Yorkshire version of the Bible coz it'll be brilliant.
Beth Coppenhall: I read an excellent book. On my dad's bookshelf, there was an excellent book about Yorkshire people who had faith and like, honestly, the first page was brilliant. It was like, Yorkshire people have grit. And here I love this book. That's true. Here's a bunch of Christian people with grits. Yeah, very true. But yeah. Anyway, so in the, in the, in the, going back to the Bible, so there's a couple of guys, they've got the pal who needs healing.
He's paralyzed man. Put him down through the roof. Jesus is there and Jesus heals him and he forgives his sin as well. Um, I think the other way around. But he looks at their friends and he said, it's your friends faith. Like that's healed you or that's I really could do with this in front of me. I feel like I'm absolutely ruining this.
Sorry. Like, but he talks about their friends faith. And I kept coming back to that cause I was like, my friends were praying for me that whole time. You know, like even if I don't have enough faith, I've got like so many friends praying for me that have got more faith than I do. You know, they've got the mustard seed's worth.
But it didn't happen. And it's because I think, you know, like we live in a fallen world. One day there will be no sickness. Like, and one day Jesus will wipe away every tear. Um, but like here it's not like that. Mm-hmm. And like, I think going through what I've been through has definitely has made me clinging to God in a way that I think just yesterday, like I did a preach at church.
Okay. I was walking, like I then, I then went to do some work and at a coffee shop, and I was walking home and I was just thinking about the preach and I was thinking that was mad, like God used my most painful moments to reach someone else there. You know, like, you know, you just like, He makes everything work together for good.
And it's such a privilege to watch him do that in your life like, and you don't think that that's ever gonna be the case when you're in those painful moments when you're like dealing with trauma and you're like, but I didn't pray for this God. But then, If you let him in, like if you let him, he will just turn the whole thing around and like, it is amazing to watch.
You know, like, like yesterday, like I didn't even feel like I was really speaking, like I was dead nervous about preaching. Yeah. And I just shared these stories from, from really like, the moments where I was like, God, where are you? What have you done? Like have you left me? Like it says you'll heal. Like I've surely I've got faith as a mustard seed.
Surely my friends have got faith as small as mustard seed. And like I was able to share those stories with people and watch those people know more about a God who loves them. And it was just incredible. Like yeah. And someone gave me that verse. Before I went into be Induced with my, with Joy, my first one. So I went in for an induction and um, I was really scared and someone gave me the verse all things worked together for good for um, those who love God and I didn't get it then. And like, but that has just been my testimony, you know, like he's taken like the darkest moments, the worst moments, the most painful moments. And like, I just keep watching him like as he turns it around, like he's amazing.
Matt Edmundson: Beth, that's awesome. I, it's, I mean, it's not awesome in, in one sense that you've had to go through what you've gone through, but it, I think the, the thing that I've always loved about you, um, is your absolute commitment to be totally transparent, true, and authentic.
Right? You always know exactly where you're at because when you say how you're doing, you'll say, oh, I'm blah, blah, blah. Right? , and I think, um, it's, it's interesting because part of me, part of the problem I think people have had over the years is you go to church and church people feel like they have to say, oh, life is good.
At least it was for a season. Do you know what I mean? Because it's like, well, faith talks positive, doesn't it? Yeah. And so they, you'd ask them questions. Life is good. And so if you were struggling, you could look at somebody and go, well, their life is good. My life is pants. Why? Why am I struggling? Of course, they're asking the same question over there.
And it's all masks. There's, there's a lot of masks going on. There's, there's not a lot of authenticity sometimes that I'm being totally disparaging about the church, but it is, we have had these seasons where we have been, uh, too unwilling to actually be truthful, uh, about how we feel and the questions that we have for God because we feel like we can't have them.
Yeah. Um, and so it's great that you did, uh, and it's great that you've sort of wrestled with that over the years. So where are, where are things at now? Right? So you going back to the sort of the supernatural childbirth thing that you were praying for and it didn't happen and that sort of, you know, you felt like you failed God and you felt like your faith failed.
When did that turn around in your thinking and how did it turn around in your thinking?
Beth Coppenhall: Um, well I owe a lot to your wife. Your wonderful wife, Sharon. Um, I remember. So I, I wrestled with God a lot by myself and was like, what have you done? But also I had a newborn baby and I have to say that, um, the trauma was traumatic, but then having Joy meant that I was able to focus on Joy.
