Prayer That Changes Things - Acts 4:23-33

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• Pete’s talk focuses on the power of prayer in Acts 4:23-33, emphasizing the importance of a right understanding of God's sovereignty in our lives.

• The central point is that having a proper view of God's sovereignty leads to boldness and faithfulness in the face of challenges and persecution.

• The talk highlights the early church's reliance on prayer and their understanding of God's control over every aspect of life, inspiring them to take action for His kingdom.

• The message is one of courage and trust, encouraging us to lean on God's sovereignty as we navigate through life's challenges and to boldly share the gospel with others, knowing that He is in control.

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💬 CONVERSATION STREET --

Matt + Claire discuss:

• What did you think about Pete’s talk?

• How do you normally start your prayers? Do you start them thinking about the Sovereignty of God?

• Pete said in his talk that when the early church prayed for courage, they prayed for trouble. What are your thoughts on that?

• Pete drew a parallel between God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility in his talk. How do we avoid the extremes of either being too fatalistic or having too much control?

• If someone consistently behaves in a selfish or cruel way, they may come to believe that God is selfish or cruel rather than understanding that their actions have consequences. Do you think that's true?

• What do you think Pete meant when he said, we need a big God theology?

• It God is sovereign, why is there evil in the world? Why doesn’t he just come and fix everything?

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• Complete Transcript

  Pete: Hello, I'm delighted to be here today to, uh, continue on in our series in the book of Acts. So today we're gonna be looking at Acts four versus 23 through 33. But just quickly recap where we've got up to. Um, we've just seen God heal a lame man after Peter and John had told him to get up and walk, and the people are astounded and rushed to them, and Peter boldly preaches the gospel to the great ire of the Sadducees who

  uh, then arrest Peter and John, uh, and that, and they, they interrogate Peter and John, but because they're afraid of the people, they end up releasing them, but not before threatening them. You stop speaking in the name of Jesus or else. So let's look at today's passage. Uh, Acts four from verse 23. When they were released, that's Peter and John.

  They went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them and when they heard it. So when they heard about all the threats, they lifted their voices together to God and said, sovereign Lord who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, who through the mouth of our Father, David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit.

  Why do the Gentiles rage and the Peoples Plot in vain, the kings of the Earth set themselves and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against his anointed. For truly in this city. They were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

  And now Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness while you stretch out your hand to heal. And signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus. And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.

  So they begin their Prayer by acknowledging the sovereignty of God. And at first glance, this is so peculiar, and I'm thinking to myself like, when was the last time I did that? Their first response was to behold their God, to acknowledge him for who he is and to remind themselves of who they pray to.

  Sovereign Lord, they didn't pick this name for God at random or, or use it flippantly. Cause in fact, this Greek word despotēs um, is only used a handful of times in the New Testament to name God, and it literally means master. And it denotes having ownership and authority. So all of, all of the instances of this word, besides naming God

  in the New Testament are in, are in relation to masters and bond servants and the next few servants. In, in today's passage, the next few verses clearly show us exactly what was on the believer's minds and, and tells us exactly uh, what they meant when they said sovereign. Uh, the next two phrases, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them.

  So this is his world. And then who through the mouth of our father David, your servant. So again, there we see the relationship of servant to master said by the Holy Spirit. So here we see that these early Christians had such a high view of the scriptures. You spoke through the mouth of your servant, your, your fallible servant.

  You spoke through him. So moving on to verse 25, they then quote Psalm two verses one to two. Which says, why did the Gentiles rage and the peoples plot in vain, the kings of the Earth set themselves and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against his anointed. This Prayer um, then goes on to answer the question that was put forward in Psalm two.

  That question being, why, why did they do this? Why were they gathered together against the, the Lord's anointed? Why did the Gentiles rage and the peoples plot in vain? Well, verse 27 of today's passage says, for truly in this city, they were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

  To do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. So what does whatever include? Well, those people mocked him. They blindfolded and beat him. They released a murderer in his place and they crucified him. That's what whatever includes. Those early Christians were looking back at the greatest act of sin ever committed.

