03: God’s Loving Pursuit

What's the Story

30 Aug

Today’s Guest: Sharon Edmundson

Sharon is from Liverpool, England. She has three grown kids and she loves to teach English to refugees and asylum seekers. Her desire is to see those with broken lives find restoration in Jesus. Sharon enjoys spending time with her family and friends.

Here’s a summary of this week’s story:

Sharon's story is a testimony to the faithfulness of God even when we doubt, fear and face difficult times. In her story, Sharon shares how she was raised in a Christian home and came to believe in God at an early age. Despite this, she still experienced doubts, fears and difficult times. However, what ultimately got her through these tough times was her faith in God. Even when she didn't feel like God was there, she knew that He was faithful and would never leave her.
Sharon's story also serves as a reminder that faith isn't a feeling; it's a decision to trust God, even when we don't understand what He is doing. We all go through difficult times, when our faith is tested and we feel alone and afraid. But even in those times, God lovingly pursues His children.
She says, “God is real and amazing. He created the world and everything in it so He's got something to say about every aspect of life. It's not about having a little bit of faith on the side to make us feel good. Instead, God wants to be involved in every aspect of life and his involvement actually makes life work.”

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Matt Edmundson: Well, hello there. My name is Matt Edmundson and welcome to What's the Story, a podcast where we hear stories about faith and courage from everyday people. And today that conversation is going to be with one of my favourite people on the planet. My beautiful, beautiful wife. And we're going to be talking about what it's like to trust God, even when we don't understand what He is doing. Have you ever been there before? You're going to want to check this out. Yes, you are. Now today's episode is brought to you by Crowd Church, which is an online church, online because not everybody can get into a church building and let's be honest, not everybody sees the point of going to church. Not everybody sees the point of going into a building. Doesn't make sense. And this is where online church works really, really well. It's super accessible and it is a safe space to explore the Christian faith and the thing that I love about Crowd is that it is online first meaning that we talk with you and not just at you, you can join in the conversation and ask your questions. Yes, you can. So regardless of where you are on your faith journey, I reckon it's worth checking in out. And if you want to know more information about Crowd Church, head over to www.crowd.church, or just email me directly at matt@crowd.church with any questions that you've got. Now, before I get into today's conversation. I just want to give you a few more links that are going to be worth checking out. One of my favourite talks that Sharon has ever done here at Crowd is learning how to forgive totally changed my life. So check that one out. She also did a great talk called what does the Bible say about anger? Both of those are available for free on our website. So head over.
Now Sharon is, well, she lives in Liverpool with me, which is good news. We've got three grown kids and my beautiful wife loves to teach English to refugees and asylum seekers. Her desire is to see those with broken lives find restoration in Jesus. Sharon enjoys spending time with her family, with her friends. And with yours truly. Yes, she does. So without further ado, here is my conversation with my beautiful wife.
So, welcome to Crowd stories. I am talking to the beautiful, beautiful lady, which is my wife, Sharon. Sharon Edmundson, who I rarely call by her actual name. And so if during this interview, I slip the word babe, or something equal during the conversation, please forgive me. But that's just what we call each other in the house. Rarely do I call her Sharon unless, unless what? I guess, unless you're in trouble, right?
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. Not even then really, it's just very rare. I'm always a bit confused and everyone else is a bit confused.
Matt Edmundson: It's like, what's going on? We don't get it. We don't understand it. So we're, we are doing this interview. So I've been looking forward to this one. I'm not going to lie. I think this is great. So let's start like we'd like to start with most people at the start of your journey, your Christian journey. How did you become a Christian? What's the sort of, what led up to that decision of faith for you?
Sharon Edmundson: Well, I've grown up in a Christian family. So went to church since I was born. And I think as a child just always believed in God. So I'd always chat to him and yeah, I'd read my Bible and I loved it. But the church I was part of, we used to go on holidays together every summer, which was fabulous. I've got great memories of that. And the adults used to have meetings, I think most evenings, where they would get together, they would sing songs to God. They would do Bible stuff and other things. And I remember going on one of these holidays when I was, I think I was 15. And so the adults would be having their meetings, but I would be off with my friends down the beach, because we were like, oh, that's all boring. I think we got pestered that much that on the last evening of this particular holiday, the Friday night, we gave in and decided we would go along to this meeting and wasn't expecting anything in particular. But during this meeting, I just had this, like amazing sense of God's presence. And I just had this sense that I had to decide for myself whether I was going to follow him or not. And that up till that point to a certain extent that I've been relying on my parents' faith, but that that was no longer an option. I can't really explain it anymore than that. It was just this really strong sense that that's what I had to. And, I think I spent all night, like tossing and turning about this decision because I, on the one hand I really wanted to, but on the other hand, I didn't, because I felt like I'd be giving up control of my life. If I was giving it over to God. That was a bit scary to be honest. But finally I made that decision, and it was an amazing thing. Again, I just really felt God's presence. I had this sense of peace. Yeah. And from then on, like when I used to open the Bible and I'd read bits and it was just like, it came to life. Like it had been written that day just for me. And so that was fabulous.
