02: A Loving Neighbour's Story (How He Became a Foster And Adopt Parent)

What's the Story

30 Aug

Today’s Guest: Phil Watson

Phil is from Liverpool, England. He has two birth children and one adopted child. Phil is a part-time school teacher and full-time adoption and fostering advocate. He loves to ride his bike everywhere, even if it means he has to carry it on his shoulder for a bit!

Here’s a summary of this week’s story:

Phil grew up in a Christian home, and from a young age, he was taught the importance of loving your neighbour and caring for the orphans. As he got older, Phil began to see how much need there was in the world for people to show love and compassion to those who were struggling.
He felt called to do something to make a difference in the lives of others, and so he and his wife decided to start fostering children. They have since adopted a child of their own, and they continue to provide a loving home for children in need. By trusting in God and obeying Him, Phil has found that God has given him a unique opportunity to live out the commandment to love his neighbour, and he is grateful for the ways that his life has been changed as a result.
Phil says that one of the best things about being a foster and adoptive parent is seeing the joy that comes into the children's lives when they are given a safe and loving home. Phil is just one example of how anyone can make a difference in the lives of others by showing love and compassion.

Links & Resources from today’s story

Home for Good
Foster for Liverpool (or whichever UK city you live in)
Fostering and Adopting with Phil

Also listen to:

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Matt Edmundson
Well hello there, my name is Matt Edmundson and welcome to What's the story, a podcast where we hear stories about faith and courage from everyday people. And today, our conversation is going to be with the incredible Phil Watson, about what it's like to love your neighbour and make a difference in the lives of others by showing love, and compassion. Now, this episode is brought to you by Crowd Church, which is an online church, an online church for those that might not be able to get to church buildings, for those that might not even see the point of going to a church building. This is where online church works really, really well. It is super accessible, and a safe space to explore the Christian faith. And the thing I love about Crowd is that it is online first. So it talks with you and not just at you. That's right. That means you can join in the conversation. It's a livestream every Sunday, you can share your stories, you can ask your questions, you can shape the service. And regardless of where you are on your faith journey, it is definitely worth checking out just head over to www.crowd.church or you can email me directly at matt@crowd.church with any questions that you have. Now, before I get into today's conversation with Phil, I just want to mention a few links that are going to be worth checking out. First link, which we will put in the show notes is Home for Good foster for Liverpool. And this works. This is a great link even if you don't live in Liverpool, doesn't matter whereabouts you live in the UK, because Phil is a huge fostering and adoption fan. And in fact, check out the talk on Crowd church, What does the Bible say about fostering and adopting? Phil and Claire and Adam did a great job with that. So you're going to want to check that out because you're going to find, if you don't know already, you're going to find out Phil is a huge fan and advocate of fostering. Phil is from Liverpool here in the UK. He has two birth children and one adopted child. He's a part time school teacher and a full time adoption and fostering advocate. And the thing about Phil is, he loves to ride his bike literally everywhere. Even if that means he has to carry the bike on his shoulder for a bit. He is always to be found in his luminous jacket cycling. Yes, he is. All of that said, honestly, you're not going to want to miss this. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Phil Watson.

Matt Edmundson
Phil, thank you so much for joining me here on Crowd stories. What's the story with Crowd. So we have Phil Watson, who is one of the psychics on Crowd. We've done quite a bit of hosting together recently it feels, which is great. So here we are again chatting about all kinds of weird and wonderful things. How are we doing?

Phil Watson
Yeah, we're like the Ant and Dec of Crowd church, aren't we? Or the Torvill and Dean. Or maybe we are like, I'm Debbie. Is it Debbie McGee and you can be my, what was his name? It was a magician.

Matt Edmundson
Paul Daniels.

Phil Watson
Yeah, bit like that.

Matt Edmundson
Yeah, I'm going with that more as an option. Sally Burch used to host Crowd a lot quite a bit when she had a bit more capacity and the time and people kept referring to as Ant & Dec and I kept saying to her, which one are you? Because I know which one I want to be? I'm Dec. No, I'm Dec. It was really funny. It's fun to do this conversation with you bud and find out a little bit more about you. So you're here, we're both middle aged men. And, you know, we've not always been middle aged men. So how did it start for you? As you know, as a Christian? Where did it all sort of begin?

Phil Watson
Well, I'm from the most, I'm gonna say straightforward, boring, traditional background of anyone you're ever going to meet. Well I used to I think I was until I realised as I got to know other people that everybody's individual, everyone's unique. Everyone's got interesting stories. So I was brought up in the London Borough of Sutton in the 1970s and 80s. And if you've never heard of Sutton, it doesn't surprise me. It had the very first drive through Burger King in Europe. It's been burned down, but it did have the first drive though, I dunno why. It wasn't me that burnt it down. If you're really old, you might remember a TV series called Terry & June. You might remember the good life. Or you might even remember watching The Bill which is about the police and very often those programmes were filmed in or around Sutton or Cheam. It's a very pleasant suburb of London. Some people say we're from London, some people say they're from Surrey, depending on whether they want to sound a little bit posh or not. My mum was a teacher, my dad was a local solicitor, I've got an older brother, we spent a lot of time mucking around in the back garden and the front garden. When it rained, we spent a lot of time, basically seemed to play football all the time or cricket, indoors, outdoors, went to schools locally, and our mum and dad took us to the local church, which was, as I understood at the time was a Church of England church, its still going strong. And it was a very important social hub for us. Because we just knew the other kids there. We knew this is the 70s and 80s. It wasn't all idyllic. But you knew the people where you lived, you played outside a lot. So you knew everyone. And I went along to the church, for as long as I can remember. I think I was Christened there as a baby. I've seen photos of that. I'm assuming they're photos of me. And so I've always, I think I would have been anyway, I've always been quite interested in what you might call bigger questions of, you know, is there a God? And if there is, is he interested in me? And I came to the conclusion quite quickly, if there is a God, it isn't me, I am not God.

Matt Edmundson
That's actually quite a big revelation for a young age.

Phil Watson
Some people don't seem to know that. And also like to point out that my mum and dad, are very, I'd say altruistic people. So we'd often have people around our house, so I didn't necessarily know who they were. But they were very, they are and they still live in the same house, 47 years later, very, very hospitable. We'd often have people around Sunday dinner evenings, people passing through, relatives because we live between Gatwick and Heathrow, we seem to have an awful lot. We were almost like a stopping, a stop off for people going around the world. But also my dad was involved in a lot of charities, he was a solicitor, did a lot of charity work. My mum did, there's something called victim support, so she'd help people if they'd been mugged or burgled. She also did a lot of prison visiting. So as I became sort of 18, 19, 20, I used to go with her sometimes to visit prison, people in prison who had no visitors. This isn't to say at the time, I was particularly, I wouldn't describe myself necessarily as a Christian. But I was certainly spiritually aware, I was socially quite active. And I've got to say, it's very easy for everybody to find reason why they didn't like their background and their upbringing. And a lot of mine was really pretty good fun.

Matt Edmundson
Yeah. Now, were your parents Christian then?