  The murder of God's own son. And what did they see all over it? The sovereign hand of God, they saw God moving in his world to bring about His purposes. They saw the unmistakable fingerprints of God, even in the raging and wickedness of man. And what's astonishing about this Prayer really is that in the face of these very real threats from the very same people who had crucified their master, they immediately sought to interpret their circumstances through scripture.

  And they allowed God's word to shape and mould how they thought, how they prayed, and how they acted. We see here how precious God's word was to them. They understood their situation only because they were viewing it through the lens of God's word, through the power of the Holy Spirit. And we, we have to be really aware that everyone is trying to provide us with a lens through which to view all of reality and history, suffering, the pain we see in the world.

  But none of these worldviews are neutral. They either affirm God's truth or they don't. They either set Christ as king or they don't. And all the messages that we buy into, besides that which comes from the mouth of God, will distort the truth and deceive us. So they weren't choosing a title for God at random and they weren't choosing a piece of scripture to pray at random either, like they weren't doing Bible flip flop and just seeing where, what page they open to.

  They were quoting Psalm two because they understood what had happened at the cross and what was happening before their very eyes. They knew that those very same men who had crucified their master, um, they, they recognized right there and then that same rage and opposition that they'd had against Jesus, they were now facing that, that same, uh, that same opposition now, and they knew that they should not be troubled.

  Because their sovereign God was in control of all things. Yes. Even the threats and the malice and the wickedness of man, none of it was outside of God's control and his royal decree. To do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. So how does this make you feel? I think we love the idea of, um, the self being in control.

  Not God. And we need to be aware of our tendency and our pride to make God look just like us really. And to say that God must only work within the realms of what I deem to be right and reasonable and in in shrinking God, so that he fits inside my plans and behaves according to my will and my preferences.

  We actually end up forming a God in our own image, and that's called idolatry. And self-worship. Like we all talk a lot about, um, justice, and yet we recoil in horror at the, the thought of a God who would punish sinners in their rebellion. We all want God to work all things for the good of those who love him, and yet, We don't want God to be in control.

  We want all things on our terms. We've gotta be very, very aware of this tendency, and I firmly believe that we're in really desperate need of a, of a revival, of a, a big God theology, a God who is actually powerful enough to save, a God who cannot be thwarted, A God who's not beholden to anything. And the mystery is not really in whether or not God predestines the, the mystery is how His sovereignty works alongside human responsibility.

  We see Herod, Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles and the Jews. Everyone, uh, were consciously and willingly doing, according to the wickedness of their intents and purposes, they set themselves against the Lord's anointed. But as they did so, they were totally unaware that it was actually God's purposes being fulfilled.

  Um, we see in Acts two verse 23, it says, this Jesus delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. It was not an approximate plan or an afterthought. It was a definite plan. God wasn't thinking, well, you know, an eternity pass.

  Well, we'll, we'll start out like this and just see how things pan out. We might need to come up with a contingency plan depending on how things go. Um, but, but you might be thinking, well, but Peter Acts hadn't been written then. Um, and that's true, but I reckon those early Christians would've been familiar with some of these passages from the Old Testament.

  Um, Proverbs 16, verse 33 says, the lot is cast into the lap, but it's every decision is from the Lord. Psalm 115 verse three says, our God is in the heavens. He does all that he pleases. Everything that he does is according to his good pleasure, it, he does what he wants. Proverbs 21 verse one says, the king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord.

  He turns it wherever he will. Um, and this one in Daniel four verses 34 to 35. For his dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom endures from generation to generation and all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand or say to him, what have you done?

  Now you might be thinking, okay, all this theology is great, but gimme something practical. You might also be thinking, okay, but what does all this mean for me and my little life here and now? I'm telling you this means everything. There might not be anything more practical than seeing God rightly, and this is why we need to do away with the notion that theology is just a, a, an academic exercise.

  What you think about God will determine everything you do. We see this in the very passage we're looking at today. We'll get to that in a minute. The sovereignty of God. It's not this grandiose theological concept. It has untold implications on how we think, how we feel and behave as we, as we walk through life.

  And the early church got this, all that we do lets say in 2023, the sovereignty of God has been for millennia, a bedrock of comfort, peace, and confidence for God's people. And it really is tragic just how little we care for in the church today. And here in this Prayer, we see the early church, those early believers stepping back far enough and lifting their heads high enough and opening their eyes wide enough to see God.