Matt Edmundson: So this is when you are, this is when you are 15 years old. And which interestingly, our daughter is 15 years old now. As you're, as you're saying that, I'm thinking, oh wow, we have a 15-year-old daughter. And so you have these great memories of church holidays every summer. And I guess, are you hanging out with the same people at these church holidays or are you meeting new people? Is that why they're fun?
Sharon Edmundson: It's mainly friends that were part of the same church. So I got to hang out with my mates really and be at the sea and yeah, it was just, it was a sense of community and it was just a fun time and yeah, it was good.
Matt Edmundson: So you had this sort of sense of community, you were hanging out, and your parents and all the olds were badgering you about attending the meetings rather than going to the beach. And so one day you kind of sat there in this meeting and you used this phrase, you had this sort of sense of God's presence. What does that mean to you? When you say sense of God's presence, what does that mean? What is that evoking? What memories are you recalling there?
Sharon Edmundson: Oh, this is such a difficult question to answer. Because emotion, I think emotion is involved, but it felt like more than that, it was just this inner sense of knowing something really strongly. And that hadn't been there before. It just sort of landed on me in a sense, yeah, I can't think how else to describe it really.
Matt Edmundson: No, it's fascinating that it sort of, it landed on you and you'd not experienced this feeling before. It's not like it was an everyday occurrence. This was the first time it had happened.
Sharon Edmundson: I don’t know if it was the first time of sensing God's presence. This was definitely a significant time because of, I just had this really strong sense that I had to make a decision. And it wasn't that anybody was saying that, nobody in the room was telling me that, that wasn't what anyone had spoken about. It was just something within me that just went, you have to decide. You've been living on your parents' faith to a certain extent and, or sort of like, yeah, just pottering on with life and chatting to God. But I hadn't really done that sense of completely giving myself over to him. And I think that was what I was sensing then that I needed to do that, that I had a decision to make.
Matt Edmundson: So you had to sort of surrender control, which is very hard for a 15 year old to do, regardless of where they are in the world. And you sort of have this sense to surrender control, which is interesting and you again use this phrase giving everything to God. So at this point you would say that you were Christian or you had some kind of sense of faith, but you needed to make a decision to step out from the shadow of your parents' faith and live it for yourself. Is that a fair reflection?
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, I think so. I think it was that this sense of actually surrendering my whole life, not just chatting to God about stuff I want to talk about, but also being willing to listen to him and saying, okay, God, I will do whatever you want me to do. I'll go where you send me, that kind of thing that trusting, that actually God had a good plan and that he's good. And that if he tells me to do anything, it is for good. And not because he is nasty.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. So you've made this decision after a sort of a sleepless night. And did you sense then afterwards, God was telling you to do something that, that was not there before? So you sort of feel like you've surrendered control of your life. So does that mean the next day you feel like, oh, I've now got to go be a missionary to China or whatever, or was the next day almost the same?
Sharon Edmundson: I can't remember anything in particular. I think in a sense it was my fear. Oh, God's going to go and say do this really tricky thing, but actually there wasn't any of that. It was just a sense of peace and like, okay, I've decided and it's okay because God is good. And he's got a good plan for my life and I'm in good hands. But yeah, there's nothing particular.
Matt Edmundson: That's interesting. Isn't it? So you've kind of gone from this sort of wrestling with decision once it's been made, then there's this huge sense of peace. And calm. So what happens next? You're 15 years old. You've made this decision. What's the sort of the next part of the journey?
Sharon Edmundson: I think I got baptized about a year later. I think when I was 16. I am saying, I think, it's all very vague.
Matt Edmundson: That's funny. Isn't it? How old, when you get older, you forget just a lot of things that happened in your teenage years. No, it's fair play. So you get baptized around 16, we think.
Sharon Edmundson: Yes. And then it was all downhill from there.
Matt Edmundson: So, we'll come to that. No doubt. But the baptism, what made you do, were you not sort of baptized as a kid?
Sharon Edmundson: No. In our church we didn't do that. I was part of a Baptist church, and the Baptists, very much believe that you make that decision as an adult and you get baptized by full immersion in the water as is described in the Bible when John the Baptist, he would baptize people in the, is it the river or?
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. River Jordan. Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: So that's what we did in our church.
Matt Edmundson: What, you went to the river Jordan?
Sharon Edmundson: Not the river Jordan. No, that would've been quite cool, but no. We had, because it was a Baptist church, we had a Baptistry in the church, so basically a part of the floor lifted up and underneath it was like a very small pool.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah where you got baptized.