Phil Watson
Well, this is an interesting thing, because they might watch this one. My parents are wonderfully middle class and British, which means yes, I think yes, they are. But because we didn't actually have that many deep conversations, oddly enough. So I knew, for example, because my mum still does it. She still goes on a Sunday, and in the week to visit people in prison, and she's absolutely a lady that says what she's going to do and does what she says she's going to do, which is like, I'm going to go in and I'm going to help people, she wouldn't necessarily talk about her motivation. But she would meet people who had a need. And, you know, I don't know what it was about people who are incarcerated, because she's never been in prison, you know, like as a prisoner. Neither have, neither has my brother, you know, we're very, very, its like I keep saying normal. But, looking at it I was always impressed that they did. They did a lot of the things that are in the parable in the Bible, which is, I think it's the sheep and the goats, isn't it where, you know, if somebody's hungry, you feed them. If somebody's ill, you look after them. If somebody's lonely, you invite them in. And if somebody's in prison, you visit them. And my mum and dad are like that. They wouldn't necessarily talk about their motivation, but they've always lived that life. And my wider family are many of them are like that as well. And I would say, growing up in the 70s and 80s. In the 80s particularly, there was a very materialistic streak and a lot of wealth slopping around in London, and in the places where I grew up,

Matt Edmundson
Loads of money.

Phil Watson
Yeah, yeah, loads of money. That's exactly it. And in knew all these people, I was very much on the edge of that culture. But I wasn't, I was always shown that that's not the point. That's not the point of being alive. If the point of being alive is being rich, you're going to lose ultimately, because you can't own it. We all know that you can't take the money with you. And even if you are pretty rich, there's always somebody wealthier, unless you're what's his name? Musk.Who is the bloke buying Twitter?

Matt Edmundson
Elon.

Phil Watson
Elon, yeah. Apart from him. There's always somebody richer than you, isn't there? And probably, I wish I had that, you know, I don't know. Does he scroll through eBay or Amazon looking for stuff he hasn't got, trying to go "Oh?"

Matt Edmundson
Once you get to that stage, maybe, maybe you have people who do that for you.

Phil Watson
Yes, his own personal shopper who goes on his own website Amazon buying what he hasn't got. Yeah, maybe, I don't know.

Matt Edmundson
So I have a question. Right? You showed a photo on Facebook of your house a long time ago with a very famous young lady in your house.

Phil Watson
Wonder Woman?

Matt Edmundson
Yes.

Phil Watson
Yes. This isn't typical of my life.

Matt Edmundson
And can we just say this is Linda Carter, Wonder Woman, not

Phil Watson
Not the new one. My dad is one of five. My dad was born abroad in India. My mum was one of four. And she was born in Argentina. There's lots of funny stories. So I've got relatives from all over the world. And for reasons that have only recently become apparent, Christmas night in '74, thereabouts, I was dressed in a cowboy outfit with two little toy guns. And for reasons I had no idea about them at the time Linda Carter, who was playing Wonder Woman came to our house. It didn't seem that unusual. I don't know why. And the reason I found out is she knew, one of my mom's sisters moved to California, and knew people in California. And one of them was Linda Carter's manager or something and said, oh, they were going off. I think that would go into Vietnam, because it was the end of the Vietnam War. And she wanted to pursue a career at the time as a singer and entertainer, I think this is right. I'm not good on detail. And so on her way to Vietnam, she was stopping off in London to try and link up with some musicians. And she came to our house. And so I dunno if she was famous, but obviously to me, as a four year old, I was overwhelmingly indifferent to very attractive women coming around. I think some of the other yeah, think some of the other men in the photos, like my uncles, they were a little bit more excited by the prospect of Linda Carter from around the neighbourhood. Yeah, I've sat on Wonder Woman's knee. So thank you very much. It's one of my claims to fame.

Matt Edmundson
I think it's a great, it's much better than any of the ones I've got Phil. I'm not gonna lie. So yeah, so you're growing up then in, you know, when you said the good life before you said that, I'm thinking, that's how I know that kind of area of London, you know, the good life. In fact, we love that TV show so much. We bought the DVD set, and the kids watched it when they were younger, because it's quite harmless comedy. Isn't it? The Good Life.

Phil Watson
Harmless. Well, it's nonsense, but it's yes. Perfectly pleasant and funny.

Matt Edmundson
Yeah, yeah. And so you're sort of growing up in this environment. So your parents are kind of Christian. Well, they are Christian, but they're, you know, they're not what you'd, it doesn't sound like they're what you would call the modern day over at the evangelical.

Matt Edmundson
Yeah, that's really interesting. So what point then did you, you're kind of 17, 18 years old visiting prisons with your mum. Have you sort of made a decision by this point that actually this is who I am?

Phil Watson
They didn't shout about it. They just got on with it, I would say. And they were not, I think that The Good Life is an interesting reference point, because there's a sort of underlying snobbishness that you get. Is it Margo, the posh one next door who's really worried about what people think? And certainly there were a lot of people like that. You know, what have I got? Have I got as much as you? It's not unusual to have that as a character trait. Certainly my dad had none of that. Peculiarly indifferent, kind of laughably eccentric about, you know, he was very successful in his career, but you wouldn't necessarily know it. He was also, two things you should know about my dad. He was a Queen's Park Rangers season ticket holder. So he was used to disappointment, putting it bluntly. He went every week, came back going I don't know why I done that. And he also, no one will remember there was a political party called the SDP, the Social Democratic Party, there were sort of middle ground. They went into the Lib Dems, eventually. So in an area when almost everybody would have been a conservative voter, my dad was more left wing than most people. Oh, it wasn't left wing. But even that was relatively unusual. He's also a very big questioner. So he'd go what why? Why is that the case? So he'd want to, he's quite cantankerous. Dad, if you're watching this, I'd be surprised because it's online and you don't really do online. He would always want to put an opposing view of whatever he heard on the news, he'd go, but what about the other side? And if you had an opinion, he'd go, what about the other side, which is kind of annoying as a kid, but actually its really helped me and my brother. Question. Don't believe the source. Check it out. And if something seems too good to be true, or if something seems so one-sided, there's another side to that, there must be, which is great.

Phil Watson
Looking back I would probably say no, because I was perplexed, I had quite a lot of teenage angst. Now, I don't want to get all French on us. But I was doing French, German and History A-level and French Existential Nihilism attracted me as well, which sounds really, really stupid phrase. And it's the sort of thing you say when you're a teenager. And what it means is, I was caught between Is there a God? Yes, I think there is. But that's not the same as being a Christian. What does the Christian bit mean? Also, is there any, and existential nihilism is, is there any point in doing anything ever? That's what it's, that's how you could summarise it. And probably reading French nihilistic literature and poetry. I can't believe I did that. But I used to, for an A-level. And I go, Well, hang on a minute. There's another scientist, it also seemed quite cool to question these things and be quite alternative. And I think it's not a bad thing, if you're younger, to have that. To go through that pattern of going, right. I'm going to challenge. I'm going to ask, and some people found me, a dare I say it, quite rude and aggressive. But actually, all I was doing was going, if what you say is true, defend it, prove it. And I had, because of where I was brought up, probably, there was a clear career path that I was meant to have taken. So I probably should have gone to as higher performing University, done something very sensible, like Law, you know, State southern maybe. And actually, none of those things really appealed to me. And then one day when I was in, I guess it's now called year 13. I decided that I wanted to go and do modern languages. So French and German in Liverpool, which at the time, this is 1989. Liverpool was this far flung remote corner full of football hooligans, football and the Beatles. It was synonymous with them, but also synonymous with urban decay and riots. And that actually massively attracted me, even though I'd never been here. So what happened was I left school and existential nihilism is not good for your mental health. I think I was probably drinking a lot more than I should have been, and exploring other recreational activities that are not altogether pleasant, warm, conducive to good physical and mental health I should say you know what? I think you know what I'm saying.

