The Battle Cry of a Mother's Heart: Faith Through Trials
Guest: Debra McNinch
Meet Debra, a jack-of-all-trades: a devoted wife, a loving mother, a fresh-faced author, and above all, a proud Child of the King. Her life is a colorful tapestry woven with Jesus, coffee, cupcakes, and a love for all that sparkles, set against the backdrop of her Kansas roots. Life threw her a curveball when her child came out as transgender, leading her on a transformative journey of faith, questions, and ultimately, healing. Through it all, she emerged with a powerful message: "The prodigals are coming home," a testament to her belief in the power of redemption and hope.
Here’s a summary of this week’s story:
The Battle Cry of a Mother's Heart: Faith Through Trials
In a heartfelt episode of "What's The Story Podcast," we were honoured to host Debra McNinch, a beacon of faith, resilience, and unconditional love. As the founder of Battle Cry Mom, Debra shared her stirring journey, embodying the essence of a mother's undying love and the power of faith through the most testing times. Here are the key takeaways from a conversation that is bound to leave an indelible mark on every listener's heart.
The Power of Faith in Personal Growth and Family Unity
Debra's tale is a testament to the foundational role of faith in nurturing personal growth and cementing family unity. Her journey, marked by an early awakening to faith, illustrates the profound influence of spiritual beliefs on family dynamics. The decision to rear her children within the embrace of faith was not merely a parental choice but a legacy she aspired to pass down—a legacy tested by time and trials yet unyielded.
Resilience in the Face of Adversity
The announcement from Debra's eldest child could have been a breaking point for many. Yet, for Debra, it marked the beginning of a deeper exploration of her faith and understanding. Her story is a powerful narrative of facing adversity with grace, choosing love and understanding over judgement, and finding an unwavering strength in beliefs long held dear. It's a poignant reminder that true resilience is not about never bending but about how we rise after the fall.
Creating a Supportive Community
Perhaps one of the most striking aspects of Debra's journey is her initiative to found Battle Cry Mom. This platform serves as a haven for parents navigating similar turbulent waters, offering a sanctuary of support, understanding, and shared belief in the transformative power of prayer and faith. This community underscores the essence of collective strength and the impact it has on overcoming personal and shared trials.
Rising Through Faith's Test
Debra McNinch's narrative is more than a story; it's a beacon for anyone in the throes of their battles. "Rising Through Faith's Test" encapsulates the essence of her experience—a journey marked by trials yet underscored by an unshakeable faith and a mother's love that knows no bounds. Her story urges us to look beyond the immediate, to find strength in our beliefs, and to remember that we are never alone in our struggles.
In the end, Debra's message is clear: the trials we face are but stepping stones on our path, each one an opportunity to deepen our faith, to strengthen our bonds, and to remind us of the incredible resilience that lies within us all. As we navigate our trials, let us remember the battle cry of a mother's heart and the testament of faith through the most challenging of times.
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Matt Edmundson: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to What's The Story. We're an inquisitive bunch of hosts from the What's The Story team on a mission to uncover stories about faith and courage from everyday people. And to help us do just that, we get the privilege to chat with amazing guests And delve into their faith journey, the hurdles they've overcome and the life lessons they have learned along the way.
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What's the Story is brought to you by Crowd Church. We understand that stepping into a traditional church might not be everybody's cup of tea, and that's where Crowd Church steps in, [00:01:00] providing a digital sanctuary, a safe space to explore the Christian faith where you can engage in meaningful conversations rather than just simply spectating.
So whether you are new to the Christian faith or are in search of a new church family, we invite you to visit us at www. crowd. church and if you've got any questions just drop us an email at hello at crowd. church. We're here to help and would genuinely love to connect with you. And now, without further ado, Let's meet your host and our very special guest for today.
Sadaf Beynon: I'm Sadaf Beynon and I'm here on What's The Story Podcast with Debra McNinch. She is a believer, she's a mom, and she's the founder of Battle Cry Mom. Now, Debra, thank you so much for being here with us today. Why don't you share with us really briefly, an overview of your [00:02:00] journey, and what led you to where you are today?
Debra McNinch: Yes, thank you so much for having me on. And I just love this opportunity to tell my story. The beginning of my story is probably very typical of so many people. I was saved in high school. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was December 23rd, 1983. I was baptized January 9th, 1984. I could tell you what I was wearing.
I could tell you what I prayed. It was a very real experience. And so that was my journey of following the Lord and just figuring out who he was. And I led that path for a couple of years and like many people, I went to college and just put that all on a back burner and that was secondary to my life for many years.
And I got married and met the love of my life. I've been married to for 32 years now and during that time, we got married, we had kids and it wasn't [00:03:00] until I had my first son that I woke up and was like we need to be in church. And so I always just knew that I wanted to bring my kids up in the faith and I knew it was time for me to really just get serious about who I was and who Jesus was.