Sharon Edmundson: Big enough to dunk you in.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. It's very different to the river Jordan. It's not even the river Thames, is it? So, you know, never mind. So you get baptized at 16. So the, the year, so it's about a year then. Um, and I don’t know if you can remember, but that year between making that decision and getting baptized, was that a good year?
Sharon Edmundson: I can't remember much about it, to be honest, I think there wasn't, there's nothing that sticks out either very good or very bad. So yeah,
Matt Edmundson: Just is what it is. Okay. So then you make this, you made this comment that it all went downhill from the moment you get baptized. What do you mean by that phrase? And, oh, the question of course, on everybody's mind is, is this when you met Matt? So, is that why it all went downhill?
Sharon Edmundson: No, no, that was much later.
Matt Edmundson: Let's get that clear. Let's clear that out straightaway. So yeah, it goes, it goes a bit peak to, what's cracking off here?
Sharon Edmundson: I think. I don’t know if it was just an age thing or whether there's something about baptism that just brings more of a challenge in your face. Cause I've heard of quite a few people after they got baptized, then drift away, whereas they were very sure beforehand so I don’t know. Yeah. I don’t know whether it was that, but also I think being 16 by then, it's the sort of age where you do question things. So, I think there was a mixture of things. I had a lot of questions about life that I didn't really couldn't answer. I think there was a lot of stuff going on in this church, which wasn't necessarily good. And again, I can't really remember what I can't remember whether it was. Me and my thinking or whether it was an actual reality, but I got to the point I was fed up off church, not necessarily God. And I think also there were just things in my life that I didn't really know how to deal with that were just sort of under the surface. So with all of those going on, I kind of drifted away. I didn't lose my faith, but I definitely drifted for quite a while.
Matt Edmundson: So what does that, but what does that mean? You didn't lose your faith. So you'd still say you're, you had a Christian faith at this point, but drifted away means what?
Sharon Edmundson: I think I didn't necessarily go to church. And faith wasn't necessarily part of my everyday life. It was like, I carry on living my life and God was off on the side somewhere rather than being full center.
Matt Edmundson: Okay. So how long does this go on for, this sort of drift?
Sharon Edmundson: Well, when I was 18, I went away to study. So I studied to be an occupational therapist down in Exeter and I went to this little college of occupational therapy that had just become attached to Exeter. Not really. So it was sort of separate and sort of connected. So I didn't really have much to do with the actual university, but I was on this course and so many people on that course were Christians, it was incredible. Like this really big proportion. And so I think through friendships with those different people, they kind of helped keep me a little bit engaged with faith. So I think if it hadn't been for them, I might have walked away completely and just sort of forgotten maybe about God, about faith. But they kept it in my thinking and in my memory,
Matt Edmundson: That's a really interesting, an interesting thing to say because, I would've sort of forgotten about God. So a lot of people sort of our age, would've gone to Sunday school and they would, there are these experiences that people have of God when they're kids through kids church or whatever that they, they accept at that point in time, because it's what we call a childlike faith. Isn't it? This sort of childlike acceptance that as you grow older, you talked about the questions of life you can't answer. You talked about sort of drifting. Not being that enamoured with the church and a few sort of realities start to hit home as you grow, you know, the world's not sunshine and rainbows like it is maybe when you're younger and then you sort of have this ability to forget God. But, one of the things that notoriously keeps people on track, and you've mentioned it is friendships and the friendships that surround, you know, the people that surround you as you grow up, become super critical. I know when I was at Uni, I'd just become a Christian. I wasn't a very different story from you, but it was the friends around me that made a big difference to my life and my walk with God. And I think, I see that with our kids, you know, it's the friends, isn't it around them that have had a big impact on their lives? And that's super, super critical.
Sharon Edmundson: I say that I would've forgotten God. I don't think I actually ever could. Because I think there would always be this little sense of God in the background and this sense of something missing. You know, when you just try and ignore something, like put it out of your mind. You can't completely get it out, but it's more in the background.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. You can't get it out. And again, a lot of people, the stories that I've heard is they. There is that niggle that is maybe perhaps there, they've sort of forgotten about God, drifted away. And, but there is this niggle and so they try and fill it with something else. Don't they? And there is this, this quest, this search for a meaningful life, which some people would turn to sex. Some people turn to drink, some people would turn to partying and some people would turn to, I don't know, kayaking down the Ganges. I don't, whatever it is, you know, there's all these different things that people try and fill that void with, but it is quite fascinating. Isn't it? That, that yes, we can drift, but ultimately, there's something there in the back of your head, a little voice, trying to sort of go hello? yeah, I'm still here. So the friends that you had at Exeter Uni, tell me a bit about them.
Sharon Edmundson: There's one in particular that comes to mind, and just, she just seemed to have a really strong faith in God. And I think it's seeing God do lots of things in her life. And so she was just a real encouragement to me. I was just like, oh, maybe, you know, maybe there is, maybe this does work. Maybe this is real. And actually, so I lost contact with her after that, but I met up with her for the first time in 29 years, a few weeks ago, because I was back down in Exeter again. And, that was fabulous to meet up with her. And then other friends, we didn't have halls as part of our little college. Everybody lived out in houses and quite often there would be a house with two Christians in and two non-Christians. And by the end they were all Christians. So, I mean, it really was, there was a high proportion.
