29: Embracing the Unknown: The Transformative Power of Surrender

What's the Story
Written By Matt Edmundson
 

Today’s Guest: Matt Edmundson

Matt is the husband to his better half Sharon and dad to three, almost fully grow kids. He runs his own business specializing in e-commerce and marketing, and he's been doing that since before most people even knew what that was. He is also the founder and pastor of Crowd Church - an online church for those who don't see the point of church.

Here’s a summary of this week’s story:

  • Matt and Anna delve into various topics related to faith, God's involvement, and unexpected journeys. Matt shares personal accounts that demonstrate God's intervention in his business ventures and the positive outcomes he has witnessed through prayer. He explains how, in moments of uncertainty, he turned to prayer and experienced remarkable breakthroughs and favour in his entrepreneurial pursuits.

  • The conversation takes an intriguing turn as Matt discusses the establishment of the online church, Crowd Church, during the challenging times of the pandemic. He describes how his background in technology and business unexpectedly converged with his newfound role as a pastor. Matt explains that while he initially resisted this unexpected path, he eventually recognized the connections between his skills and passion for reaching people with the message of Christ in a digital space. The discussion highlights the importance of being open to unexpected opportunities and the potential for God to work through unconventional means.

  • Throughout the conversation, Matt emphasizes his life motto, which encapsulates the core principles he lives by. He stresses the significance of having faith in a faithful God, coupled with a willingness to act and embrace the unexpected. Matt encourages listeners to step outside their comfort zones, think creatively, and value progress over the fear of failure. His inspiring message challenges individuals to trust in God's leading and step into new ventures, knowing that He is always present and ready to guide them.

  • In exploring Matt's journey, the conversation sheds light on the broader theme of faith and how it intersects with various aspects of life. Matt's experiences serve as a testament to the power of faith and prayer in navigating both personal and professional endeavours. The discussion showcases the transformative impact of embracing unexpected paths and trusting in God's providence.

Links & Resources from today’s story

Also listen to:

At Crowd Church, we are committed to creating a space for you to explore the Christian faith, regardless of where you are on your faith journey.

What happens at Crowd Church?

Every week we livestream our online church service, we add extra content like this What’s The Story Podcast, we have weekly online community groups that meet up and all of that good stuff. You can find our more about everything that goes on at Crowd by browsing through this site and you can reach out to us via our contact page.

Come and Join In!

Are you interested in joining in with what is happening here at Crowd? We would love to meet you!

Any questions? Please connect with us via our Contact Page, or via WhatsApp: +44 7984 530 429

  • Sadaf: Hey there, and welcome to What's the Story? We're an inquisitive bunch of hosts from the What's the Story Team on a mission to uncover stories about faith and courage from everyday people. In doing that, we get the privilege of chatting with amazing guests and have the opportunity to delve into their faith journey, the hurdles they've overcome, and the life lessons they have learned along the way.

    If you enjoy our podcast, don't forget to subscribe and sign up for our weekly newsletter at our website. whatsthestorypodcast.com. It's your direct line to the latest episodes and detailed show notes delivered straight into your inbox. And the best part, it's totally free. What's the story is brought to you by Crowd Church, who fully understand that stepping into a traditional church might not be everyone's cup of Joe Crowd.

    Church provides a digital sanctuary, a safe space to explore the Christian faith where you can engage in meaningful conversations rather than just simply spectating. So whether you're new to the Christian faith or in search of a new church family, visit crowd.church. And if you have any questions at all, just drop them an email.

    hello@crowd.church. They would love to connect with you. And now let's meet your host and our special guest for today.

    Anna: Hello and welcome to What's the Story? My name is Anna Kettle, and this is a podcast full of stories about faith and courage from everyday people. Hi. Today I'm joined by non, other than the legendary Matt Edmundson, who some of you may already be familiar with, he's already chuckling in the background there.

    Um, if your regular listeners or viewers here, there, you will know who Matt is, but just in case you are not, Matt is a husband to his better half Sharon and dad to three, almost fully grow kids. Um, he runs his own business specializing in e-commerce and marketing. And he's been doing that since before most people even knew what that was.

    And he is also the founder and pastor of Crowd Church, which is an online church for those who don't see the point of church. And we'll definitely come back to that one later. But firstly, Matt, thank you for joining us tonight. Um, how are you doing?

    Matt: Yeah. Good, good. It's great to be here. It's great to be on the other side. I'm not gonna lie.

    Anna: Feel more relaxed or less relaxed.

    Matt: Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm definitely relaxed and I'm super, super intrigued. Uh, and it's been a while since someone's called me legendary. So, you know, I'm, I, I, I, I'm very grateful for the intro.

    Anna: It might, it might all go downhill from here yet, mark, so no nonsense. He's in safe hands.

    Matt: absolutely. Absolutely. No doubt, no doubt on my mind at all.

    Anna: So Matt, I wanna dive straight in actually to the kind of heart of your story. Cause we're all about stories of faith there, aren't we? On what's the story? And um, so if you don't mind, I want to dive straight into the kind of crooks

    Matt: No, let's do it.

    Anna: really. Um, now you don't become a Christian until you were 18, which is kind of unusual, isn't it?

    Because. A lot of people, like myself included, grew up in uh, church backgrounds and I've just always been Christians. But you didn't come to to faith until a little bit later in life. So can you tell us a bit about why and how that happened?