And we had three children. We went to church, we did all of those things. And it wasn't until my husband actually got caught in a downsizing and a layoff at his job that I finally like really clung to my faith. I would be telling people, out in public, oh yeah, the Lord has us, we're gonna be okay.
But at home I was crying going, Lord, what are you doing? Are you sure you're gonna take care of me? And it was during that time that I really found out who the Lord was. And he does. He just became more than just my savior. He became my Lord. And that was a turning point for me in my faith, and it was no looking back after that.
And so I feel like we raised our kids, we did all the things. We have been [00:04:00] on this journey of moving. My husband's job has moved us nine times, and so we're professional movers. I always say, we like to tell people we play hide and seek, but on a national level. And so my husband goes and hides, and then the family finds him.
That was what we would always tell people. And we have had an incredible journey of seeing new places discovering new cities and new friends and new churches. And it has just been an amazing walk with the Lord. Our kids were amazing. We had the, I always say we were rock star parents, we came through the teenage years with no problems.
Yeah, and I just loved my little family. So that kind of gets us up to the modern day, where my life changed.
Sadaf Beynon: Thank you, Debra, for sharing that. And I want to unpack that a bit more. So tell me how your faith influenced the foundations of your family life and parenting style because you said after you had your first son, [00:05:00] you were like, okay, we need to get back to church.
So how did your faith influence that?
Debra McNinch: So I really feel we did all the Christian things that you're supposed to do. We were active in church. Our kids went to youth group, we hosted youth group, we prayed we believed, we sent them to Christian school.
And then they went to Christian college, so I feel like we did all of these things to really give them a foundation of who we are and who our family was. And what we believed. And I think I always thought their faith was very strong in what they believed. And I just assumed that since this was our family's belief, and this was my belief, it would just automatically roll over to the children.
Like they didn't have a choice. I chose for them. And what I found out later that's not the case.
Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. Yeah. We're going to get into that. I just wanted to go back to what you said about your, playing hide and seek across the country. Yeah. How did your faith keep you guys connected and strong as a family [00:06:00] unit, even with all that moving around?
Cause that's got to take its toll eventually.
Debra McNinch: It does. I think there, I always say there's probably a million advantages that we gave our children with moving. And there was probably a million disadvantages at the same time with moving and always starting over and always being the new kid. It was always such a good time.
I always had these little things I would do with my kids before we would move. I would send off to like the chamber of commerce of our new city and get a, like a broke, like a whole packet of stuff to do in the area and we would just unpack all that. And sometimes I would get a map and we would study the maps so we could find shortcuts to get around town and we would, it was just always an adventure.
We just always considered it. I always liked it. That Steven Curtis Chapman song, The Great Adventure and we would always play that on the day I was pulling out of the driveway with my kids to move to a new town. I was like, we're putting on the great adventure today because we just always looked at it as the [00:07:00] Lord had set us.
We never went anywhere that the Lord didn't tell us to go. And so I felt like that was like the central part of our faith was. Sometimes you listen to the Lord and you have to do things maybe you don't want to move to like, we had to leave a lot of good friends, a lot of good churches over the years, a lot of good things to follow the Lord's leading.
And it's always worked out, it's always been amazing, and I'm so thankful.
Sadaf Beynon: That's really quite incredible, actually, being able to follow the Lord's leading in full obedience. And yeah, you're right, when you do that, it is such an enriching experience. Yeah. So when we had our pre call where we talked and got to know each other, one of the things you talked about was a very pivotal moment in life.
So I was wondering if you could take us back to that time when you received that phone call and just tell our listeners a bit about, about your journey from that point.
Debra McNinch: Yes, I would love to. So like I said, we raised three kids [00:08:00] and they were all adults out of our house in college, out of college, on their own.
And we, I was just sitting back, I was, it was like, I was, I had built this beach house on the beach and then Malibu beach house. And I was just looking at the ocean all the time, just waiting for like the grandkids to roll in, just waiting for the next steps. Because we had done our jobs and had raised these amazing kids, and I never knew there's this famous picture that you can look up and find on the internet.
It's of the tsunami and in Thailand when it hit and it's all these people on the beach and there's this picture of this huge wave that's offshore that's coming in and nobody on that beach knew that they were getting ready to be hit with this wave and I always feel like that's like a picture of my life.
I was sitting on this beach in my beach house waiting for the next steps to happen and what I didn't know was there was a wave getting ready to come in and hit me and that wave came in the form of a phone [00:09:00] call. From my oldest child that needed to call me one day and said, mom. I'm transgender. And those words at that time, one, I honestly didn't know what it meant at that time.
That was really still very early in the journey with this, with the movement that we see today. And I didn't, I am honestly, I didn't know what it was going to mean for me. For not just him and his journey, but ultimately what it was going to be for my family and my journey and my faith journey. And so that phone call was that wave that knocked down that house that I had built.
