#34 Gods Radical Truth About Your Body (Becoming Whole Series)

6 Jul

YouTube Video of the Church Service

God's Radical Truth About Your Body: Why Your Physical Self Matters More Than You Think

Ever catch yourself thinking your body is just a temporary shell you're stuck with until heaven? Or maybe you're on the other end of the spectrum, spending hours at the gym trying to achieve that perfect beach body?

Both extremes miss something profound about how God sees our bodies.

This week, Matt Edmundson shared something that challenges our thinking on this topic. He talked about how his kids once patted his stomach to make it wobble and asked about his "baggy belly" - and how that sent him straight to the gym the next day. But more importantly, he unpacked why caring for our bodies isn't unspiritual, and why neglecting them isn't holy.

The Great Body Deception We've All Bought Into

We live in a culture that's utterly confused about bodies. On one hand, we're told our bodies are everything - hence the endless pressure to look younger, fitter, more Instagram-worthy. On the other hand, we're told our bodies don't really matter - that the "real you" is just your mind, your feelings, your consciousness.

A BBC documentary where someone struggling with gender identity described their body as just a "meat skeleton" they'd been born in. Now, there's real pain behind those words, and that suffering is genuine. But is separating ourselves from our bodies really the answer?

This isn't just a modern problem either. The ancient Greeks largely viewed the body as a prison for the soul. Many Eastern religions share similar themes. Even in church, we can pick up this idea that caring about physical health is somehow less spiritual than prayer and Bible study.

This body-soul split isn't biblical. It's not how God intended us to be.

You're Not a Soul Stuck in a Body

When God created humans, Genesis 2:7 tells us He "formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

Notice what God didn't do? He didn't create a soul and then stuff it into a body like putting a letter in an envelope. He didn't speak humans into existence from a distance like He did with the stars. Instead, the Creator of the universe got His hands dirty, forming and shaping the human body with the intimate care of a master artist. Then He breathed His own breath - His life - into this physical form.

The result? Dust became a living soul. Not a soul trapped in dust, but dust animated by God's Spirit in a unified living being.

Genesis 1:31 says God looked at everything He made, including these physical, dusty, bodily humans, and declared it "very good." It's not just acceptable. Not just functional. Very good.

Your Body Bears God's Image (Yes, Really)

Genesis 1:27 tells us God created mankind in His own image. Your body - with all its quirks, limitations, and peculiarities - bears the image of God. Not just your soul. Not just your mind. Your whole integrated body-self.

Matt shared about his missing finger section (from an accident 20 years ago) and how it still feels constrained every single day, like wearing a glove that's too tight. He gets that our bodies can feel broken, that something can feel deeply wrong. But that doesn't mean our bodies are mistakes or meaningless meat skeletons.

God's design is you - the beautiful, amazing, sanctified whole spirit, soul, and body you, altogether created in His image and likeness.

The Temple You're Walking Around In

Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 6:19-20: "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honour God with your bodies."

Think about what a temple was in Paul's day - a place of divine presence, carefully maintained and beautiful, treated with reverence and respect. It was where heaven and earth intersected, the centre of worship and community life.

That's what Paul's saying about your body. It's not just a shell. It's a sacred space where the living God dwells. Your body is where heaven and earth intersect, where worship and life are carried out. The Holy Spirit himself has made His home there.

God Took On a Body

If you still have doubts about God's view of the body, the incarnation settles the matter once and for all. John's Gospel tells us "the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

Think about the scandal of this in our dualistic world. The eternal, infinite, all-powerful God took on human form. And it wasn't temporary, like trying on a costume. The Son of God permanently united divine nature and human nature, body included.

As Nancy Pearcey puts it: "The incarnation is the ultimate affirmation of the dignity of the human body."

God didn't save us by helping us escape our bodies. He saved us by taking on a body himself.

Jesus healed both physical and spiritual ailments. He felt hunger, thirst, and exhaustion. He wept real tears. And in one of our favourite Bible stories, after His resurrection, in His glorified body, He cooked breakfast on the beach for His disciples.

What This Changes About Everything

When we stray from God's intent and separate body from person, we head down a dangerous path. If your body isn't the real you, then:

Human dignity becomes conditional on abilities rather than inherent in our nature
Sex becomes just physical recreation with no personal meaning
We develop troubling theories about personhood and what it means for the vulnerable

Your body isn't incidental to who you are. It's an essential part of your identity as someone created and loved by God.

Three Ways to Start Living This Truth

1. Repent of Wrong Thinking

Have you bought into cultural lies about your body? Have you worshipped it or despised it? Have you treated it as a meaningless matter or even as your personal property? Time to change that thinking.

2. Receive God's Love for Your Body

God doesn't love some future-perfected version of you. He loves you now, in your current body, with all its struggles and limitations. You are fearfully and wonderfully made - not because your body is perfect, but because God crafted it with purpose and meaning.

3. Respond with Stewardship

Try this simple exercise every morning: place your hand on your chest and pray, "Lord, thank you for this temple. How can I honour you with my body today?"

Perhaps it means finally scheduling that doctor's appointment you've been putting off. Perhaps it's about choosing rest over endless productivity. Perhaps it's about eating food that nourishes rather than just satisfying. Or maybe it's simply thanking God for what your body enables you to do.

The Bottom Line

Culture says your body is either everything or nothing. But God says something much more interesting: it is His.

Your body isn't a mistake. It isn't meaningless. It isn't separated from your spiritual life. Your body is God's radical design - a temple where He dwells, an instrument of worship, a very good gift to be stewarded for His glory.

And that changes everything.

