13: The Need to Encourage Men

What's the Story

30 Nov

Today’s Guest: Alistair Marshall

Alistair Marshall is a husband and father to 3 amazing daughters, an avid cyclist, lives in Liverpool and works as a Cardio Thoracic Surgical Practitioner. He's been a great friend for many years and has a real heart for the hearts of men. He is an absolute legend, so you will love this conversation!

Here’s a summary of this week’s story:

Al is known as a hugger, something he started doing intentionally to show vulnerability and encourage people, especially men.
Al's dad and grand dad were very important figures in his life and an example of how the male community should work. He lost them both within a space of months when he was quite young. This left a massive gap in Al's life, which he filled by retreating into his relationship with God.
However, after a near-death experience of his own, Al found himself moving away from God. Through a series of fortunate events, Al reconnected with Jesus and began to fill the void that he had created.
He was born dyslexic and struggled in school because of it. Despite being told by his career's officer that boys like him "don't go into the caring professions", Al went on to have an incredibly successful career in surgery.
Al's active prayer life helps him think and pray for others.
He quotes Julian of Norwich saying "All shall be well, all shall be well. There is a force of love moving through the universe that holds us fast and will never let us go."

Links & Resources from today’s story

David and Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell
Al’s FaceBook

Also listen to:

Grace and Truth with Matt Edmundson
What does the Bible say about Being a Man? with Al Marshall

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Matt Edmundson: Welcome to what's the story? My name is Matt Edmundson, and this is a podcast full of stories about faith and courage from everyday people. And today I am chatting with the Amazing Al Marshall. We're gonna be talking about what it's like to fall off a mountain. Uh, what it was like when he walked away from God and how, despite being dyslexic, has found himself working in surgery, open heart surgery for the last 30 years.
But before we get into that with Al, one thing that I want to do is give a bit of a shout out to past, past, uh, livestreams that we've had on Crowd. A couple that I think you might want to check. Check out the talk called Grace and truth, fantastic talk, even if I do say so myself. Very handsome man delivered that talk.
Uh, and also check out what does the bible say about men? Uh, I we're going to hear from Al, and who's got a real heart for men. So check that one out. What does the bible say about men? Very interesting talk. You can find these and our entire archive of episodes and livestreams on our website for free at www.crowd.church.
And whilst you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter and each week we will email you, uh, the links from the show, uh, and the notes from the conversation and all that kind of good stuff. It goes direct to your inbox, totally for free. You don't miss anything. Uh, we just send it to you. It's great.
So make sure you sign up for that. This episode is brought to you by my rather croaky voice, uh, and also by Crowd Online Church. You know what? I appreciate that not everybody sees the point of church. Not everybody wants to go to church, uh, and not everybody can even get into a church building, even if you want to go, and this is where Online Church works super well.
It is a safe space to explore the Christian faith. And the thing that I love about Crowd Church is that you get to join in the conversation so they don't just talk at you. Uh, if you've never been to church before, or if you're looking for a new church, a church, a new church, do check out Crowd Church.
The website is www.crowd.church, uh, or you can email me directly at matt@crowd.church with any questions. Now, all that said, I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while. Al Marshall, Alistair Marshall is a husband to the beautiful Rach Marshall, who has also been on Crowd Church. Uh, he is a father to three very beautiful daughters.
He's an avid cyclist, a big FC fan. He lives in Liverpool and works as a cardiothoracic surgical practitioner. He has been my great friend for many years, has a real heart, uh, for the hearts of men. He is an absolute legend. So you're gonna love this conversation. Al, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here, my friend.
How are we doing?
Al Marshall: Thank you very much. Well, it's, it's a great honor to, uh, to have been invited to, uh, join you on the, on this podcast. I, uh, I'm learning so much, just even in the last 20 minutes,
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. As we've been rapidly trying to get sorted for the show.
Al Marshall: So I'm, uh, uh, I'm loving it. I'm loving it already, and I'm loving. I'm very excited to, uh, to see where we end up, um, in our conversation. I do enjoy a good chat and, uh, and, um, it seems to make perfect sense to be able to have a chat with, with yourself Matt, who I love dearly.
Uh, and, uh, and everyone else can listen in if you like.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Just geg into the conversation with me and Al. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Now we've known each other for a while, right? I said it in the intro. We've known each other for many years. I, I'm trying to figure out how long it's actually been.
Al Marshall: Well, I think it's around, uh, 22. It's about 22 years I think. Yeah. Around, I'm gonna say around that maybe a little bit longer. Yeah. Um, cuz when you get to a certain age, I'm gonna be honest. Time slides a little.
Things happened yesterday happened 20 years ago when things happened tomorrow. Heaven only knows. Heaven only knows So. Yeah. So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go with around 22, 23 years. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. That would've been my guess.
Al Marshall: Which is a good chunker time. And I'm gonna be honest there. I'd love every minute that I've known you, my brother.
So hopefully we've got another 25 years to go.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the thing, isn't it? It's, um, it, it will carry on. I was talking, uh, recently with a guy called Brett Curry who was on the, what's the Story podcast? And we started talking, uh, in the show. We started, we started the opening by just talking about what it was, about the importance of, let me put it this way, about the importance of having, um, same-sex friendships.
and certainly for men having good, strong male friends, and we were, we were waxing lyrical about the, the benefits of this and the beauty of this. Yeah. And, um, and so I'm very grateful you, grateful for you, bro, because you're, you're a great friend and, and I, and it's such a privilege, isn't it, to have those kind of relationships with other men.