Matt Edmundson
We know what you mean. Yeah.

Phil Watson
You know, and then I had a something called a year out, which was quite common then. So between school and uni, university, I had a year out and I I really enjoyed that year. It was very formative because I started off. I just went into a employment agency, because I thought I'd better get a job. And I went into an agency, and are you 18? Can you carry things? That was the job advert. And I went Hi, I'm 18, yes, I think I can carry things and they went great. You're now an industrial temporary member of staff. And this company would send me anywhere in South London to pick things up and carry them. So I've worked in various factories, picking things up and carrying them, so I carried beds, I carried sofas, sometimes sofa beds, chairs. Occasionally, I was an industrial, I was a catering assistant. So I cut cheese for quite a long time. The most boring ever was when we put sesame seeds onto croissants. I did that 12 hours, it's not as easy as it sounds. So the croissants would come on a conveyor belt, you pick them up, and then you put them in a sponge of water. And then you put them in a big tub of the sesame seeds or the poppy seeds wherever they were. And then another bloke, he would pick them up and take them on and move them down the conveyor belt. So I did this

Matt Edmundson
For 12 hours a day?

Phil Watson
Yeah, yeah. 2 pound 90 an hour. And obviously then you pay your tax. And I remember thinking, this isn't that exciting. One day when I'm older I want to do a different job. Not and you know, I don't mind croissants, I wanna eat croissants and I'm glad somebody's in that croissant making business. But it wasn't for me. And so I did lots of temporary jobs like that which was meeting a completely different range of people from what I was used to because they weren't, lile I said, they weren't as middle class as we were. And I loved being a hospital Porter. And I didn't realise this at the time but I didn't realise how chatty I was. Nobody had ever, they just said you're too

Matt Edmundson
No one ever pointed that out before?

Phil Watson
I know. People just said shut up. Be quiet. Stop it. And but when I was, not you, no be quiet. And when I was a hospital porter, you basically, you get you know whatever it is you're carrying around. So I was the medicines Porter in a hospital and I get this trolley loaded up with with drugs. And I used to think this is hilarious. And I used to push this trolley around a massive hospital site that was full of drugs and just go round the different wards and go. Hi, suppository anyone? And all the nurses would go oh, here he is and then they'd open up your, it was like to be locked up because it was all quiet like strong painkillers, and I just push. So I'd push a trolley around a massive hospital, talking to everybody I met, just chatting away, and then the TV's dotted around in waiting rooms and sometimes just go, I'm ahead of schedule, and I'd sit down, and I'd watch the telly like neighbours at lunchtime, and chat to patients, and go I've got to get off, I've got to get, you know, literally, I've got to get some morphine to ward three. And if it's not there by off one, I'm in trouble. And then if I could have done, if it paid more than 2 pound 90 an hour, I'd have probably been quite happy doing that job forever. Maybe I'll go back to it keeps you quite

Matt Edmundson
It sounds like a great job to be fair.

Phil Watson
Yeah. It suited me. And with the money I was saving, I then went travelling. I don't know, nowadays, people tend to go to very exotic places, I was only really interested in the continent of Europe. And I'm still very Euro focused, you know, as a geographical entity. And I was doing, I'd done German and French at A level. And I was going to do them at university. So I bought a train ticket, it was called interrailing. And you can still do it. And I basically went off interrailing for about four months and hitchhiking. And it sounds not that exotic now, but you remember, this is no internet, there's no phones, and I, my brother was living in France, I went to see him. And then after a few weeks of seeing him and one or two other people he knew, I just went to a city called Nice in the south of France. So I was only 18 and I put my thumb out by a road and to see where I would go. And I went to Venice in the end or to start off with. That was rubbish. I was really disappointed with Venice. And then I had the Interrail tickets and train tickets, so just zigzagged across the continent. Now this is before the Berlin Wall came down. So we were in the Cold War so you couldn't go over there, you could not go to Poland, you know, you couldn't go to Czech Republic, didn't exist. And there was a war going on in Yugoslav or about to be so I didn't go there either. And I again, it's a bit like being a hospital Porter. So I would arrive in the city of Cologne in Germany. I had a little book that said, there is a youth hostel here, I'd find it and you know, knock on the door and say hallo, ich mochte hier bleiben. And then they'd go, we're English or we speak English. And I go, Oh, I thought you'd be German, I was always disappointed. And you'd go in and you bunk down in a room with 10-20 people, and I'd start chatting. And then we'd all go out to the pub, or we go to whatever tourist thing there was. Sometimes I didn't even sleep in a hotel or hostel. I just remember being in the Black Forest and going, this is nice. I'm going to lie down here. And I went to sleep under a piece of plastic in the Black Forest. Again, I'm not sure I do that now. Because it's it's quite dark and spooky.

Matt Edmundson
Yeah a different world now, isn't it? Back then everything just felt safer.

Phil Watson
I guess I was as alone or isolated in 1989 in Europe as you would be anywhere on the planet now because there was no phones. There was no way, no one could find me, if they wanted to it can be hard. And yes, I zigzagged across the continent. Then after about four months, I kind of run out of money. So I thought I better go home. And you know, it's an interesting thing that I've always had that safe base and maybe I'll come on to that later. I've had like, I can just go home, I'll just go home and I went back to Sutton. And I don't think I told my parents and I just walked home from the station and walked in and I remember very clearly my mom was in the kitchen washing and I walked in, she hadn't seen me for four months, I had rung a few times and she said, Oh, you're back early, as if I'd just been to the shop. And there's a wonderful and I like it now, at that time I found it a bit odd. There's a lovely kind of, oh, yeah, great. You want to wander around the continent, go for it, do it. Why not? Which probably is a bit unusual now.

Matt Edmundson
It is, but I was talking to Zoe, my daughter about this. We've just been away for a couple weeks. And we went to the state of North Carolina as part of our trip. And I did my year out in North Carolina, I worked at a children's home over there. And that's where I became a Christian, was at this children's home. So I took Zoë to see the children's home and meet some of the people over there that had a big impact on my life and all that sort of stuff. And I did the same a few years ago with the boys and interestingly, the boys haven't looked at that and gone, I want to do a year out but Zoe's looked at that and gone, I want to do a year out. I don't know what it is I want to do. But I think this year out or this gap here before University after school is actually for me. I don't know about you, Phil. I think it's quite a formative time, do you know what I mean? It has a big impact on people.