Gods Radical Truth About Your Body (Becoming Whole Series)
[00:00:00]
Welcome
Anna Kettle: Good evening and welcome to Crowd Church. It's great to see you. And I'm joined tonight by Will.
Will Sopwith: Hi Anna. Very good to see you. Very good to be here with you and, uh, to see you all, uh, watching this on recording or live. Uh, most welcome to Crowd this evening.
Anna Kettle: Yeah. How's your day been? Will, yeah, it's been all right.
Will Sopwith: It's been all right. Um, I'm blessed with, with having three. Almost grown up children and, uh, son was back from university this week. So, uh, yeah, lots of family time this week. It's been excellent. What about you? Oh,
Anna Kettle: that's good. I've had a very nice day, kind of, um, my son and uh, husband went off to decent Tokyo.
Kwando. So, um, they've been at a competition today, so I actually had the day to myself, which was very restful. And uh, I've been watching Wimbledon and doing a few jobs around the house. It's been nice. So, yeah. Good Sunday. I hope you guys have had a great Sunday, whatever you are doing at home as well. Um, tell us a little bit about what we're doing [00:01:00] tonight then Will, what's happening?
So
Will Sopwith: well? Um, yeah, TaeKwonDo good, good link in. And Wimbledon too. Uh, we are talking tonight about, uh, the body. And what the Bible says about the body, uh, what a Christian view of body is. And you may immediately think if you've been watching the tennis, you look at these incredible specimens of sporting prowess and you, you might have seen interviews about just how difficult it is to maintain that kind of physical strength to.
To, to play a tennis match or the ice bars, the famous ice bars for, um, that Murray used to have. Andy Murray used to, used to take straight after match and all that. Um, or you may be thinking of, oh, summertime, maybe getting, heading to the beach. Um, thinking about sort of, uh, beach ready. Beach ready body. Um, so anyway, we are unpacking all that with a wonderful, uh, Matt, who's not here with us physically this evening, but he's, uh, we've got a recorded message from him.
So, um, yeah, lots and lots to talk about, lots of different angles to take. Uh, looking forward to it.
Anna Kettle: Yeah, it sounds awesome. Uh, and [00:02:00] I just love the. Idea that it's about more than just kind of our physical bodies. It's about our bodies and like how that the body connects to the spiritual and all of that.
And I think Matt's gonna unpack more of that for us in a second. So I think we'll, um, roll his video, uh, his. Talk that you recorded for us earlier and then we'll come back afterwards, do Conversation Street and Will and I will be discussing what he's talked about and unpack it a bit more. So please do post your questions and comments as it's rolling and we'll try and pick those up afterwards.
We'll see back shortly.
Talk: Gods Radical Truth About Your Body with Matt Edmundson
Matt Edmundson: Well, good evening Crowd. Church. It is great to be with you, uh, even if it's by this recording mechanism. And I can't be with you live tonight, unfortunately. Uh, but you are all in my thoughts. You are all in my prayers. I. [00:03:00] Uh, and it's, it's great that we can do this, that technology somehow makes this doable.
Uh, but today we're kicking off the body health section of our becoming whole series. So to give you some context, if you are new with us, let me just say a very warm welcome to you. Uh, we have spent quite a while looking at the topic of wholeness. What does it mean? To be whole. That's been our sort of big question, really, and we've been looking at that in various sectors, and we cannot discuss this concept or this idea of wholeness without considering the body.
Which you'll be pleased to know is more than just about going to the gym. We're not gonna spend the next few weeks talking just about that, which is very good news because if you're like me, you will have had a very complicated relationship with the gym over the years. Uh, I never really liked the gym. I tried it a few times, but I was never that motivated to go until one [00:04:00] day.
That fateful day when my younger children came up to me and patted me on the side of my stomach, uh, to make it wobble, and they asked me how my baggy belly was doing. Lemme tell you, I was in the gym the next day and I've not really left since baggy belly. I mean, that was enough to motivate me. Uh, now.
The downside to that was though, somewhere in my journey, in my spiritual journey, I dunno where, I dunno how I'd kind of picked up this idea that caring about my physical health was somehow less spiritual than Prayer and Bible study. You know, like God was up there saying, well, Matt's working on his biceps again instead of his Bible knowledge.
But neither are very big, right? So, uh, I would do that thing in the gym. Where I would listen to sermons whilst working out or maybe worship music to sort of mitigate the weirdness that I was feeling, this sort of tension that I was [00:05:00] feeling about my body and the spiritual aspect of my life. But you see, it's not just in the church that we have this tension, uh, in our thinking.
There's something called the Great Body deception. And actually it's quite common in our culture as a whole. So let's work through an example. Um, let's assume that you are a secular thinker. Now, you might be watching this, which is great. You're very welcome here. Love having you here. By all means, jump in the comments, uh, with your thoughts on all of this.
But if you, if you assume that you are a secular thinker and you believe that only the physical world exists. Then you could reach this sort of logical conclusion, which would say that you have a really high view of the human body, right? Because the body is the only thing that's real. It's the only thing that's physical.
But the irony is that's not how people think. It's not the secular point of view. And really, I can [00:06:00] see why, because if all we are is just these sort of complex biomechanical machines produced by. A random purposeless sort of evolution. Purposeless. Purposeless, that's a better word, evolution. Then our bodies really, they have no inherent meaning or worth or value, right?
So to deal with this paradox, uh, we seem to have created a dualistic two-state person. Which basically means there's a clear division between the physical body and the so-called real person. And the real person is often identified with our minds, our feelings, our consciousness, right? Of course, if you head down this road, the inevitable happens not all the time, but it does happen, and that there is this.
This sort of war that can take place between the real person and the body. It's like sometimes they become enemies with each other, [00:07:00] which will explain why in a recent, uh, well, maybe not a reason actually, but it'll explain why in A BBC documentary, uh, when I was seeing, uh, an interview, someone struggling with gender identity described it as not mattering what meet skeleton you've been born in.
It's an interesting phrase, isn't it? Meets skeleton. It doesn't matter what meets skeleton you've been born in. Now, full disclosure, I, I totally understand that there are pain behind those words, right? And that feeling trapped or at odds with your own body is both genuine and real suffering. And I'm not here to belittle that, but I do want to question whether separating ourselves from our bodies is the real answer.
