The Unsung Hero of the Nativity
When you picture the nativity, who comes to mind? Mary and Joseph? The wise men with their gifts? Maybe the shepherds or the angels? There's one character who carried the whole journey—literally—and never gets a mention in the credits.
This week at Crowd Church, Ade Birkby made the case for the most overlooked member of the Christmas story: the donkey. Yup. The donkey.
Why the Donkey Deserves a Second Look
The nativity donkey carried Mary on a journey of somewhere between 75 and 90 miles, depending on which route Joseph chose. Four to seven days through rough terrain, possibly hilly country or the sweltering Jordan Valley. It was hard, unglamorous work.
And when the job was done? The donkey stepped back into the background. No fanfare. No Instagram post. Just quiet, faithful service.
Ade pointed out something that feels particularly relevant in our age of "main character syndrome"—that social media culture where everyone's documenting their highlights and positioning themselves at the centre of every story. The donkey did the opposite. It did the hard work, didn't complain, didn't make a big deal about it, and when its task was complete, it simply stepped aside.
What Donkeys Actually Teach Us
In our culture, donkeys don't exactly have a great reputation. We associate them with stubbornness and stupidity.
But donkeys are actually highly intelligent. They work best when they trust their owner. They have excellent eyesight and are sure-footed—ideal for rough terrain. They'll lead and follow a path without needing someone in front of them. They have an incredible sense of predator detection and will position themselves between predator and prey. What we call "stubbornness" is actually a strong sense of self-preservation.
And in the Bible, donkeys appear repeatedly as symbols of humility, peace, and faithful service. Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey—not a warhorse—as a deliberate symbol of humility.
Three Traits Worth Learning
From the nativity donkey, Ade highlighted three characteristics we could all learn from:
Dependability
"Whoever can be trusted with very little, can also be trusted with much." — Luke 16:10
Being dependable takes effort. It requires honesty and consistency. As Ade put it, we need to show we can be trusted with the little things before we expect to be trusted with bigger ones. It's not glamorous, but it matters.
Obedience
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments." — John 14:15
Genuine obedience comes from love, not fear or duty. And it requires action, not just listening or talking. As the old saying goes, you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?
Humility
"God opposes the proud, but shows favor to the humble." — James 4:6
Ade made an important distinction here between two types of pride. There's authentic pride—feeling good about something you've done well. That's healthy. Then there's hubristic pride—believing you're better than others. That's the toxic kind that puts the focus on us rather than where it belongs.
Humility means taking the focus off ourselves and treating others as more important. It's asking, as five-time CrossFit champion Matt Fraser put it: "What are you doing when no one is watching?"
The Christmas Charity Problem
Christmas is when charities see record numbers of volunteers because everyone wants to help during the festive season. It’s part of the Christmas spirit.
But the rest of the year? Nowhere near the same interest.
Most of the real work gets done by people who show up all year round—in January when the skies are grey, in February when motivation has evaporated, in the ordinary months when there's no warm fuzzy feeling attached to helping.
What does that say about our dependability and humility as a culture?
Conversation Street - Putting This Into Practice
During Conversation Street, the conversation turned to practical application.
Who are the "donkeys" in your life?
Matt asked who does all the unglamorous work that makes everything else possible. The answers: people mentioned cleaners, those who set up chairs at church, the tea-and-coffee volunteers, and partners who hold things together at home.
Ade turned it around and called Matt a donkey (in the nicest possible way) because of all the unseen work that goes into making Crowd Church happen for people watching online.
The suggestion? Maybe Christmas is a good time to write a handwritten note or give a small gift to those people who do the unglamorous stuff. Just to let them know they're seen.
Main character syndrome
Josh admitted he's suffered from it. In today's culture, we're driven to be the main person—all the films, all the shows, that's where the attention goes. The people doing hard work in the background rarely get noticed.
Matt reflected on how autobiographies only capture the highlights or the low points—never the 90% of life that happens in between. It's the regular stuff that makes the biggest difference, yet we never celebrate it.
What's your equivalent of putting the chairs out?
Matt shared that he makes the bed almost every morning—350 days a year. Sharon never asked him to. He doesn't get thanked for it. He just does it because it's the right thing to do.
Josh talked about the teeth-brushing routine with three young kids—those small, unglamorous moments where you just step up.
Ade shared his journey from being a busy Christian musician (with his wife Sonia doing countless unseen things) to now being Sonia's primary carer due to her health. All those little things she used to do that he took for granted? He's now doing them himself.
Consistency beats intensity
Ade made a brilliant point about New Year's resolutions. Come January, people sign up for gyms and go on extreme diets. By the end of January, they're burned out.
What if instead, you just moved a bit more and ate a bit healthier all year round?
The same applies to faith. Ten minutes a day in the Bible, done consistently, beats an ambitious hour-a-day plan that falls apart after a week.
Small, bite-sized nuggets of consistency build up over time. It's boring. It's the basics. But the basics, done consistently, are really powerful.
A Question
As we approach Christmas, think about the one thing you could consistently do—whether in your faith, your community, or your service to others—that you won’t necessarily get credit for, but by doing it faithfully, could make a real difference?
It might not be Instagram-worthy. It probably won't make it into anyone's highlights reel. But maybe that's exactly the point.
The donkey carried the most important cargo in history and never got a mention. And yet, without its faithful, unglamorous service, the journey wouldn't have happened.
Perhaps the best Christmas question isn't "How can I be seen?" but "What can I carry?"