Matt Edmundson: That's great. So, the friend that you met up with a few weeks ago, is she still strong in her Christian faith as well?
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: And so you are, you are sort of sat there reminiscing about old times, I take it and just remembering the good old days? What's, what's the memory that sticks out with the two of you?
Sharon Edmundson: Oh, I think going on, going on walks and we used to have a Christian, is it Christian Union? I'm not sure. A bunch of us went away for a weekend. And that was really cool. I remember doing walks there and just her family lived on the outskirts of Exeter in an old farmhouse. So, yeah, we'd all, loads of us would pile there and spend some time. That's actually where she's still living. So it was great to go back and see that.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic. So you hang out with these friends throughout your time at Uni, which is what, three years?
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: And your Christian faith is sort of, is it growing at this point? Is it getting stronger? What's going on?
Sharon Edmundson: I wouldn't say it's getting stronger. I would say it was hanging on. And so, and I never really got stuck into a church, particularly, part of the reason for that was that we had two placements every year and they could be anywhere within the south of England. So I had placements in Kent, in London, in Gloucester, Cornwall. Do you know what I mean? They were really spread out. So it, it felt like quite disjointed. You'd be in one place for a few weeks or a few months, and then you'd be in another place. And so you weren't actually always in Exeter, yeah.
Matt Edmundson: So you didn't get stuck into a church, or plugged into a church, but you have got Christian friends around you. And again, we know that when people go to Uni that getting stuck into a church and the friendship groups around you really help you grow and strengthen your Christian faith. But you make this phrase that you are hanging on. Why, why are you hanging on at this point?
Sharon Edmundson: I think that's a good question. I think, because underneath all my doubts, I had a sense that it could be true and I didn't want to just let go of something that was true. And I think also it's like faith, in some senses actually does make a lot of sense of the world. In spite of the fact that I had all these other questions, I feel like quite often, I've got, I had these two things going on, like almost like pulling me in different directions. So there was that sense that actually this is true and this is very solid. But then on the other hand, there. , but what about this? And what about that? And these questions and these doubts. And I had the Christian friends around me who were helping me to stick with faith, but on the other hand stuff that we were doing in our, in the course, so we, we studied psychology and psychiatry as part of the course. And within those, there were things that I think I remember reading a book to do with depression as part of the course. And I think again, it's like I don't know whether this is what my mind is saying happened or whether it actually happened but I think there are things in the book where it was saying, you know, some people have got this faith and if that helps them, then that's okay. But we all know it's not really true. That kind of vibe, even if it wasn't those specific words and it, there were lots of things like that that just made me go, is this just all made up? Am I making this up? So again, it was like friends helping me with my faith, but then other things sort of pulling me away, pulling me away and making me doubt and question and having to wrestle with everything.
Matt Edmundson: So you have this, these two things, these two things pulling you apart. One is this element of knowing it's true and solid. And the other one is, hang on. I have doubts. I have questions. I'm reading scientific literature that is maybe telling me that this is all false. Am I missing something? Am I a crackpot here? You know, and I think most Christians would talk about this sort of am I, is this some kind of global conspiracy? And I'm the only person that's not really figured this out yet. And you, you do have these doubts and these wrestling doubts. So some of the things that you were questioning, what were some of these doubts? Was it to do with the existence of God? Was it to do, I don't know, the justice of God? What was causing the questions and the doubts?
Sharon Edmundson: I think the main underlying thing was does God actually exist? That was a major thing for me. And then I think after reading that book, there was a period of time where I was just like, no, God doesn't exist. And that was a very dark time. And it wasn't actually based on any research. It was just that I think this book had put some doubts in my mind and I didn't really know how to investigate that or look at it and look at the Fors and the Against. I just, at that point in my life, I very much lived on my emotions. So if my emotions said something wasn't true, one day I'd be like, oh, it's not true. And if my emotion said it was true the next day, or if it felt true, I would believe it. So my faith in God became very rocky. Some days I believed in other days I didn't, but it was all totally based on my emotions, which now looking back I'm like, that makes no sense at all, because either God does exist or he doesn't. And how I feel about the matter, doesn't actually change the reality of that. But at the time, I didn't know how to do that. And there were lots of things as well that I didn't know how to deal with. So, like stuff in my past. And, because I didn't know how to deal with it, I was quite a mess inside. I think on the outside, I might have looked okay. I'd have to ask other people to check that one out, I guess. But on the inside, I was a mess and again, I was living with this tension of hearing things like God's a God of love and, he's a God of freedom, but I wasn't experiencing that. So again, these two things, opposites almost like pulling in different directions. And that was quite a, quite troubling for me really.