And this isn't just a modern issue either. When you look at history, um, humans have struggled for thousands of years to sort of understand the relationship between the body and the soul. So the, the ancient [00:08:00] Greeks say around the time of Christ largely viewed the body as a prison. For the soul. Now I appreciate for, for your historians and philosophers.
I, I'm painting with very broad strokes. Um, and I think it's, it's more complex than that. So Plato didn't sort of have the definitive view. His views were more nuanced than just sort of body bad and soul good. Right. But we can say that the dominant cultural message that filtered down often portrayed physical existence as something you wanted to transcend.
And many Eastern religions share similar themes, right? So is that, and is that right? Is the body really just a meat skeleton? Is it just a prison for our souls? Is it something that we want to transcend? Is it really body bad? So good? I. Or does God have something different to say about this whole topic?
Which of course, you know, the spoiler alert, I think he does. Uh, so to answer that [00:09:00] question, uh, I wanna go right back to the beginning. So Genesis two seven tells us that the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
So this is a well-known Bible verse, right? But notice what God didn't do here. He didn't create like a soul and then stuff it into a body, like, you know, like putting a letter into an envelope where it is very old fashioned. That isn't it? It's like shoving a sleeping bag into the, you know, the sack that it came with.
Um, it, that's not, that's not what God did. Um, he didn't speak humans into existence from like a, a far off distance like he did with the stars and the planets. Now, instead, we get this sort of imagery that the creator of the universe got his hands dirty, that he sort of, he was on his knees almost forming and shaping and crafting [00:10:00] the human body with the sort of the intimate care of a master artist.
And then. Then he breathes his own breath into this physical form, and the Hebrew word is nemar. And in Greek it is Zoe. It's not just oxygen, it's this sort of life giving breath of God himself. It's sort of. It is life. And in that moment, dust became a living soul. Wasn't a soul trapped in dust like a prison, but dust animated by God's spirit in a unified living being.
Now, Genesis, uh, 1 31 says, um, that God looked at everything that he made right. Including these physical and [00:11:00] dusty. Bodily humans and he declared it very good. Not just acceptable, not just functional, but very good. And I want you to think about that, right? The God who transcends all physical limitations, known to man, then declares physical bodies to be very.
Good. It's quite an extraordinary statement, and it gets better because in Genesis, uh, 1 27, the Bible tells us that God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God, he created them, male and female, he created them. So your body with all its quirks, all its limitations and peculiarities, bears the image of God, not just your soul, not just your mind, but your whole integrated body self, right?
Our bodies aren't [00:12:00] separated from our divine image bearing self. There are integral part of our image bearing self, and that even in today's culture is still a pretty radical thing to say. I. Now I get, um, that you can feel out of place in your body, like I said, but I, I don't think that is God's design.
Now you'll notice, for example, on my, if I put my hand up to the camera. There you go. Uh, you'll notice that my right index finger, uh, is missing a section of it. I'll spare you the gory details. Uh, but about 20 years ago I had an accident that meant I ended up losing part of my finger. And you know what? I have learned to live with it.
I mean, it was down to my own stupidity that it happened, but I've learned to live with it. But you, I notice this finger every single day and I can tell you that it feels different to my other fingers, my other fingers. They all feel fine. Like, you know, normal fingers feel you don't think about it. It just feel normal.[00:13:00]
But this one, well, this one doesn't. And the only way I know how to describe how it feels is if you imagine putting on. A pair of gloves. Right. Um, and you put your hands into the glove, but the, the gloves are too tight and they are too small, and you feel constrained and you just wanna stretch out and push out of it.
Right. Well, that's how my finger feels every single day. Like it's constrained, like it wants to push out of it. Even 20 years later, it still feels like this. Now I'm not sharing this because I'm trying to compare my very minor injury to anyone else's deeper struggles, but because it gives me, I think, a tiny glimpse into what some of you may feel like, like you just want to break free, I.
From some kind of constraint because something simply does not feel right, like there's a pressure and there's [00:14:00] something squeezing you and constraining you and stopping you from feeling how you want to feel. I. And I get it, but I don't think the answer is dualism to create this body person split, like somehow separating the two things.
Help me explain my existence. Now, I can't blame my finger for how it feels. The reality is my finger is simply not whole. It's broken. Something is missing, and wholeness is about nothing missing, nothing broken, right? And I get that our bodies can feel like meek skeletons. They can feel broken. But I do not for one minute think that is God's design.
I think God's design is you the beautiful, amazing, sanctified whole spirit, soul, and body you altogether created in his image and his likeness. You. The New Testament, [00:15:00] uh, puts it like this. It says, do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit? Who is in you, whom you have received from God?
You are not your own. You are bought with a price, therefore, honor God with your bodies. This is a really interesting metaphor. From Paul, your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. It's a fascinating idea. So the Apostle Paul was writing to Christians, right in a town called Corinth. Um, and they had been heavily influenced by this Greek philosophy of, and this sort of idea of dualism, you know, the body being a prison for the soul.
And so they thought the body was inferior to the spirit. Which led them to have all kinds of ideas about sex, which is what Paul was writing to them about. Because after all, sex is just a physical act, right? And if it's just a physical act, then it's a body thing and it's [00:16:00] inferior to the spiritual, which is nothing to do with the real me.
Paul's response to this thinking, and if you know Paul at all, you'll fully appreciate when I say his response was both Kurt and radical. It really was. In essence, Paul is saying, your body isn't just a shell, it's a temple. A temple is a sacred space where the living God dwells, and that actually really, really matters.
So what you do then sexually. Has a huge impact on you. And Paul went on to talk about this. He talked about how the mystery of two become one flesh, right? Which is something you hear often used in wedding vows today. A marriage is a sort of a covenantal joining of two people, and that has enormous implications on us for the rest of our lives.
And you know what? It's done with our words that covenant is made with our words, but it's also done with our bodies. [00:17:00] So your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit's. A really powerful metaphor, like I say. But what is a temple, right? When Paul wrote this, we think back to the time the temple was a place of divine presence that was sort of carefully maintained and beautiful.