Al Marshall: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. It's crucial. I think it's, you know, I completely agree. Um, I certainly couldn't have managed in my, uh, um, developments as a young man, uh, and into adulthood and continuing into adulthood without significant male, um, uh, companions to be able to walk with, to talk with, to, uh, to be able to pray with, um, to even just listen.
Um, I think one of the great things about, um, recent times is there's been quite a lot of conversation around men. Men's mental health. Mm-hmm. and, and, uh, don't suffer alone. Mm-hmm, there's been a few very high profile celebrities talking about that. Even just on Saturday evening, uh, on strictly come dancing, it was mentioned.
And, and, and I actually think that it's, it's long overdue. Yeah. Because certainly from our perspective, we are very blessed, aren't we? Uh, the fact that we, that we have significant male friends who, who we aren't afraid to go to or talk to. Um, but that isn't the case, I think, within a lot of male society.
Yeah. And the, and the great thing about it is, is, is I think the, the message is beginning to get out there, but it's certainly that we've got a lot more to do, um, to encourage guys to open up to other guys because not to be, not too fine a point on it.. Um, but I think sometimes you have to, uh, have a male to open up to, um, talk about the things that men need to talk about.
Yeah. Um, and it, uh, you know, I mean, as you say, I'm, I'm very blessed. I'm very, uh, happily married. Um, but in my married life, there have been times when, um, I've not been able to speak to Rachel Yeah. About, about various things in my, in my, even in my mindset, in my thinking. And I've needed that person to go to, to be able to pray with, talk to, um, even shout at, to, to be honest, you know?
And that's, and that's something that, that has been very important. I felt that I've needed to do that for other men over the years to be able to provide somebody just to be able to share the chair with, you know. Mm. . Um, I, I, I do love a good hook. Mm-hmm, and, and I'm gonna be honest, I think, uh, I think guys hook very well and I think, I think, you know, there needs to be more guy love, if that makes sense.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, it does. It does. It's one of the things that actually in church you are known for, isn't it? Al the hugger Marshall. Right. And, um, and I think if you're gonna be known for, so it's not a bad thing to be known for. You know, you, you, you are, you are very, um, you are very physical with other men. And I think actually in a society which has not always thought that was a great idea, um mm-hmm it, there is something about that which is quite powerful, right? Just the ability to hug another man and he, and that's okay. And he can be, uh, a little bit more vulnerable. He can, he can. It just is, it is what it is, right? So I think it's a powerful thing, bro. .
Al Marshall: Yeah. Yeah. Completely. And you know, there, just as an aside on the old hook front, um, if you hug somebody for 10 seconds, you, you, um, have a, a significant impact on that person.
And it, it, when you think about 10 seconds, doesn't sound like a long time, but it can become quite uncomfortable. Mm-hmm.. Um, but there is something very special about needing a hug and being able to go somewhere for a hug and, and initially to be uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. and then maybe, you know, it to, to have the desired effect.
And that is maybe to open up that opportunity for a conversation. Yeah. Um, obviously I, you know, I do, as a caveat, I do tend to like to know the people I'm gonna hug .
Matt Edmundson: You just don't randomly walk up to strangers on the street,
Al Marshall: hello every now and then cross my mind. It's too much to be careful for society at present
Matt Edmundson: yeah, no, I appreciate that. So was this, um, because I, it's one of those things I've always known about, I've always associated with Al, Al equals hook, right? Just always the way we've greeted one another, which is, is a beautiful thing. But was it an intentional thing for you to deliberately go out of your way to hug other men as a sign of greeting because it wasn't a common practice?
Uh, certainly 20 years ago. Um, so was it intentional? Was it deliberate or was it just something that you was, you were brought up with and have carried on?
Al Marshall: Um, well, That's a very interesting question. I think I, I've never drilled down too much into that. All I know is that, that within, within the gospels, it says to greet your brother with a holy kiss.
Mm-hmm.. Um, and, uh, obviously that would be a, a different, uh, uh, connotation on a hook. Um, but within that culture, there, there was a movement to encourage to, and I think I, I do like to encourage people and I think, I think by natural progression, I think it's easier to, to show, um, an instance emotion if you like.
Yeah. Because we're pleased, aren't we, to see each other. Yeah. And, and there's something very, I think there's something very masculine about being able to hug your brother. Hug your friend. Mm-hmm. and uh, so it's, it is something that, that my, my dad was very, um, he was a, he was a hugger. Um, uh, and the reason for that was because he didn't have, um, so much in the way of family life.
And, uh, so I think he, cuz I've got two brothers. I think for, for us, we were, um, very tactile with my dad. My dad was very tactilewith us. So I think, I think that was clearly a seed that was sown, but I definitely think there's, there's um, uh, there's a real strength, um, to be, to being able to show your vulnerability.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, an extensive written, extensive things written about, about the power of a hug. Yeah. But I've always found it very, um, Uh, important.
Matt Edmundson: So, yeah. Yeah. No, and you, uh, great. I mean, you, you just brought up your dad there. One of the things that I do know about you Al, is your dad is a very important figure in your life, isn't he?