    Matt: Yeah, I, it's one of those things, isn't it? It's um, you are right when I. When I've sat in your seat and I've, uh, talked to people on the podcast, there is a, there is a, a high portion of people who are Christians because they became Christians when they were kids. Um, but yeah, not until I was 18. I, I took some time out after, uh, uh, six form.

    Um, here in the uk. So I was 18. Um, I took some time out, uh, finished my A Levels and did all right. Had a place at university and thought I can take a gap year. That's what they talked about at our sixth form. Go and take a gap year. That was really encouraged. And I was supposed to go to China. Um, I really wanted to go to China and teach English as a foreign language.

    Um, And I really wanted to go to China cause I was quite into martial arts at the time and I thought, wow, I can go to the home of kung fu. Um, and um, and it all sort of fell through towards the end. And what happened was I, the, the organization that I'd arranged my gap year with, Called me and said, listen, China's just, it's a non-starter mate.

    It's not gonna happen. Uh, but we do have a vacancy at this place called Nazareth Children's Home, which is in a, um, in North Carolina, in the USA in a small town called Faith, uh, actually it's called Rockwall, Rockwall, North Carolina. And, um, and they said, would you like to go there instead? I was 18, I just wanted to leave England.

    I was like, sure, I like America. I've been once before. Why not? Um, and so I did a bit of fundraising, raised some money and jumped on a plane. Flew to America, was met by a beautiful lady who is now my American mum. Uh, a beautiful lady called Gwen. She picked me up from the airport in a car that had a. Um, what we would call a bonnet, what they would in the states term as a hood, which was as long as a house.

    It was unbelievable. And, and Gwen's beautiful, but she's the tiniest little lady, you know? And I dunno if you've ever seen that movie driving Miss Daisy, where she kind of

    Anna: I, uh,

    Matt: steering wheel as she drives. Well, that's Gwen. And, um, it was beautiful. So anyway, I, I sort of, I, I volunteered time at the children's home, which was eye, I mean, eye-opening beyond, uh, my wildest expectations because when you're 18, world kind of revolves around you, doesn't it?

    It's like you're the center of that world. Um, and here I am thrust into this sort of place at Nazareth Children's Home and all the kids there were amazing and I loved all of them, but they all had a story which was very different to mine and heartbreaking in many ways. And so, um, every Sunday I'd take the kids to church cuz it was a big part of their tradition.

    And so I ended up gonna church every week and listening to the gospel. Uh, and eventually, yeah. I've sort of found faith when I was about 18 years old. I, I, I remember sort of being half in for a little while. God, I'll, I'll, I'll be a Cris-bo, but I'm not gonna do X, Y, and Z. Um, normally came to, if I'm honest with you, and it normally came down to will, I will do anything you say apart from, I don't like the Bible theology where relationships are concerned.

    Let's just put it that way. This is

    Anna: type way of putting

    Matt: and I was, I was 18. Yeah, I was 18. I was like, I don't, I don't like this. I did, no. And so I, I remember, um, I came back to England for a couple of weeks. Um, this was Christmas time, 1990. When would this have been? 91, maybe Christmas 91. I mean, it's going back a few years.

    Jeez. Um, and I remember coming back and I remember on the trip back home, the sort of two weeks I was here. I remember. Just God got all over me and I, I can't explain it other than, you know, God got ahold of me and, and I said, all right, God, I'm, I'm all in. Um, and so I flew back to North Carolina a few weeks later and told, uh, some friends of mine who had been praying very, very hard for this crazy English fella.

    Uh, and um, yeah, that was the start of the journey. That was when I was 18.

    Anna: It kind of sounds like God was on your case for a while though, like almost that sense of him really pursuing you even perhaps before you were fully aware of it. And, um, do you, do you feel like y you can, looking back now, you see God's hand on your life in that way, sort of guiding you from a young age or?

    Matt: Yeah, I do because I, I, I, I never really. As I was growing up, I never really doubted the existence of God. I, I, I'd gone to Sunday school as a kid and I'd sort of remembered bits and bobs, not lots. Um, we had, you know, the old fashioned school assemblies when I was a kid. They still sort of did those. Um, and I remembered bits and bobs from that.

    Um, I remember making fun of Christians when I was at school cause I didn't really understand them. Um, and then, When I was at sixth form doing my A Levels, um, my dad and my then stepmother had a child, had a, a beautiful young girl called Amy, who is my half sister. Um, but she's 18 years younger than me, right.

    Or 17 years younger than me. And so, uh, dad and Tracy asked me if I'd be Amy's godfather. Um, and I, I said Sure. Cuz it sounded amazing. It sounded very flattering and I, I didn't really know what it meant. And then I. Um, I went to, I realized what it, I, I sort of investigated a little bit and then I went and spoke to the chaplain that our school had, um, because, you know, our school had a chaplain cause why would you not try to have a chaplain at school?

    And so I went and spoke to him. He was a lovely man actually, and he was great. And I ended up speaking to him about a lot of stuff. Um, I had a lot of questions about faith and what it meant, and I ended up doing confirmation classes, um, which is sort of like, um, something you do, I suppose, when you're a little bit older and you maybe baptized as a kid.

    And I remember doing these confirmation classes, not really fully understanding the gospel, but it, it started something in me. So to be fair, when I went to North Carolina, my, um, I, I think I'd already been on a journey and definitely got a done something with me on that. Yeah.