And what was left was me standing on this firm foundation. And I would go back to that old kid song, the wise man builds his house upon the rock. So I had to decide if my house was built upon the rock. Or was it on the sand and it was going to sink? And that was like a pivotal moment in my faith.
Sadaf Beynon: Can you take us back to that [00:10:00] call that you got and share with us your immediate thoughts and feelings when you heard your son out?
Debra McNinch: Yes. I feel like I could have written a book of a thousand things that went through my head in 10 seconds. Because there were so many things. But the very, very first thing that I remember when I hung up that phone call that day was I heard the Lord very clearly say to me, it is your job to love him.
It is my job to save him. And I knew right there that somehow it was going to be okay someday. But it was my job as a mom to love him where he was at and love him through it. And it was going to be the kindness, like the word says, the kindness of the Lord that brings us to repentance. It was going to have to be the Lord's kindness that would draw him to salvation one day.
And my first thoughts were, what in the [00:11:00] world I had, someone many years before that, I'd even had a dream before that one day I would write a book and one day I would speak about this book and I never really put too much stock in that. It was just something in my head for 20 years.
Oh, maybe someday I will write this book about how to be a perfect parent because maybe that's all I knew, is how to be a good parent. And then this happened and I was like, are you kidding? Is this going to be about like, there's no way. There's no way I could talk about this. It took me years past this phone call to be able to form the words of say what I was feeling.
And the journey I was now on was not one that I chose. But it was what the Lord had put us on, and I had to decide, am I going to be faithful and still love the Lord, or what is this going to look like for me?
Sadaf Beynon: Yeah. I love that. What the Lord gave you was that to love your son was your job and to save him is God's job.
And that's [00:12:00] so true, isn't it? Like we, we don't do the saving that's God's department. We do the praying. So what was that, what was it like? I had imagined there would be a sense of embarrassment and like, you've had this family that you have nurtured for so long and and then you're going back out into your community with this understanding of where your son's at.
And I would, maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but was there a sense of embarrassment? Was there a sense of shame? How did you get to the point where you're able to hold your head high?
Debra McNinch: Yeah. So all of those things, I went through, years of all of those emotions. I went through shame and I went through embarrassment, but I always want to come back to the embarrassment was not on him.
I wasn't embarrassed about him and he was my son and making this choice. The embarrassment came on me that I felt like I was supposed to be a perfect parent and I wasn't. If people were going to be talking about that. And so that was my [00:13:00] pride also that I realized. And so during all of this, the Lord just had to tear down every single thing that was in me to get me to where I could be a vessel that he could use to tell this story. And so definitely there was shame. And it took years to really learn how to lay that down and hold my head high and say that our family looks like this. And when this first happened, I promised myself three things. If I could ever find a way out of this pain, I would tell people, I would talk about our story.
Even if I cried the whole time, even if I rambled on like a crazy lady, like I would tell the story because I know there was other moms. I didn't know any at the time, but I knew there had to be other moms like me out there that needed support. And I just promised that I would build a support group for moms that they, people like me that had kids that didn't take on the faith of their families that we [00:14:00] thought we would.
What can we do? How do we survive? How do we get through this? And then I also promised that I would never stop believing that God was a God of miracles and that He alone can part the sea. And so I could just trust that He had a plan for my family and it was good. And so those were the things at the beginning that I had to just get through and believe and work through every.
Every little step of the way. I know we talked about besides shame and embarrassment and hurt. There was a lot of jealousy that really rose up in my spirit as well that I didn't even know was there. And I had really become jealous of other families. I would go to church and I'd see little perfect families sitting with their perfectly dressed children.
And I can remember that. That one day that was me, not too many years before, but then I was just so jealous that it wasn't my family now. And that was never going to happen. I wasn't going to have that moment [00:15:00] where all my kids would come home and we'd go to church together on Easter or whatever.
And so it was a loss of dreams. It was just, it was a jealousy of what everybody else had that I didn't. Everybody, it seemed that I knew, with our age group and our friends, they were starting to have grandchildren. And I didn't even know I wanted grandchildren, I didn't even had never even thought about that.
And then all of a sudden everybody was having a grand baby except me. And it just got to the point that, Lord, are you kidding? This is, I want this too.
Yeah.
Sadaf Beynon: No, you're absolutely right. I didn't mean embarrassment like for him. But yeah, no, but yeah, I completely agree. And you're right, maybe pride.
It's a better word for that. You've shared a bit about how this pivotal moment challenged you personally, the aftermath of that call, like the challenges you faced personally. What was it like within the family? So you've [00:16:00] got, I know you've got two other kids, your husband what was that like?
Debra McNinch: We had been a very close type of family prior to that. And, with that announcement, it split the waters and then it felt like everybody was taking a side of where to land on that. And so what used to be, a tight knit family was now one that didn't speak anymore.