Matt Edmundson: So, wow. Again, and this is not something that is uncommon to everybody else. Although it feels, I think, oftentimes it's just you that's struggling with this. I hear this about God, but my experience seems to be this. And I'm, I'm trying to hold these two things in here and I, I don't know what to do with it. So on one end, I hear that God is good. On the other hand, I see and experience maybe suffering. On one hand, I hear that God heals. On the other hand, I feel ill. I hear that God sets people free, but on the other hand, I feel like I'm caught in a prison somehow in my thinking or in my mind. And so what we hear about God and what we experience about God can often be quite different things. And so, how are you coping with this, with this tension? What is it actually doing to you?
Sharon Edmundson: Well, I think I spent several years living it in a repeating cycle and that cycle was, I would try and get close to God. And as I did that, I'd feel like my mind was going completely nuts and out of control. And then I'd get angry with God and going. I'm trying to get close to you. Why are you doing this to me? So then I'd back off and I'd feel better. So once I felt better, I'd be like, oh, let's try and go for God again. And then I just did, and basically I did that for years, really until I was, I must have been about 23, 24, and I got to the point of like, okay, God, I've had enough of this now. And I basically gave God an ultimatum. I said, either you sort this or I'm leaving and you can forget this whole faith thing. And for other reasons as well at the time. So after I finished studying Exeter, I worked in Cornwall as an occupational therapist. And that's where I was when I gave God this ultimatum. And I actually started seeing a counselor while I was down there. And I think through just through talking to her as well, I realized that I needed to get out of Liverpool for a number, not Liverpool, Cornwall for a number of reasons. So I combined that with my ultimatum for God. And so I started looking at year teams that different Christian organizations were running and I went for different interviews in different parts of the UK. And then I came for an interview for a team in Liverpool. And, it was one of these bizarre, significant times again, because as soon as I drove into Liverpool, I was absolutely certain that this was where God wanted me to be. At that point, I wasn't even sure that God existed. So, it was this big contrast of, again, these two opposite things. Completely sure God's saying this, but not sure that God exists, so
Matt Edmundson: Oh, the irony, of that statement. But we've all been there. And I'm sure that, I'm sure everyone can, well, a lot of us can attest to situations like that. So you are, you are sort of in the, you're in this roller coaster of things going on, you give God this ultimatum and the, so the way you are giving God this one last chance is to do this Christian year. So it's do a year team with a church, which is basically where you do something for a year solid. That is church related, right? They're quite a popular thing. And so you're looking around and there's one in Liverpool and you drive to Liverpool and go, man, I'm supposed to be here, in quite an unusual way. So you've driven to Liverpool all the way from Cornwall, which is not an insignificant journey when you live in England. And so what happened? You arrive in Liverpool. What happened?
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, I can't remember what, there was an interview. We got to hang out with different people. Can't remember much more than that. But the outcome of it was that I got a place on this team. So then I, I think I sold practically everything that I had. We had to save up a certain amount of money to do the course because it included your accommodation and your food and everything else. So it was a few thousand pounds which I don't think I had any savings. So I started saving. And then eventually, I actually sold my car, because that was the only thing I had worth selling to come up. So I was like, I'm all in. Okay. God, I'm all in. You do what you like, but if this doesn't work after this year, that's it, I've had it with, I've had it with you.
Matt Edmundson: So do you think you would've done it though? Do you think at the end of that year, you would've gone? If nothing had happened, you'd have. Yeah, that's it, I'm out.
Sharon Edmundson: I think, suppose in some ways would, I think. I would've been angry enough at that point to, yeah. It's like, I'm open and you're not doing anything. So if you're not interested, I think it would've been that, you're not interested in me. So I'm not interested in you. I think it would've been like that.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Fair enough. It's interesting, isn't it? To wonder what avenues life would've taken, but obviously you didn't go down that path because here you are, helping me run Crowd Church. So something obviously has happened along the way. Sorry, spoiler alert, you know, the ending, as we're going through the story. So what was the team? What happened that year which transformed everything?
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. So there were basically eight of us on the team and we all lived in a house together and there'll be two people sharing a room, because the idea was that you had Bible teaching and everything else, but it was also very much about being in God's presence and listening to what he's saying, getting a sense of that, letting him do a deep work in our own life. And I think they wanted us to share a room so that there was no escape wherever you were, there was somebody there. So it wasn't like you could just go off in your room and forget about everything you had to face stuff. And as well as all the teaching and prayer and all the rest of it, we got involved in different projects that the church was doing at the time. So there was a soup kitchen for the homeless. I think there was youth work. There was kids work. And we went on different trips as well. I think there was quite a few other bits as well. And that's actually where we met. Wasn't it?
Matt Edmundson: It was. Yeah. Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: And, so that year was probably one of the worst years of my life.
Matt Edmundson: Not because you met me. I just, again, want to clarify.