    Anna: and obviously that's something that's continued cuz you're still here now and still getting strong. However many years later, let us not count. Um, but you are still walking strong in your faith. Um, and so do you have examples of like other ways that kind of God's continued to pursue since then? And like there any spring to mind or?

    Matt: Yeah. I mean, how long have we got In a lot of ways, because I. The faithfulness of God is something that I think, um, is very, is very apparent to me. So I've been a Christian now for however many years, 35, some years, I don't even know,

    Anna: That's not to count that.

    Matt: count. I, I have to take my shoes and socks off it.

    This would not be pleasant. Um, and so, so I've been a Christian A. Long time and I think when you are. When you have been a Christian for a long time like that, you, my experience is you either become kind of, um, a consumer of Christianity, if I can put it this way. You kind of get used to everything. You turn up to church, you have some semblance of a relationship with God, but in your twenties it was dynamic and in your thirties it kind of dies off a little bit cuz you have kids.

    So then in your forties, um, it's just, it is what it is and you just sort of feel wise and you feel like you're okay with God. Um, Or you can have that kind of relationship with him where he's constantly, um, sort of prodding you if you like, or trying to, trying to take you to the next level. And I think when you, when you've walked with God and you've seen the faithfulness of God in your own unique ways, you know, and, and you've seen God pull through, you're just full of story after story after story.

    So even just simple things like, um, Sharon and I, we pray together in the mornings. Um, and it's not, you know, it's not a long, we just sat in our garden in the swings and we just chat for 10, 15 minutes and pray together. But even just in the little prayers like, God, can you help me at work? I have, um, this coming up and I, I really need your help cause I've not got time to do this and I need your anointing and I need, I need, I need supernatural insight to understand this for this client or whatever. And it's surprising how many times even those little prayers are answered, you know? And um, and that's what I love, you know, so we've seen God work in the big things, in the miraculous things. You know, there was one time when, um, it's a story I've told quite, I don't even know if I've told this at Crowd, actually.

    I've told it a few times. I just dunno if I've ever told it to Crowd. Uh, but. I remember I was working for a guy called Simon Simon O'Shaughnessy. He's one of the, my favorite is people on the planet. He's just awesome, Simon and I knew him from church and I ended up working for him. He offered me a job and um, I. I, I, I'd left uni, got my degree, ended up working for church for a year, and then this was kind of, I didn't really know what I was gonna do, and Simon said, why don't you come work for me?

    And I thought, actually, you know what? I wanna run my own business at some point. So go. And working for Simon seemed like a great thing to do, just to go and get mentored by a Christian entrepreneur. And, um, so I ended up working for Simon for however many years. And, uh, Sharon and I got married. Sharon was pregnant with our firstborn.

    Uh, Josh and Simon came in one day and said that he just felt he was gonna, he needed to sell the business and he, he felt it was right to sell the business and they were gonna move out to New Zealand and sort of start life again over there. It was really interesting when he told me that, because part of me was like, well, Christmas, what's gonna happen?

    Um, but also, you know, just very exciting, like, God, you're gonna have to do something. And I remember just praying about it like, God, what, what do I need to do here? Um, because I've, I've got a pregnant wife, right? So I need to, and, and, and my wife earned more money than I did and she was working part-time.

    And, um, I, I was like, we're losing that income cuz Sharon wanted to be a stay-at-home mom and didn't want to go back to work. And so we thought that was the right thing to do before God, and now Simon is selling the business. And so we were like, okay. And so, I just, I remember praying one day and I felt God say to me really clearly that he was gonna give me the business that

    Anna: Wow, that's quite specific, isn't it?

    Matt: Yeah. And it freaked me out a little bit. I'm not gonna lie. Um, and I, I remember telling this to Sharon, my wife, and I remember saying Sharon that, um, you know, what, what God had said. And, uh, she said to me, you know what, I, I think God's told me the same thing. So we both independently felt God say to us that that's what God was gonna do.

    And I was like, well, isn't that interesting? So we kept it to ourselves. We didn't tell anybody. And the reason we didn't tell anybody was because I didn't wanna manipulate anything. You know, if I just walk into Simon's office and go, Simon, God's told me that you are gonna give me this business, hand it

    Anna: Well, that would, that would be sort of an awkward conversation if he said, well, he hasn't told me that, wouldn't it? I,

    Matt: Exactly right. Exactly. It's that whole level of manipulation, which is just not helpful. And so, um, we just prayed about it and Simon, Simon, God bless him, he sold it to somebody else. Now let me bring in a sort of very long story short, I tried to buy the business of Simon. I believe that God was in this so much.

    I went to the bank, and the bank were willing to loan me unsecured. An awful lot of money, uh, which I certainly wouldn't given in my, my mid twenties. So, but they were willing to loan me an awful lot of money to buy this business. It wasn't enough. And Simon sold it to somebody else. The person that he sold the business to for whatever reason, he and I did not get on.

    Um, and I can tell you a whole bunch of stories. This basically culminated with a lot of going backwards and forwards about some very. Unpleasant things. And I remember one day, clearly God saying to me, Matt, you need, you can now leave the business, um, and just shake the dust off your feet. You know that sort of scripture where if they don't receive, you just leave and just shake the dust from off your feet. And I remember leaving the, the company which had moved down from Liverpool to Derby, and I just sort of shook the dust off my hands as I left. And, um, And just prayed that, you know, God would, would do something. So on one hand I felt God say that he was gonna give me this business, but one day I ended up resigning from that company almost in floods of tears because I, I love that business and I love what we do, and I'd help build this right.