It was treated with reverence, and it was treated with respect because it was a place where heaven and earth intersected and it was the center of worship and community life. That's pretty, it's pretty insane, isn't it? And that's what Paul's saying about our bodies, right? That they are places of divine presence.
They are beautiful and should be well maintained, treated with reverence and respect because it's where heaven and earth intersect, where worship and life are carried out. It is where the Holy Spirit himself dwells and makes his home. [00:18:00] This is great stuff. I love this. I'm preaching myself happy most of the time.
Uh, and let me tell you, if you have any doubts about this, any doubts about God's views of body, then for me, the incarnation settles it once I. For all. Uh, the gospel of John tells us that the word became flesh and made his dwelling amongst us, right? The word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. I want you to think about the sheer unadulterated scandal of this statement in our dualistic world, where the body person split is in full effect.
Not just now, but then as well the eternal, infinite, all powerful God took on a human form. You would not do this, but he did. And it wasn't temporary like 'cause he was just trying on some kind [00:19:00] of Batman costume for a party. The son of God has permanently united, divine nature and human nature, body included.
Nancy Pearcy puts it this way about the incarnation. Um, she said that the incarnation is the ultimate affirmation of the dignity of the human body. I. That's a powerful statement. God didn't save us by helping us escape our bodies. He saved us by taking on a body himself. Lemme say that again, right? God didn't save us by helping us escape or transcend these human bodies.
He saved us by taking on the human body himself. He healed physical anal ailments, not just spiritual ones, but he felt hunger and thirst and exhaustion. He wept real tears. He even one of my favorite stories in the Bible, after his resurrection, [00:20:00] he cooks breakfast. On the beach, right in his glorified body, he's cooking fish on the beach for his disciples, as I would love to have tasted that fish.
This isn't a God who is embarrassed by physicality or doesn't seem eager to transcend it to me. This is a God actually who embraces the body, who glorifies the body. God embraced an embodied existence, uh, existence. Jesus didn't just save souls. He healed bodies. He fed bodies, he touched bodies, and ultimately he gave his own body on the cross.
His life demonstrates more than anything that God cares about our whole person, not just the so-called spiritual aspects. And here's the clincher, right? If you're still not bought into this, uh, the deal that seal the, the thing that seals the deal, let me put it that way. The thing that seals the deal for me is simply this.
[00:21:00] When Jesus rose from the dead, his body did to. It's the whole shroud of Turing thing, right? Jesus wasn't raised from the dead as a ghost, um, not as a sort of a disembodied spree. Now, it wasn't like Casper, the friendly ghost floating around. The Ghostbusters weren't after him, but he raised from the dead with a physical.
Glorified body that could be touched and that could still eat fish on the beach and that still bore the scars of his crucifixion. The resurrection is God's final verdict on the value of human bodies. There's no doubt. For God, they are worth raising from the dead and glorifying. You know what? There's an, there's a truth.
You can't escape it. Right? That one day we will all face the reality of the ultimate sleep. Our bodies will shut down and we will walk through to the other [00:22:00] side. We like Christ, don't float around like some kind of ghost. The ghostbuster aren't coming for us either, right? Uh, the Bible tells us that, uh, Jesus will take our weak mortal bodies and change them into glorious bodies like his own, using the same power with which he will bring everything under his control.
That really just excites me. I just think that's fantastic. Ultimately, we get this glorified body as Christ did. A body raised in power and in glory. A body that will possess capabilities that the Matrix can't even think about, right? That will trans. Send, uh, ordinary human limitations yet remain tangible and real and identifiable.
Our body will be perfected and glorified and no longer subject to aging or deterioration, or death, or decay, or pain, or tears, or sorrow, or [00:23:00] sin or crying. In God's ultimate redemption, he redeems our bodies too, which is why I can say with unequivocal. Faith that at some point my finger will return if it happens while I'm here on earth.
I will tell you, if not my glorified body will have my glorified finger in full function. Let me tell you, I'm looking forward to that day. It's good stuff, isn't it? Right? Scripture constantly presents humans as a psychophysical unity, where body and soul are integrated. They're not separated. I. The Psalms expressed this right, uh, books written thousands of years ago.
The Psalmist wrote things like My soul Thirsts for You. My flesh yearns for you. My heart and my flesh cry out for the living God. Notice how spiritual longing is [00:24:00] expressed physically. Right? Oh, it's good stuff, right? That's why Paul, when writing to the church at Rome said this, he said, offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God.
This is your true and proper worship. So worship isn't just a spiritual activity that happens despite our bodies. True worship involves our bodies. We're not trying to escape some kind of physical existence to reach God. We're not transcending. We're offering our bodies a. In all its existence, in all its state as part of our worship now, when we move away from God's intent and separate body from person, when we go down this dualistic route, right?
When we say the real you is just your mind and your feelings, I think we head down a really, really dangerous path, and we see it in how our culture approaches everything. I think [00:25:00] from sexuality to end of life issues. Because if your body isn't the real you, then guess what? Human dignity becomes conditional on abilities rather than being inherent in our nature.
Sex. Well, that becomes just a physical sort of. Recreation with no personal meaning. It's just sex. After all. We develop all kinds of crazy theories about personhood and what that means for a baby in a womb. Elderly people who lose cognitive function are no longer persons worthy of protection. And in the last few weeks in this country, in the UK, parliament has passed both the assisted dying bill and agreed to decriminalize abortion.
And I know that these are deeply, deeply personal issues for many, and there's real pain on all sides of these debates, and I'm not here to condemn, but I [00:26:00] do believe that getting our theology of the body right is really gonna help us approach these conversations with both truth and compassion. I firmly believe that every human body bears God's image and deserves dignity.
Regardless of age or ability or appearance. Your body isn't incidental to who you are. It is an essential part of your identity as someone created and loved by God. So where does all of this leave us? Well, let me, let me bring it home. Let's take it into Conversation Street with these three practical responses.