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# Nativity Unsung Hero Transcript
[00:00:00]
## Welcome to Crowd Church
Matt Edmundson: Hello and welcome to Crowd Church coming to you live from Liverpool this Sunday night. My name is Matt Edmundson, and whether this is your first time or whether you've been part of our journey since the beginning, it's brilliant to be with you. We are a community of people figuring out what it means to follow Jesus.
In real life, not the polished, perfect version, but you know, the messy, genuine, brilliant reality of this whole thing called Christianity. So let me give you a little roadmap of what's gonna be happening over the next hour. We'll have a talk last about 20 minutes looking at the topic of relationships, which is the section of our series becoming whole, that we are looking at exploring how Christ makes us whole across every domain of life.[00:01:00]
After the talk, we've got conversation streets. Oh yes. This is where we dig into what you've just heard, and you get to be part of that discussion. So if you're with us live, jump into the comments, share your questions, your thoughts, and your stories. And of course, if you're watching on Catchup or listening to the podcast, then thanks for being part of the Crowd too.
Right? Let's meet your hosts and let's get started.
## Meet Your Hosts
Matt Edmundson: Well, good evening. That was slick. Uh, I just realized actually watching that video that maybe that's not the welcome video we should have played to our Christmas service. Uh, given that I was wearing a Goonies t-shirt. Um, but very warm welcome. I've got my Christmas jump on tonight.
So, uh, very, very warm. Welcome to you. Today is a day of, first we have the beautiful man, which is Josh Birch, sat beside me. Josh, welcome man.
Thank you very much. Nice to be here. First time a little [00:02:00] nervous. Yeah. You and me both. You never know what's gonna come outta your mouth. No. Yeah. Good behavior.
Absolutely. So, uh, if you are a regular Crowd, do say hi in the comments. If you're new, also say hi and show Josh some love in the comments as well. Uh, it'd be great to see you tonight.
## Technical Glitches and Greetings
Matt Edmundson: We've also got aid joining us. Uh, aid. Are you there my friend?
Of the evening. Um, maybe you have to go to the other one with Azo. Try that one. Aada. You there dude?
Okay, so guess what I'm gonna be doing during the talk? We're gonna be fixing the first technical issue of the evening. Yes, we are anyway. It's great to be [00:03:00] with you. Jody's in the comments. Jody, you're legend. Uh, how you doing? A's in the comments, lady Burke is in the comments. Luna, uh, all good to hear from you.
Merry Christmas, everybody. Um, yeah, really looking forward to this. 'cause A I'm not gonna spoil a's message. I'm not, I'm gonna let him. Tell you who the unsung hero of the nativity is. So without further ado, let's go straight into AID'S Talk, then Josh, and I'll be back for Conversation Street. Hopefully with aid as well, we will, uh, get that, uh, technical glitch sorted out.
## AID's Christmas Talk: The Unsung Hero
Matt Edmundson: But for now, here's aid with his Christmas talk.
Ade Birkby: Today we're gonna have a look at what we can learn from the unsung nativity story, hero story of Jesus' birth in Bethlehem. And now before I reveal who I am calling the unsung hero, I wanna take a look at the different roles of the different characters in this story. Starting of course, with [00:04:00] Jesus, the lead character, the focal point of the story, the protagonist.
We have Mary, who is the mother of Jesus, the woman who was chosen to bring the baby Jesus into the world, the immaculate conception, a symbol of purity. We have Joseph, who is the husband of Mary, father to the unborn Jesus, and really the family protector and the guardian. That's really his main role Here.
We have the angel. The messenger of God both to Mary when she found out that she would be the one to bring Jesus into this world, but also to the shepherds. Outside of Bethlehem, we have the shepherds who are simple, humble members of
Matt Edmundson: society.
And the
Ade Birkby: Guardian. That's really his main role here. We have the angel, the messenger of God, both to Mary when she found out that she would be the one to bring Jesus into this [00:05:00] world, but also to the shepherds outside of Bethlehem. We have the shepherds who are simple, humble members of society who came to worship when they heard the good news.
We had the wise men who through their studies as they were scholars, had predicted something like this would happen, and they were already searching and they came to worship and to bring gifts of gold, frankincense me, which happened to symbolize his kingship, divinity, and future suffering. There is King Herod, who represents earthly power and opposition to God's will and God's plan.
And then we have the man, well, we assume the man with the least lines, the innkeeper representing just a typical challenge in life, not something that's specifically opposition to God's will, but just for day-to-day challenges that come up. Now, my hero on this. [00:06:00] It's not listed in the cast.
## Lessons from the Donkey
Ade Birkby: So far it is in fact the donkey.
Now let's take a moment to ponder that before we call me nuts. So the donkey's role in this was to carry Mary on that journey and any, any supplies they would've taken. It was a simple and non-glamorous task. But it was also incredibly important, and when you think about today's social media culture of main character syndrome, and look at me do this, that and the other, it was, it was quite literally the opposite.
The donkey did the hard work. Now, as far as we can tell from scripture, it did not complain, didn't make a big deal about it. Didn't say, look at me, and when his task was complete. Or her task complete, they stepped back into the background. So this is nothing like donkey from Shrek. This was a very hardworking and humbly serving donkey.
And these are, these are traits [00:07:00] we can really learn from. Now the journey from Nazareth to, um, Bethlehem would've been one of two different paths, most likely. Now we don't know which one, but we do know could have gone through Samaria, which was the most direct path. Um, however this would have, uh. Avoided going through the hilly regions of Samaria, and due to some of these social and religious tensions, Jews tended to avoid this route, even though it would've been the shorter of the two at approximately 75 miles long.