    And so it just wasn't it. What God was saying and, and the reality of life were two very different things. And so, um, but I just, I just kept believing it. And I'm not gonna lie, I just knew God was in this somehow and I, I wasn't quite sure how or what. So I set up a business. We started doing accounting. We started doing, uh, web, website design, and a few of the bits in Bob's that you did back then, which is how I got into e-commerce.

    And we started doing online businesses and stuff. And then after a few years, five years, uh, in fact, um, Our business, the business that Simon had, basically a big part of it was we, we purchased saunas and steam rooms from a company in Germany. Okay. And we, we had the rights to bring them into the UK and we sold them in the uk.

    So for years I was into health bar, um, design, which was great. My job was basically let's just go fly around from spa to spa and take clients with us. It was an awesome job. I'm not gonna lie. Um, And so five years later, that German company contacted me and said, listen, uh, we're not gonna renew the contract with the guy that purchased the business.

    Um, so. But we always enjoyed working with you, Matt, and if you're interested, we'd love to start submitting it with you in the UK. And so here I am five years later, literally handed a business that five years earlier I would've paid a shed load of money for, um, I. It didn't quite work out. How I expected it to, the journey that we went on was not the journey that I expected to be on, but God was still faithful and God was still true.

    Just took a bit of time. And so, yeah, that company, uh, was pretty much handed to me on a plate, I'm not gonna lie. Um, and we spent the next few years building that business and it was phenomenal and fantastic. And I, I rejoiced every day when I went to work just like God has given me this business, you know, and some of the stories that then came as a result of that.

    Um, and some of the lives that, uh, I've managed to sort of connect with, just unbelievable, honestly, unbelievable,

    Anna: That's amazing. And I think it's, it's so, um, inspiring to hear that like, even though God gave you that promise, the timing of it wasn't necessarily what you'd expect. And actually there was a real seasonal waiting and challenge in the middle there that you sort of had to hold on and trust what God had said, even though.

    It didn't seem like it was gonna materialize, I guess, for a long time. I mean, that's challenging, isn't it? Was it quite a challenging time in the middle? Like did you find it hard or did you, did you ever waiver on that or was it easy to kind of,

    Matt: it's a really interesting question. Um, it was hard because we had the business that we did have, we had to build from scratch. Now, Um, Sharon had just given birth to our Josh, um, and things had not gone well at the company. I ended up leaving, um, and it, it went from bad to worse if I, if I'm honest with you.

    They then threatened me with legal action, uh, for something that, if I'm honest with you, I didn't do. I know people say that all the time, but this is genuinely the case. Um, and so we had to deal with that. Um, and it, and it just all got a little bit silly, really. And I was very grateful because one of the clients that I connected with while I was in that business, um, just happened to be a billionaire.

    And when he heard that, uh, I was getting involved with the, whenever the new owner was sort of messing things around, um, and sending me legal letters, he mentioned one in one of the letters that client and, um, So I called him up on a Saturday morning one day. I'll never forget it, it was such a funny story.

    Um, I'd packed the car ready to go on holiday, so me, Sharon and Josh were ready to go down to Cornwall for the week. And bear in mind, Josh is like a few months old. Is is, is maybe six, seven months old at the time. And, um, I get this letter from the new owners solicitors threatening me with all kinds of info legal action if I don't do something in the next few days.

    And they mentioned this client's name in the letter. So I called that client and I said it was a Saturday morning. And I said, Hey, how you doing? He says, oh, I'm doing great, Matty. You always called me Matty. And um, he was, he said, I'm stood in the middle of the Menai River fishing, which was one of his favorite things to do.

    And, um, he said, what's up? And I said, listen, uh, I'm really sorry about this, but I've had this letter and it's mentioned your name in it. And I was just about to go down to Cornwall, but I'm unpacking the car now cause I, I felt like I needed to sort this. Legal mess out because, you know, when you are young, there's two things that scare you.

    Letters from the inland revenue and letters from a lawyer, right? You just don't like them. And, um, I never forget it, he said to me, uh, and I, I can't repeat what he said because it's not fit for Christian radio, but basically he told me it was all nonsense. Uh, at first to summarize it in a polite way when I read the letter to him.

    And he said to me, Matty, I want you to go on holiday. I want you to have a good time when you get back. I want you to come and see me and we will resolve this problem for you. And uh, so it was always nice to have a, you know, it's, it's always nice to have a billionaire in the, in your corner, but the bottom line was as good as that was, I also knew God was in my corner, which is always better than the billionaire, right?

    And so, I mean, a

    Anna: God's even better. Yeah.

    Matt: good and God's even better. And so, yeah. So he, um, I remember going and see him when I got back and him and his sort of head. Uh, head of council, um, got involved and they wrote me a letter, which was just fantastic, which I sent in and I never had any more issues after that.

    So it did get messy. It did get tricky. Um, there was lots of things going on, lots of those kind of stories, but God's provision was in every step of the way. And, um, you know, we didn't lack for anything, which was amazing really. And I, and this is what I mean. I can look back and I can tell you lots of stories about God's faithfulness in that time.