Kids that don't communicate so that what that means, not just like for their relationship, but also meant that Christmas was never going to happen at my house again. I was never going to have those holiday dinners that everybody else had. And this announcement changed everything.
It wasn't just this one kind of thing for my child. It affected every part of my life and the dreams that I had and I thought was going to happen.
Sadaf Beynon: So how did you lean on your faith then during this time? Like how did you hold every, how did you keep your family together? How did you keep yourself together? Were there moments of doubt? [00:17:00] Were there or like revelation even that maybe reshaped you as a person?
Debra McNinch: So I think it was a daily walk and, I know now that's what the Lord asks us to do.
He doesn't ask us to pray for 20 years, but he asks us to walk with him today. And I had, I think my brain went to a lot of, almost research, if you will, in a way. And so I have found that the church, I'm going to talk about the Capital C Church, the church as a whole had two dorms.
And I could walk door A over here was, your child has made a huge mistake. You must turn him out and not talk to him anymore. Yeah. This is not God's will. You've got to let him go. And then there was this door over here that said, Oh no, we affirm this decision. This is perfect. He can be anything he wants to be.
God still loves him. And I had to wrestle with those two kind of doors for a long time. It was like, I had to make a choice of where I was going to land on this [00:18:00] issue. And this is why so many parents maybe once had a strong faith and you've seen them walk away when a decision like this hits them because there's no real option as to what to do, and there's no real guidance. And so I found myself not going through door A and I wasn't gonna go through door B, that I was gonna create a door C. And that door is going to be one where I could love and support my child as a person, but at the same time, hold dear to my faith and not compromise on what I know the word of God says. Yeah. And how that went together for me was luckily a lot of parents, their children won't talk to them or they become estranged during these seasons. But I've been very fortunate that I've maintained a relationship with my kid that I love very dearly.
During all of this, it was just this big wrestle every day of where do I fit in the church now? Do I even, can I still go to church? Does God still love me? [00:19:00] That was a question that I would wrestle with a lot. And if I love my child, does that mean I'm going to hell? These are the things that would keep me awake at night.
Like, where do I fit? Get into the big scheme of things, into God's plan. Do I even have a purpose anymore? Do I have, did he use me for anything anymore because of this? Because I failed as a parent. I felt like I had failed to raise Christian children. And so therefore, like what, he's not going to trust me with anything else.
But as I unpacked this over the years and just really wrestled with what he was saying, I just really came to this like realization that I cannot hate my child to heaven.
I can't hate him so much that he'll go to heaven. But on the other hand, I cannot love him straight to hell. I have to love him in the truth.
And so for me, that was my journey was just figuring out who I was in the Lord and who [00:20:00] I could be. And it was actually during a, we had moved to a new place and I had started going to this Bible study and I had not told anybody my story in our new town. And one night the Bible study the kind of talk went around that movement, the LGBT movement, and I had planned on not saying anything as I normally do. I just stay out of the conversation, but there was something about that particular day that something that was said there that just struck me right in my soul. And I knew it was time to speak up. That I wasn't going to hold my head with embarrassment.
I wasn't going to hold my head in shame, but I was going to speak up and say, this is what I am walking through. This is what God is doing. And this is who God is. And I had to make a choice that day to not that, it says in Revelation that we will overcome by the blood of the Lamb, the word of our testimony.
And I [00:21:00] had to decide that night that I was going to speak up and I was going to do it brave and I was gonna do it with the Lord and his spirit guiding me. And so it was a daily journey. There's still days I get out of bed and think, I don't think I can do this. I wish this wasn't my life.
There's days I get out of bed and I'm like, I had this heap of ashes on the ground that was broken and disabled.
And God put those back together into something beautiful and I'm so
Sadaf Beynon: thankful. Yeah, absolutely. I might be going off on a tangent here. Maybe it's a conversation for another podcast. But I guess one of the things as you're talking, it's makes me wonder what could church do differently, to make it easier for like where you were at, you had to find a door C that wasn't obvious.
You had to look for it and find it. So how can church support people that would be in
your position?
Debra McNinch: A great conversation to have and I think there's, that's such a wide [00:22:00] open door to talk about. We have, there's some political things mixed in this message. And so a lot of churches, they don't want any part of anything to do with any of that.
Yeah. But our churches as a whole, I believe they've become these country clubs, where people have to come put together. People have to come put together in their perfect outfits and their perfect makeup and their perfect hair, singing the perfect songs every Sunday. And it got away from the hospital for broken people that it used to be.
And that's been my experience, I should say in churches. And so I think we have to get back to just having a time. I have never been in a church where I have heard the pastor preach on the prodigal son and ask, who has a prodigal child? Who is brave enough to stand up right here in the sanctuary before the Lord and say, I do, and then come down front.