  And what kind of Prayer flowed from such a view of God's sovereignty? What? What does this high view of God inspire in God's people? This glorious view of God's sovereignty did not lead them to fatalism or passivity, but to bold declaration of the gospel in the face of intense persecution, knowing that God will fulfill his purposes.

  Knowing that nothing can stay his hand, and this moved them to action. Again. Here we see how the, the, the Bible affirms both God's sovereignty and man's responsibility because the, those believers were looking at their tomorrow and they saw two options. Either we shut our mouths, do as we are told. Dilute the message.

  Uh, just get rid of the parts that people won't want to hear. Compromise. Will we serve our master and be faithful with the message he's entrusted to us? They understood that they had a responsibility. Not to man, but to God, their master. And those early believers, they saw the rage, they heard the threats, and I think it's, I think it's really clear that they knew they were on the brink of, of intense persecution.

  We can, we can notice the parallels in, uh, with the phrase gathered together. We saw, um, back in the previous chapter, uh, chapter three verse seven, it says, Herod Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles and the people of Israel were gathered together against Jesus. And now in, in, uh, chapter four, verses five to six, the believers have just heard that the rulers, the elders describes Annas, the high priest, Caiaphas, John, and Alexander.

  Uh, they were all gathered together against Peter and John. This would've been a, um, a group of about 70 something people against two, and. And these were the people who had crucified Jesus. They knew that the only thing that could sustain their wavering hearts was to fill their minds with the sovereignty of God. To have their eyes open wide enough to behold the bigness of their God.

  I, I wonder if we would be so quick to cave today as the culture keeps nudging us, um, if we believed in such a God. You know, the culture keeps saying, oh, just compromise on this one, one thing, did God really say that? Those believers in Acts four, they, they prayed for courage and in so doing so, in doing so, they prayed for trouble just, just two chapters later.

  Steven is stoned because of his refusal to stop preaching the gospel, and it's not long after that that James is martyred and Saul ravages the church. But I, I think those, those believers were also aware of how Psalm 2 ends. It says in verses 11 and 12, serve the Lord with fear and rejoice with trembling.

  Kiss the son. That's Jesus. Lest he be angry and you perish in the way for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. That must have been so precious for them to know. Blessed, glad, happy are those who take refuge in him even unto death. They knew that come what may. There is no safer place, no place better to be in the hands of a good and sovereign God.

  I encourage you to, to read through the entire story of, of Joseph's life in Genesis. I'm sure you've heard something about this guy Joseph, and the technicolor dream coat. Um, have a look at his story and see the betrayal, uh, that, that he faced. See the murderous intent of his brothers, and just how many, I mean, dozens and dozens of seemingly random and just unfortunate events took place in his life.

  And in Genesis 50 verse 20, Joseph looks back on it all and he says, As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good. To bring it about that many people should be kept alive as they are today. This is a stunning verse that the, the verb. Um, that's translated meant, um, in those two instances, in this verb, in this verse, it's the exact same verb that's used, hasa, as for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good.

  So Joseph was stepping back looking at this stunning masterpiece of God moving in his world to bring about his purposes according to his good pleasure, according to what he wants for our good and for his glory. And this is, this is an incredible, uh, precursor to the cross because haven't we seen exactly the same thing in our passage in Acts today in your plotting, in your violence, in your malice you meant to defeat God's anointed, but I meant it that many should live.

  Before closing. I, I want to take us back one last time to Psalm 2. That, that psalm that the, those early Christians quoted in verses five to six, it says this, then he will speak to them in his wrath and terrify them in his fury. Um, so this is speaking about those who would oppose, um, Jesus his anointed. Then he will speak to them in his wrath and terrify them in his fury, saying, as for me,

  I have set my king on Zion, my Holy Hill. God has set his king on Zion, his Holy Hill. I recently heard a preacher say that if you, if you want to boil the gospel down to one phrase, um, which is kind of, uh, impossible to do really, but if you wanted to try, it'd be something like this. As we see in Philippians 2 verse 11.

  Jesus Christ is Lord. Jesus Christ is king. He is. He's Lord because he took on human flesh. We see that in the incarnation. He is Lord because he lived a perfect life. He was crucified on the cross that sinners like you and me might be reconciled to the father. He is Lord because he rose from the grave, defeating death, sin, and the devil.