Phil Watson
I found a lot out about me. I could have possibly done that anyway. I don't know. But what I saw and is a message for some people, what I saw as character weaknesses as in, you talk too much. You're too chatty, you need to focus on detail. I actually began to realise was a strength, which was yeah, I'm not particularly interested in, I'm not interested in. So with the languages, I was never particularly good at getting all the grammar right. But I was really happy to just do the speaking, which actually is like, yeah, I'm relational. Put me with people, and I'm more than happy. Ask me to fill in a form. Not a chance. And when I came back, you know, it's interesting, isn't it again, because I think we're probably similar in this regard. If I see opportunities, I tend to go, I'll give that go. What's the worst that can happen? You know, again, it's probably the benefits of my family is like, give it a go. Try it, see what happens. And a friend of a friend of a friend's mother or something like that said, oh, there's a job going in Corfu, the Greek Island. Does Phil want to go and work there? So I'd been back in England few weeks. And I thought, Oh, Corfy, Greek Island. What's the job? And I went on for an interview for this company, and they went, can you swim? And I went, Yeah. And they went, can you? What was it? Can you drive? And I went, Yeah. Now that wasn't actually true, because I didn't have a licence. And when they said, Can you swim? Its true, I could swim. I didn't actually have any qualifications that said I could swim except for, do you remember the bronze personal survival where you had to get a rubber brick for some reason that looked like a big load of dung from the bottom of a pool?

Matt Edmundson
Is that the one where you had to put your pyjamas and you had to go fetch it?

Phil Watson
If I ever fell into the sea in my pyjamas, fine. And if I had to get a big brick from the bottom at 3 foot deep, fine. But, you know, crazy really. Anyway, because of the link. It was a Christian holiday company. And they went Oh, so you go to this church in Sutton? Yeah. And they went, great. And so I got this job, and it paid 30 pounds a week, I know. It was all it was free board and lodging, 30 pound a week. And basically all the food you could eat and beer was half price. And I went I'm going for that. And then, it was, I absolutely loved it. I didn't. And I was setting up toppers and mirrors which are types of boats, didn't know about them, got taught. I worked out how to set up wind surface. And I got to drive a speedboat all around, because basically, it was an offshore wind. So all these holiday guests would arrive at this hotel, go Wow, brilliant. And I'd go Hello, welcome to the hotel. This is how the toppers and mirrors work, you know, just picked it up as it went along. And then they'd all get in these boats. And it was an offshore wind so they'd shoot off away from Corfu, towards Albania. Then they couldn't get back. So then I'd get in the speedboat and drive out to get them and it looks really cool with speedboats really easy. Just go out and then just do that. And it looks like you've done a handbrake turn, just ski it up next to them, you go hi, I think you're struggling to get back to the shore aren't you? And then I'd turn in. And because I was 18

Matt Edmundson
Did you have the Miami Vice music playing in the background?

Phil Watson
Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah. And then because I was 18 and full of energy, they then go, we'd sort of do eight or nine hours on this working on the beach. Sometimes I'll be driving a van around as well, which didn't actually have a licence for, but I could drive. It's the wrong modal verb if you want to be pedantic. I could drive, I just wasn't allowed to drive.

Matt Edmundson
Licensed to drive.

Phil Watson
Yeah, I wasn't licensed. Modal verb, to can or to be able to. There you go. Be careful what you ask. Maybe because my dad's a lawyer, and I just knew, ah, legally, what I've said is true. Technically, it's true. Morally wrong. But I used to go out every night with guests and we go out clubbing, dancing, and I loved all that, I loved the dancing. I loved music. But the hotel was Christian. So you'd have a lot of Christian guests. We didn't have to be Christian, I suppose. And they'd have like a Christian sort of Pastor, Chaplain each week, who would do talks or all sorts of things that sometimes I went to them. Sometimes I didn't. But there was a really, there was a really nice atmosphere and mood about the place that I really enjoyed. And I enjoyed working there. I enjoyed going out, enjoyed socialising with everybody there. And then this is my story of how I actually became a Christian and it's really boring. But it's the only story I've got so I'm sticking with it. I didn't have a watch. And so I'd come in, I would go, I'd be at the beach, had to be at the beach from 10 in the morning. So I'd be at the beach at 10, we'd finish at six. I'd have a snooze. I'd eat everything I possibly could in the restaurant. Then I'd go out clubbing at about 10. Then I'd get in about four and then I'd wake up to go to the beach about 10. So it's kind of a slightly insane lifestyle.

Matt Edmundson
You can do it when you're younger.

Phil Watson
Yeah, you can do it. Now I'm not. Anyway. But one morning I woke up and I didn't know what time it was because it didn't have a watch, because I just didn't own very much. And I went down into the foyer of the hotel, and there was no one around and I went, wow, it must be earlier than I think, it can't be, you know, must be seven in the morning. Anyway, so I sort of sat on a chair and I just flipped through, there were magazines by the, in the foyer, like you might get in, because you know, some hotels, they'd be about tourism, or they'd be about cars or whatever, hotels, this one happened to be a Christian magazine. And I was flicking through it. And there was an article and I can't remember all the details. But the article said something along the lines of "Believe in God, great. Most people do. It's not the same as being a Christian. Do good things, great. Loads of people do that. It's not the same as being a Christian. To be a Christian, what you have to know is or believe is that you have sinned, that there are things you've done, or you're doing that God doesn't want you to, but there are also things you're not doing that God wants you to do." And I was not a bad person by most people's standards. But I thought, actually, there are things I do that I shouldn't do. And I realised that this bit in the Bible about Jesus being on the cross, which I've never quite got my head around, and bit on about Jesus, basically, if you sin, there's a punishment. There's a consequence. And I understood that from school. Yeah, you do something wrong, you get caught. There's a consequence. If you don't get caught, there doesn't appear to be a consequence, but you're still wrong. And I sort of twigged, I went, oh hang on a minute. So I sinned, Jesus died for me, so he takes the punishment, so I don't have to. And then it was 7:30 in the morning, August roughly 1989. And I went, right, I'm going to, I believe that, I'm going to do that. And I'm not going to say there was a bright light. I'm not going to say that was the sounds of angels, you could argue that I was sleep deprived. And so I've made the whole thing up. But actually, I just went, Yeah. And I'm a little bit like that as a person going, yeah, I'm going to do that. I'm going to become a Christian. So without a tonne of other theological reasoning, I just decided to do that. And I did, I would argue, that I felt different. I felt lighter, happier. And you say, you could say, oh, hang on a minute. That was purely circumstance that was purely, yeah, say you were tired. You'd had a, you know, it was emotional. I'm going, yeah, maybe, but 33 years later, I still have that same sense. I've had and I would describe that as a religious experience. I can't say to you, I've got a really convincing story that's full of reason. It was to some extent, well, you could argue it's emotional, I would say it's spiritual. And I've had a series of religious experiences since, that I can't explain other than there must be a God. And there is somebody called Jesus and Jesus is God's Son. And there's lots of theology. There's lots of bits in the Bible that I don't understand. And I don't mind that. I don't mind not knowing everything. So when somebody says to me, yeah, hang on a minute, what about evil and suffering? I'm going brilliant. I don't know. I'd love to know. I, you know, think free will is a wonderful gift that we've got a wonderful thing, but I don't understand why there is, you know, I'm gonna get onto a moral evil, natural evil. You know, I don't understand why there's tsunamis and earthquakes. I don't understand why God always does what he does. And why he doesn't do what I want. Even though I ask him. Outrageous, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson
Outrageous God, what are you playing at?