I don't have a problem with preachers preaching God's Word in truth and saying [00:23:00] that different lifestyles and different things goes against His plan. People ask me if I get offended. Absolutely do not. I can't get offended by the word of God because it's truth. But what hurts me is the fact that the next message should be, so we're going to get on our faces right now on this altar before the Lord, and we're going to pray these kids home.
So that should be the next message. I know the Lord gave me a vision one day of the church. And it was like this big puzzle. And the puzzle, you could see the picture, it was almost all together. There was this one piece missing at the bottom. And the church is ready for the rapture.
We are ready to get out of here. We're just, we want God to come get us again. Get us home. We're all ready. We're all itching to go home. But there's that. And I feel like the church is saying, yeah, we can see the picture. It's fine. Let's just go and get out of here. But that one piece is still missing.
That one piece is our children. And until that piece is back and the prodigals are home, we have work to do. And we're not going to be raptured out of here [00:24:00] until all of the children are home. And so my message to the churches is just to say, stand with your parents, ask them, who has a prodigal child, come along beside them.
When your child dies or you have a tragedy happen, people show up at your door with casseroles and Hallmark cards. When you have a prodigal child and you've lost the family that you thought you had and the dreams that you thought you had, nobody comes by with cookies. And so there's just, nobody knows what to say sometimes, and so they don't say anything, but we have to do better about getting into people's stories and sharing their pain with them.
I like to call them our mat carriers. I love the story, the paralytic that it took four people to get that person before Jesus. I need friends. I have to have people to help me to get my child before the Lord.
Sadaf Beynon: That's great. Thank you for sharing that. I think you're absolutely right.
Okay. I want to keep moving. So I want to talk about Battle Cry Mom. Yes. [00:25:00] So tell us about that, tell us what's the heart of that mission or message, however you want to put it.
Debra McNinch: Yeah. So when, like I said, when this first happened, I was alone. I didn't know what I was going to do, who I was going to tell, but I knew there had to be another mom out there, a mom like me that had the same values and the same hopes for her family.
And so what the Lord gave me was just the ability to start my own kind of social media network. And it was just a group that, I honestly, from the beginning, I thought there might be a hundred moms. I had a goal, Ooh, if we could get a hundred moms going through what I was going through, that would be amazing.
And so we launched a couple of years ago, and we're coming up on our third anniversary in May. But what it is, it's just this, it's like your major social media networks, but it has nothing to do with them. So inside my group, it would be like a Facebook inside. That's how it operates.
So what it is, it's just a place for moms that have prodigal [00:26:00] children or grandmas or aunts or uncles or next door neighbors. If you know a prodigal and you're praying for them, you're welcome in our group. So it's beautiful spot. When I first got this idea to start it, I thought that is going to be the most depressing group in the history of the world.
Like who's going to want to be in there with crying moms all day. But really it's not, it is the most hope filled, joyful group I could have ever, I didn't even imagine that the Lord knew. And so what we do together is we believe together, we pray together, and we hope together, and we encourage each other.
It's modeled after Moses and Aaron and Hur. When Moses was fighting the armies, and he had his arms up, and he was too tired, and so he put him down, and they would start to lose the battle. Two friends came and helped him, and that's what we do for one another. We hold each other's arms up in this battle.
This is a war we are in for our children. And for this nation and for our world, [00:27:00] and we have got to get to a stance of fighting, but we don't fight for victory, we fight from victory, because Jesus already has the victory, and so it's just a beautiful place that we gather, and in the main group, we also have broken down into little groups.
And so if you're a mom with an LGBTQ kid and there's a group for you, if you're a mom that has a child in prison, there's a group for you. If you have a, if you're a mom that has a child addicted to drugs, there's a group for you. If you're a mom that has a child that you don't talk to, there's a group for you.
And if you're a mom that just has a kid that simply doesn't believe there's a group for you. So within our big group, we have all these little groups. And so what that does is it allows me to contact and to just connect with other moms walking through the exact same thing. Yeah. And then we can bounce ideas off of each other.
Sadaf Beynon: That's very cool. And I love how you, you said this earlier about praying your children home, and [00:28:00] it's not just in the LGBTQ area, it's, oh yeah, it's all the prodigals in whatever shape or form, right? Yeah.
Debra McNinch: Yes. There's lost and there's found, yes. There's not levels. There's not levels.
Sometimes I feel like we might be at a level 10, but there are not levels. There's just lost and found.
Sadaf Beynon: , So in these groups that you've got and this community that you're in now, you rub shoulders with so many different moms.
How has creating this community impacted you personally?
Debra McNinch: It has been like I said before, like I had this like ashes on the ground and I never would have dreamed that something beautiful would have come out of it and I can't make it for me personally. It has been my lifeline. It has been just the most beautiful, like part of my life, I didn't even know I needed.
And when in our group, we talk about something that the Lord kind of gave me at the beginning called our battle plan. Yeah. And it's just a very simple five step plan, but we just [00:29:00] talk about each step and we just, it's just this group that like, I hear a song on the radio and I'll post it and be like, Hey, the song spoke to me today.