Right. The first one, uh, I think we need to do is repent of wrong thinking. Let me ask you, have you bought into cultural lies about your body? Have you worshiped it or despised it? Have you treated it as meaningless matter? A meat skeleton or your [00:27:00] even your personal property, right? Which acknowledge that the Bible tells you, you, your body is a temple, uh, of the Holy Spirit.
It's been bought with a price, right? So repent of that wrong thinking. The second thing, uh, is to receive God's love for your body. I think this is a really important thing. Wouldn't you repent and you change it? It's just a fancy word for change your thinking. Just think differently. Think how God thinks and receive God's vision, God's love, God's plan and purpose for your body.
You see, he doesn't love some future perfected sort of version of you. He loves you now in your current body with all its struggles and limitations. The Bible tells us that you are fearfully and wonderfully made. It's a beautiful, beautiful passage in Psalms, but not because your body is perfect, but because God crafted it with purpose and with meaning.
Right? And the third thing [00:28:00] I think is, is, is, is needful, is we need to respond with stewardship. What do I mean by that? Well, this comes back to the fact it's no longer yours. If you're a Christian, it's been bought with a price. So try this really simple exercise every morning. It will change your life in so many ways, right?
To simply place your hand on your chest and pray a simple Prayer to say, Lord, thank you for this temple. How can I honor you with my body today? It's a powerful question. Just be open up to the answer because maybe it means finally scheduling that doctor's appointment that you've been avoiding. And the reason I'm laughing is I'm talking to me, right?
Maybe it's choosing rest instead of endless productivity. Maybe it's eating food that nourishes. Uh, and, you know, helps fuel your body rather than just pure sugar, which is not gonna do you any good whatsoever. Maybe it's using your physical strength to serve others, or maybe it's just simply [00:29:00] thanking God for what your body enables you to do in life and not taking it for granted.
Over the next few weeks, we are, we are gonna explore this idea more of the human body. We're gonna look into the specifics of healing. Those that get healed. What happens if you have a long-term sickness and don't get healed? We're gonna talk about that. Um, Jen's talking about that we are gonna look at exercise and sleep and nutrition, and I am really, really looking forward to it because I think it's such a powerful topic.
It's not something to get condemned by, but rather, I think it's one of those things as Christians, the word of God is here to set us free and just. When we get a hold of it, when we see it and understand it, when we recognize that my body isn't a mistake, it isn't meaningless, it isn't separated from my spiritual life, but in fact, my body is God's radical designer temple where he dwells an instrument of worship, a good, very good [00:30:00] gift to be stewarded by me for his glory.
Well, that changes everything. You see, culture says your body is either everything or nothing, but I think God says something really much more interesting. He just simply says it is his.
Conversation Street
Anna Kettle: Welcome back. Wow. What a great talk. There was like so much content in there, wasn't there?
Will Sopwith: Yeah. Fantastic. Not free for thought, Matt. What a, what? An amazing summary and a beautiful summary. Inspiring about what God speaks about our physical selves, as well as our spiritual, uh, yeah, really challenging. Um, and, and very inspiring.
Anna Kettle: Like, one of the things that really stuck out for me was that whole idea of, um. Just like not separating body from mind or body from spirit, but that we're whole people. I think that came across really clearly in that talk. You know, that idea that we can go either way too [00:31:00] far, can't we can make it all about our body and trying to have the perfect physical.
Specimen, like, you know, constantly in the gym trying to get beach body and all of that, um, that kind of cultural pressure to look perfect from the outside. And then equally, I think often as Christians, we can make it all about the spiritual person and like, oh, your body's just like a. It doesn't matter.
It's, it's just temporary. You know, one day we'll be body free anyway, so why look after it? And, but it, it strikes me that both of those extremes are wrong and not really the example Jesus gave.
Will Sopwith: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, and it's, I mean, it's fascinating though. That is so current. Actually, I hadn't really thought about that.
If you look at some of the. The letters written to the early church in the New Testament. Um, a lot of these are addressing this very thing. Um, I think g narcissism is, is the thing that these letters are where the church had sort of picked up on this kind of Greek philosophy of like, it's all about spirit bodies don't really matter.
And there's, there's some, there's some intriguing [00:32:00] lines in some of those letters. Like, um, some of you say, oh, Jesus is coming back. We don't need to work. And, and they're saying, no, no work. Feed, feed the body, look after your body, all, all these things. And that was coming from this, this kind of era. I hadn't really thought of it bang up to date, but those, those two examples actually, of those two bills in parliament this week or the last couple of weeks, um, that's, that's absolutely it.
The ramifications of separating out body from spirit, um, are still very, very much with us. And, and Matt talked quite a lot about, um. You know, not respecting our bodies. And it's all about the internal, but what, what, what about that alternative? What about that kind of the worship of the body as actually this is everything that there is, because I think that's actually very, very common as well.
Anna Kettle: Yeah. I think both of them, like they're. They're both unhealthy behaviors, aren't they? They've taken too far. Like I, I think as I get older, I'm really aware of it as a woman that on the one hand there's a lot of pressure to be [00:33:00] thin and to be beautiful, to be perfect, and that goes that. Pressure almost increases as you get older because then it becomes like stay looking young.
Like you might be 50 but you need to look like you're 30. You know, you might be 70, but look like you're 40. You know, it is that there's a lot of unrealistic body pressure, isn't there? And, and like that kind of, people spend a lot of money and they do some quite extreme things to try and reach those just impossible and realistic.
Like, you know, you can't stay young forever, can you? That's just not a physical possibility. Like maybe Elon Musk will find a way to do it one day, but he hasn't yet. So, you know, like where we are right now, like, you know, the, we have these impossible beauty standards and like body standards and nobody can meet them.
Even celebrities and people that spend a lot of time spending and spend a lot of money with professional hair, makeup, you know, they still. Or, you know, they're, they're still not good enough. They're still having plastic [00:34:00] surgery. They're still, you know, kind of doing all these different procedures, try and stay young and yeah, it just strikes me that it's like chasing something that's unattainable.
Will Sopwith: Mm-hmm. And it, it made me think as well that, that I read a fascinating article years ago now, and I, I can't remember what the. The name of this is, it might be familiar to some of you, but there's a whole kind of movement of people internationally that, that have so got into the depths of researching nutrition, that their aim is to live as long as possible by, by.