Matt Edmundson
Yeah. People will follow you.

Phil Watson
Yeah, but I don't mind and I don't mind not knowing everything. It's okay. So I would say that day is when I became a Christian. And what was interesting, I guess, from my own story is I came back from Corfu. And I went to university and came up here to Liverpool, which was a long, long way from Sutton in those days. And I arrived in a new city and a new place, new relationships, without any history. So there was, you know, you're a blank canvas. And that really suited me as well, I think, because it turns out, and I know this will be a shock to you. But turns out, I was for the first time in my life, I felt quite popular. I go along to the course, I'll go hello everybody and people go Wow, you're really chatty and friendly. And I didn't know I was. Within two days of arriving, I'd organised, kind of by mistake, a pub crawl down the Smithdown road, which is a very famous road in Liverpool. And I just made these posters with this guy called Mark saying Meet here for the Phil & Mark pub crawl, and all these people came along, and I went, do you know the way to the pub crawl bar here and I haven't got a clue anyway. Well, it must be this way. So we just set off. And we've headed off. This way. And if you say, there's another tip, if you say things with a degree of confidence, it's amazing. People will believe.

Phil Watson
And I really enjoyed that time at university. I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed my course. I really enjoyed learning. I found I liked learning for the sake of it. I like the literature, I like the art that we learned, I like the language. And I went to the launderette and met a girl.

Matt Edmundson
I went to the launderette, but I didn't meet a girl.

Phil Watson
Oh, well. Different launderette, anyway,

Matt Edmundson
Wasn't it that old Levi's TV commercial?

Phil Watson
Yeah, but I didn't take the trousers off, because I wasn't that confident. And I tried a few churches because I knew oh, yeah, church that's what humans do. And again, I didn't find the church that I went to, for whatever reason, I didn't find them that welcoming the first ones I went to. And that could easily put you off. But to me, it's I mean, these are people, churches are full of people. They are by nature, human, and therefore sometimes they're good. Sometimes. they're less good. That's not God's fault, or Jesus' fault. So,

Matt Edmundson
But it's what you actually should expect in church. Church is not a place of perfect people.

Phil Watson
Exactly. And if it were perfect, if I join, kind of ruin it. But eventually, so this girl called Helena, we found a great church in South Liverpool we went to. They weren't used to students at all. And so they thought we were amazingly funny and interesting. And they thought we were really poor, because we were scruffy. But that was just kind of like what you did when you were a student in the 1990s.

Matt Edmundson
It was the fashion.

Phil Watson
Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was, you know, you made a point of being scruffy. And we met again, oh, massively wide range of really interesting people who'd had completely different lives. Some of them were from very impoverished backgrounds. And this is Liverpool in the early 90s. So unemployment was common. They'd been involved in things like the Liverpool riots. They'd been involved in things like the high school stadium violence, they'd been involved in the Hillsborough disaster. And I was, I really enjoyed meeting people from a very different background. And I loved it. I then went away to live in Germany for a year as part of my course. Then I came back, and for various reasons, my girlfriend at the time, now my wife, she said, Oh, I'm trying out this new church. Let's go. And I went, and I was a bit like, yeah, whatever. Let's go. And it's the church we're still in now, it had a different name, then it was called Bethany. And I must admit, yeah, that's it. And I must have met you, Matt. But again, it was like I met a bunch of people. And they were from a different range of backgrounds, lots of students, but also lots of local people, business people. And I remember being invited around for lunch at the pastors' and eating everything, which was great. And then one of them saying, a lovely lady called Jenny went, I'm doing a kid's club. You could do the games, couldn't you? She said it in a way that wasn't really a question.

Matt Edmundson
Jenny has a habit of doing that. Right? Her and Nick to be fair, it's a talent they've possessed for a while.

Phil Watson
Absolutely. But isn't it interesting that actually I was confident, but I needed that little shove. So I ended up being involved in something called the kids club, which was it's kind of like if you're quite old, it was a bit like Tiz was. So it was full of crazy games. But with a Christian message. And the kids that came, putting it bluntly, were pretty rough, pretty scally. They were not the kids that I grew up with, they did not sit around wanting to read books, or study existential nihilism. But I loved it. I absolutely loved it. It was really good fun. And so I was going to university, had a great girlfriend, was doing this kid stuff, going to this church where I learned a lot more about the Bible, I would say, and I learned a lot more about I guess how living a Christian life and the people I was meeting there, obviously, we all make mistakes and that but they were generally going, I'm trying to be a good Christian. And there was no duplicity. There was no or very limited duplicity and hypocrisy, what you sowed was what you got, you know, let's go and do a food bank, it wasn't called Food Bank then. Let's feed the homeless because that's what it says we should do. Let's look after orphans and widows, because that's what the Bible says. And I love that social action side. But I was also learning about a spiritual side to that it's what you believe that matters. Yeah, I mean, I spend a lot of my time playing with this. There's a story when Jesus is crucified, there are two other men who were crucified at the same time, the thieves and one of them, says, Jesus, what you're doing? If you're the Son of God, get off the cross, and makes fun of Jesus, even though they're dying a massively painful death. The other fella on the cross is going, I think I'm using my own language. It's not exactly the Biblical words go. The other crucified thief says, No way, I think you are Jesus, I think you are the Son of God, I think you are who you say you are. And Jesus says, Jesus says to him, you're going to be in heaven when you die, which is basically going to be in the next few hours. And I love that bit of, you know, when I say theology, it's understanding of the Bible, because you go, all that thief did was acknowledge that Jesus was the Son of God. And that, you know, he acknowledged who he was, he didn't get a lot of extra theological training. You know what I mean? He didn't go on a course, he didn't even do anything good. He didn't kind of help the aged, help the lonely. That being said, I think it's very important before you die, to act on your faith, to do things that have an impact and a positive impact on other people. And this church that we're still in, I think is a really good blend of both of those things, which is maybe why you and me, Matt are still there and our kids have grown up in it.

Matt Edmundson
All these years later. Yeah, yeah. 30 years. 30 years ago for me when I joined Frontline church. What Bethany, church with a mission.

Phil Watson
Yeah. What a great name.

Matt Edmundson
Yeah. Bethany, Church with a mission. Its like yes, all churches have missions, don't they? Yes. But we are Bethany, church with a mission. No, it's great. And I totally get what you're saying. And I can hear Jen in my head. Now, when I was sort of 18-19, you know, telling me a few. To be fair, it was more Julie Connelly with me.

Phil Watson
Yeah, similar.

Matt Edmundson
Julie's a little bit more straight talking than Jen. Jen was very kind. And Julie was like, boom, and still is in some respect. But no, yeah. It's fascinating. So here you are a Christian, you met Helena in the laundrette. I thought you met her at a bus stop or something.