Yeah. So I had this moment in the bathroom after it happened where I genuinely just thought, oh my goodness, you idiot. You failed. Like you nearly killed your baby. Cuz, cuz you, you didn't let them intervene sooner. And you wanted this supernatural childbirth that like, and I just felt all this condemnation.
Like I remember standing in the bathroom, all this condemnation, you didn't have its not fair that you nearly let this happen. What? Like, but then I had to cry about it and then I just cracked on being a mom, cuz I absolutely love my daughter. And she just brought so much joy to me. She really like, I loved it.
I absolutely loved it. Like, But then lockdown happened in 2020, so she was probably about 10 months, I think. Yeah, 10 months. And then that's when I really wrestled it out and I was like, what is going on? And then I got pregnant in 2020. Yeah, I got pregnant in 2020 with my second, and I start again, anxiety attacks and I was. what is going on? And I was like, I think I need to deal with this. Like I need to deal with this trauma. Like
Matt Edmundson: there was some clues along the way.
Beth Coppenhall: Yeah. I know one thing that I did all the time, so I know a lot about trauma now, but one thing I did all the time was I was talk about birth. Like I would just talk about birth that whole year.
Mm-hmm. and ask people how the births were. I was quite obsessed with it. And I look back and that is actually called, is it ruminating? So when you, when you talk about and you can't get past it, that's actually like, um, a symptom. PTSD of trauma. So, and then I started getting panic attacks cause I was pregnant and it got to 2021.
I was like, I'm gonna give birth to this child in April and how am I gonna do that? And I remember going to meet a friend who had two kids and she had two amazing births. And I just had this like little panic, panic attack and I was like, I need to get over this. I need to do something. So then I rang up, um, talking to Sharon at the time and that was very, very helpful.
Like, um, incredible. And then a couple of people had mentioned to me, um, that there was this person called Hannah Sloan who went to Frontline and um, I should really get in touch with her. She does birth trauma therapy and she's Christian. So I rang her up and I was like, Hannah, this is what's happened to me.
Told her about all the the, the feeling like I didn't have enough faith for this perfect birth, feeling like, you know, like it was my fault. And she was like, right, okay. Like, come see me. So I did five sessions with her and it was incredible. Like it was really good. Like just understanding how trauma works.
I think sometimes as Christians like. We don't go down, we stay too much down the non-medical route. You know, like where Hannah was actually like, what's happened to you is a thing. It's called ptsd, like, and these are the symptoms. And I was like, oh wow, I have those symptoms. She was like, yeah, like I think you've got it.
You know, like, and like I think as Christian sometimes we think we're immune to these things, like it's just a spiritual thing that we're going through or whatever. But actually, like I had PTSD and yeah, like within those five sessions, the main symptoms were no more. Um, and it was just the thing that was left with was just like me and God working that bit out, you know, like.
So, where do we go from here? God, like, because I couldn't, I wasn't really praying around a lot when Joy, from when Joy was born. I remember actually talking to my pastor and being like, I'm not praying around a lot. Like I can't. And I didn't really, again, I didn't really put it all down to the trauma, but, um, but yeah, it kind of worked itself out getting, I got some, I got some therapy.
Spoke a lot to Sharon, like weekly I think. And um, just had, yeah, some support and yeah, just kind of watched through that and was, was just God questions all the time. Um, and yeah, like yeah, I think I've come out of it like the other end, I feel.
Matt Edmundson: So what happened was all this, oh, Judah Judah. Yeah, I was gonna say, cause you obviously had a second child, so how did that birth go?
Beth Coppenhall: So I got to a place where I think this is what, this is what happened. I got to a place where in the last session Hannah was like, what do you wanna do? So we planned for each eventuality of giving birth, like, and I got a debrief as well with my midwife. Um, and she was literally like, Beth, you did amazing.
You like went to nine centimeters with no, with like, no, I dunno, medication or whatever. Just guessing. Um, and the baby was stuck. Your baby was back to back and apparently back to back babies are more painful. But she didn't move. She literally didn't move. And on my notes that there's a picture of her head as soon as like she, the midwife had drawn her head as soon as I'd gone in because they suspected that she was in a funny position and.
That was like, as soon as I went in, she never moved like. So, you know, when you just like look back and you just like, she wasn't gonna move, she wasn't ever, you know, like she was stuck. Like, of course I was gonna end up in a c-section. Like, um, but, and so that gave me clarity and then speaking to Hannah really helped me.