Really, really controlling what they eat. So, and, and the, the things I remember is like fried meat is completely out anything fried. In fact, in fact, things just, just kind of lukewarm, not boils to, so maximum nutrients, uh, maximum good. And, and the, the goal being we're gonna maintain this body for. 120, 130 years.
Um, and, and it was this journalist kind of visiting this, this, this kind of group. And, and, and reflecting on it and, and its kind of [00:35:00] takeaway was ironically, these are the people that spend most of the time with the doctor's surgery out of anyone they know, because they're always going back to check their cholesterol and always check, and, you know, their vital signs are absolutely perfect.
They're, they're kind of on track, but there's this sort of. Giving a whole life to maintaining something that, yeah, is really important, but is not the whole goal. So there's all sorts of reflections of that and um, yeah, and I love the way Matt brought those together and kind of the knitting together.
Which is a massive challenge, isn't it? Mm-hmm. I mean, how, how do you bring that kind of respect for the body and yet not worship it that, that Matt was talking about?
Anna Kettle: Yeah, it's a real balance, isn't it? It's like caring about your body and treating with the respect and dignity it deserves and treating other peoples the same, um, but not, as you say, worshiping it and putting it higher than it should be.
And I love that scripture that he shared about, you know, your body's. A temple of the Holy [00:36:00] Spirit. And for me, that's the crux of it, really. Like thinking about if my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and God lives inside of me, God's spirit lives inside of me. Then like what, like is that question Matt asked at the end?
Like, what am I doing today to honor God and to honor my body, which carries the presence, something of the presence of God through my day. Do you know what I mean?
Will Sopwith: Yeah. I, I don't often think of my body as a sacred space. No. To say that, that's, that is really challenging. But yeah, it's, it's a, it's a great picture.
And I wonder whether part of that as well is that, um, yeah, we're not these kind of disembodied spirits, you know, a, a temple is a kind of. It's somewhere to locate, you know, if you think about temple in terms of worshiping a deity, that there's a physical location where you go and reflect and, and worship.
And in a sense too, our, our bodies are a, a meaningful boundary of, of who we are, our, our thoughts and our intellect and, and our spirits. And, and it's, it's something that. [00:37:00] People can see and touch that there's a tangible sort of presence of us, um, which yeah, is another part of that picture. But yeah, it, it is a great picture and I think that challenge to, um, to treat it as a sacred space and a place where.
Actually we can meet God and I mean there's that wonderful quote, isn't there from Chariots Fire, I think it is, with, with Eric Little who says, and he's asked by a journalist like how, I dunno whether it's a real quote or not actually, but how do you feel when you run? And he says, I feel God's pleasure.
It's that sense of I'm using this body that God's given me and, and I feel God's pleasure when I'm using it for, for His glory. And he was of course, a famous Olympic runner in the twenties.
Anna Kettle: Mm-hmm. I, I wondered, um, if, just thinking about that whole theme of like, whole body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, but I think it can be a real process, can't it?
To learn that balance of like loving your body and treating it with dignity and respect and not kind of wishing it, wishing it for its own sake and just having that [00:38:00] healthy. View of the body. I think that can be a real process. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, for a lot of us as Christians, although I wondered if you'd got any examples Will of like Yeah.
How that's looked in your life.
Will Sopwith: I, I mean, and Matt scoped it out in his three questions at the end, which, which are about process, aren't they? And that first point and, and yeah, all of those ring true for me. Absolutely. But that, that first one of repenting of wrong thinking, um, and. Yeah, so I, I grew up really, not so much my body, but my physical look, my, my kind of face and stuff.
Really not liking that at all. Awkward teens, greasy hair, all the rest. Um, and actually developed a kind of real dislike and, uh. Haven't have a very good looking brother. Hi Tom, if you're watching. Um, and that didn't help 'cause he was the older brother and, and he got the attention. Um, and, and I was aware of that for, for years and years.
And, and what really struck me is, is, um, yeah, is God really challenged me [00:39:00] actually to repent. And, and, and it's that very line I think, um, it's the, the Psalm 139 that Matt mentioned about you are, you are fearfully and wonderfully made. And, and, and I suddenly realized that. The way I thought about the way I looked was a kind of slap in the face for God.
It's like God is saying, I have made you. I've made you well. I have made you fearfully and wonderfully. I love you. I don't make mistakes, but you are turning around and saying, this is rubbish. No, I don't like this. And so it was a real moment of repentance and actually that began to unlock some of that journey for me of like, I'm so sorry, I've thought.
This about your creation. Mm-hmm. Um, for, for so long. And, and it was a point of just having to say, God, I'm sorry that, that must be so offensive for me to be living in this kind of hatred of something that you have made.
Anna Kettle: Yeah, that's, that's a really good example and thanks for your honesty about that.
'cause I, I'm sure it's something that a lot of people relate to, like struggling with body image in, in [00:40:00] different ways. Um, like I, I reflect on it. I, I kind of think. Actually sometimes where I struggle with my body the most is when it doesn't do what I want it to do. So, um, age that Anna? Yeah, it is, it is partly age.
Um, you know, and I understand like people have lots, you know, Matt talked about his finger, didn't he? Mm-hmm. I, I understand like different people have all kinds of disabilities and issues with our bodies that, you know. Physical health problems. And you know, certainly for me, a time when I really struggled with, like I, growing up, I didn't really struggle with self-image particularly.
Um, but I, I really struggled with like my body in my thirties when. Um, we went through like a series of pregnancy losses and a whole season of infertility, and it was just that sense of like, why might my body do mm-hmm. What I want it to do? Why won't it do what it's designed to do, um, as a woman and like making peace with a body [00:41:00] that doesn't work the way it should in some respects.
And I think, you know, it's. That was the season of life for me. And you know, I understand other people have disabilities that they have to live with lifelong, and that's really hard. And I think learning to love and accept your body in all its imperfection and all, all the things that are broken and imperfect with it as well, that's, that can be a challenge.