Al Marshall: He's a very important man. He was a very important man to me. Um, and that's another thing. I think one of the reasons that I've got a heart for men is because my dad was such an amazing example. Unfortunately, he, he, he, uh, was killed in an industrial accident, um, just before my 16th birthday. Um, and that was a shock cuz he was a very strong, very, um, very powerful figure in my life.
Very, um, um, what's the word I'm looking for? He, he was larger than life. Yeah. So to lose him when we did as a family was obviously a shock. Mm. But, what it did do is it actually left a massive space, um, in our lives, uh, certainly in my life. And, um, I was blessed in as much as we were brought up within a church environment where, um, there were enough men within the church to be able to look out for me and my brothers.
Yeah. And that made a real difference. So losing my dad was, was dreadful. And, and I, to be honest, it's a long, long time ago and I still miss him. I still miss him. Um, but it gave me an opportunity to see the example of, of how male community could work and how it should work. Um, and, and no one should stand alone, should have to stand alone.
Um, and we certainly felt the love of the church and felt the love of the, the, the male community within the church. And that's something that I'm quite passionate about still. No, no man should stand alone. So, yes. And I, to be honest, a significant, uh, um, male role model in my grandfather as well. Who Yeah.
Who I was particularly close to, uh, as well. And he died two months after my father. Um, so they were significant men, very real significant men in my life. And to lose them both within, um, uh, a few months of each other was terribly upsetting. And, and as you say, I still haven't recovered really, I don't think. And, and to be able to handle grief at that age, I needed people to talk to.
I need, I needed people to cry with. Uh, And there were, there were men at the time who, who would, um, listen to me, um, try and figure it out. And most of all, actually, that's when I found, um, my faith, um, right. Uh, it was at that point that I, I was missing my father so much and my grandfather, uh, I retreated into, um, into, uh, my relationship with God and with understanding Jesus.
Yeah. And, and who is probably the most significant male in my life to this day, um, on what I learned about myself and what I've learned over the years about myself is being a, had a direct impact from, uh, the life in terms of Jesus. So,
Matt Edmundson: yeah. That's really interesting. So was it the, um, cuz obviously, uh, you know, you've got a real heart for men, uh, you understand, um, quite deeply I think the father heart and nature of God. It's one of the things which I, I associate with you. And has that come out of then the relationship that you had with your dad, with your grandfather and perhaps the loss of them that caused you to, to sort of connect all the dots and bring all this together?
Al Marshall: Absolutely, definitely. And I think, I think there's, there's a huge amount being written, um, about, about generalization and there's lots of, lots of different subject that we can get into and conversations that we can have, but certainly the emotion of, um, Of understanding the father heart and understanding what, what a male needs, what I needed at that time.
And also, but, but what we need as men. Yeah. Um, to walk, to talk to, uh, you know, to, to, to learn from the, the gentility and strength of, of a role model like Christ certainly has always been my inspiration because he never necessarily gave all the answers to direct questions. But what he did do was he walked and he spent time and he put an arm around, um, and he encouraged, and then he would give an answer.
Mm-hmm. but it would come from a place of understanding. and it takes time. It takes time to build these relationships. It takes time to appreciate that, that we are, uh, that we can be vulnerable. Mm. That we can be honest. Um, and that, that we can get company and help. Yeah. Um, with whatever it is that we're facing.
Cause I think as guys, certainly within Western society, I think we're supposed to have the answers. Um, and that is my feeling sometimes that I'm supposed to have the answer. I'm supposed to figure it out. Um, and sometimes I actually can't. Yeah. And being honest and vulnerable enough to be able to say, I'm struggling with this, or this is how I'm feeling at the moment.
Mm-hmm. um, was something that I felt very early on that was important to actually sort of, to try and liberate male society to be that vulnerable. And when you're vulnerable and when you're honest, I actually think that that's the moment where we, we can receive the help we need. Yeah. And nine times outta 10 we've got the answers.
We just need to pause and maybe pray with a friend or brother to walk. And it's just standing how often when you walk and talk, but the time you finish your walk and talk, you do feel better and you do feel better. You can take that next step further. So, yeah. Um, I dunno whether this is answering the questions that you're asking me, but, um, Somebody said that, that when I start talking, it's like a stream, um, of, of consciousness.
It just comes out. It comes from, yeah. You know, and I think sometimes that can be the case, but when you, when you, when you are passionate about something and I'm passionate about men's health, mental health and emotional health and spiritual health, um, I suppose that's really where the rubber hits the road for me.
Yeah. Yeah. No, no one should be left out. No one should be left alone or, or on their own, um, without significant conversation.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. So, um, you dig into your relationship with God when you are 16, then because of the passing of both your dad and your, your grandfather, um, Was it all sunshine and rainbows from that point?
Was your walk with God, I mean, I kind of gave a clue a little bit. You walked away, didn't you? At some point in the, in the instruction. What happened there?
Al Marshall: Um, I actually, it was quite interesting because what, when you're younger, you think, you think you've got all sorted, and, and you get into a rhythm, don't you?
Mm-hmm. Um, and, and I, I felt like I had it all sorted and I felt like I, I've got to a point where my life was, you know, ticking over. Thanks very much. Um, and I found myself in a very peculiar situation. Um, I was away, um, with the Boys Brigade and I was enough in the boys brigade, and because of my own stupidity, I managed to fall 45 feet into a, into a heap from the top of a cliff to the bottom of a cliff.
Uh, I put a crack on my neck. Um, I damaged my knee and my ankle and, uh, on both my wrists, and I actually, um, realized my mortality at that point. Right? This is a long time ago. I was a very early 20s, and my, my world crumbled because I thought until that point I thought I was invincible.