Or somebody will be like, I read this book. This verse this morning, and they'll post it and be like, this is what it means. And this is what I hear the Lord saying about it for our children. And so it's just this encouragement and it's all centered in God's word. And we are a very non denominational site.
I tell people that's one of the very first things we tell them when they join is we do not discuss politics. We don't care who the president is. We don't care if he had a vaccine. We don't care who you voted for. All we care about is if the Lord, you know what he's doing in your life and that he's going to bring your child home.
And so we have anywhere from Pentecostals to Lutherans to Catholics. We have every denomination represented in our group, but we stay focused on the one thing. It's our one thing. Our one thing is bringing our children back to Jesus. [00:30:00]
Sadaf Beynon: That's incredible. So through this from having that call, to three years ago, creating this community of moms and where you are at now, how has your perception of God's love and grace
evolved?
Debra McNinch: I think before I was very, probably just because of my upbringing, just very I didn't realize there were so many facets of his love and how he could love and not even that he could love my children in different ways. It was me, I didn't know he could love me through some of my ugliness.
And so I have such a wider range of who God is and his love and what he calls us to do and walking in that and we all want these really Christians are so fun, like we want these really shiny ministries, like we just want this everybody wants to be us. We want these ministries.
They want to be the face, I always [00:31:00] joke in our group. I'm like, if you're looking for a spokes model with fake eyelashes on Instagram, like you aren't the wrong lady. Like I'm the one with bags under her eyes because I've been on the ground crying and crying all morning. And I have really learned to separate like Christianity worldly, like what it looks like and what the book of Acts says it looks like.
And I think with our group, it all started with in home groups and it all started with just telling people about Jesus door to door. And I think our group is really, we went back to the basics of what that looks like. And I think for me personally, that's what I've learned that like this whole stage performance Christianity, It isn't really what I was looking for in my life, and it wasn't where I was at.
And I'm just so thankful for my roots that I had, and I'm so thankful for what the Lord has done in my life and where he's led me. And I'm just thankful for this path that I'm on. If without that phone call, I would not have found the Lord that I know [00:32:00] today.
It changed my life. What I originally thought was for horrible reasons, but it was for the better, it was for God, and it's beautiful.
Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I remember something you said that actually stuck with me in, when we first spoke a few weeks ago, and you were talking about pointing kids to Jesus, not to church. Yes. The difference between that, and I thought it was a great point. I was wondering if you'd want to go into that a bit.
Debra McNinch: Yes, I love that.
Of course, when you're in this position, you're going to always ask yourself, what did I do wrong? Where did I go wrong? And I don't know if there was, if there's just like one thing I could point to that I wish I would have done different, but I do know one huge thing that would have made a huge difference, I think now.
And I always tell young moms that don't take your kids to church. Don't take them to church, take them to Jesus. And I wish I would have spent more time in [00:33:00] personal prayer and taking my kids to the Lord and just showing him, showing them like who he is and his miracles and letting them see those things in their life.
I was very faithful to take them to church. And I was very faithful to send them to Christian school, and I was very faithful to send them to youth group. But I feel like I wish I would have taken them to Jesus into that relationship more than introducing them to religion, which failed them.
Sadaf Beynon: Yeah.
Debra McNinch: I feel like in our churches, a lot of times too, we have gotten away from singing old hymns and we sing a lot of praise courses and I love both, you think back in the day, like our old hymns were all about theology, the verses unpacked a problem, And then they introduce the solution to the problem.
In our praise choruses, the things we sing now, we sing about how great God is, and He is so mighty, and He is so great. But we don't ever see the struggle and how He fixed them in the end. [00:34:00] And I think that's just a thing in the church as well, that we don't really do a great job of showing our kids that life is going to have these struggles.
Yeah. And that God is bigger than any of them and he's, he can work through them with you instead of just walking away and deconstructing your faith because you found something that hurt you, that you didn't like what they said, we need to learn how to wrestle through the hard things together.
And I wish I would have done that more with my kids.
Sadaf Beynon: What other lessons do you feel like you've learned through this, or are learning maybe?
Debra McNinch: I've learned that God had two kids, Adam and Eve, and they both were prodigals from the beginning. So even he didn't get that right at the beginning, I always joke, even he struggled with like kids that obeyed them.
And we really have to get to the point that you have to let the shame go and you have to let the what a could a should a go of what I would have done different. And I had to get to that point where I had to come to three [00:35:00] steps. I call it gas, my gas movement. I had to go, I had to go to the altar.
And I had to lay it all down and give it to the Lord and not pick it back up. I had the A in gas. I had to ask, I went to my child and I asked for forgiveness. And I said, if there was something I didn't teach you about the Lord, or if there was some confusion, or if I did something that led you astray, I'm asking for forgiveness for that.