And yet it still deserves dignity. Like, you know, your body still deserves that respect and that dignity, even when. It's not working the way it should be or you would like it to be. So yeah, just I hope that encourages anyone else who's sort of like, oh yeah, but I've got, you know, yeah. Example I angry with my body, or, you know, I'm frustrated by, you know, how it works or doesn't work.
Will Sopwith: And, and that, that was Matt's second point, isn't it? Having. Identified any wrong thinking and, and would really encourage you to just kind of think about some of the examples that, that Matt gave and go, [00:42:00] is there some wrong thinking about body? What did, how was that receiving God's love for your body?
Then I think you said, yeah, receiving God's love for your body. Was that something that you were aware of in, in that time? What, what did that process look like?
Anna Kettle: Uh, that's a good question. Yeah. I think it wa, I think it was just. Like just, yeah. Receiving God's love for me and that kind of acceptance of the fact that actually the things that don't work with our body, like anything in our life, you know, it's not, that's what I've been given for now.
Mm-hmm. It may not be perfect 'cause we don't live in a perfect world, but like. Even so like rather than focus on that thing that's not working, there's still many things about my body that does work. Yeah. And so that was a painful season in my life, I'm sure. But like [00:43:00] moving on from it and healing from it was about going well.
What else? God. You know, what else am I supposed to be doing with my life? Like Parent? This Parenthood journey hasn't looked quite how I wanted it to, and like my body hasn't worked the way I wanted it to there, but like there's 1,001 other ways that I can serve God in my life and with my body, you know, my body.
You know, it works well. I, you can, you know, I can walk, talk, I can do this. I'm communicating now. You know, like there's so many ways we can serve God with how he's made us. Um, even with all the limitations. And so I think it was coming to peace with that. Well, okay, it doesn't do this one thing that I wanted it to do, but there's still an abundance.
Of ways that work and I need to be grateful for and lean into those things as well.
Will Sopwith: Yeah, yeah. The word you used there was acceptance and that's absolutely central to that, isn't it? Yeah, it's absolutely central to, to receiving God's love is, is being able to accept, [00:44:00] uh, where we are as we are, but the function that we have at the age that we have.
Um, and I think that's, that, that can be the, the core of so much of the. What can become quite toxic marketing that you were alluding to earlier. Yeah. That, that, that, that sort of pursuit of, of something else that, that may is unattainable, but but cost an awful lot of money on the way. Um, and, and that really springs from an unacceptance, doesn't it?
An inability to accept how we are made. And, and I think for me, yeah, again, it was, it was that having repented, there was a sense of just accepting in God and that, and that's a. Well, that's relationship with God, isn't it? It it's being able to, it, it, it's a kind of a bit of a two-way conversation. You, you, you're kind of bringing something, you, you receiving something and you, you come to an, an acceptance and a, and a comfort with God of like, well, I don't understand, but okay, let's, let's walk this road of acceptance and, and that.
I think that, I think that unearths [00:45:00] things that you hadn't really thought of because you've been so Yeah. Focused maybe as you say on the, the, the bit that doesn't work, that you, you actually lose so many other things and, and I think that's, that's a very real. Experience for many people, they're so fixated by, it may be how they look.
It may be their body shape, it may be a, a limb functioning or, or not, it may be a dietary issue, um, that they lose actually the broad scope of, of what God has brought and, and, and seeing the beauty. And no matter how many times somebody tells us those other things, we just can't see it because we're. We are very focused on the bit that doesn't work.
And so acceptance is a huge word, loaded with potential, but also challenge, I think, in getting to that point.
Anna Kettle: Definitely. Definitely. And I, I feel like, um, that, that whole thing of acceptance as well, like part of it is that, um. Sometimes like [00:46:00] accepting our bodies as they are. Like, our bodies are important, right?
Because they're the very thing that we experience. God, like I, sometimes it's limitations, isn't it, in our lives. And sometimes there's the physical, like health problems. You know, I've, I've got a number of friends who live with chronic. Various chronic health conditions at the moment, um, which is really, really difficult day to day for them.
Mm. And yet that's the very thing that's drawing them closer to God. Mm. And teaching them something about walking in dependence on God in a deeper way sometimes. I think those things that are limitations that all say the things that we actually experience. More of God through as well. Mm-hmm. So like, you know, we don't, we don't experience God separate to our bodies, do we?
It's not just a purely like intellectual concept. Like, oh, I've read the Bible and I'm thinking about God and like my relationship with him is just here. It's here, but it's also in our physical bodies. [00:47:00] And I loved what Matt had to say about like, Jesus. Chose to come and live in a physical body to model that and to show that it's the whole person.
And it's not just about mental consent and kind of understanding who God is in your mind, but and your heart. Mm-hmm. But it's also out outworking that living. Mm-hmm. That out every day and that you can experience God in your physicality as well. Yeah. Um, and I love that. Yeah. It's, it's such an important thing and
Will Sopwith: what, what you're describing I is wholeness, isn't it?
It is where it stemming from that acceptance, but understanding other bits and, and exploring with God that the whole, that it, it is wholeness and, and there's something. There's something very beautiful and deeply attractive about somebody who is whole. And, and I remember even in my times as a young adult struggling, recognizing the difference between someone who's utterly at peace with how they [00:48:00] look and, and you kind of, you don't really notice the physical because they're so sort of whole, that the wholeness as in there's an integrity about who they are and, and, and their body, um, compared to those that are clearly.
Spending an awful lot of time trying to Yeah. Better a particular physical attribute. A and that there was just, I just remember there being a, a kind of a wholeness and a beauty to that person that, that had come to that point of acceptance and um, you know, whatever Yeah. Limitation there was in their body.
And I think that's the wholeness that God wants for us. I think he wants to invite us into that, uh, that place of being at peace. But also, yeah, I think there's a real beauty, um, in that whatever you look like, I mean, physical beauty is just so, it's fleeting, you know, the, someone uses parables about that as well.
It's like the flowers of the field are, are, are here today, gone tomorrow. Um, it's, it's a, it's a futile thing to be basing any opinion on really. I think.
Anna Kettle: Yeah. And, [00:49:00] uh, strikes me like even while Matt was speaking, um, before that, like. He talked about Jesus like being physically embodying human form and yet, like you can read in Isaiah 53 verse two, that you know, like there was nothing beautiful and majestic about Jesus in terms of his appearance.