Um, but even if they had gone that way, you know, hilly country, rough terrain, it still would've been a tough journey. The alternative and the longer but safer route, um, would've been the Jordan way. And this path would've gone east toward the Jordan River Valley. They would've then followed it south, um, along the river and then turn west toward Jerusalem, near Deo, and then [00:08:00] onto Bethlehem.
This was a much hotter. Journey and would've been much more strenuous from that point of view, and would've been about 85 to 90 miles. So we don't know which one we did, but we do know it would've been a big deal for the donkey. And you're probably looking at about, you know, four to seven days travel time, maybe.
Now, when we look at donkeys in our own cultural context, they don't come across very well. So there's an older term for a donkey, which is ass, and we, uh. Tend to associate this with an idiot, in fact, as someone's an idiot, um, it's culturally normal to say or would've been, they are an ass. Um, and then also as someone is stubborn, we have a saying, a stubborn is a mule.
Now admittedly, a mule is, well, only half donkey, half horse, but it's closely related. And overall, donkey doesn't come across as, uh, as overly desirable. Whereas we look at some of the biblical symbology where donkeys are used, you've [00:09:00] got, um, the scene of Jesus riding into Jerusalem before his death on a donkey.
Now in contrast to a king normally riding into a city that would've been on a warhorse. So to come in on a donkey as a real symbol of humility and peace in contrast. Would've been the norm. Uh, story of Baum's donkey, um, is a good example of God's wisdom and power where the donkey can see the angel.
Balam can't donkey stops. It looks dangerous. Balam continues to beat the donkey till eventually. The angel speaks through the donkey, really symbolizing God's power. And finally, there's numerous examples of service, just like the one we're talking about in getting, uh, Joseph and his family from, uh, from Nazarus to Bethlehem.
Very much a symbol of service and obedience.[00:10:00]
Now taking a moment to look at, uh, donkey characteristics. As I said, they don't come across too well in our culture yet. These are really interesting and capable animals. They're actually very intelligent, so our references to them being associated with idiots really are not called for. They work best when they trust their owner.
They have great eyesight and are sure footed so they're ideal for walking through rough terrain and unlike a lot of animals, they will actually lead and follow a path. They don't need a person in front of them to lead them down that path. They have an excellent sense of predator detection, and they will often place themselves in between predator and prey.
In fact, believe it or not, they have been known to kill Fox's coyotes and mountain lions by jumping onto their back legs and flailing with their sharp hod front legs and just kicking. They are perceived as stubborn, [00:11:00] but, uh, donkey experts believe this is due to a, uh, strong sense of self preservation. Um, and interestingly, when you, uh, cross donkey with a horse, you get a mule, which is much stronger than either.
Um, when you think about how do we make a horse stronger, a donkey might mightn't be the first thing you would think about in that.
## Dependability, Obedience, and Humility
Ade Birkby: Now, the key traits that I wanna focus on in this story are dependability. Obedience and humility. They're all things that we can learn from. So starting with dependability, two Timothy two 15, do your best to present yourself to God as one approved.
A worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Now it takes effort. To do your best. It takes mental effort, it takes physical effort. It can take emotional effort, and it's [00:12:00] not a one-off. This is a continual, this is a continual effort. It's hard to do this. And, uh, going on to handling the word of truth, being dependable requires honesty.
'cause you know, we need to say what we do, but being dependent takes effort. It takes honesty. Luke 1610, whoever can be trusted with very little, can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. It's wonderful wisdom in that. And it links into a reasonably famous saying by a person called uh, may Angelou, which is when a person shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
So again, getting back to that theme of honesty, being dependable requires us to be [00:13:00] trustworthy. And being trustworthy obviously implies honesty. And it's important that we can show that we can be trusted with the very little things before we expect to be trusted with the larger things. And finally, Proverbs 20 verse six.
Many claim to have an unfailing love. But a faithful person who can find service would suggest that dependability is actually quite hard to come by and is often claimed more often than it is actually delivered. Many claim this, but a faithful person who can find, so again, we're coming back to honesty here.
So overall, being dependable, it's really about doing our best, being trustworthy, and being honest. When it comes to obedience, John 1415, if you love me, you will keep my commandments. So obedience here [00:14:00] is, is a choice being exercised through love, not fear. Now, genuine love cannot be coerced. It's a choice in itself.
So God wants our obedience to come through love and not through a sense of duty or through fear. James 1 22 be doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving yourselves. So obedience requires action and not just listening or talking. If a person old saying, talk the talk, walk the walk. And that second part really applies here.
You know, without that action, we are not doers. If we're not doers, we're not obeying God, and if we're not obeying God, we are disobeying God. Isaiah one 119. If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the good things of the land. So obedience [00:15:00] is rewarded. And now bearing in mind the context of this would be in a time when people primarily lived off the land.
Um, but there are plenty of ways that God can reward us in our modern lives for our obedience. So obedience is choosing to obey out of love and following that through with action, not just words. And finally coming onto humility, which personally I think this is the hardest one, James four, six. God opposes the proud, but shows favor to the humble God clearly does not tolerate pride.
And when we're talking about pride here, we're talking about the sense of pride that puts a focus on us and not on God. Now there are. Widely accepted to be two different types of pride, both hubristic pride and authentic pride. So Hubristic pride is rooted in an inflated ego and a sense of superiority.