  And he's Lord because he ascended and is seated at the right hand of God in a place of singular unique authority. And he's Lord because he's coming again one day to judge the world in righteousness. And the only question remaining is does he have your allegiance?

  Matt: Coming up, we have Conversation Street. But before we get into that, here's a clip from our podcast. What's the story which you can subscribe to on all your favorite podcast apps.

  Mark: And to think it's probably the most formative revelation I've ever had about anything in my Christian walk and it came from the worst thing I've ever done. And you think, people think, well then, you know, of course God will have to punish you. And they think, no, he doesn't punish his own. He will chastise and discipline, but mostly he's in the redemption business. Yeah. Because he wants us fit upon the front line, not, you know, lying in some unmarked grave somewhere because we stepped outta line. And that's not making light of sin. It isn't a light thing, but when it's dealt with, it doesn't exist anymore. But I think we struggle to accept.

  Matt: So welcome back to Conversation Street, with myself and Claire. First and foremost. Pete, what a phenomenal talk. We are gonna get into that Loved, love, love that. Uh, and also if you, uh, if you haven't checked it out yet and you haven't subscribed, do subscribe to What's the story. That conversation with Mark Buchanan that I had was just brilliant.

  And he talks about smuggling Bibles near death experiences and all kinds of stuff in that podcast. Um, some of the stuff he gets. Some of the stuff he got up to it was just amazing. And, um, so yeah, do check it out, Mark. He's such a legend. Uh, really great guy. And so it was really interesting to hear his story.

  And that's on the What's the Story Podcast. Do check that out. So, God's sovereignty. Sharing the word, uh, well sharing, you know, being bold in your witness for Christ, all kind of good stuff, which we're gonna get into in Conversation Street. Any thoughts, any questions, any comments? Do write them in the YouTube comments.

  We will get to them. Uh, so Claire, let's, let's just jump straight into that. I, cuz people don't know this, but, um, When the talk is playing, I can hear you as well as I can hear Pete. Right. And so when Pete's talk's playing, uh, occasionally we have little conversations between ourselves, but I just, I just heard a lot of Claire going Yes, yes. Oh yes. Amen. And all this sort of stuff, so, um..

  Claire: It was a cracker. It was. I don't think I've ever heard Pete speak before, actually. Shocking. Shockingly. And,

  Matt: I dunno. Where have you been?

  Claire: I really, really enjoyed that. Um, yeah, I loved what, I dunno who AB is, but in the comments I can't respond to the comments, but, um, I loved he/she said, pencil your plans in cuz God might just rub them out.

  I thought that was, I thought that kind of summed up the whole talk really about, uh, you know, in, in lots of ways. Oh, it's certainly about that sovereignty aspect, but yeah, absolute loads, loads of thought.

  Matt: Let me do that. Look, I can add that to the broadcast. There we go. I found it in the comments.

  Uh, so yes, just pencil in your plans because God might just rub it out. Yeah. So.

  Claire: I'm sure that you've had some plans rubbed out in your life. I feel like I, tonight was nearly rubbed out for me.

  Matt: It was. It was. Again, what you don't know, ladies and gentlemen, is I sent Claire a text message and all Claire, I see you're hosting tonight. So I'll see cuz Claire comes around to the house and does the hosting from the house.

  Claire: It's much quieter here.

  Matt: Yeah, yeah. Your kids aren't running right in my house usually. And um, and so I said, oh, I'll see you later. She went, oh, I completely forgot. So that plan had to be quickly penciled in, uh, I dunno if it was rubbed out. I just dunno if it was ever penciled in.

  Claire: No, it wasn't.

  Matt: Um, but, um, yeah, no, it's good. And uh, God's sovereignty. What a, what a fascinating conversation, um, or fascinating talk from Pete because as he was talking, And it was the first time, uh, that I'd heard his talk. I, mm-hmm. Sometimes I'd listened to him before, some if I get a chance.

  This time I didn't. And it was the first time I'd heard his talk and I thought, goodness me, we don't talk a lot about the sovereignty of God, which surprises me, given that it is such a big topic. And I thought, well, good on you, Pete, for having a go. Uh, well done for tackling that. And when we were talking before the livestream, weren't we, I said, Claire, Pete's talking about the sovereignty of God.