Sharon Edmundson: No, no, not because of that.
Matt Edmundson: People listening, that was the year we met, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It was the worst year of my life.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, so one of the worst years and also one of the best years of my life.
Matt Edmundson: Obviously. Yeah. We'll come to that. I know. I have no doubt.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. So I think it was one of the worst because, my take on it is that God took me seriously. And so all the rubbish that had been in my life that I didn't know how to deal with, that was the year to start to actually deal with it and look at what was there. And, there was a lot of rubbish and lot of rubbish, and I think there's probably, I think three main things that I come away with from that year. I'm sure there are more, but the three are repentance, forgiveness, and faith, which were three major things. So repentance just means actually taking responsibility for where I've missed God's standard, where I've done things or not done things that actually are good to do, or you know, that God wants us to do.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, and I didn't actually really like that very much. The second one was forgiveness and this was a major, major thing for me because like I'd grown up hearing about forgiveness, having grown up in a church, but I actually didn't really understand how to properly forgive. It's like I would mentally say, oh yeah, I forgive them. But actually, deep down in my heart, I hadn't. All the rubbish was still there. And, it was during that year that I really learned how to forgive properly. And there's a fabulous parable, which I've actually done a talk on for Crowd. So it's somewhere out there.
Matt Edmundson: Somewhere on the ether, on the YouTube channel.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. And then there's a fabulous book called Forgive, release and be free by Joff Day. And again, I can't remember whether I learned this first and then found the book or the other way around. But that book talks about how, when somebody does something wrong to us, we have this sense that they owe us something. And that was a bit that I'd been missing in previously when I tried to forgive people, it's that connecting with the emotion of what you feel owed. And so I'd actually then start writing down, you know, what the person had done. What I felt that they owed me. And then the parable talks about settling accounts. So it's almost like you have, like somebody owes you money. And when you settle the accounts, either they pay you the money or you can go, actually, I'm going to let you off that debt. You don't owe me that anymore. And you like scrub it out. And the parable talks about how forgiveness is like that. So it's not, they might not owe you money, but they might owe you something else. And that person may never, ever pay what they owe. They may never say, they're sorry, but you can actually still cancel their debt. And that it was that sense of, okay, I'm going to write off that debt. They don't owe me that anymore. And really connecting with the emotion of how that felt that brought me freedom. And that was actually really hard to do because there had been a lot of stuff that had been there for years, that was very deep and partly, I didn't want to forgive because I knew that if I forgave, I'd have to take responsibility for how I was, but at that time, because I hadn't forgiven, I was just saying, well, all my faults are a result of what they have done and I'm not going to take responsibility for them. So yeah, that was really hard for me to do. And initially, when I first got a hold of this forgiveness thing, it used to take me, I think. Maybe a couple of weeks or more to actually forgive somebody of one little thing because it was so ingrained of not forgiving that it was really hard, but the more I practiced it, the easier that got. So, that was the second thing. We've done repentance, forgiveness. The third one was faith, I think, because, like I said before, up until that point, I'd lived on my emotions. If I felt something, I would go with that. And so I was all over the place. Whereas that year I really learned that things are true regardless of how I feel about them. And I can choose what I believe. I can choose to believe truth. Obviously, I don't want to believe something that's not true, so I can choose to believe truth. And then if I keep on doing that, eventually my emotions will follow. And again, that was like a major, major thing for me. And when I first got a hold of this, my mind was such a mess that just trying to hang onto one thing that's true, it was hard because yeah, my emotions would take me all over. And I think from, so I think we started the team in the September or October. And from then until about the following Easter, my mind felt like it was a battle like every second of the day because where it had been used to just doing whatever it wanted and going down any little rabbit trail that it wanted, I was sort of trying to bring it in line with actual truth. And in this case, obviously I believed that things that the Bible says are true. So it was okay, lining up my mind with that. And then when I did that, eventually they got to this breakthrough point where I realized I wasn't having to purposefully think about this anymore. It would just follow. And there was this like amazing sense of freedom and clarity. And it's like, phew, at last. And there's that verse in the Bible that talks about, if you continue in my word, this is Jesus talking. If you continue in my word, you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free. And that was definitely my experience at that point.
Matt Edmundson: So this is fascinating, isn't it? Because you are, a year earlier, you are giving God this ultimatum because you are hearing about the God that sets people free, but you are not experiencing it. And then you spend this year in this team, which is the worst year of your life, to quote yourself. But in that difficulty, in that hardness, you seem to have, you seem to have found the freedom that you weren't experiencing before. Have I understood that correctly?
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, definitely.
Matt Edmundson: And so, it's interesting that your three lessons, repentance, forgiveness, and faith are, in effect the three lessons everyone needs to learn, especially in the Christian faith, because repentance, you've got to acknowledge God, you know, I need you and take responsibility for the stuff that you've done in the past. Forgiveness, you've got to receive God's forgiveness and, and then you've got to walk by faith, right? So this is the key to becoming a Christian, but you seem to have taken that and applied that, not just to your relationship with God, but your relationship with people around you that you are holding onto this sort of unforgiveness with, right?