It says, [00:16:00] I am better than others. Authentic pride, on the other hand, is rooted in specific achievements and effort, and it's, I feel good about something I did. It's really this hubristic pride that is. Toxic and that God cannot stand. This is I am better than other people. Now, yes, authentic pride can lead to it, but it's okay to do the best you can for God and to be, take a sense of achievement in the effort that you've done.
But it if not good to go on and make that, oh, aren't I great? I've done this. Looking at Philippines two verse three. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, rather, in humility, value others above yourselves. So put ourselves last. And this is really good advice because if we're putting ourselves last, then we are moving away from any tendency or temptation toward a sense of self superiority.
[00:17:00] So really it's kind of putting us further away from any potential patterns of hubristic pride. So this is really good advice indeed. And finally in Luke 1411, for whoever Exalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. Sir, really pride will result in us being humbled, whereas humility can result in us being honored.
IL humility is about taking the focus off of us and treating others as more important. So it's all right from an academic. Scholarly viewpoint, but how, how can we actually apply this in, in our, in our lives?
## Applying the Lessons in Real Life
Ade Birkby: Well, when it comes to depe dependability, are we trustworthy? Is that what people say about us? Are we consistent in our walk of faith?
And are we there for others when it doesn't suit us? [00:18:00] Because if we're only there when it suits us and we're not there, when it doesn't suit us, are we really putting other people above us? Moving on to obedience. Are we doers or simply just listeners or talkers? Are we making time for God daily to work in our relationship with them, to read our Bible, to spend time in Prayer?
And are we participating in part of the body of Christ or are we an observer? So are we just coming along to church and sitting in the back row and not really being involved, or are we actively playing a part. And with humility, do we strive to take the focus off us, or do we tend toward acts of visible service now five times?
Uh, CrossFit Champion Matt Fraser has a wonderful quote. What are you doing when no one is watching? Now for him, he was really talking about, he's training [00:19:00] his backside off in his basement after everyone's gone home from their local CrossFit box. And he was just doing that constantly and that ultimately added up to a win.
But for us, are we, uh, are we doing acts that are only visible or are we doing acts that no one other than our father in heaven sees?
Now looping back into Christmas time, as you know, we're coming in close to that time of year and we started off on a Christmasy theme with the Christmas donkey and the Nativity story. This is a time of year when charities have an absolute record number of volunteers for Christmas and just just that small period over the Christmas.
And you know, this time of year there's certainly more of a spotlight on that kind of work. Um. If you watch movies on the Hallmark Channel, the Christmas movies, there's a lot of that stuff in movies really amplified there. And the reality is charities generally turn people away, or most people away because they can only facilitate a few more helpers.
And most of our work is done by the people who are [00:20:00] working with those charities all year round. Now, the sad thing is the rest of the year round, there is nowhere near the same interest of getting involved in charities. And you have to wonder, well, what does that say about dependability and humility in our culture?
Then how can we as believers set an example? So the Bible's given us some pretty simple concepts that we can, we can apply right away if, if we're not already. And that is to live by words and not sorry to live by actions and not just by words. We can show trustworthy with the little, no matter how boring things.
And we can value others over ourselves. And now, just to give some very simple examples, you know, in church that could just be putting out chairs, clearing up chairs afterwards, helping with the cleanup, maybe getting onto the, uh, the tea and coffee rotor. Um, I've, I've wor I've been through a lot. I've moved a lot.
I've been to [00:21:00] a lot of different churches and there's, there's generally. Space on the tea and coffee rotor, um, maybe closer to home or our neighborhood. Are there, are there older or disabled, uh, neighbors or family members that, um, would never ask for help but would really be blessed by it? And then of course, as we mentioned, you know, there's plenty of charities that are looking for volunteers all year round.
There are so many ways that we can, uh, we can apply these concepts and be doers. I think key to being doers and keeping that momentum is that we are stronger when we are together Now, Proverbs 27 17, as iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another. So it's really important that we are an active part of a, of a church body or a Christian community, that we have accountability to each other, but we can also encourage each other and help each other.
And so that opens the question, well, where do we fit? [00:22:00] And we got it all sorted, in which case, fantastic. You know, we're, we're already involved. Wonderful. There's always scope to, um, to help and encourage other people to get involved in our local communities, our local church. Are we a passive participant?
Are we a not yet a doer? Well, there's, there's plenty of opportunities to become a doer and, uh, in our local Christian body and even in our local neighborhood around us. Or perhaps we're not in a community or a church, and if that happens to be you out there watching it, then please reach out to Crowd.
Crowd are doing. Distance based church in a way that's quite unique. It's not just watching church on your tv. There's lots of interaction. There'll be interaction in fact in this meeting later on. Um, and there are also midweek house groups where you have some people in the room and some people dialing in.
So there's really a, uh, [00:23:00] a vibrant and wonderful community growing in Crowd. So if you have no community around you. Feel free to reach out and finally, always left to say is have a Merry Christmas, as we are getting quite close to that time of year right now. And please do think about our dear friend the donkey whenever you see a nativity set or a nativity play.
Or of course if you're watching something like the Nativity movie or Shrek. But for now, God bless and have a wonderful Christmas.
## Interactive Q&A Session
Matt Edmundson: Well, thanks aids. Uh, good to be back after that video, uh, of aid speaking. And I loved how aids, you said Merry Christmas at the end of it, not realizing that you're gonna be, uh, also here in hosting, which was, it's great. And I'm glad actually that you clarified that you weren't talking about the Shrek donkey.