  You were like, oh, right. Let me just go get my philosophy A level out the bag. And because it is a bit like that, isn't it really?

  Claire: Mm-hmm. And I, I, I mean, I love a bit of random Greek and Hebrew words, but the, the one that, the, the one that I, I, you know, I say that I'm fluent in many languages, but I've not non, no Hebrew or Greek to my to name.

  But he used that word, um, despotēs, I think you, I think he said. Mm-hmm. And to me, straight away I was like, oh, despot. Yeah. And we all, we, in modern day life, we use that in a really negative way, don't we? To Yeah. Um, to, you know, dictator, you know, but mm-hmm. But I loved the way he unpacks what that meant about the character of God and this sovereignty element, this master.

  Uh, you know, because that, that is who God is. Yeah. Um, and, um, but yeah, I was, I was struck by that. But then the other thing that obviously, you know, when you think about slavery and, you know, um, those sorts of things that there were bond servants, there were slaves, you know, they, they would've held that sort of view of themselves, you know, that master servant relationship.

  Yeah. Yeah. And I think. I think, you know, there were elements that are helpful about that and obviously elements that aren't thoughtful in, you know, in modern times. But, but I just was like, oh, straight away I thought, but yeah, but he's a good, he's a good despot. He's a good master, and that's the, he's a loving god.

  Mm-hmm. And that's the, that's the thing that balances it, isn't it? That makes it, you know, full of hope and comfort. And

  Matt: Yeah. Yeah, it does. It does. You're right. And it's, um, despot. I, I, I noticed that as well. I thought, oh, that's an interesting. Interesting word he's pulled out there, which is, uh, which is interesting.

  One of the things that Pete said, which really struck me was he said, you know what, um, they've, they've just come back from being severely reprimanded Claire, I think is the right phrase, um, by the religious authorities. Uh, you know, this guy gets healed. Amazing miracle. It doesn't go well. They get arrested for it for whatever reason, and they come back from that and they have a sort of a church Prayer meeting, don't they?

  They all sort of get together, say, well, let's pray. Let's see what's, see what God's got to say and let's pray about this. Yeah. And the first thing they address in the Prayer is the sovereignty of God. And, um, they call him sovereign God, uh, sovereign father, don't they? And it's like, yeah. And Pete mentioned this.

  He said, I don't know. And I, I've been racking my brains as well. I don't know. I don't remember the first time in my Prayer, or the first thing that I do in my Prayer is go, right, let's, let's address this whole sovereignty of God thing. Yeah. And um, I thought that was quite fascinating. And then I got thinking about the Lord's Prayer, which starts off, as we all know, our father who is in heaven.

  Mm-hmm. Um, holy is your name. And its in effect saying, you are God, you are holy, you are in heaven. Mm-hmm. We're down here. It's like, it's, that whole thing isn't,

  Claire: it's that balance, that re that restoration of relationship, isn't it? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

  Matt: Really interesting. How do you normally start your prayers? Do you normally start them by thinking about sovereignty of God?

  Claire: Probably not. I, the, probably what I was thinking was maybe the nearest, I perhaps get to it regularly is lord. Yeah. Or surrender, you know, oh God, I surrender myself to you. Mm-hmm. Uh, I you know, Lord, you are King of kings. You are Lord of lords. That's probably the nearest, but I like, you know, like you, I can't remember the last time I, I, you know, I, I, I love the Bible because there were so many brilliant prayers in it.

  And you just think, oh, sometimes when you're struggling around and you're thinking, oh God, what do I say? You know, actually just turn to the Bible and, and open up a Prayer, you know, because, um, they've prayed some really, but, but I loved what you were saying about, you know, That they, what Pete was saying as well about the expecting praying for boldness and expecting trouble.

  Yeah. Oh yeah.

  Matt: Praying for courage. It's praying for trouble. I thought that was brilliant.

  Claire: Yeah, it's, it is. And it's, and it's, and it is true, isn't it? Mm-hmm. And I think we've, we um, but that was their natural response, wasn't it? It was, yeah. We're not gonna shrink back. We're not gonna hide. You are the God who made everything.