    Um, so I don't, I don't think I ever wavered. Um, but neither did I go and shout it from the rooftops. You know, God's gonna gimme this business. God's gonna gimme. I never did. We just Sharon. I just kept it on the load, on the quiet. We told a few friends, and every now and again, we'd pray together over it.

    And that was about it really.

    Anna: Yeah, that's, that's just an amazing story, isn't it? And yeah, I love the fact that you kind of didn't waiver, but also it wasn't, didn't all come easy either. And that's so often how life is. I think so, yeah. That's, that's just amazing. I, I think, you know, you can read through his scripture, can't you?

    And how God deals with people time after time in the Bible, it's like,

    Matt: Mm-hmm.

    Anna: He, he's faithful, but it doesn't mean the journey is easy on the way and there's always challenge on the route. So, so that's so interesting. Um,

    Matt: it is. Yeah. One of my favorite scriptures actually, um, talks about how in Hebrews it talks about how it was through faith and patience. They inherited the promises. I. And too often in modern day culture, I say modern day culture, you know, it's been like this since I was a kid. You know, the, you could, you can go and get whatever you want, whenever you want it, pretty much these days. Um, And that's conditioned as I think in a, in a lot of ways when it, where, where faith is concerned. It's like, well, if I name it and claim it in the name of Jesus, I should have it Now. I, why, what, what, what are you talking about? Why have I not, why have I not got my healing now? Why have I not got the financial provision now?

    What would I want it now? Because everything's now, and faith is now, now faith is right. And so we kind of talk ourself into those things and, and it's, it's not all bad, don't get me wrong, but it's when you, is this powerful mixture of faith and patience. Um, the ability to stay constant. Constancy is a good word for patients.

    The ability to, to have faith and unwavering faith for an extended period of time in the face of stormor difficulty is how you inherit the promises. Do you see what I mean? And patience is, as you know, Anna, having kids. Patience is a choice. Patience is something you have to have when things aren't going well.

    Anna: Yep.

    Matt: And you want to scream and you want to shout and you want to get angry. Um, but patience seems to have its way. And, uh, so I, I, I totally agree. You know, it's, for me, the key was

    Anna: Yeah, I love that. Faith and patience. Yeah. Love that. That's great. And, um, you kind of, um, I mean you've told us quite a bit about sort of examples of where God's kind of moved in your life in different seasons, sort of in the past, kind of your journey, interfaith and some of those hard challenges. But I wonder as well, if you've got examples of God kind of orchestrating situations or moving in your life perhaps a bit more recently too.

    Uh, if any, spring to mind.

    Matt: Oh, geez. Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, if you, uh, I, I often see God's hand in business. Um, I feel I, you know, I've been in business for, again, a long time. Um, 21 years, 22 years now, I suppose it would be. And it's in the day to day, isn't it that you, that you can see God move, you can see God do things and so yeah, a lot of my stories tend to be business stories.

    I'm not really, um, but it is just, it fascinates me that whenever things have got difficult and they are often doing business, cuz you, life is seasons, isn't it? And it goes up and it goes down. There's a lady who works with us, beautiful lady. Um, I won't name her, but she's a beautiful lady and, um, love the bones of her, but she's not a Christian. And whenever, because she is, um, a senior in the company. She's, uh, she looks after all the finances. Um, whenever things aren't going right, whenever things aren't going well, she just comes to me and says, Matt, you need to pray.

    Anna: Um,

    Matt: I'm like, okay. Oh, that's all I need to do then fine. I'll go away and I'll pray.

    What am I praying for, Michelle? And so she'll often tell me, oh, we need this, this, and this. And so we'll go and pray. And, um, she and I have seen God do things. Along the way, you know, in, in business, which is wonderful. And so, yeah, just a recently, um, one of the, we had a business and, um, I, we had that business for about 12 years.

    11, 12 years. And I just thought, I remember waking up one day and just felt, God prompt me, um, that actually now is the time to sort of sell that business. And I was like, that's, this is interesting, isn't it? You know? And I remember writing it down in my journal, and then within a couple of weeks, two people had approached me to buy the business, um, which was really fascinating.

    Uh, occasionally people would've approached me in the past, but nothing ever really came of it. But then all of a sudden, two came at once and, um, yeah, we ended up selling it to one of those guys and it, it was relatively painless, uh, as a transaction. And so it all seemed to work quite well, you know, and so, Um, just in little things like that, you just, I say little things.

    Selling your company is not a little, it's a big deal. Um, we managed to, one of the things that I wanted to make sure was, um, in selling it, I was like, God, I, I don't want anyone to lose their job because I've sold my business. That just didn't sit well with, with myself and Sharon, and so we managed to. Um, keep all the staff.

    A few, a few people did move on because the nature of their job was gonna change, but they, they went on to bigger and better things. They, no one lost their job. Um, but everybody that wanted to stay stayed, and we, you know, they're still working in our business. You know, God still carried us on and gaves new things and gaves new opportunities and new doors to go through.

    Um, and so, yeah, they're all still there, uh, which I, I'm

    Anna: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I love the fact that you've got so many examples of how God's kind of worked in, in your businesses and in your sort of working professional life. It's, it's inspiring. Um, I think so often we forget that God's like in, in the workplace as much as other parts of our lives, don't we?