Phil Watson
Oh, that's when I picked her up with my friend Dave. So we'd met in the laundrette, I'd seen her around, in those days, there's no phones is there? So you had to stalk people, if that's the right word, by just hanging around where they might hang around, so I knew she might be in this part of this club. This, you know, wherever, so I just hang around, and I saw her with my friend Dave, and she was waiting at a bus stop with another girl called Joe. And I said, Dave, pull over, let's give them a lift home. And that was the evening of our first kiss, with George Benson playing in the background. Never give up. Anyways. And it's really interesting, actually, because there's another example there of what I would call a religious experience. Because she was doing law, she had a really good career path and a really good career plan. I ended up doing a master's because I liked studying. And in those days, you didn't have to pay. Sorry, everybody. So I did a four year degree, then I did a master's in the administration of the European Union. So I was the only person who knew how the European Union worked in the whole of Britain. And I still didn't fully understand it but never mind. And then I got a job, I got a proper job. I was an export sales manager. Selling graphic arts filing. It is not that interesting. All those off talking. And people saying why aren't you getting? You're gonna marry Helena? I was like I dunno about that. And I was in church one day. Helena wasn't there. And for what reasons I cannot explain properly as a cerebral intellectual process, just burst into tears. And there was a fella there called Paul, who, you know, Matt, Paul Ed. And he went what's wrong? And I go, I don't know. I don't know, Paul. And about 10 minutes of crying. I stopped crying. And I was like, well, that feels better. That feels good. And it's funny. Somebody, I was explaining this once to somebody who wasn't a Christian she went, do you think it was a mental breakdown? And I went, I don't know, if it was, it was a good one. If you can have such a thing.

Matt Edmundson
Mental breakup, maybe.

Phil Watson
I felt like a lot of things somehow had been dealt with. And I wonder, and again, I've got a theory. And no, I wouldn't like to put it to the test necessarily, that sometimes as a Christian, you can work through issues in your life, like you might be very angry, you might be very bitter. You might have had a very difficult past. And slowly but surely, God can help you deal with that. And not everything gets dealt with, some things you just carry with you, you know, physical health, mental health issues. Other times, and this has happened to me on two or three occasions. It's almost like I've had keyhole surgery. And there's the only way I can describe it as a comparison. So it's like 10 minutes of crying. And I was like, Oh, I feel better. I don't know why God would do that. But I believe it was a God thing. And the next day I said, Hey, I think we should get married. And Helena went, I've been waiting for you to ask me that. And I went, well, there you go. Boom.

Matt Edmundson
How long have you been married now?
Phil Watson
Oh, only 27 years and just the other day, it felt like I nearly knew what I was doing.

Matt Edmundson
And then you had a word with yourself.

Phil Watson
It's funny is that because I think, because maybe my upbringing, which was like, you know, you need to be relatively sensible and be a bit good-lifey. I had this really good job that paid really well, I wore a suit, went abroad, but I hated it. I really found it tedious. I was fundamentally, I wasn't interested in selling things. Although I think I buy things. So I don't mind people selling things, its part of life. So I've got no problem with it ethically just like this is boring for me, I'm not interested. And then I was in church again, maybe a year or two later. And I, again, I was like going, hmm, I'm not happy, I'm not happy. And it's almost like, I can't, there wasn't a particular verse. There wasn't a particular message I remember other than why am I? I think I was made for something else. I think God made me with a heart for something else. So chatted with Helena. And we couldn't quite afford to do this. But I gave up my job. And I went to volunteer because I wasn't paid to work back at the kids club and to work for the church. And apart from taking 100% pay cut, it was brilliant. Everything about it was great. And maybe I'm not that materialist. I mean, everyone's got to have some money. But I was like, Oh, this is so much more fun. And I don't mind that. You know, I'm not going to hotels and restaurants. I don't care. I'm mucking about in places that you might have heard or wherever you're in England, Toxteth, Wavertree, Kenny, Kensington, not Kensington, London, Kenny Liverpool, very different, very different places. And I loved it. And it was like, this is great. And I think this is, you know, there's a great verse in the Bible. God's got a plan for your life. Now it can be misused that verse, but I'm pretty sure that there is something about God's got all sorts, he knows me well, and he knows what I'm good at. He knows what my skills are, if you like, he knows my heart. He knows my personality. And it probably wasn't to sell filing. And so, but I like working with kids, I trained to be a teacher. So I became a teacher. So I had an income and we had an income. And I still carried on doing this kids stuff. And the balance was pretty good. It worked. It worked well, for those years that we were involved in both. Then to jump forward, we had children. And this sounds odd, but it will make sense in a minute, we had children in the natural way. So we were living in a semi-detached house, great church, great kids. My wife was a solicitor. I was a teacher. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. And then my wife, who was pretty clever said should we foster? And I was like, You know what, dunno whatever? And she said, yeah, look, there's an evening to find out more about fostering. Should we go along? And I was like, what, like on a date? It's not a very good date, but I'll go anywhere with you dear. We went off to the local council's foster event. And the social worker who spoke put us off entirely by speaking in a social worker language I didn't understand. Then a lady who was a foster carer put us off by saying, these teenagers that I look after keep smashing up my house, so I was like I'm not doing this. And then a young lady spoke, who was, who'd been in care. And she said, going into care, going to live with strangers is terrifying. If you could make it less terrifying, could you foster? And I knew that the Bible talks quite a lot about looking after, it calls them the orphans. And essentially, that's kids who haven't got a family. And we're just a bit like this. And this is a great way to be if you can, which is like, well, let's give it a go. What's the worst that can happen? We can always stop. So we went through the process of becoming a foster carer, it takes about, it took us about eight, nine months, it's pretty rigorous. You can't just ring up and say, we'd like a kid, you know.
Matt Edmundson
There are a few questions they want answers to.

Phil Watson
There's a lot of questions, you fill in something that, you fill in a form called a Form F. It is a book, is 100 pages. That should be called Book F. And so we started fostering. So we had from two birth kids, who were five and seven or something like that at the time, we started having additional kids coming into our house. And some came for what, one came for four hours. One came for a few days, then we had one for a year and a half. And you know, you might have seen, know about this, and it's a whole another podcast about getting a kid ready to be adopted. We had another lad who came to live with us. We thought he was Russian. And so when he arrived, I said to him privet because I've looked up on YouTube how to say hello in Russian. And his first words to me were Why are you speaking Russian? I'm not Russian. And I went, Oh, where are you from? And he was from Moldova, which you know is in the news at the moment because of the Ukraine Russian war. And oddly enough, we lost contact with him but because of the internet, Instagram, a little while ago he found me on Instagram and it was just wonderful to be sort of reunited by the world wide web with a lad that we looked after for sometime. It was just lovely. It's been lovely to chat with him. And one little kid who we fostered, got adopted, the adoption broke down, which does happen. Two years later, he came back to live with us when the adoption didn't work, and we fostered him again. And then one sort of afternoon, he's been very, very quiet, which is good and bad with children. And I was like oh, he's been quiet. Should I enjoy the silence? Or should I go find out what he's doing? And I enjoyed the silence a bit too long. And then I went to find out what he was doing. He was in the front lounge in our house. And he'd got a family photo, he'd smashed out the glass and he'd added a picture of himself with his name, and I went oh, look at that, that's so exciting. He was covered in glass, which is a bit of a safety, health and safety thing, but

Phil Watson
You got to be careful about that. I was more interested in what he was trying to say. And he was basically trying to say, can I join your family please? which is a very hard thing to say. And it's not why we went into fostering but we went yeah, okay. So we ended up adopting him. So this kid has had a lot of, he's had a lot of parents. But he did say to me, and I will change the language. When it was Father's Day, he went I've had, you're the best that I've ever had. The others were really... And so we've got three kids 20, 18. And he's nearly 15. So he's planning his birthday as we speak.