And I, and I closed down and I did everything that we'd been talking about, uh, that you shouldn't do. I isolated myself, um, and I started to, uh, move away from God. Um, and I managed to, to avoid, uh, or I felt like I'd managed to avoid any contact. I walk away from my church, so I walked away from uh, all my friends, uh, everybody was very puzzled by my responses.
And I think I was particularly puzzled too, um, because this had been the real first challenge, um, apart from the death of my father and grandfather that I faced. So once I've rebuilt myself, I, I'd gone so far away from the concept of church and attending Church that, uh, I managed to stay away for seven years, which is quite a biblical number, and the avenues level rocked on me.
Um, and I, the irony was, is, is within that timeframe I managed to, uh, um, secure a job. Yeah. Which I still do, uh, and still adore. I still love. So I started to educate and I started to educate myself in this, in this new role, in this new professional life. And I met some amazing people and I found myself in some very peculiar places.
Um, but I knew, I always knew that it was something that, that was missing. I was always desperately trying to fill the void that, um, I'd, I'd managed to create, um, because of moving away from God. Yeah. And a series of very fortunate events took place, um, through investigations into other world religions. Um, each time I researched and I read something new and it just seemed to be pointing back to Jesus.
Always seemed to point back to Jesus, which was really amazing because yeah, I affectionately called Jesus my first love, and it always, it just seemed to make sense to move, begin to move back into, into, um, a relationship. And I didn't know how to do it, didn't want to go back to my old family church. Yeah.
The whole family self in the, in, uh, the church that we attend. Um, and I cried for, oh, a few weeks I reckon. Oh, wow. I used to walk in, I used to walk in at seven o'clock in the morning after I stand in the morning and I'd weep from the minute I walked in the door. And so the end of the service, and I'd walk out again.
Uh, and, and it was, it was just like a, it was just like God was peeling me like an onion, taking away all of his hurts and pain and, uh, disappointment, shame, all of the negative emotions that we find ourselves in. And, and they put up barriers more and more. And I found myself getting more and more vulnerable and actually sort of becoming myself again.
Um, and from that perspective, it's easy to look back and think, well, I wish I hadn't have done that. I wish I hadn't have done that, or Why did I do that? I don't feel like about anything that I ended up doing. Right. I don't, I don't feel disappointed, um, because it brought me to this place. Yeah, it's brought me.
It helped me to become who I am now. And I think if I'd have stayed as I was, um, maybe I wouldn't have gone into the professional role that I did. Maybe, you know, I wouldn't have ended up meeting all the people that I did. Maybe I wouldn't have found myself in these very different types of environments, understanding about different types of people and different cultures, which, you know, were spectacular.
Yeah. And I'm so glad for, for the, for this work, this view of the world because of that situation. Yeah. Um, so I, I feel very blessed to, uh, to have been on the journey. And, and it, I'm really excited to see what happens every day. I'm gonna be honest. Uh, I have this overwhelming excitement about every day.
Yeah. I think, I think falling 45 feet will do that to you.
Matt Edmundson: It's like a consequence. You fall, you survive. It's gonna change your outlook on life.
Al Marshall: It certainly makes you thankful for every day, to be honest. It, it makes you really thankful for the small things to, you know, uh, the light, the sun, you know, the birds you see, this is where I sound like a hippie. Now you see.
And you said about the rainbows and the, uh, and the unicorns. Mm-hmm. Man, you know, that's me right there, right there. So, yeah. So, but, but I think it's fair to say that the experience of being away from God, although painful was, um, when I came home, to reconnect and to, to learn more of my first love Jesus then, yeah.
That was the game changer, really.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Oh, fantastic. And in this, uh, something that you kind of glossed over a little bit was you found the job, which you are still currently doing, your cardiothoracic role. And one of the things I remember you saying is, dyslexic boys like me don't go into medicine. And yet, and yet here you are.
How did, how did it all come about?
Al Marshall: Oh, well, that's a fantastically interesting, uh, conversation. I think that's a, that's a whole different, um, hour. Um,
Matt Edmundson: yeah. Just give us a condensed version then.
Al Marshall: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can, yeah. Um, I was really blessed, um, because I always had an interest in helping people and being with people and, cause of my dyslexia, I, um, I always struggled at school, so my careers officer, um, many, many years ago.
And, uh, when I went to see him and to sort talk to him about career's advice, he smiled at me and he said to me, Al, he said, boys like you, boys like you don't go into the caring professions. So his career's advice to me at the time was, was, you know, maybe to just sign on. Oh, wow. And essentially see what happens next.
Matt Edmundson: Um, sorry, um, sorry. Just explain what you mean by sign on for those that might not know. Listening to the podcast. Oh, um, .
Al Marshall: So, uh, yeah, so, um, go on an unemployment benefit. Mm-hmm.. And that really upset me because, because it felt like I was being excluded. And, um, and it really upset me. And I went, uh, I went home, and this is probably the most important conversation, one of the most important conversations in my life.
Mm-hmm.. I went home and, uh, uh, told my mum and she sent me to see my granddad, um, who, uh, was a wonderful, gentle man. And I sat down and I was sat at the table and he made me cup of tea, and I told him the story and he said, do you believe him? Al, do you believe him? So I actually said, no, I don't believe him. And he said to me, well, it's up to you.