'cause I dunno, I dunno if you did this Josh, but [00:24:00] when I first heard about the donkey, I'm like, in my head I'm seeing the Shrek donkey all the time and I dunno why. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Whenever you
Josh Birch: hear
Matt Edmundson: donkey, it's Shrek, isn't it? It is. Which is not that helpful for the Christmas nativity. Um, but yeah.
Good. So let's do this aid. Let's get aid on the screens. Hello. Can you hear me This time? And you've got your Christmas jump on.
Ade Birkby: I have, well actually Christmas T-shirt. I.
Matt Edmundson: Good stuff, man. That's great. Uh, really good question for you aid why, when I asked you to do the talk, um, why did you think about the Christmas donkey? Why the why did you, because I have to be honest with you, in all the years I've been doing this, no one has ever talked about the donkey. Yeah,
Josh Birch: same.
Ade Birkby: Well, I, um, I was telling Sonya, my wife, that, you know, you'd said the, um, the spec is, it's something Christmasy, but it can be [00:25:00] whatever you want.
And by the time I'd finished the ascension, she's like, donkey. And, you know, initially I'm like, yeah, ha ha ha, you love donkeys, I get it. And then I thought about it and I thought, well, why can't we learn something from the donkey? It is after all part of God's creation. We can learn a lot from that. So I just started to think about it and, uh, you've seen the result.
Matt Edmundson: It.
Ade Birkby: Very
Matt Edmundson: good. Love that. Uh, 'cause Sonya said donkey. Um, and the thing is, I can hear Sonya in my head saying donkey as well, which is quite cute. Um, but yeah, no. Great. Good on you man. Now question for you then, guys. Uh, let me stop pulling up the questions. By the way, if you've got questions based on AIDS talk or anything you wanna share, um.
Throw it in the comments, uh, and we will try and either to answer it or to highlight it or, or whatever. But, um, share your stories, share your thoughts, um, in the comments would be good to hear from you. So here's my first question. Chaps, [00:26:00] the donkey carried Mary and Joseph, but never really got a mention in the story.
Who's someone in your life who does all the unglamorous work that makes everything else possible? I'm kind of curious because this is, when I thought about the donkey, this is, you know, from what a was talking about, this is what I'm thinking about. It's like not who are the donkeys in my life. I just wanna be super clear.
Josh Birch: Yeah. I was saying I could get myself in trouble.
Matt Edmundson: You are one of my donkeys. Um, no, no, no. But in terms of obviously the, what aid was talking about in terms of who. Are the people that do all the unglamorous work that don't really get a mention, because I think Christmas is a great time to be thankful for them.
Who, who would you say?
Josh Birch: Yeah. Um, yeah, it's a good question. Um, I know at first when you said that, I was like, my wife does an awful lot for my house, for us and my kids. A lot of it unseen. But as like, I'm, I'm not gonna compare my wife [00:27:00] to a donkey. I'm not going down that route. Definitely not. She might be watching, um.
But then I think that when we're talking about volunteering the church and, and, and being in a church building, obviously you've got your, your unsung heroes, like your cleaners, the people doing the tea and copy. There is quite a bit of work that goes into that. I have done shifts in setting up the chairs and it can be taken for granted.
Overlook. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the times. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: There's a lot of people like that in church, isn't it? There's a lot of people like that in Crowd actually, who do a lot of stuff behind the scenes that you never really hear about. Um. And I think the, the thing about it is the majority of the time, that's the majority of the things that make stuff happen.
Just, Do you know what I mean? It's, uh, I remember once talking to Sharon about this, um, about how. When you read someone's autobiography, like especially a Christian, you know, read a book on say someone like Smith Wigglesworth, who [00:28:00] is quite an extraordinary character in many ways and a lot, you know, the miraculous followed him in in many, and you read the books and you read about the stories and the meetings, what you never read about.
In the pages of those books, because they're writing about either the really good times or sometimes the really bad times. They don't tell you about all the stuff that's in between, which is 90% of life. You know, like when he sat there and was bored, like I was asked, I'm bored. And it's that unglamorous aspect of life that we don't really celebrate even in today's culture.
It's kind of like with the whole Instagram share your best moments kind of thing. But it's this sort of the regular stuff in life that makes the biggest difference, I find.
Josh Birch: Yeah. Yeah. Like you say, you always just see the highlights, don't you? Mm-hmm. You can put it into football terms. You can watch the latest games, see three minute highlights, all the best, show, hard work.
Yeah. Results.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. I love the fact you bought football into this. Yeah, I got
Josh Birch: it in there.[00:29:00]
Matt Edmundson: You got any thoughts on this aid?
Ade Birkby: Yeah, I think in this case, Matt, you are the donkey because, uh, for Sonya and I, we are watching this completely online. We've never stepped foot in Frontline, so it's, you know, it's people like Zoe's, people like Dan, people who are off the camera and we, we never see unless they pop on the, on the actual, you know, Google Hangout at the end, which are doing those unseen things, enable both of those two, you know, to attend Crowd.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, that's a really good point. Um, and thanks for calling me a donkey.
Josh Birch: We could go on up and call a mule if that's a highest standard of donkey
Matt Edmundson: stubborn. Yeah.
## Expressing Gratitude in Everyday Life
Matt Edmundson: But yes, uh, I, I, this is a great question, and actually just in my own life, I, I think about, actually, there's a whole bunch of people that I, I like this idea of just taking a bit of time out.