    And so that's really inspiring. But you did also, um, you did also, uh, start a online church during Covid. Did you not? Could you, can you tell us a bit more about that? Like, how did that come to be and how did, how did it all kick off?

    Matt: it is very unplanned. And, and I, I mean that with all, you know, often things that I do, just, I sort of stumble in them sometimes. And, um, that's actually to quite, I, we Sharon and I had been feeling for a while and certainly. I had been feeling for a while that God was calling us to get involved with planting a church. Now you have to understand my mindset, right? For 20 years I have been running my own business. Sure, I'd been involved in church leadership, been on the trustee board. Um, I head up, I used to head up the 10 30 service at our church, and there was all kinds of things that I've done over the years. You know, uh, ran small groups, et cetera, et cetera.

    And I, I loved it. And I, I'm a big believer in local church and I love church and sure. It's not perfect. Sure. There were times I wanted to leave. Sure. There were times I was annoyed with somebody. Um, but it's family, you know, and you get over those things, don't you? And, um, whilst it's not perfect, I do think it's an unbelievably good thing.

    And, um, But I, I was quite happy being the businessman and I was quite happy being a trustee and I was quite happy throwing in my advice when it was asked for. And, um, I was, I, I loved doing the youth stuff that we did when our kids were growing up and getting involved in the various youth stuff, which was just great fun, such an honor and a privilege.

    But I was happy doing that. Um, but I also am very aware that. Um, I remember one time I was really annoyed with God about something and probably it was to do with church and somebody at church. And I remember saying to God, I'm not, I'm just not happy. And I remember just hearing the voice of God say to me, well, what are you not happy about?

    And I was like, well, I'm not happy about this, this, and this. And I just heard the, the Holy Spirit to say to me, that's awesome, Matt. But let me ask you a question. Since when has church ever been about you and what you get out of it? I thought church was about what you're supposed to give to it. Just throwing that out there.

    And I just remember at that point my whole view changed and I switched from being a consumer to being a contributor. And so I've always looked at where I can serve at church and I. The youth group had finished and I was just praying, God, what's next? What's next? And I just felt God say to me, I want you to plant a church.

    And I'm like, there is no way I am plant. I don't want to be a pastor. Never wanted to be a pastor. I had no desire to be a pastor. Being a pastor and and being a businessman did not compute in my head at all. I still think maintain that being a church pastor is probably the single hardest job in the world to do.

    And there are reasons why I think this. Um, Especially in the modern world. And I think it's getting harder and harder because as a pastor your, your preaching is compared to, you know, a YouTube video that's got a hundred thousand views. Your, and you know, the whole comms team is behind preparing a sermon in beautiful

    Anna: be the length of a TED

    Matt: I'm in a little country church.

    Yeah, it is. It's all that sort of stuff, isn't it? And it, and comparison's quite massive. Well, and a lot of people complain to church pastors and I, I don't do well when people complain. I have a very short. Short term Grace, uh, fuse if you like. And so I remember God saying to me, I want plant. And it took, after a few years, I went to John Harding, who's the senior pastor Frontline.

    So I just feel God said this to me. What'd you think? And he was like, well, funny enough, I think as a church we're gonna start planting out churches as part of our church growth strategy. I thought that's interesting timing. So we started the church in the city center in Liverpool. We called it Frontline City, uh, Sharon and I started it in Gladstone's Cafe.

    So, And it was great. I mean, we kicked it off. We had 30, 40 people coming, um, from various different walks of life. We had people from Taiwan. I mean, it was just amazing, you know, from all over the globe because it was in the city center. Just started coming to our little church and we did it in a cafe. So we cooked food at the end and we always ate together and we did worship, and we did a talk and we did discussion groups and.

    Um, my kids got involved and so on and so forth, and I was loving that actually. It was, it was a lot of work, seven or eight hours of work every Sunday. Um, and then Covid hit, so we were like, well, let's just take it online like everybody else. Cause I'm quite happy at a live

    stream. Right. Given the nature of my work.

    Digital was fine. And, um, and then after a while we, I just remember talking to Sharon and the team about it and just saying, I just wonder whether we just need to stay online because I. This just feels right and this, it's an interesting fit and I, I, I think God's trying to do something here. And so yeah, that's kind of how Crowd Church was born.

    It wasn't, it was, it came out of Covid. Um, and it, it came out of us going online and trying to church online and then going, well, this is interesting. I wonder what we could do in this space. And so we changed the name from Frontline City because Frontline City does not make any kind of sense for a

    Anna: Yeah, cuz it's not in one place.

    Matt: It's like, yeah. It's like, I, I don't quite understand what this is. I mean, we could have kept it. Um, I suppose it, but I thought actually it was good to change it. So we eventually, we came up with Crowd based on the scriptures. I think God gave us, And, um, yeah, that's, that's how it was born. And, and we're still here every Sunday, as you know,

    you are on most of

    Anna: I am a fully pledged, uh, host every now and then now, so yeah, still going strong. It's, um, it's an awesome story though because it's, again, it's almost like. That kind of sense of God leading you and think bringing different strands together that perhaps you wouldn't have

    Matt: mm.

    Anna: You know, it's like, it kind of makes sense, like you've got this e-commerce and marketing and broad crafting and live streaming sort of background and yet like you wouldn't have necessarily put that into the church context if it hadn't been from, for the Covid situation and everything else that kind of.