It's up to you to, to figure this out. It's up to you to work this out. But, but, but I believe in you. Yeah. And I believe in you can do this. And this is when I was 15, 14, 15. So fast forward, um, em to, uh, me leaving school with no qualifications. And it was at that point in my life that I began to, uh, enter the, the, uh, work market.
And I started to learn and educate as I went to educate myself. Mm-hmm.. And fast forward with that again. Um, with various places and courses, formal and informal. I managed to, um, secure this, uh, very, um, cutting edge role, uh, within, within Cardiothoracics. Um, and they, uh, seconded me to, to anatomy and physiology.
Yeah. So a long time seems very different now for, uh, um, my professional buddy. Um, and we started a journey together, um, um, and it became my obsession. Surgery became my obsession, and I'm very honored to, to have been in the role for as it is nearly 30 years, and I've never regretted for one minute Mm. The, uh, the journey that it's taken me on.
And I've never, I find myself pinching myself to be, um, uh, to been involved to, to, to be involved with such an incredible professional group. Yeah. Um, And to be able to look after people, which is that which was my heart's desire right from when I was a child. Mm. The cities of doors that were open for me and, uh, that they say that, um, well, every fiber in my being I thought I should say no.
And yet I managed to say yes. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it's, but, and it's the best Yes I've ever, I've ever done. Yeah. Because that, that role, that journey into, into professional life, the, the work that it took to actually get me into the, the exams that I passed, the, um, was astounding. And it was all, all with the help of fantastic faculty.
Mm. A fantastic, um, group of extremely motivated professionals. Mm. So, yeah, I mean, and I've not, as I say that's nearly 30 years and uh,
Matt Edmundson: it's interesting, isn't it? Cuz 30, well, when you were at school and one I was at school, which was a fair few years ago, it's fair to say, oh, dyslexia wasn't a thing. I don't remember anyone ever talking about dyslexia when I was at school.
You were just called lazy, right? And just told to work harder. Whereas now people acknowledge it and recognize it like they do ADHD and all these sorts of things, which just back then was, was not a big deal. So when you say you left school without qualifications and that, that's not because, that's not because you were lazy back then.
It just was this unrecognized thing and you just kind of went and, and so your careers advisors like, oh, just sign on because there was no other language to put to it right.
No.
Al Marshall: Well, and that's the thing. I mean, you know, it, it, it really, it really isn't a criticism of the education system of those days. I think it was because, um, I mean, I was fortunate.
I was spotted by an incredible teacher called Mr. Guy. Um, and he, I think he probably, on reflection, I think he'd just come outta university. And maybe it was one of those things that they were talking about in teacher training college. I don't know. Um, um, but he spotted my, um, my clear gift for conversation. And by that I mean I used to talk a lot.
Gift of the Gab. Yeah. Yeah. I had the gift of the gab. Yeah. And, and he, I think, started me into a journey where I got extra help. Um, and I, I started to, to move up the educational ladder a little bit. Um, uh, when they realized that, that I wasn't, I wasn't just a nice kid who talked a lot, that I actually, there was a, there was an obstacle mm-hmm.
Um, I think that obstacle now is, is, is depreciating and it's still very difficult journey for a lot of children, I think, when they're diagnosed with dyslexia. Yeah. Um, but it certainly is a lot more understood, uh, now, and it helps there. If required, um, it's still not an easy thing, but it definitely, definitely is something that, um, I've always seen as my gift.
I've never seen dyslexia as, as a, as a negative. It's, I always find it quite tough. I still find it tough even. At 56 years old. I still struggle, um, with misspelling things and, and um, when I get tired I can't, can't read properly. I still find that quite difficult. Um, but it's a journey. It's a journey. And I put, you know, you put mechanisms to be able to navigate through these things.
Yeah. Um, but it's definitely, I definitely see it as a gift.
Matt Edmundson: It's an interesting outlook to have, isn't it? Because, um, the book this springs to my mind is David and Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell. Cuz in that book he talks about dyslexia, doesn't he? And he talks about how. Uh, you can see it as a, as a curse, but you can also see it as a blessing.
And actually, if you look at some more entrepreneurs, uh, and millionaires are dyslexic than, than, than not. Do you know what I mean? It's like the, the, the ability to find a mechanism, to find a way through to deal with the stuff that you've got to deal with that, that maybe I didn't have to deal with cause I didn't have dyslexia gives you this fight, this hustle, this ability to solve problems that maybe others are lacking.
And so it's interesting that out of something, which would be classed as a curse comes this blessing. Um, and it, it's almost like there's a repeat and pattern isn't there with, um, the, the bad thing happens. Your, your father dies, your grandfather dies out of that. Yeah. You find Christ.
The bad thing happens. You fall off the mountain. Do you know what I mean? And you sort of go through this period of, um, of, of wandering away and discovering a life of goodness. Uh, but then, you know, out of that you, you rediscover Christ. And in that you find Rach and then the, the kids. And so it's interesting how out of all of these sort of scenarios, sort of good seems to come.
Al Marshall: Yeah. And uh, one of my, um, I love to be honest, I love quotes. Okay. One of my favorite quotes, and it may be Misco, I don't know, but one of my favorite quotes is, is Albert San asked the questions, you live in a friendly universe or a hostile universe, you choose. And I believe that it's a friendly universe.