We had like, this is what happened, this, so we had loads of different options and I decided to try for a V back. So a natural birth after, um, ceasarean. I hate the word natural, but like, yeah, that's what we're going with. So I was like, I'm gonna try for that. And it was just really, I got to a place where even if I had another C-section, like I knew that that was okay.
I knew that God still loved me. I knew it was alright. And the birth with Judah was incredible. It was really redemptive actually, because, um, I went into labor naturally. I didn't have to get induced at 39 weeks, 39 plus three or something, and. And it was funny because no one else expected me to and like, so I was like, I think I had a bit of faith then like for this.
And I was like, God, I really like that. But you know, like I've got to a place where anything could happen and I still love you and I know you still love and be with me regardless. Yeah. Um, and I was told that I was having a girl as well, so I was expecting another girl. And um, so then the labor happens naturally this time and then, Everyone like left me, like Kat was supposed to be looking after Joy. She was somewhere. And then Kat's like my best friend and, and then Terry was like, I need to go to work if this is gonna happen.
Oh. Just watching Prince Philip's funeral. And then I was like, right, okay. So waited for them to get back, and then I was like, should we go to hospital now? So then went to hospital. I was dehydrated because no one had been feeding me or giving me any drink. Like I was just random by myself. And then when I drank, just basically, it was just really surreal.
It was really calm. Really quiet on the ward. There was one midwife who didn't say a right lot to me, and then all of a sudden she goes about nine o'clock. She was like, I think you'll have this baby. Nine o'clock on Sunday morning. She was like, I think you'll have this baby within the hour. And I could not believe it.
Like I remember sitting down. And saying to God, God, I dunno what's gonna happen. I dunno if I'm progressing. I dunno what's happening. I'm really anxious. I'm really stressed right now. Please help me. And like it's gonna be okay. Like you're gonna have this baby, it's gonna be okay. Like, and it was just amazing.
It was just, I think, you know, like people want you to think that. Like, um, you can have this terrible birth and then you can have this amazing butterfly birth after it if you go through a B, c, D experience. But I did the therapy, I did the praying like, and it wasn't butterflies, but God was so real and he was so there.
Like, and Judah popped out and everyone thought, I remember the midwife being like, oh, I've got something to show you. Cause he was a boy and they had told me, it was a girl? Surprise. I didn't care. I literally didn't care. I was given the name Judah in the first trimester. Yeah. I felt God for that name on my heart.
Cause I was watching a preach by Judah Smith and he was saying about, How Leah in the Bible, um, was in this battle with her sister, like comparison war. And then by baby number four, she gives up and she says, Now I'm gonna praise God. And I think I was in that place. I was like, do you know what? I'm not battling anymore.
I don't care if faith or no faith or whatever, if that person over there is having hypno birth, or if that person over there is having supernatural childbirth, like I will praise God. Yeah. And like. There's a song called Yes, I Will, by Vertical Worship, I think. And that song was just like the song of Judah.
Like it was just, yes, I will lift you high in the lowest valley. Like, yes, I'm gonna do this. Like I'm gonna praise you no matter what happens. Um, and it was different kind of faith because, I dunno, it's just, Is more grit like, like the Yorkshire book.
Matt Edmundson: More grit. Yorkshire. Jesus was the yorkshireman is is what they tell me. Probably was, wasn't he? It was. So, um, well, I, this, I love that, that it was redemptive and that actually in the second child, it's one of those things, isn't it? As a Christian, you pray for God's, uh, blessing and you pray for what you think is the best. Um, and when that doesn't happen, how you respond is quite interesting.
Um, and I love the difference between the first one and the second one. So the first one, you pray for something and you feel all kinds of failure as a result. The second time it's like, well, I'm gonna pray for this, but I don't know what's gonna happen, but I'm gonna praise you anyway, uh, because God, I'm in your hands and actually, That's quite an extraordinary journey to take.
It takes people years sometimes to Do you know what I mean to sort of figure that whole thing out, uh, as a Christian. So what's your, um, out of all of this then, Beth, you know, um, what's your, what's been your takeaway, what's your one message? I mean, you spoke at church yesterday. Um, I, I dunno if they gave you a topic or whether you sat down and thought, oh, this will be the, you know, what I would talk about?
What's the, the thing, the overriding thing that God has taught you?