Matt Edmundson
safety issue, yes

Matt Edmundson
Yup, Fair enough.

Phil Watson
He's got a very long list on Amazon of what he wants. And if we bought it all, it would come to 17,450 pounds, something like that, you know?

Matt Edmundson
Aim high, Phil. Aim high. I like that.

Phil Watson
What's the name of that fella, Elon Musk, have you got his number?

Matt Edmundson
Yeah, just give him a ring. Elon, I could do with a few quid.

Phil Watson
I was still teaching for a long time. But I found it quite, I began to find a bit stressful, and you know, middle aged man doing okay. But I began to get, I don't think it was depression, but I got very anxious about work. And somebody said to me, who's a wise, again, very wise person at church, who worked in mental health, chatted to her and she said, you've got, I think she referred to it as environmental anxiety. So you found yourself in a situation that you're not, I mean one or two things can happen in your life, and you're fine. But so many things were happening, that I wasn't able to deal with them very well. So I wasn't sleeping, I wasn't eating very well, I was getting very anxious at the weekend, I was trying to get ahead of the week by looking at emails all through Sunday. So I was and I would say looking at this now, if I could give any tip for mental health, it's, you know, the Bible. So Old Testament, New Testament, even the Koran, I mean, you know, I'm not a Muslim, but they talk about having one day being different from the others. And I can't help thinking that having a day different, day of rest, whatever you want to call it, Sabbath, Shabbat, day of rest, one day different from all others, is really good for our mental health. And I wonder if the reason we have such poor mental health in the West is because we've eroded that and we treat all seven days the same, but with a lot of help and friends, kind of got better. But I did think I need to change my environment. So I stopped being a full time teacher, and became a recruiter, or promoter is maybe a better word, of fostering. So I now spend three days a week teaching, love it, teach German, theoretically French, although that is not very much and RE, so a lot of ethical issues. Is there a God? I'm always asking kids that question. It's brilliant, because they always want to know, what's the answer. And I go, that's the whole point. We don't know. It's a matter of faith. If somebody says they know there's a God, they're using the word know incorrectly. That's me being kind of slightly cantankerous again, no, you don't know it, you know facts, and it's not a fact, its a matter of faith. And you, you don't know everything. That's why God is omniscient, which is from the latin all knowing, you're not, you're just a kid, and I'm just a big kid, basically. And it's a pretty good balance at the moment as our kids get older, and my wife's changed her job a few times, still works in law. She's an academic, my wife is an academic, Matt.

Matt Edmundson
You know you've achieved when you become an academic, when you've worked so hard, the university you went to says, do you mind coming back?

Phil Watson
Yes. Could you come back because you're so clever?

Matt Edmundson
Not happened to me yet, Phil, I'm not gonna lie.

Phil Watson
It hasn't happened to me. So I spend quite a lot of my time with kids who are, shall we say marginalised, sometimes traumatised, I do some of the charity work, we're trying to keep kids out of going into care, work with foster carers and adopters trying to help them deal with the kids because kids, you know, even when you adopt it doesn't solve the trauma and the distress that you may have experienced as a child. And it's sometimes very challenging, but I find it really worthwhile. And that is one of, I guess that's one of the values I have, I think I'd have had it if I hadn't become a Christian, I think it would have been reflected in maybe politics or something like that. But actually, it's become, I'm inspired by a sense of justice that I've got. But I'm also inspired by many bits in the Bible that say, What are you doing about the poor person? What are you doing about the widow, the marginalised, the orphan? What are you doing about the refugee? And you know, I do sometimes and I tend to ignore, I do sometimes despair when I see people that would say they're a Christian, who don't appear to have read all of the Bible in the way I have, but it's not my job. Really. I don't, I'd rather not go on about them. I'd rather go I don't care. I'm gonna look after this kid. Whatever that fellow wants to say.

Matt Edmundson
You do those God bless them prayers, don't you, at somebody. And you try and do them in a non self righteous way, which is always the tricky part.

Phil Watson
I do the self. God bless those people. I'm sure they think they're doing what is now then. So for example, this weekend, I'm taking this little kid, he's 10, to his first football match. I mean, you know, it's not all good. He's going to see Everton. Poor kid. But you know.

Matt Edmundson
You're like your dad learning how to deal with disappointment.

Phil Watson
I took him with our adopted son, who's got a few learning. He's brilliant kid, I took him as a 10 year old, and he's not from the same ethnicity as me. And I took him and our son, and I took him into town. He'd never been into town. He's lived in Liverpool a while, he's never been into town. And we just ran around the libraries to museums, we were in and out of shops, and everything was wow, amazing. And I just thought, this is, for me, for my personality. It's not for everyone. This is just such a fun way of spending my time. It's showing the kids, there's a world that's exciting. And just showing them. Yeah, there are some adults because they both had a tough time. There are some adults that aren't good, do bad things, but there are some adults that are safe. And you know, there's nothing wrong with selling filing. But this was a lot more fun.

Matt Edmundson
Yeah. And I think a lot more fulfilling for you.

Phil Watson
Exactly. And it's the way I'm wired. It's the way I'm wired. And you know, very often I've all sorts, I'm sure anybody watching this, I have all sorts of questions that I don't understand about why, why did those two children have to find themselves in families that couldn't look after them? And you know, it's great question, you know, why? Why was I put in a family? If I was put in a family, you know, questions of volition and agency, why was I on a family with a mom and a dad and a brother, and happiness and wealth, and they weren't? And I'm like, I don't know. But I do know with that privilege. And we've talked about this before, that with privilege and with power, comes responsibility. And I like to think that I'm doing what I can, my family can, to help people who aren't as privileged, and who are disempowered or don't have as much agency. I could always think I could do more, but I'm going, it's fun to do it, but it's useful to do it. And I don't know what happens when you die. But I'm guessing, guessing is that the right word? Is that the theological word?

Matt Edmundson
Assuming.

Phil Watson
Assuming. My reading of the Bible is this, if it's true, when I die, God will go to me. Right, Brilliant. You're in heaven, well done. I dunno if it works like this. I really don't. But you know, I hope there's no paperwork in heaven. Hope there's no forms to fill in.

Matt Edmundson
Can you imagine? Let's go and fill out this.

Phil Watson
He's joking. I can't. I can't, I have to just wait till Helena gets there, my wife. I can't do the paperwork. But I'm figuring that there's those commandments about, it's summed up with love your neighbour and your neighbour is everybody, even people that you might not like. And I like to think that that's how we live our lives. I've got a tonne of questions for God, but I'm figuring everybody else has as well. And you know, I don't understand everything that happens on the planet,

Matt Edmundson
I think you'll have plenty of time to get them answered.