I believe that. Some people have the most horrendous things happen to them. Yeah. And yet they, and yet they come through them. Um, uh, and for those who can't come through them, then I believe that there should be somebody there for them to help them at least walk together. Yeah. Alongside of, and I think from that, my perspective, I've always been very optimistic.
It's, it's my natural default to want to see the good in, in every situation. To want to try and find a good, that's not always easy. And I know, I know it may sound glib, um, but if you boil it right down to the fact that we breathe,
If you boil it right down to the fact that we're alive mm-hmm. Anything after that is a bonus. Yep. Your heart beaten. Uh, I've spent a long time, very, very incredibly blessed time, um, being a privy to, to people's beating hearts and they are astounding. Yeah. The heart is an incredible organ. Not just because it beats 60 times a minute, not just cuz it moves blood around the body, but it's because it's perfect.
Mm. It it, we cannot come anywhere near designing something so spectacular. and we walk around with these things. Mm-hmm. We've got them. They're going now. Mm. As we sit here, our heart are working. Our brains are functioning. We, our ears are picking up the sounds that are words. Our mouths are articulating noises in our throats.
our kidneys are functioning. Our liver is. Some people's bladders function very well. So much so that they might need to pop to loo. But, you know, the, the body's an incredible thing and it's so beautifully balanced and so beautifully, uh, put together. Uh, um, and I just think that that is a very, it's a great place to begin. Every morning we get up, have a great day because what's the alternative?
Yeah, is my little mantra. Um, even if I'm told to get myself up to do what I do, I have to tell myself that this is a great day because what's the alternative. So, yeah. Um, a, a profoundly optimistic person. Um, and I think it's because I did, did feel that earth move, if you like, when I, when I hurt myself, um, and I realized I came quite close to, uh, to a eternity and I wasn't quite ready for it then, I'm gonna be honest.
I'm still not ready for it.
Matt Edmundson: No, no, no. We've still got jobs to do. We've still got daughters to walk down the aisle. Man, we've uh, we've still things,
Al Marshall: we've got another life to live yet my brother.
Matt Edmundson: Way too much to go on. Way too many people to hug and too many people to help out, right? It's just, um, absolutely, absolutely.
It's funny cuz Paul talks about this, doesn't he? In the, in the Bible he says, and I love the King James version, he says, I am betwixed between two, a desire to go and a desire to stay, but nevertheless I'll stay cuz it's a bit more beneficial for you. And, um, I, I kind of like that, that, yes, I'm looking forward to going and yes, I'm looking forward to staying and there is this tension between the two.
But for now, I'm here. I've got a purpose and you know, there's, there's a plan. And I, and I think that's fascinating. So how much, Al right, how much do you think, uh, attitude determines outcome? So you wake up, you say to yourself, it's a great day because what's the alternative? . Um, and you, there, there are, there are people who are generally optimistic, generally quite positive.
There are people who are quite negative, you know, the opposite sort of side of things, but how much for you, does attitude determine, um, outcome for that day?
Al Marshall: Oh, I think it has a, a profound effect, certainly from my own perspective. I mean, I can't speak for other people clearly cuz that would be rather conceited.
But I think if, certainly from my perspective to walk into the day, my, um, the fact that I can see the positive surely has an impact on my emotional health. Yeah. My um, and also, um, I have to be honest, I've got a very active Prayer life and I love prayer. Yeah. I love meditation. Um, and the two for me go hand in hand.
Um, I love silent reflective Prayer. Mm. And I always make a, a space for that in the, in the morning. Mm. Um, I can't start my day without my reflection, and, and I can't finish my day without my reflection. Um, and, and I also, you know, like to create space for silence, even though I know saying people find that rather surprising.
Matt Edmundson: You make up for it in the other times. Right.
Al Marshall: But I would want to be silent . But I do think that there's, that we live in such a busy society and a busy world where you are in conversation or in demand for 24, 24 hours a day if required. If you want to be, you're available. There's a small screen, there's a big screen, you know? Um, and I think it's very difficult to actually create and carve out a space within our modern society for contemplation and for reflection.
Yeah. But I think those things, certainly from my perspective for who I am, I require contemplation and reflection and silence and, and Prayer and I, one of the things, one of the side effects, and I do believe it's a, it's a side of, of sitting silently, is, um, I'm able to, um, think and pray for others. And I start morning by praying for my wife and my children.
Um, By name and focusing on what they've got to do that day. And then I create a space and, and I, I pray for, uh, whoever God puts on my heart. And that will be invariably some men, uh, some friends or brothers, people that, that I know and that are going maybe through a challenging time or who knows what they're going through.
Um, and I feel that there is a, a real, a sense of, um, companionship within that Prayer within, within the overall Prayer life of, um, of the church, of, of, of the Christian people, of Christian people. Um, particularly to pray, certainly from my perspective, to pray for, to, for men who I know are struggling or, yeah.
Uh, Or, or maybe just for whatever reason that God puts him on my heart.
Matt Edmundson: No, that's great. So what would your, um, I think, I mean you've maybe told us already, but what would your, uh, one message be, you know, it's the, the, the overriding thing that God's put on your heart, the sort of the reason you are here, the thing that he's taught you the most.
What would that be?
Al Marshall: Well, I think that's a really, really interesting question. I think from my perspective, um, one thing that I know, um, is I've spent a long time working on the physical heart as part of a team who, um, are, have been able to, um, fix the ones that we are able to fix. Mm-hmm. And certainly in this next season of my life, I know I'm moving into a new season where, My hope is to be able to look after emotional hearts.