Beth Coppenhall: Oh gosh. I think, yeah, like some of the stuff that I've been talking about, really just like, I think it, do you know what it is? Like my blog is a lot about hearing God and like, you know, stay close to him. Hear him, like listen to what he's got to say to you.
Like he is the best friend you could ever, ever, ever, ever wish for. You know, like he's always been there. He's always got something to say to me about everything and the points that I struggled is the points where I've like, pushed him out a bit and like kept him at arms length. Like, but actually, you know, like he, he understood like he, he understood that I was upset about the birth trauma.
He knew I was going through what I needed. Like, um, and I think hearing God for yourself and, um, yeah, knowing your Bible and like not going with those feelings and not going with what other people tell. But just having your own faith and walking that journey with God is like, so, so like, so, so important.
I, I love to, I love to hear people like get God for themselves, you know, like, oh, hear him for themselves. Like, um, yeah, I think it's, yeah, really like, crucial.
Matt Edmundson: That's awesome. Yeah. So is that, if you could somehow magically, uh, go back in time and have a conversation with yourself as you are heading into hospital with, um, to give birth to Joy, is that the advice that you would give to yourself at that point?
Beth Coppenhall: Yeah, I'd just be like, Beth, like, be careful what you believe. Like stick close to God. Stay close to God. Like, and don't, don't read a book about God and think it's God. Like you. You know, like mm-hmm.. There's loads of books out there that say they're about God and maybe. They're about one person's version of God.
Like who's your God? Who is your God? Mm-hmm. stand close to him because the God of the Bible, like the God that you, that I met when I was in that room in university, like he's the one that's been faithful to me. And I think it's so important to have your own faith and to not get stuck in a bit of a comparison and not just absorb everything you read.
I think I'm a bit easily influenced sometimes.
Matt Edmundson: It's, well, it's, and it's not just you to me, I think, here's the thing about books, right? And the thing that I've noticed about books when you read them is especially Christian books or testimonial books as we like to call, but story books, they're always inspiring.
Because they, there's these amazing stories, amazing journeys that people go on and you, and they talk about why God did this and this breakthrough happened and that happened and it's all fantastic and wonderful. Um, but between those two mountain points, you know, this happened. It was amazing. This happened.
It was amazing. There's often big valleys. And times of just utter boredom. Yeah. Yeah. Do, you know what I mean and it's just the everyday grind of life, but you don't write about those in books because there's not enough space. You dunno what to say. You just want to tell the stories to encourage people and it's like, well, yes, this is my story, you know, and I wanna encourage you.
Um, it's why we do these podcasts, but it's the rest of it, you know, that we don't get to hear about. And when we just compare our lives where 80% of it's boring, 80% of it is routine, you know, to all these amazing stories that people have over here, we can come across or come, you know, some come off feeling quite bad.
And that's the danger of books. Uh, and, and I think as long as when we read a book, we understand that we're okay. And when you say, what is God saying to me throughout this whole thing, is, is probably the bit the biggest question to ask right?
Beth Coppenhall: Yeah. That is the biggest, and that is the question I asked before I blog up all the time.
I'm like, God, what are you saying to me this week? And I think if, if I could inspire people to say that question for themselves, like, that is what I want. That's who I wanna be, that's what I want. The message I wanna say like, because I think that yeah, if, if you know him as your friend, like, like that is one of the biggest things that changed my life.
You know, just knowing him as a friend. Like, and if when you are reading a book, you know, Ask him what he thinks about it. Don't just read it and be like, even if it's a really good book and like, you know, like the person is sound and they've got really good theology, like still ask him what he thinks about it because that makes stuff go from just reading it to actually being like, oh, I'm gonna like, yeah, understand it for myself.
I'm gonna like, Let it go in for myself. Mm.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. What does this mean for me? What are you saying to me? It's a really, it's a really interesting thing. I wish I had time to get into it a little bit more, but there's so much more to say on this. Um, Beth question for you. Oh, someone's at the door. Uh, imagine you are at the Oscars, right?
Yeah. And you've just won your, your lifetime achievement award or whatever it is, and you get a moment to thank those folks that have had a big impact on your life, whether family members, mentors, preachers, books, whatever it is. I'm curious, who are you thanking? Who are you who you stood up and saying, I want to thank dot, dot, dot and why?