Phil Watson
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And on earth I do talk to God often, get quite cross with him and go, Why is this happening? And I feel anxious about that. And, but I like the journey. I like to go to a, I like to listen to a preacher or read the Bible or do a Bible study and go, this has answered a lot of questions. But now I've just got a load of others as well. So go to church and go, that was really interesting. And I love listening to that man or woman talk about their life. But what about this issue? And what about that issue? And I keep coming back because I don't mind not knowing. I don't mind. I mean, you know, I don't want to talk about it now. But you know, there's a big issue in the UK at the moment about trans and cis and gender. And I'm like, Oh, that's interesting. And I can look at the Bible and try and find a lot of information or some guidance on it. But there's a lot about that, that I didn't even understand all the words, maybe because somebody said, you're a Cis male. And I'm like,
Matt Edmundson
I just I don't know.

Phil Watson
And you think when I was younger, I'd laugh at people who didn't understand the modern world. And I'm going, I'm turning into one of those people that just go, what?

Matt Edmundson
A middle-aged guy, because I just don't know what I'm doing.

Phil Watson
I don't know what that is. And I'm trying to find out, I really am. I'm thinking right, because, you know, people are people, aren't they? Everyone's made in the image of God. So people are people. But that doesn't, I don't know. Let's not talk about it now. Because that's a whole another podcast.

Matt Edmundson
That's very much another discussion. But I think it's an interesting point. The thing that I love about the Christian faith. And the thing I love about your story, this whole I don't mind not knowing. There's a word the Bible uses. I've learned, Paul says it. He says, I've learned what it is to be rich. I've learned what it is to be poor. But in all things, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me, in other words, and he talks about being content in this phrase, do you know what I mean? It's like, I've had loads of money. I've had no money at all, but you know what, I'm content. I'm alright. I'm alright. I don't know all the answers. And I'm alright, I'm content. And I think it's probably one of the most underrated aspects for me of the Christian faith is that level of contentment that it sort of comes with, where you go, I don't know all the answers. And I know, I only look at life in this very small, tiny sphere in which I operate. We have just travelled to the States, they see things very differently over there. You know, you talk about Moldova, they're seeing things extremely differently over there. So I understand that in this small sphere in which I operate. I don't know, I don't get everything. I don't get all the big picture all the time. But you know what? I'm content. And I have God to thank for that. Right? And it's a beautiful thing, isn't it? So Phil, listen, I'm aware of time and it's always lovely chatting.

Phil Watson
I talk too much.

Matt Edmundson
Never. I guess in all of this, we talk about life messages, don't we? And it's like, you've mentioned on the livestreams before, you know, you write letters to your kids. And you've done that over the years, you've written letters to them, you give them to them on their 18th birthday, a stack of letters, which they can read, which is great. But I guess if you had one letter left, which you were going to write, and in that you would write your sort of, you know, your final message to the world. This is you know, the one thing you want everybody to remember that you've, I guess you've learned or experienced or come through, what would that be?

Phil Watson
Oh, now this is where I should say something really pithy and deep.

Matt Edmundson
No, no, no.

Phil Watson
I'd possibly say, please consider fostering.

Matt Edmundson
I wouldn't doubt it. There'll be a card in there somewhere.

Phil Watson
I think it's probably, if you're not careful, you sound like you're one of those sayings that people put up in their kitchens, like live life love, but probably it would be more like, there's a very old song I remember somebody saying to me, which was where's a little kid, which was trust and obey. There's no other way. It rhymes, trust and obey. There's no other way to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey. And there's a tonne of theology in there. But actually, there's a lot of this, there's a lot in, it's the trusting, which I've probably learned, and I'm learning, going but what about that God? What about this? Are you sure you got it covered? He's like, I'm God. Yeah. Trusting and obeying, which is quite unusual as humans, because we certainly I go, Well, hang on. I've got, I'm sure I've got this sorted better than you have. And trust and obey. Maybe just trust and obey. Yeah, I'm saying this on a good day, because tomorrow I'll go I don't want to trust you anymore God. It's been that relationship and, seriously for me, I keep coming back to the religious experiences I've had going, well, I know God was present. And they're and there's loads of them. And I've got friends who have got similar experiences. I'm going, I can't deny those happened. Unless I denied that I've been alive. I mean, they just did happen to me. So yeah, trust that obey. Maybe that's it. Simple as that. And all you got to do is find out the bits you have to obey, which is to foster.

Matt Edmundson
Which is to foster.

Phil Watson
Well look after the orphan.

Matt Edmundson
Look after the widow and the orphan. Yeah. That's brilliant. And actually on a more serious note, Phil, I know people will be listening to this from around the world, but there'll be folks listening from the UK. If people do want to find out more about fostering, which we're big fans of here at crowd, how do they do that?

Phil Watson
Well, there's a couple of things you can do. If you're a Christian, I would Google "Home for Good", which is a fantastic charity. It's a national charity. And basically its goal is to find homes for children who need them. So it might be fostering, might be adoption, it might be long term fostering. So home home for good. And you'll find the charity. If you really want to foster, the best thing to do is to go to your local council and Google, you know, say you live in Surrey, Google, Foster, for Surrey, Google foster for Gloucester, foster for Liverpool, you'll find lots of agencies as well, I don't wanna go into all that now. But you'll find something there. Or you can google fosteringandadoptionwithphil.com. And you'll find my blogs, which are basically stories of fostering and adoption.

Matt Edmundson
And check them out.

Phil Watson
Check them out. I need the readers.

Matt Edmundson
Yeah, you need the readers. Check out his blog. Leave comments. He'll respond.

Phil Watson
Yeah, I will.

Matt Edmundson
Yeah, no problem at all. Phil, listen, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. Great to hear your story. And honestly, man, love it. Love what God's doing in your life. And thanks for just being you man, love. I love it. Love it.

Phil Watson
Alright, mate. Thank you very much. Thanks, everybody.

Matt Edmundson
So there you have it. What a great story. A huge thanks again to Phil for joining me today. Now, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast wherever you get podcasts from because we have some great stories about faith and courage from everyday people lined up in the can and ready to go and I don't want you to miss any of them. And whilst you're there, why not make sure you subscribe to the crowd church live stream also. And if you're around Sunday, 6pm here in the UK. And whatever time that is for you in the world, you can always Google what is my time when it's 6pm here in the UK or there's a handy little link on the crowd church website, which will tell you. Come and say hi in the livestream on Facebook and YouTube. Come say hi in the comments, ask your questions. It's going to be great to see you there. And in case no one has told you today, you my friend are awesome, utterly, utterly awesome. Yes, you are. It's a burden we all have to carry because that's the way God made us. The Bible tells us that we are fearfully and wonderfully made, and that we can walk that out for the rest of our lives. That's fantastic. And that's the good news. That is a remarkableness of the God we serve. What's the story is produced by crowd church. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favourite podcast app. The team, the fabulous team that make this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, George McCague, Estella Robin and Tim Johnson. Our theme song is written by Josh Edmundson and as I said, if you would like to read the transcripts or show notes from today's show, head over to our website www.crowd.church where you can also sign up for our newsletter.