Yeah. Um, and as a side effect of that, to be able to look after the spiritual heart, there was an incredible, um, woman who lived a long, long time ago, a woman called Julian of Knowledge. And I wrote this down, um, um, because I know that you mentioned that, that you were gonna ask me what my take on would be.
And she said, you said, and then she said this in the 1300s and she was quite ahead of the curve. I'm gonna be honest. She said, all shall be well, all shall be well. There is a force of love moving through the universe that holds us fast and will never let us go. And I think my take on message is that there is a force in the universe that is holding us fast.
And if you don't know that sense of presence, if you don't, if you don't feel held, you need to speak up. Particularly men need to speak up. They need to find, um, help with their spiritual heart because that impacts their emotional heart. Mm. Which in turn impacts their physical heart. So my take on would be don't be heartsick Mm.
Emotionally or spiritually. Um, talk, find somebody to work with and, and just, um, know that you're not alone.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Very good. Very good. I was thinking as you were talking then. All is well. All is well. I had that song in my head going, uh, I can't remember who did it. It's a recent one, isn't it? Uh, it is. Well, based on the Psalms, it is well within my soul.
Uh, and and there's something about the ability to stand in front of the mirror and look at yourself and go, it is well within my soul. Yes. And you are kind of like, there's, there's a lot of blessings I have in life, right? Uh, you have a lot of blessings. I have a lot of blessings. And you look at your life and you go, but the fact that I can say that it is well within my soul, God, I am so grateful, uh, that I can say those words.
It is well, uh, and I appreciate not everybody can. And so, um, if, if you, uh, are struggling, if, if that is, uh, something that you do struggle with, do get in touch with us or get in touch with Al. We'd love to connect with you. You know, we're part of Crowd Church. Uh, we're all on a journey, uh, and we, we're just a church that believes that Jesus heals are brokenhearted.
Uh, and, um, and he does that in, in quite some style on occasions, uh, , uh, which is, which is, uh, which is sort of his mo really. Sometimes it's a long, uh, long work. Uh, sometimes it's a short, instant thing. We don't know, but we do know that Jesus does heal the broken hearted. So if that resonates with you, do let us know do get in touch.
Al here's my, uh, my last question, if I can, um, imagine right, for the sake of it, you stood there at the Oscars, whatever the cardiothoracic equivalent is of the Oscars. You've won your award, this lifetime achievement award, and you get a minute to thank all of those folks that have sort of had a big impact on your life.
You know, like your family, your mentors, authors, podcasters, so on and so forth. Who do you thank? Who are you grateful for and why?
Al Marshall: Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. The, the, I'm gonna be honest, the list is potentially endless.
Matt Edmundson: So I knew you were gonna say that. I was in two minds to ask this question.
Al Marshall: So yeah, you gotta be careful when you ask me something.
Matt Edmundson: Just pick the top three. Just pick the top three before we go the commercial breaks.
Al Marshall: There's a, there's a gentleman who, uh, who we know very well, Michael John Birch. Uh, John, uh, stood in the gap for me, um, quite a few years ago now, um, when I was spinning and outta control emotionally, and he said very little in the way of advice, but was just able to listen. Yeah. Um, so John would be, um, definitely one that I would think, um, excluding my dad and my granddad obviously, um, because that would be, yeah, that would be an easy thank.
Mm-hmm. Um, there was a gentleman who very early on in my, uh, um, career, uh, is my surgical mentor and is still, I think one of the most inspiring man that I've ever had the honor to know. A gentleman called Mr. Brian Fabry. And he, um, mentored me and taught me and, um, tolerated me and encouraged me, and I was, uh, I was very blessed.
I did, I was fortunate to receive all the time award, funny enough, um, uh, um, and, and he traveled, uh, with, um, my wife and his wife to present Oh wow, me with that award. Mm-hmm. And to be honest, the word itself was, uh, just an object. But the thing that really impacted me was the fact that, um, he stood and, uh, he, he was able to, uh, share that moment and I was able to, to have that moment with him.
So, yeah, definitely, uh, Mr. Brian Fabry. A third person.
Matt Edmundson: There doesn't have to be a third, but, you know, you crack on.
Al Marshall: Well, well actually I've got a story for you. It's my uncle Jack who wasn't really my uncle Jack. Um, he was my granddad's, one of my granddad's greatest friends.
Matt Edmundson: It's funny how we have these guys in our lives who we call uncle, but they aren't, they aren't actually uncle, but they just sort of act like uncles in our lives. Right. It's a, it's a really peculiar thing. It's amazing. Really. Yeah.
Al Marshall: Yeah. It is amazing. It is amazing. And Jack gave me a phone call, um, uh, and, and it was quite odd because I was in my mum's house and I didn't live in my mum's house and the phone went, and it was him, and I answered the phone and, uh, he said to me, I, I said, hello, how are you?
And he said, I'm fine. He said, um, He, I said, I'll just get my mum thinking he'd rung up to speak to my mum. And he said, no, I wanna talk to you. Very godly man, not me, Jack, and um, and he said, I wanna talk to you. And, and I Oh, okay. He said, he said, I have to be honest now. He said, I haven't seen you around. He said, so I'm just wondering if you'd like to come around for a cup of tea.
Now, the way he said it wasn't an invitation.
Matt Edmundson: There was, it was an instruction. Yeah. Yeah.