Beth Coppenhall: Well, I think I've mentioned a few of them haven't I? Like, so obviously praying mom's out there, like my story started with a praying mom, so don't give up. Like, my mom is amazing. My dad became Christian when, soon after I did. Um, he's, he's always been amazing. Um, but you know, like you and Sharon like. You and Sharon.
Absolutely. Like I was thinking about this recently. Like you literally like, I dunno, anyone, I remember being in your house, Matt, and like you just let me be like. And I didn't really know who I was. I was messed, I was messed up, I was broken, I was lost. And like, you didn't need anything from me. You didn't want anything from me.
Like you, you guys just loved me and like, I've never experienced anything like it in my life. And you have been there since. I feel like I could cry, since day one. And like you've never given up on me or Terry. Like you've, you've never, you've always loved us. You've always. Sharon is such grace, and like sometimes you show me grace and I'm like, that's literally mind blowing.
Like, like Terry, look what's just happened. Like, oh look what Matt's just said. Like, oh look what, listen to what Sharon did today or like, you know, like, and I think, yeah, you'd get a massive thank you both of you. You, you have changed our lives. And I'm not just saying that cuz, cuz you do this podcast like.
Matt Edmundson: Cause you're the podcast host. Yeah. No, appreciate, uh, Beth, bless you. No, it's wonderful. It's very kind of you to say.
Beth Coppenhall: Yeah, it's true. But yeah, and then there's lots of other people on the way, isn't it? Like community, community is very important. and I'm very, very fortunate to be part of a really good community.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. And your husband obviously. Yeah. And your kids. You're the usual.
Beth Coppenhall: Oh, that's so bad. Don't believe you'd do this.
Matt Edmundson: No, he's never gonna let you live it down.
Beth Coppenhall: No, he is not. He actually won't let me live it down. He's just gonna be like, um, can't believe you didn't thank me on the podcast.
Matt Edmundson: Well, now's your time to say, you know, that you actually, you.
Beth Coppenhall: Thank you so much, Terry, for being with me through thick and thin. Yeah, they, I think me and Terry have been on like quite a journey where we've been through stuff together, so, um, yeah, like. It's a different kind of Thank you, isn't it? Like, obviously it's still a thank you, but like
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's, it's your life partner, isn't it?
And I think you and Terry are just wonderful people. Uh, and, um, it's, it's great to have you on the podcast. So thank you for joining us, Beth. Thank you for sharing your story. If people wanna reach out, if people wanna connect with you, what's the best way to do that?
Beth Coppenhall: Um, well, you can read all of what I've just said on my blog, bethcoppenhall.com.
You can read some moments of being like, why God? And also some moments of being like, wow, God did this amazing thing, and I think you can contact me on there as well.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, bethcoppenhall.com. Do check it out. Uh, very inspiring blog. And it is, you kinda, you do get sucked into the emotion, uh, of it all bit. Beth is a very good writer.
So, uh, yes, Beth, thank you so much for joining us. You've been an absolute legend. Uh, I'm looking forward to seeing what people say as a result of this coming out and, um, who listens to it. So, uh, we will of course, uh, link to Beth's info in the show notes, which you can get for free, along with the transcript, uh, at Crowd.Church, www.crowd.church.
Uh, or if you sign up to the newsletter, it will come direct to your inbox. If you're not signed up to the newsletter, sign up to the newsletter. Hashtag the same. Uh, so there you have it. Another fantastic conversation. Another huge brilliant, wonderful story. Uh, Beth, again, thank you for joining me. Now remember to check out Crowd online church at www.crowd.church, you know the domain.
Now, uh, even if you might not see the point of church, Crowd is a digital church, an online church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps us live a more meaningful life. Uh, we are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow. And you are welcome at Crowd Church, be sure to subscribe to what's the story wherever you get your podcast from, because we've got some great stories lined up and I do not want you to miss any of them.
And in case no one has told you yet today, dear listener viewer, you are awesome. Yes you are. It's just a burden you have to bear. Uh, Beth has to bear it. I have to bear it. We're just awesome. It's the way God made us fearfully and wonderfully made. Now what's The story is produced by Crowd Online Church. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app.
The team that makes this show possible is, Sadaf Beynon, Josh Catchpole, Estella Robin and Tim Johnson. Our theme song was written by the amazingly talented Josh Edmundson, and if you would like to read the transcript or show notes, as I said, head over to www.crowd.church where you can also sign up for our weekly newsletter and get all of this good stuff direct your inbox totally for free. That's it from me. That's it from Beth. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week. Bye for now.