Because that was never my intention. My intention was for you to fall in love with Jesus. And I think we have to be honest with ourselves and just ask if there was something that we did ask for forgiveness. And then the C, we have to stand. Like I said before we fight from victory. It says in Galatians that we or infusions that we need to put on the armor of God.
And so after you put on all of those things, it says to stand, and then the next word. and then stand. So once you've done all this and stand, the second stand is where faith comes in. So I am going to make sure that [00:36:00] I'm doing everything the Lord calls me to do. And I've put on my armor and I am prayed up and I am where I'm supposed to be.
But then my job is done. My job is to stand and stand in faith and to give it to the Lord and watch him work.
Sadaf Beynon: That's amazing. Thanks for sharing that.
Debra McNinch: Yes. Yes.
Sadaf Beynon: That is absolutely true what you're saying.
Debra, can you, if you're happy to share, what has your husband's journey been like as a dad? And as a husband to you, as you're doing Battle Cry Mom, what's that look like?
Debra McNinch: It is, it's a whole different journey and we all, one thing I've realized through all of this is we all have a different faith.
We all started in a different place and we all hear from the Lord in our heart language of how he speaks to us. And I've noticed for my husband, but also for other husbands of our Battle Cry Moms, they just have a whole different journey. I'm have been working through this. And a lot of [00:37:00] times they're very silent on the matter.
A lot of times in these situations, particularly that they take it upon themselves, the shame and the hurt that they were the head of the family and their kids took a different path and it's all their fault and it's hard to get out of that. And so I would say his journey is completely different from mine.
And so it's, I think it's probably in some ways harder. As being that the father of the house just because of what they take on. And it definitely is hard. It's hard to speak about. And it's hard. Again, you see all your friends and they get all these things and their kids are doing all of these things and you just thought your family was going to look like this and now it doesn't.
And so it's just hard to like work through that and figure out like where I am. I know that we probably don't talk about it as much as we should because we talk about it from different angles, I think for me, I'm the mom and I held a child in my arms and said, I will never stop loving you and I will fight for you every [00:38:00] day of my life.
And I know that I counted the cost when I started this whole journey of speaking about it and the cost was going to be high. I knew that there would be times that maybe my friends would turn their back on me because maybe I took a stance that wasn't theirs. I know the Lord said people are gonna unfriend you, and I'm a people pleaser, so that was gonna be hard.
I knew that was gonna be hard, but I knew that there might come a day that even my own kids might say, mom, you need to quit talking about this. This isn't, I don't like what you're saying or I don't want you to do, but I always say, I have counted the cost. And we all have to do that in whatever ministry God puts us in.
We count the cost and the earthly cost might be that I lose relationship with people, but I live in a heavenly world and I am waiting for the next great thing when I get to heaven, and it is my goal to not have Christmas dinner on this earth. It's my goal to have all of my children around the marriage supper of the lamb's table, [00:39:00] and that is what I am. I'm just keeping eternity in mind and I believe my husband is as well. And we might have different journeys to how we get there with them. But we have eternity in mind and I, we have counted the costs that are on this earth. It doesn't matter what happens because all that matters is that my family and my friends and those I love and every product out there makes it to heaven and that's what we're focusing on. We're not going to get caught up on the and the differences of what we believe and the differences of how to get there. We're focusing on the end goal to get our kids to heaven.
Sadaf Beynon: Yeah, I love what you're saying because and I love that you are so heavenly minded about it all with your feet very much on the ground. But heavenly minded at the same time, because I think that's what we are, as believers, called to do. And as you said, counting the cost, what does that mean for us here?
But what does that mean for us in eternity?
Debra McNinch: Absolutely.
Sadaf Beynon: If you could share one core message with parents [00:40:00] that might be going through a similar trial or other hardships what would that be?
Debra McNinch: There's so many Bible stories, that are my favorite. And I tend to say that about every one of them. This is my favorite. But I really do love the story with King David. When him and his men were out fighting, and they came home, and they found out that the enemy came in. And stole their wives and their children and burned their homes down and took their kids away.
And there was this moment in David's life in that with his men that they just wailed and cried for the loss that they had. That was so great. But there was a moment that they got up and David sought the Lord. It says in his word that he sought the Lord and the Lord, he asked, Lord, what am I going to do?
And the Lord said, you're going to pursue him. And David and his men made a decision that day that the enemy might have came in to steal your families and your children, but you're going to pursue them, and you're going to get them back, and there's not going to be a hair on their head harmed. And I believe that is the message that I would love to share with parents today, [00:41:00] that the message of Battle Cry is no one fights alone.
And so we are in this together, and we are going to persevere sue our children. We're going to refuse. I love the story where it talks about Jeremiah, about Rachel weeping for her children and the loss. It was symbolic of the loss when the, when Israelites were going into captivity, it was symbolic when they were passing her tomb, the Rachel weeping for her children, that every dream that she had for this nation was lost in that moment as they were going on.