Al Marshall: It was an instruction. Mm-hmm. it was an instruction. So this man had been, as I say, my grandfather's friend for many, many years. And, and to his own admission really missed my grand dad. So I went round, I was, I played the dutiful grandson.
Mm-hmm.. And I went round, I went round to see Jack and he said, he said, I took a few questions for you. He said, I just wanna know how you're going on with God. Mm-hmm.. So that I was, I was, I felt far away. I tried to, to, you know, give the stats, answer if you like. Um, and it wasn't washing at all. It just was not washing
Matt Edmundson: You're not getting through that easy, bud no.
Al Marshall: So there I am this grown man, you know, with a professional life and, and he was like, he made me feel like a little guy, you know, a little bit. And he said to me, the reason, he said, the reason I'm asking it, he said, he said, because, you know, he said, maybe not at the, maybe not soon, but you know, I know when I die I'm gonna see your granddad and your granddad's gonna ask me how was Al, how, how was Allistair?
And he said, I just need to be able to tell him, how's Allistair. Wow. How are you going on with God?
And I had nowhere to go. I had nowhere to go.
Matt Edmundson: I'd be a blubbering wreck at this point, just like goodness me.
Al Marshall: Was. It was, it was. The tears were flowing. The tears were flowing. And we had a, we had, as I say, we had a cup of tea and we, we had a catch up and uh, and I left the house and that was the last time I saw him.
Oh, wow. He died. Wow.
Matt Edmundson: What a legend that man is.
Al Marshall: So, so, um, so I'm hoping, I am hoping he gave reasonably good reports to my grandfather.
Matt Edmundson: As you walk through the pearly gates and see your grandfather for the first time, he gives you a clip around the ear that's from your Uncle Jack.
Brilliant, brilliant.
Al Marshall: But I think I, I think when it comes to, I think when it comes to significant men in my life that, you know, I could wax lyrical you know, we know many men together, um, from a, from a church perspective, you know. Yeah. Um, Dave Connolly, you know, there are many, many guys who, who have been significant, um, in our lives and, and you know, we could, we could both go on and that, I suppose that's really what my heart is to encourage.
um, guys to, uh, to get alongside guys, really, you know, and, and don't be alone. Don't be, don't be a stranger. Mm-hmm. you know, we're in church every Sunday. You know, the, our details are gonna be on the, on this technological whiz. Um, please don't hesitate to reach out. Yeah. You know, not alone. We love you.
Matt Edmundson: No, that's very good. It's very well said.
Al Marshall: And if you get close enough, we'll give you the hug.
Matt Edmundson: Absolutely. Yeah. Come on down. It'd be great to meet folks. It's, um, and you're right. I mean, that's the whole point of this, this conversation, isn't it? We sit here because we sit under the shadow, uh, of some remarkable men who have lifted us up at various times in our lives.
And so we need to do that for other men, uh, and pass the baton on. And it's a remarkable thing Al. Listen buddy, uh, it's been a phenomenal conversation as I expected it to be. I appreciate you coming on. If people wanna reach out to you, what's the best way to do that?
Al Marshall: Well, um, I'm more than happy to, to, uh, be contacted through social media. Mm-hmm. and, and you know, I'm on Facebook, not very often. On Instagram, a little bit more, but I do check periodically and I'm desperately. I'm having, I have a love hate relationship with social media. Yeah. I think we all do. Yeah. It has some very, very useful things. Yeah. Such as this type of thing. Yeah. Um, uh, but also it can be quite, so yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm happy for you to, uh, um, put my details up.
Um, so yeah, feel free to get in touch guys.
Matt Edmundson: We will of course do that. We will link to Al's social media, his Instagram, uh, in the show notes, which you can get along uh, with the notes and the transcript for free at the website, www.crowd.church. Or you can even go to whatsthestorypodcast.com and it will take you to the same place.
Of course, if you have signed up for the newsletter, uh, for the email, uh, this will come directly to you anyway. It will be in your inbox, uh, as this podcast comes out. So if you haven't signed up already, do so. It just wings its way to you. So there you have it. What a phenomenal conversation with my beautiful friend, uh, Al Marshall. Al, thanks again for joining me, buddy. You're an absolute legend. Loved it. You're a legend.
So remember to check out Crowd Online church at www.crowd.church. Uh, even if you might not see the point of church, just give it a go. Find out a little bit more about this Jesus, as we are all on a quest to discover how he helps us live a more meaningful life.
We are at crowd a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow. And you are welcome at Crowd Church. It'll be great to see. Be sure to subscribe to what's the story wherever you get your podcast from, uh, because we've got some more great guests lined up.
Uh, and I don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one has told you yet today, uh, you are awesome. Yes you are. It's just a burden you have to bear. Al has to bear it. I have to bear it. You know, the Bible tells us that we are fearfully and wonderfully made. That's an awesome thing, and it is well within my soul.
Such an amazing thing. Uh, what's the story is produced by Crowd Online Church. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, George McCague, Josh Catchpole, Estella Robin and Tim Johnson. Our theme song is written by Josh Edmundson, and if you would like to read the transcript and show notes, as I said, head over to the website.
Uh, whatsthestorypodcast.com or www.crowd.church. Either's fine. Uh, where you can also sign up for our weekly newsletter and get all of this good stuff direct your inbox totally for free. That is it from me. That's it from Al. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you are.
I'll see you next time. Bye for now.