Nothing that would particularly attract us to him. So, you know, like Jesus was obviously this attractive, unique. God filled human being that everyone was, like crowds would follow him around. Mm-hmm. They would go, you know, he would kind of walk, you know, go through cities, towns, preaching, teaching, and crowds would just gather and follow him and want to be around him.
Children. Mm-hmm. Adults like everyone wanted to get close to him, and there was something that was very attractive about his. Presence and just that, that fullness of God that he had in it. [00:50:00] Yeah. And yet it says clearly in the Bible that it wasn't like a, you know, he wasn't a rock star, he wasn't super cool or you know, the most beautiful hunky.
Yeah. You know, like there was nothing particular in his physical appearance. It wasn't a physicality thing, it was something deeper. Yeah. It was spiritual, but it, um. It was outworked in the whole person, wasn't it?
Will Sopwith: Yeah. A comment in the chat from, from Nicola, and thanks for this Nicholas. Well, it's very profound.
Um, as someone who has ms it's a huge issue to get outta bed, but I do, I also don't call it my ms. It's the ms. I don't take ownership of it. And yeah, I think that, that, that's a really good example of not not being defined by a particular aspect of our physical selves, um, but understanding actually the whole, and there's more than the particular, um.
And Yeah, and I think this is where identity gets so mixed up in our current culture. I'm always thinking, [00:51:00] why, why, why is that the sole identity? You know, that we are complex beings, there's so much to us, and yet when we begin to choose to be defined by a particular, uh, physical or even mental characteristic, we, we begin to lose some of that wholeness, uh, that, that I think God created us for.
So Matt also talked about, um, dignity a lot, which, which I thought was, was really good. And his final point was about responding with stewardship, which I think is linked to that idea of, of treating our bodies with dignity, but others with dignity as well. What, what did you, uh, what did you think about that point?
About stewardship?
Anna Kettle: Yeah, I really loved that. Um, it, for me it was. He, he linked it to like various bills and some of the stuff that's going through in politics and may didn't he around, um, palliative care pathways and, um, yeah. And even the abortion bill and I [00:52:00] think, you know, the Bible just has a very high view of life.
Mm-hmm. And of all human life and all human beings. And I think it, you can't talk about this object and not feel like. You want to stand up really for people who like maybe are seen as lesser or you know, have struggled to find their place because like society would say, well, you know, you are a lesser person.
Whether that's because of, um. I know a disability or a health condition or aging, like we don't treat the elderly as well as we should in our society often. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, there's. Obviously early life stuff, you know, but even when you think about racism, there's just so much in our culture that just has a low view of people and of [00:53:00] bodies.
Mm-hmm. And I feel like the Bible calls us to a very high view of that, um, that everyone matters. And that, for me personally, my responses that, you know, that affects how I vote, it affects how I, um. It affects a lot of my opinions on these issues and it's, it affects how I campaign and, you know, what I get involved in how I serve, um, in my local church.
Um, because I feel like it's important to get involved in these issues where you see injustice and people being treated, you know, as less than they should be.
Will Sopwith: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It, it just completely cuts my heart when, when you see a, a sort of people. Di a dismissive attitude on the, on the basis of anything kind of physical.
Um, and, you know, I mean, looks is an obvious one. Um, and [00:54:00] again, I, you know, I have young adults as, as children, and, and they're, they're grappling with this. And we were talking before about the, it, it's, it was an, the odd magazine before when we were, it's now it's in your pocket. It's, it's absolutely everywhere.
But, but that kind of dismissing on, on the basis that. Not treating with dignity is absolutely, I believe, completely counter to God's heart and, and it should make us angry. We should be getting really agitated about, and we should call it out as well, um, because it's, it's absolutely not what God has for us.
But I think Matt's challenge about stewardship was a really good one because, um, I think this is a really. A, a, a helpful way to navigate between these two extremes of kind of worship, of body and, and making ourselves perfect specimens of humanity and kind of hating those, those two, you know, and they are extremes and most of us are somewhere in the middle.
I. Um, but the stewardship and understanding and first of all, accepting what God give and saying, okay, what is my responsibility to look after this body [00:55:00] that God's giving God clearly values, bodies. I hope that's come through from Matt's talk and from our conversation. I think it was a, a brilliant exposition of that God values your physical body, so.
How then do we properly steward it? Um, and yeah, there's exercise, there's diet, there's other things. Um, and I wonder whether there are things that have cropped up in your minds about Yeah, maybe there's, there's ways I, I could be just giving a little bit more focus to my body and, and looking after it because, uh, it's a, yeah, it's something that God's made and it's worthy of it.
Anna Kettle: Yeah, I think that's probably a really good point to conclude on. Um, just to go away this week and have a think about it. You know, we're gonna be unpacking more about this subject over the next few weeks. So yeah, go away this, you know, this week and mull over it and have a think about is there anything you could do, steward.
What God's given you with your body. Well, um, yeah, I, I think, you know, [00:56:00] it's, it's a good question to, to, to take away and think about, isn't it?
Will Sopwith: Yeah. And, and a great series coming, if you've got, um, questions, um, interest in, in the body and that the place of physical health in, in a, in a spiritual walk. Um, whatever it is.
Um, we'll be unpacking this in in weeks to come. So, uh, please do, uh, come back, um, and subscribe, uh, to Crowd. Uh, you'll, you'll get an alert when, whenever the next session is. Um, I'm probably not doing all the technical bit properly, um, links on the screen, et cetera, but please do, um, stay in touch, um, and, and.
Thanks for, for questions, putting comments, and, and please do keep them coming. Uh, I think we've got a Google meet as usual straight after, uh, this talk, uh, that this, this, uh, Conversation Street. So if you wanna, uh, join the Google Meet and the, the link will be no. No, we're not doing a Google meet tonight.
Sorry, I'm getting wavings from the desk. No, Google meet tonight. Ignore that [00:57:00] awful support when Matt's not here, doesn't it? It's
Anna Kettle: because it's on Matt's computer and he's the only one in the details. Nevermind,
Will Sopwith: ignore that. But come back next week. It's fantastic series on the body and thank you Matt, for a really inspiring and challenging talk this evening.
And, uh, yep. Enjoy, uh, the week, wherever you are and uh, God bless you. Bye-bye.
Anna Kettle: See you soon, guys. Take [00:58:00] care.