But if you go on to read, after this, Happened. The Lord said that he was gonna bring them back from the land of the enemy. And so Rachel refused to be comforted. And that's my other message is that we pursue our families and we refuse to be comforted. We refuse to listen to the world, say that our kids are like this and it's okay.
We refuse to say that this is, they're all. Can live any lifestyle they want and they're going to be okay. We refuse to believe the lies of the enemy. And so we're going to [00:42:00] pursue our families. We're going to refuse and we're going to, nobody fights alone. That is my message is that we are in this together.
And if you need a group, if you need a support group, please join us on Battle Cry Moms because we are in this together. This message isn't always for the big capital C church because they're all wrapped up in their own little ministries. This message is for any mom. That is out there listening that says, yes, this is me.
I am alone and I need support.
Sadaf Beynon: That's very powerful. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, you're right. I think we do look for for comfort and a palatable response that we can swallow. And that seems right by society, but actually. Refusing that comfort is, once
again, keeping your faith and your eyes on the Lord.
So looking forward then, I know you said you've got a book coming. You've got this community that you've built what are your hopes for [00:43:00] that? Where is it heading? Can you share a bit about that?
Debra McNinch: Yes. And so what started with me and a couple of friends in Battle Cry, and like I had said, I hoped we would have a hundred people someday.
I thought that would be amazing. Right now as of today, we have over 1200 moms from around the world. Some of them are from other countries and it grows every single day. And every single day, and it's just a word of mouth movement. It's just a grassroots movement. If you're listening and you don't have a prodigal, I bet you know someone that does.
Tell them about us. And so my hope is that we grow it to as big as it needs to be, if that's 10, 000, if that's 100, 000, but my ultimate goal is that I can close this down and we have to, we do away with it because all the prodigals are home and we don't need it any longer. And so that's the ultimate goal is to put ourselves out of a job here.
But my book I did, I wrote a book about All of this and what the, all the wrestlings of the Lord it's my story of just what he's [00:44:00] brought me through and where he's led me. And it is coming out, I believe, September 1st. And so we'll be doing some pre sales for that this summer. And I'm super excited and scared all at the same time about the story that God is faithful and I know if it helps one mom, then it's worth it all.
Sadaf Beynon: That's great. That's really great. We'll add all that information to our show notes, Debra, as we I'm conscious of time. So as we wrap up, could you tell our listeners that if, how they can connect with you? So if they're interested in being part of Battle Cry Mom or checking it out or accessing any other resources that you could recommend or just to, maybe get in touch with you directly and just have a chat.
What would be a good way to do that?
Debra McNinch: Yeah, so I would love to, if you have any questions, you, I would love for you to contact me. You can email me at battlecrymoms@yahoo.com. You could get on my website, which is [00:45:00] www.debbiemcninch.com, and you can get all kinds of information on there. We put printables on there.
We put the battle plan on there, how to pray for your children. And if you're a mom or a dad and you want this community, you can join us at battlecrymoms.Com, or battlecrydads.com . And we would love for you, you would be welcomed in and you would think you've known these women for your whole life.
It's a very welcoming group and we would just love anybody that needs support. And I would love to come out if you have a church or an organization or just want to get coffee. I would tell our story and talk to anybody that wants to hear it.
Sadaf Beynon: Thanks for that, Debra. I'll add all that to our show notes.
Is there anything else that you would like to share with our audience that we haven't covered today?
Debra McNinch: I just want to say again that it's all glory to God. He is our Savior. He is our King. And He is coming soon. And so we have work to do and we need to get busy.
Sadaf Beynon: [00:46:00] Absolutely. Debra, thank you so much for coming on.
I really have appreciated you being so candid with us today. And I love listening to your heart the hope that you hold for what's coming in a very near future, hopefully. And the faith that you have. And the community that you're building and pointing all of, all those moms and dads towards Jesus as well.
It's really quite incredible. So thank you so much for sharing with us. It's been really great to have you on. Thank you so much.
Matt Edmundson: And just like that, we have reached the end of another fascinating conversation. Now remember to check out Crowd Church at www. crowd. church, even if you might not see the point of church. You see, we are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus can help us live a more meaningful life. We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith, [00:47:00] and a place where you can contribute and grow.
And you are welcome at Crowd Church. Don't forget to subscribe to the What's The Story Podcast on your favourite podcast app, because we've got a treasure trove of inspiring stories coming your way, and we would basically hate for you to miss any of them. And just in case no one has told you yet today, remember you are awesome.
Yes, you are. Created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. What's the Story is a production of Crowd Church. Our fantastic team, including Anna Kettle, Sadaf Beynon, and me, Matt Edmundson and Tanya Hutzalak, work behind the scenes tirelessly to bring you all these fabulous, Stories. Our theme song is a creative work of Josh Edmundson.
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Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. We'll catch you next time. Bye for now.