Just a handwritten note, whether it's a [00:30:00] Christmas card or a little gift or something for those people who do all that sort of unglamorous stuff and just saying thanks. Um, just letting 'em know that they are seen a little bit. Um, I think that would be a really, really cool thing to do. So, yeah. Oh, YouTube's disappeared.
Hang on, let me pull it up. Um, so yeah, I, I think that would be a, a, a great thing to do. Um, okay. So. This ties in actually to the second question.
## Main Character Syndrome and Social Media
Matt Edmundson: Aid mentioned main character syndrome that urge to be at the center of everything. I dunno if you get this, Josh. Maybe it's just me. Um, I wonder if Christmas amplifies this, uh, with all those social media posts about perfect trees and perfect dinners.
What do you think about main character syndrome?
Josh Birch: Yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. I struck a note when A was talking about it and I think, um. Again, in today's society, that's what's driven, isn't it? You wanna be that main person. All the films, you watch, all the shows. It's where all the attention [00:31:00] is. Like you say there.
The people doing the hard work in the background very rarely get noticed. Um, so yeah, I definitely think I've suffered from that over, over the time. Yeah,
## Unseen Work and Appreciation
Matt Edmundson: it's when I'm, when I'm, as I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about, um, COVID. Right. And do you remember during COVID, like everyone was like super thankful for all the NHS workers doing all this amazing, and you worked with the NHS, right?
Josh Birch: Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Um, and so everyone was like super thankful to the NHS workers for what was going on during COVID and, and rightly so. Um, and if you're outside of the uk, the NHS is basically our medical system, um, our hospitals and doctors and all this sort of cool stuff.
Has that, do you think that's died off now or are people still maintaining that kind of appreciation level?
Josh Birch: No, I think it's starting to die off. I,[00:32:00]
all that's gone on now. That has kind of gone a bit by the wayside, I think from, yeah, from certain areas. Yeah. '
Matt Edmundson: cause it strikes me again, um, I suppose at Christmas you are, I'm aware, like some members of our family, paramedics, they get to work Christmas and New Years and they volunteer because they don't have kids.
The people with kids can go off, but they're, they're working, you know, during, during these times doing some incredible stuff. Um, and you kind of think, well, good on you. Thank you for your service kind of thing. But we, this is another one of those things that we don't see, isn't it?
Josh Birch: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It is unseen, unseen work.
I'm, I'm community based in the NHS where I work, so we don't have that acute need. So we can take the time over Christmas, but yeah, a lot of colleagues and friends who work in the acute team will be in there on [00:33:00] the ICU wards and, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Matt Edmundson: So make sure you say thank you guys. Uh, be, be grateful. Um, and the question, I guess, what's the equivalent of you putting the chairs out?
That small, boring task that actually matters, but nobody notice.
## Consistency in Small Acts
Matt Edmundson: I can tell you what I do in my marriage, um, that is, is one of those things that I decided for whatever reasons do years ago, I don't really talk about it, but it's reason this question has reminded me. Um, and it's gonna give you an a time to think of your answers as well.
So I'll go first every morning. I'm gonna say 350 days of the year, right? I will make the bed. Um, Sharon's never demanded it. She never asked me to. I just remember a few years ago, I dunno how long it was, I just remember waking up one morning and going, no, I'm gonna make the bed just what I'm gonna do. Um, and so I've done that every morning [00:34:00] and.
We never talk about it. It's not like Sharon sends me a card every year going, thanks for making the bed love. Um, it's just one of those things that I do, which is unseen. I don't, and I don't need it to be noticed and I'm not doing it to be noticed. I'm doing it just 'cause it's the right thing, if that makes sense.
Uh, and so that's, that's one of the things in my head that's all come. Have you got anything like that?
Josh Birch: I guess there's lots of little specific things I think you generally know. Um, like the initial question, what's the example of putting a chance out? You kind of know what those things are. 'cause they're usually the things you don't want to do, aren't they?
Yeah. They're usually the ones that may go, oh, oh, I haven't got time for that. Oh no. Um, that'll cost too much, um, of my time. But yeah, lot, lots of little examples. I think the, the season we're in now with three children, seven and under is, uh, making sure the kids brush their teeth and the little things like that, me and my wife [00:35:00] kind of look at each other going, it's your, and it's just like, Nope, come on, I'll do it.
And yeah. Scrubbing teeth and getting too faithful over you. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. No, you're at a very different life, life stage. Yeah. Um, yeah. To me, I remember there's a friend of mine I won't name names on, on the live stream. Uh, 'cause I don't think that's fair. But I remember him saying to me once that he just got so angry about having to change another nappy.
He offered his wife 20 qui just to change the nappy. I can see how he gets to that stage. Definitely.
Josh Birch: Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. I was like, dude, isn't it a shared bank account anyway? I'm like, he's like, that's not the point. Yeah. Aid. What about you bud?
Ade Birkby: Um, I think very different situation for me. So I'm gonna slightly rewind back to your first question.
And when we lived, uh, in Redco, not far from Liverpool, um, I was very active as a Christian musician and, uh, could have spent 15 plus hours a week working on music stuff. So Sonya, [00:36:00] as my wife, would've done a lot of things that I would've not seen. I just come home and there was there and know things getting done.
Very supportive. I now find myself, or we, we now find ourselves living in North Wales. And over the last couple of years, um, I somehow ended up becoming, um, Sonya's primary carer as her health got worse and she has severe me. So all those little things that she used to do and um, I'd take for granted, you know, the kind of making the bed.