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, definitely. And that parable that I mentioned before actually talks about, there was a servant in the parable, in the story that had been forgiven a lot. But refused to forgive. And it says in there, I will hand him over to the torturers and it, I definitely, again, experienced that sense of being tortured in my mind when I held onto unforgiveness, it's like, okay, this is real life. This is actually describing life as it is. And I think, yeah, I think we can all experience that if we hold onto unforgiveness, actually it damages us on the inside. It may hurt other people as well, but ultimately it damages us.
Matt Edmundson: Wow. So how are you then at the end of this year team? Have you, are we at that point of the journey where you've gone, God I'm all in now I gave you the ultimatum, you came through. I'm all in, or was that further down the line or was that part way through the year? Where, when did that happen?
Sharon Edmundson: I think going on the team was I'm all in make this work. It was, God did make it work. And I think, um, the three things that I mentioned before, the repentance, faith and forgiveness, it's like you say, they're all kind of the building blocks of the Christian faith. And I'd heard about them for years, but I didn't know how to actually do them for myself. And on that year, that team, I think I had people around me who understood spiritual things and how they worked. And they were prepared to ask me the hard questions and they were prepared to poke me and go, you sound like you've not forgiven that person, what you going to do about it? And it was a bit like, I was really angry with them to begin with it's like, I had a lot of anger in me, but it was all squashed down. So like all of this stuff came out of the, yeah, it was a lot of horrible stuff that was lurking.
Matt Edmundson: It's interesting when you talk about forgiveness and you said you wrote down the name of the person, what they did to you and what you feel owed? I think this was quite a revelation to me when I was asking this question, you know, well, you've done me wrong, but what do you feel like they owed you and connecting with that? So what were some of the things that you were, that you felt like you were owed?
Sharon Edmundson: Again, this is quite a difficult question because it's like, I know forgiveness is not necessarily forgetting, but for me, because I have forgiven and it's been a long time ago now, I actually have quite a hard time remembering what it was. And what happened and what I felt owed.
Matt Edmundson: That's fantastic.
Sharon Edmundson: It's really hard for me to do that. Now I could probably sit here in, you know, if you give me like 10 minutes or so I could probably go, okay. Yeah, I'll come up with that. But actually, in my experience, the memory is still there, but it's so much in the background, I'd have to make effort to remember it.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's great. Isn't it? It's like forgiveness is not forgetting, but actually in forgiveness you can become forgetful. And okay, so you finished the team. You're a young, beautiful lady. You've met this dashing young fellow whilst you're on the team. What happens next? Where does the story go from there?
Sharon Edmundson: Good question. Where does it go? So yeah. So in the team, it felt like all the rubbish got cleared out and I learned new ways. I learned God's ways of doing life. And initially, I felt a bit like a child learning to walk, where you get up and you walk a few step, a few steps, and then you fall down. So I, my mind would be like fabulous for a while. And then something would happen and it would send me into kind of a relapse for a little bit and then I'd get back up. Okay. Okay. I know what to do now with this. Walk a few more steps. Something else happened, fall down, but gradually the time between those falls would get further and further apart until it'd be like, oh, I can't remember the last time now when you know, my brain was really not in a very good place. And so, I think that was the next little bit.
Matt Edmundson: The learning to walk out this faith that you discovered on this year out team.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. And then after the team, I was, I just prayed and I said, okay, God, what do you want me to do now? And I had peace about getting a part-time job working as an occupational therapist in Liverpool and also working for the church part-time doing kids work. So that's what I did for a few years. And also got together with a dashingly handsome young man.
Matt Edmundson: Dashingly handsome young man, and then you met me. So, we got together, we got married in 98, in 1998. And, we'd been engaged for about 10 months. We'd been going out about five months before that. So, we'd not been, we'd not been together long before we decided to get married. We then get married obviously. Life is all dreamy and roses. Isn't it? From this point onwards or is it?
Sharon Edmundson: No, I think sometimes we can have this expectation, can't we? If we're a Christian and God's on our side, then things should all be great and no problems, but actually Jesus promised that we'd have problems. So yeah, life has its ups and downs. Isn't it? It has its good bits. It has its challenges. Yeah. And I think faith wise, so on that team, I think I learned a lot of actually how God's kingdom works and how he makes life work. But since then I've looked more into those big questions of, okay so obviously by then I did, I believed God existed cause I had, I'd had real experience and I'd seen how following his word actually made a massive difference in my life. But there was also the intellectual side that was like, okay, I want to develop that a little bit more. So I studied a lot more like okay, what is actually the evidence for God's existence? And what about suffering? What is the answer to that from Christian worldview? And, looking at all those questions, like what is our purpose? All the big questions I've just delved into a lot more so that hopefully, my spirit, soul, emotions and the intellect are all working together in the same direction. Cause the Bible talks about loving God with all your I'm going to get the quote wrong now with all your heart, mind, and soul. Yeah. So it is, it's about all those things. It's about, it's about using your brain. You don't have to take your brain out to be a Christian. You're meant to use it as well. And I love that as well. That side of things.