    Forced you online initially to explore that, and then, yeah, I just, I love the fact that sometimes God's plan is sort of like unexpected, but kind of when you stand back from it, you're like, oh, that kind of figures. That makes sense. Now looking back. Yeah, it's really interesting.

    Matt: that's totally right.

    Anna: What did you, what would you say is like your life motto as it were then? Like if you had kind of one piece. Of information or advice or perhaps like wisdom that you've gleaned through all your years of living so far, like what would that be? What would that motto or piece of life advice be?

    Matt: That's a really interesting question cuz I ask this question a lot to a lot of different people and I often think, how would I answer this? And I have, I, I understand that me as a person, I have certain values, right? Um, and one of them I call on default, uh, which is basically in modern day vernacular, it's like, well, let's think outside the box.

    Um, and this is one of the characteristics that I actually love about God, is he does entirely the unexpected all of the time. And, um, you know, the, the, the foolishness of, you know, the foolish things of how God works and then the wisdom of the world is falling into to God. And you just kind of think it's really fascinating, that whole concept, how that works, right?

    And so, For me, I, I mean, I mentioned it earlier, I am a big proponent of faith that actually faith in a faithful God can change the world. I have to mix that with patience. I. Um, I also have to understand that I don't always hear God right or well. Um, but that God can handle my failure much better than he can handle my disobedience, if that makes sense.

    I'd rather be the guy that does something and gets it wrong than the guy that sits there doing nothing cuz he's not entirely sure if what he should be doing is, is, is right. You see what I mean? Um, the way they said to this, this, to me at Bible school, it's easier to turn a car when it's moving. Um, and I think that's very true, uh, for my life, and that's just how I've approached things and God has been very gracious, uh, as a result of that.

    So, um, all that to say, I would say yes, we have, we can believe and trust in a creator God who is a faithful God, and can have faith that he can move supernaturally. And I've seen him work supernaturally, but I can also have faith in the goodness of God when I just don't experience what I perceive to be the goodness of God.

    In the instance, I feel like I should have it. So, um, I was telling this story to someone the other day. You know, I, I remember when I was early on in my Christian walk, I came across a scripture in Deuteronomy 28, right? Deuteronomy 28 is a really fascinating, uh, chapter in the Bible because I think it's the first 14 or 15 verses.

    Talk about the blessing of God, right? And these blessings shall come upon you and they shall overtake you. Bless shall you be when you come in. Bless shall you be when you go out. I remember when I was at uni, I used to, I told my kids this, actually, they must have thought I was nuts cuz they're now at uni.

    Um, but I, I used to do this thing where I used to take the exam papers and I'd put them on the floor before I turned them over and I would stand on them. Um, and I would just, I would just say, God, everywhere I've put my foot, you have given me Do. you know what I mean? That sort of thing. And it was just a bizarre thing to do, but it was just me at the start of my exam going, God, you've got this.

    I'm just, I'm just hanging onto your coattails. And, um, that's how I experienced miraculous in my exam. I, I want to tell you, some people think it's cheating, but I remember at uni. I was doing Bible school and I was doing uni at the same time, and I was like, God, I'm trying to do it all. But it's just, there's, it's, it feels overwhelming and I'm not quite sure how it's all gonna work out.

    And so I remember God saying to me really clearly, one day I want you to go into, Cause part of my degree was law, and that was my worst module. I want you to go into the law library and I want you to go to the past exam sections. So I went in and I got to the past exam sections and I remember God saying to me, pick out that gears paper.

    And I picked that paper out and I remember that there was like, um, a whole bunch of questions on that paper. And I, I just remember the Holy Spirit saying to me that question there, I want you to spend the next week writing the answer to that question. It was like an essay. I just want you to do that. And I was like, okay.

    So I researched that question. I went and wrote an essay about that question. I had the tutors critique it and all that sort of stuff. Anyway, when it came to my law exam, guess what question was on the exam paper? That exact same question. So when I took my foot off it and turned it over, I was like, oh, thank you, Jesus.

    And I just rehashed, uh, my well research critiqued, uh, essay. Um, So, you know, you, you see God do these miraculous things you do and, and you see them, uh, all, all through your life because blessed when you, blessed when you come in, blessed when you go out. But there's a flip side of this verse in Deuteronomy, these verses talks about the curse.

    Right. And curse shall you be if dot, dot, dot. And it's just not pleasant reading. I have to be you. You don't ever want to fall under the curse of God, at least in my opinion. You don't ever wanna fall under the curse of God. Um, I mean, I could tell you stories about where I think people have done that. I mean, it's just unbelievable.

    I've seen that in business actually. It's a very scary thing. But one of the things it mentions in there is failing eyesight, right? It's part of the curse. And I had really, really bad eyesight. I mean, I wear readers now just cause I'm an old guy. But I, I had really bad eyesight when I was a, when I was growing up.

    And it impacted me in quite major ways. And I remember reading that thinking, well that's a curse. And I've been redeemed from the curse of the law, right? The Galatians three 13. And so I started praying, God, would you heal my eyes? I wanna tell you, um, Nothing happened for years, but for years I just was, every now and again when I'd remember like, God, would you heal?

    I just, I'm believing you for healing on my eyes, you know, cuz of the curse, redemption thing. And I, I thought I could stand on that verse. And then someone said to me once, well, why don't you get the laser eye surgery done? And it just didn't feel right to do for me at that point in time. And then I remember praying, um, Whenever it was maybe about six, seven years ago.