  You are good. You are lovng. And actually because of that, because we know who you are, we can do our part, we can, we, we, we need, we need your help to be courageous, to be bold. But we are gonna do that. And we are not gonna, we're gonna, we're not gonna, you know, step back. Um, yeah. Yeah. And I, I, you know, and you, hindsight's a wonderful thing, isn't it?

  But, you know, I don't know whether they did know what the, you know, all that was going in. Although they have got the example of the prophets, haven't they? In the old Testament? Yeah. It mostly ended up, you know,

  Matt: not in a good way. Yeah. It's, but it, it didn't seem to put them off, did it? It didn't. It doesn't seem to scare them.

  And you're right, it's that desire not to shrink back from a difficult situation. Yeah, yeah. And to go, God, you are sovereign. God, somehow you are in control. I can't necessarily see the end from the beginning, but I know enough to know that you are not defeated by the stupidity of man. Including my own stupidity, including us.

  Yeah. Lemme just put that out there. But you're not, you're not defeated by that. And in fact, actually, um, you can do something quite amazing in this when I submit to the fact that you are God. And again, right at the start of the talk, Pete talked about how, um, I'm, I'm just looking at my notes here, how in this sort of greatest act.

  There was in sort of humanity of, of sort of gross horror as in the, you know, we're gonna kill the, kill the Christ, not the smartest move we've ever done. Um, God's sovereign hand was all over that, and if he was there, he can be in what I'm doing. Right. And so I thought that was super, super encouraging.

  Mm-hmm.

  Yes. Oh, Sarah's in the comment. Hi Sarah. What's Miriam put here? Prayer is amazing. It changed my life. I've been praying for 10 years that God would find me the right time to talk about my Williams syndrome special needs. And today I did it at work. You go, Miriam, that's wonder. Yeah. Wonderful. You legend. Love that.

  Claire: Well done Miriam. Yeah. And at, but I think, you know, to me that says that faithful Prayer, isn't it? Mm-hmm. These things don't happen overnight. Mm-hmm. You know, the challenges that we have in our lives. You know, sometimes we get a quick answer, you know, but often the things that really, um, that, that, that are really challenging and that take that time Yeah.

  Are, are really precious and God can use us to, to, you know, to help other people along the way. Can't, don't you? Yeah. Yeah. So well done Miriam.

  Matt: Well done Miriam. Nichola's put here. Sometimes I can't, I, I think I said sometimes you can't see the end from the beginning, and Nicholas has put, sometimes I can't even see the beginning.

  That's, that's a really good comment.

  Claire: Oh yeah, we're, we're there Nicola. We, we hear you.

  Matt: Yeah, it's, it's interesting, isn't it? And it's. It's a fascinating one. So the sovereignty of God and the thing that Pete did, which I quite liked, um, was he, he made this parallel between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. Because there is this thing isn't there where the sovereignty of God and, and, and you see it probably more in other faith.

  You do see it a little bit in Christianity, but probably more in other faith where it is just this give up. You know, God's will is God's will. Nothing can change it. Nothing can deviate it. God's gonna do what God's gonna do. Therefore,

  Claire: sort of fatalism, isn't it? Perhaps?

  Matt: Yeah. It becomes really fatalistic. You're right. So how do we, how do we avoid that? Do you think? Oh, do you think we're too far the other way? Do, I mean, Pete talked about as being, having too much control maybe sometime.

  Claire: Yeah, it's, it's, it, I think there's lots of barriers in living the life with Jesus isn't there where you have to carry two things at the same time, don't you?

  Yeah. So you, it's almost like a, a, not a juggling act, but a bit of a balancing act. And so I, so it's that word, I, I noted it down as well. Predestined. That's part of the Prayer, wasn't it? Yeah. And I think I, you know, like the example that came to my mind was, um, was about all, you know, love and romantic love in particular, and.

  Oh, there's the, the one out there for me. You know, and you know, God's got the right man for me or woman, you know? And, um, and I, you know, it's not that straightforward. It, if I, I think of it more as a, a tapestry and, you know, um, uh, Pete referred to that brilliant verse in Jo at the end of Joseph, uh, end of Genesis about Joseph, which is one of my absolute favorite verses that, you know, And they had planned, his brothers had planned for evil.