And uh, although we definitely help with that. I'm, I'm, I'm now finding myself doing and nowhere near as well, um, as, as she would've done so at this point, yeah, you can pretty much name it. Name a, um, just a random, boring, typical household task and you'll find me doing it.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Thanks for sharing. But it's, um, it is a very unique, I mean, it's, it's interesting isn't it?
'cause you've got young kids, Aiden, Sonya, a bit housebound. My kids are [00:37:00] definitely not young. But the principle still stays the same. Right. It's that, that desire, I guess, to get on and, and, and do the right thing.
## The Importance of Year-Round Charity
Matt Edmundson: Ellis has put here in the comments, um, couple of minutes behind, but I like what AIDS said about not just doing things around Christmas, but year round.
I didn't know that about charities actually. It makes a lot of sense. No, it doesn't. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. Um. But are there, like, there are definitely things that I will do at Christmas. Right. Um, and I, I totally agree with you Elli, by the way. Um, I, there are things that I'll definitely do at Christmas, like wear these jumpers.
Um, I'm allowed to wear Christmas jumpers in December, but never outside of December. Right. That's fair enough. Yeah. Um, but I'm not really doing this for humanity.
I'm just doing it 'cause I can get away with it. Um. But it's interesting, like aid was saying, you know about how there's a [00:38:00] lot of charity works. People are feeling that sort of Christmas spirit, I suppose. Um. Around the Christmas break, but in February or even late January when the skies are gray, where the weather's rubbish when you're, you know, cold and struggling mentally, that's not when we tend to get involved and help people.
I thought that was a little bit challenging about you. Definitely,
Josh Birch: yeah. Yeah, no. Yeah. And I feel it myself when it gets to the festive periods. You're kind of, um, looking for that, that bit more. You don't want all the consumerism stuff. Yeah, you can, that can get a bit too much and you think, well, what else, obviously is there too.
It, um, we know as being Christians what the story's about, but Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely challenging isn't it just to. Try and think about that more year round rather than just [00:39:00] being inspired at certain times. Yeah. When it comes to Easter as well, isn't it? You get inspired around the Easter time and you're like, yeah, you do.
Yeah. Let's, let's do stuff. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. The big holidays mm-hmm. There's this really interesting idea about consistency. So, um, in the world of digital marketing, which is where I, I work outside of Crowd, I, I work in e-commerce and digital marketing in, in case you don't know me. There's this idea, um, in digital marketing that consistency wins every time.
That if you can consistently do something at a reasonable standard, that's much better than doing something amazing level one day and rubbish the next day. And you're, you know, you're up and down, up and down. But that consistency, um, beats. The inconsistency every time, and I think it's the same principle here, isn't it?
It's like, what can I get involved with and serve at that is maybe a bit boring? That is a bit unseen, and I do think everyone should do it like you can. [00:40:00] You said you were putting the chairs up. We did that with our family. I thought it was important when our kids were younger, that we served as a family.
And it is unseen that people don't walk up to you all the time. Go, you're doing an amazing job. Keep going. Thank you. Um, and it's like, but consistently doing it, irrespective of whether you get the thanks or not, I think is, that's quite a good character trait to form.
Josh Birch: Yeah, definitely. And about the, the humility.
Yeah. Almost not seeking that, um, uh, the, the congratulations for doing it, isn't it? You kind of do it and you think, actually I want people just to notice or just to, yeah. You try not to. Um, but yeah, it's hard, isn't it? You, you, it's nice to be noticed for the Yeah. The good things that you do.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it is.
Any thoughts on this side?
Ade Birkby: Yeah. I think with consistency it's, um. It's all about getting the basics right and doing something small you can do consistently. Now, you know, think of the season we're in now. Come January people are gonna be signing up to [00:41:00] the gym. They're gonna be on these weird and wonderful diets, living on leaves and all sorts of madness.
And usually by the end of January it's burned out. Yeah. You know what, if you just move a bit more, eat a bit healthy all year round, you'll actually, you know, benefit from the consistency of that.
Our daily. It's okay if we just, you know, spend 10 minutes a day in our Bible works. We're better off doing that and than thinking, you know what, I'm gonna spend an hour a day and then every other day, oh, we're gonna miss this, and then we miss another one. But the small kind of bite size nuggets of consistency they build up over time.
So if it, you know, small amounts of help with the people, small amounts of time studying the word. Time it pays off. It's boring. It's the basics, but the basics consistently over time are really powerful.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah. No, very true. That consistency, reading your Bible, praying and it's not a time thing, it's just, I think consistency wins every day.[00:42:00]
Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Uh, it really does. You just, just doing what's important, just doing what's important every day. And I think it's the same in work. I think it's the same in our faith. It's the same. When it comes to charity, it's the same when it comes to loving and supporting others. Mm-hmm. Um, so I guess there's the challenge for us, isn't it?
What can you consistently do? I asked the guy, I the guys at our office ask 'em all the time, what can we consistently hit an eight out of 10 out? Right. I don't need 10 outta 10. I think it's unattainable to hit that consistently, but if we can hit an eight out of 10 on a regular basis, man, we're gonna kill it.
Right? Mm-hmm. And so, um, yeah, if you're watching this, what's your, what's the one thing that you can do? Where you can consistently hit an eight, outta 10 at doing, whether it's to do with your walk with God, whether it's to do with your community and getting involved, whether it's serving, um, at church, whether it's helping others, what could you do, you could [00:43:00] consistently do that you don't necessarily get credit for, but by consistently doing it.
Incredible things can even, it don't even need to be incredible, incredible things don't happen. 'cause I make the bed every day, but it's an important thing to do. Right. And I think, what could you do? That's a really good thing to journal about and a really good thing to pray about if you're a Christian and, and, and try and understand.