    And I just felt the Holy Spirit say to me, I want you to go get the laser eye surgery done. And we'd, you know, um, we had the money, uh, to do it. And so I went and had the laser eye surgery and I, my eyesight was totally and utterly restored. So you, you, you get this thing where, you know, sometimes God, you see God supernaturally heal like God, I could have just woken up one day and seen perfectly I. I would still say that God healed me, but through the hands of a doctor and all those years of faith and praying meant that when I had that operation, it went impeccably well. Do you see what I mean? Um, and so sometimes I, or quite oftentimes, you see God, uh, work and move in ways which. You know, still kind of cool, but maybe not as cool as him zapping you with

    a lightning bolt.

    You see what I mean? But it's, it's that faith and patience thing that I think is critical. That is key. Um, you know, we talked this Sunday about Jesus lifts us up out of what holds us down, and I still believe in the transformational power of the gospel. I still believe that there is a transforming God out there, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that everything comes out the way that we think it should.

    You know, and that there's. Heartbreak and there's strategy, but in the midst of that, I think God can still lift us up out of what holds us down. So faith and patience.

    Anna: Faith and patience. I love that. I, I think, yeah, so true and such a sort of now word for so many of us. I think so, yeah. Thank you for that. Ma I'm conscious that we're probably rapidly running out of time. Um, so we'll tie this up in a, in a few minutes, but, um, can you just kind of give us a reminder first of where people can reach you if they want to talk about any of this stuff that we've discussed tonight A little bit more.

    Can they connect with you or how do they connect with Crowd? Church, can you tell us where to find you?

    Matt: Yeah, Crowd. Church is online, uh, www.crowd.church, uh, and I have to say it with a strange accent whenever I do crowd.church. Um, uh, and so yeah, crowd's on there. You can reach Crowd on, uh, all the social media. Well, I say on you reached on social media. Uh, Instagram and Facebook. I think we have a dormant Twitter account, uh, but mainly Instagram.

    Uh, we're on, um, just at Crowd Church, um, and me. If you wanna get ahold of me, love to hear from people @mattedmundson on Instagram. You can reach me there. I'll just go to mattedmundson.com. Uh, cuz I have a personal website, you know, cause don't, doesn't everybody,

    Anna: I

    do have a personal website

    Matt: Right. So

    Anna: true we are personally branded people, but this is the age we live in. This is why we need faith and patience.

    Matt: faith, patience and a good personal brand will get you

    Anna: Absolutely. So yes, crowd.church. Easy to find, isn't it? So that's good. So we'll link to all of Matt's information and all of those, uh, connections that he's just listed in the show notes. And you can get them for free along with the transcript at Crowd Church. Or you can get it direct to your inbox if you sign up for our newsletter.

    Matt, thank you so much for giving up some of your time to come and talk to us today and tell us a little bit more about your story. I think there's probably new stuff in there, even for people that need you quite well. So it's just fascinating to hear how your faith has shaped so many different areas of your life.

    So thank you so much for coming on today and sharing that.

    Matt: I know it's been great and we've not planned to talk about most of those things, so we You did very well Anna, uh,

    dealing with my randomness.

    Anna: uh, See what comes up, isn't it? I love it. That's why I love it. It's digging into p real stories in real time today. It's what we're all about. We're all about stories here. So yeah. So there you have it. A great conversation and as I said, a huge thank you to Matt for joining us today.

    And remember to check it out on uh, crowd.church. Um, and do check out Crowd Church as well, even if you don't see the point of church. Cause as you said, you may find that there is one. And you know, also be sure to subscribe to what's the story wherever you get your podcast from. Um, you can rate us reviewers and sign up.

    See you never miss an episode. We've got loads more episodes coming up, so we don't want you to miss out. Um, on any of them, um, What's the Story is produced by Crowd Online. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. The team that makes the show possible is Sadaf Baynon, Estella Robin and Tanya Hutsuliak.

    And our themed song is written by Josh Edmundson. If you'd like to read the transcripts or the notes, as we said, head over to Crowd Church where you can sign up for it all and get all the good stuff directly to your inbox if you prefer. That's it for me. And that's it from Matt for now. So thank you for joining us today and have a fantastic week.

    Sadaf: And just like that, we've reached the end of another fascinating conversation. Remember to check out Crowd Online Church at crowd.church. Don't forget to subscribe to, What's the Story? On your favorite podcast app. We've got a treasure trove of inspiring stories coming your way, and we'd hate for you to miss any of them.

    What's the stories of production of Crowd Online Church are fantastic team, including Anna Kettle, Matt Edmundson, Tanya Hutsuliak, and myself, Sadaf Beynon, and work behind the scenes. To bring these stories to life. Our theme song is the Creative Work of Josh Edmundson. If you're interested in the transcript or show notes, head over to our website.

    whatsthestorypodcast.com. And while you're there, sign up for a free newsletter to get all the goodness delivered straight to your inbox. That's all from us this week. Thank you so much for tuning in, and we'll catch you in the next episode. Bye for now.

 
 

RECENT EPISODES

RECENT LIVESTREAMS

Matt Edmundson
Previous

30: Football, Faith And Finding Your Identity In Christ

Next

28: Knowing God, Knowing Self: A Journey to Freedom