Matt Edmundson: So, you, it's interesting, isn't it? You sort of, you've gone through this incredible journey. You grew up in a Christian home, but that didn't exclude you from having to figure all this stuff out for yourself and having to go through maybe some difficult times to try and process what God was doing in your life. Was that the year team, say it again, sorry?
Sharon Edmundson: I cut you off then. Yeah, I think it's really important if you actually, in some ways I can envy people who just believe and never really doubt, but in some ways, for some people that can actually be quite a shallow faith. I think it's not a bad thing to actually have the questions and to have the doubts and to look into this and go, okay, is this true? And to investigate and check it out. I think that's actually very important.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it is. It is important to wrestle with the whole thing. So in terms of life's challenges, you obviously have a big challenge with the year team. Has there been any other huge challenge that you've had to face since then, besides being married to me, which is just a whole new level of complication we won't get into in this conversation?
Sharon Edmundson: You're easy babe. There have been challenges, haven't there? I think there was the time when we weren't sure whether you would have a job or not. And I was about to give up work to have our first child Josh and our lodgers were moving out. So it's like all sources of income were potentially about to disappear. So that was a challenge. Sleepless nights was definitely a challenge. Yeah, I'm trying to think of big things. I think I've said before when Zoe, our youngest was a baby, she wasn't sleeping that well at all. And there was lots of other things going on in life. That was definitely a very big challenge. And I got to a place of not being very healthy mentally at that point as well. And it actually took somebody to remind me of the things that I just talked about and to go back to those, to actually start dealing with things which was helpful.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I remember those days very well, with Zoe and the amazing effect that lack of sleep has, from our third child, which she is incredibly proud of, when we talked to her about it, she's like, yes, cool.
Sharon Edmundson: And she is fabulous.
Matt Edmundson: Oh, she is. She's amazing. And we definitely don't get sleepless nights anymore. So I guess if there's, if there's one thing that you've learned, if there's your life lesson, to put it in that terms, one overarching theme that sort of threads through all the things that God has taught you, what would that be?
Sharon Edmundson: Oh, I think it is that God is actually real and amazing and because he's created the world and everything, actually, he's got something to say about every aspect of life. It's not just that we can have a little bit of faith on the side to make us feel good. It's actually, God wants to be involved in every aspect of life and actually involving him, makes life work, doesn't make it necessarily easy. Sometimes it can make it more difficult. But it, it does work and it can be exciting. It's not always exciting. I think there's also, sometimes life there is just the things that we have to do every day that, you know, the monotonous things that is just as much life as the exciting things. But yeah, I think God in everything, maybe.
Matt Edmundson: Very good. Very good. Well, babe, listen, thank you for joining me, from the other side of our house on video so we can record this, which is fascinating when we do it like this. Normally I speak to people somewhere else. And so, this setup makes sense, but when it's you and me, it's a little bit bizarre. But it's, it is what it is. Thank you for joining me from the other room and sharing your story.
Sharon Edmundson: You're welcome.
Matt Edmundson: If you would like to hear more from my beautiful wife, you can check out Sharon's stories and talks on the Crowd Church website, www.crowd.church. I can't even say it, and just search for Sharon Edmundson and all the stuff will come up. All the talks you've done, especially the ones on forgiveness, which were, I have to say, and I'm trying not to be biased, but they were phenomenal. Great talk. So do check them out. But that's it from us on this week's Crowd story. Babe, thank you very, very much.
Sharon Edmundson: You're welcome. Goodbye.
Matt Edmundson: So, there you have it. What a great story. Huge thanks again to my beautiful bride Sharon Edmundson for joining me today. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from, because we have some great stories about faith and courage from everyday people lined up. And I just don't want you to miss any of them. And whilst you are there, make sure you also subscribe to the Crowd Church livestream. Come say hi in the comments. It'll be great to see you there. If you want to know more about our livestream, there's more information on our website, www.crowd.church. Yes, there is. And just in case, no one has told you today, you, my friend, are awesome. Yes. Utterly, utterly awesome. It's a burden we all have to bear just because that's the way God made us, you know, we're fearfully, wonderfully made. And so just have to accept that. Just have to deal with that. Live in it, walk it and act like it's true. Now what's the story is a podcast produced by Crowd Church. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favourite podcast app. The amazing team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, George McCague, Estella Robin, and Tim Johnson. Our theme song is written by Josh Edmundson. And if you would like to read the transcript and show notes from today's show, head over to the website, www.crowd.church, where you can also sign up for our newsletter.