Um, I think it's a really interesting challenge. Mm-hmm. Definitely. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Very good. Very good. Well.
## Upcoming Events and Announcements
Matt Edmundson: Uh, we are going to end the live stream in just a few minutes, but before we do, let me tell you what's gonna happen next. Uh, we are gonna open up the Google meets room. So if you are online and would like to come meet as metaphorically face-to-face, I suppose.
It's just, you know, it's like a zoom call type thing, isn't it? Um, we would love to see you in there. The domain. The URL is, uh, go Crowd Church slash meet. Um, [00:44:00] it's in the comments, uh, just checking. Yes it is. Thank you Zoe. See doing the unseen stuff at the back. Thank you Zoe. Uh, but yeah, come meet is in, there'd be great sort sheet.
A I think's gonna be aid. Are you gonna be in the Google meets? Yes, I'll very good. Uh, Josh and I will also be in the Google meets. We would love to meet you in there and say hello. Um, next week, lemme tell you what's gonna happen next week. We have got the third part of Tivity series coming up. It's gonna be a non-live, live stream.
Now, what do I mean by that? It basically means. Uh, it's gonna be me doing a talk, but we're not gonna have the host and the Conversation Street. Um, we tend to take a few weeks around Christmas where we, we stream out content, but we don't do the host. Live hosting and everyone's just enjoying being at home with their families around the Christmas holidays.
Um, so, but it would be great to see you next week. Come be in the comments, people will be in there as well. Um, and next week we're talking [00:45:00] about, uh. Nativity part three. Um, open doors. I should have, I should know what it is 'cause I've rec, I've recorded the talk earlier. Can't believe I've forgotten about that already.
Anyway, uh, it'll be great to see you in there and the live stream start again, uh, with the host in a couple of weeks in the new year. So do make sure you stick around for that. Of course you can find out everything you need to know about Crowd sign up to the newsletter and all that sort of good stuff.
Uh, over at Crowd Church. Um. We've got a new website coming. It's not live yet. It's gonna be a little while, but when it comes, it's gonna be fantastic. We're so, so excited about it. Also, in January, if you're new to the Christian faith and would like to know more about Christianity, we are gonna be starting an alpha course.
Now there's about 40 of, you've registered already for the online alpha. Um. The details are on the website Crowd Church, I think it's slash Alpha. Um, but you can follow the links, um, on the website. Uh, just let us know if you're interested. I [00:46:00] will send you details. There's no date set yet, but it's gonna be around mid Jan that we start doing that.
So it'd be great to see you in the Alpha, the Alpha course. If you don't know, do you, have you done an Alpha course?
Josh Birch: I love the Alpha. Yeah. Yeah. Did one myself and then we've ran three over the last few years. Um. Yeah. Yeah. Big, big fan. Big fan. Tell everybody about Alpha. Um, there's a little spotlight this morning, wasn't there?
I think it was over 20 years ago, two decades worth, um, was set up and basically a course to ask the big questions of life. What, what is life about? Who is this man? Jesus, what did he do? What did he stand for? What is the Bible? How can we use the Bible, the Holy Spirit? So big questions of life, and then how that fits in with the, with the Christian faith.
And everything around what the Christian faith is and can do in your life.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, that's great. Yeah, it's all about answering those questions about the Christian faith, so if you would like to know more, but like I say, there's more information on the website, we would love to [00:47:00] see you in that. That's gonna be starting mid January.
Like I say, there's about 30, 40 people registered. That doesn't mean 30 or 40 people are gonna join and people do drop out. So don't feel like you're gonna be in a room online with a whole bunch of people. That's not exactly how it'll work. And if there are lots of people, we'll break it out In smaller rooms that's a bit more intimate.
You don't need to turn your camera on and you don't need to turn your microphone on. Um, but my guess is at some point you probably will as you get to know people. And it's actually the same in the Google meet. Uh, if you are a little bit camera shy, don't wanna turn your microphone on. Um, come in anyway.
And just join in on the chat. Um, uh, it'll be great to connect with you even that way. Uh, we will be in there in a couple of minutes, but I think, uh, a anything else from you, bud, before we close? Um, yeah.
Ade Birkby: Donkeys are for life, not just for Christmas. And
Matt Edmundson: uh, there's a
Ade Birkby: lot of that part's funny, but there's a lot of unwanted and abandoned donkeys out there.
And there's a wonderful charity called The Donkey Sanctuary. So [00:48:00] do check 'em out if you'd like to find out more about donkeys and the people who take care of the unwanted donkeys.
Matt Edmundson: Very good. I've never heard that before, right? This is a day of first for me. Um, but very good. Thanks. Aid, uh, anything else from you Mr.
Josh?
Josh Birch: No, thank you for having me. I've enjoyed the experience.
Matt Edmundson: How was your first time hosting?
Josh Birch: Yeah, good. It's hard to know where to look. I've got a camera in front of me. I've got a screen up there, Matt, over there. Um, but yeah, no, it's been good. Thank
Matt Edmundson: you. Very good, very good. Uh, thank you so much for joining us.
Uh, have a phenomenal week wherever you are in the world. Hopefully we'll see you in the Google meets. Um, otherwise, we will see you next week and we will see you live again in a couple of weeks time. If I don't get a chance to tell you before, have a very, very merry Christmas and a happy New Year. God bless you.
We will see you real soon. Bye for [00:49:00] now.
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