  God turned it around, uh, for, for, you know, for everybody's salvation. Otherwise, everyone would've died, wouldn't we? The whole Egyptians, all the Hebrews, everybody. And it, you know, it was God's plan. And so I, you know, it's, um, it is, it's, it's an interesting one. I, um, yeah, it is. What's that? I've done no idea. Caire.

  I'm not sure if that was helpful or not.

  Matt: It's interesting here, I just got some notes. It says, instead of looking at how I believe, see, one of the things that Pete said was how we see God and how we. How we understand God impacts everything, right? So if we see God, um, if we see ourselves created in God's image rather than God created in our image, which I thought was a very clever thing that he said,

  Claire: really challenging, come on Pete.

  Matt: Very, very challenging.

  You're just writing a dang an ouch, ouch, ouch. And if you've just joined us on the live stream, basically what Pete said was, You know, too often we want God to act according to our own sort of guidelines and rules. Uh, and God can do things in, you know, as almost as we dictate. In other words, we create God in our image, uh, as opposed to us being created in God's image.

  And I just, you just have to go. Ouch. Don't you? Sometimes you, sometimes you can't say amen as Dave Connelly likes to say. You just have to say ouch because of the situation. Like, yeah, do that one. Uh, I do that one. So, So yeah. Instead of looking at how I, how our beliefs about God impact our actions, we can also consider how our actions may shape our beliefs about God.

  For example, if someone consistently behaves in a selfish or cruel way, they may come to believe that God is selfish or cruel. Mm-hmm. Rather than understanding that their actions have consequences. Do you think that's true? Do you think that's right?

  Claire: Sorry, I had a little micro sleep there. Mike. Mike?

  Matt: Yeah. I'm Matt.

  Claire: I'm never gonna get invited again.

  Matt: The beautiful thing, Claire, is this is going out live, so I can't edit that out. I just can't. And even if I could, I wouldn't, but,

  Claire: but what I think this communicates is the. The sovereignty of, and the fact that we all make mistakes. There we go. Do you like how I've weaved that back in?

  Matt: Yeah, sure. I don't believe a single word you just said, but Yeah, sure. Let's, let's go with that. Yeah. In case you've not guessed ladies and gentlemen, we do like to have a little bit of banter and humor here at our church. We do because we believe. God is sovereign, but God is also really funny. Yes. Um, uh, if you don't believe me, just have a look at, have a look at, you know, look at this.

  Claire: He created us all. And that's, that's crazy fish. But anyway, but, but I, I mean, I is, it's, I mean, he weaves it. God weaves it all through the Bible tells that story, doesn't it? You know? Um, you know, there's bits of it in the Bible where Jesus is there but not as Jesus, you know, as the angel of the Lord, or there's prophecies about Jesus' life.

  And, you know, they're talking about Psalm two and Pete was talking about Psalm two and just right throughout, you know, um, scripture. It's all being, being woven together and up. Mm-hmm. You know, because it, because God has a plan. Mm-hmm. And, and, and I think. One of the things that, that always encourages me, there's a, there's a verse that where it talks about somebody, um, one of David's mighty man.

  Yeah. And they're, um, they're in a lentil field or something scaring off bears or something, and I'm just saying, how random is that?That that's written there. But bull. I think it encourages me that even though what we're not written about in the Bible, you know, the Bible's a a a done book. Mm-hmm. But we are, we, we are part of that onward book of acts of the, you know, acts the apostles, acts of the Holy Spirit.

  And we are, we, when, when part of God's story aren't we, and the things that we do, those bold acts, those courageous acts. Those sacrificial acts, uh, that are things that are hard, that are challenging, you know, that we don't understand, that we don't know the beginning from the end and all of that. Um, you know, God, God notes it down.

  He knows and he sees it and, um, and because he's our loving, loving father. Yeah, yeah,

  Matt: yeah. No, a big, big, big hearty Amen I think, What do you think Pete meant when he said, we need a big God theology? I thought that was an interesting phrase. Um,

  Claire: I, I, I think we, we live, I, I think generally we're quite selfish. We're quite narrow minded and, and we, you know, we live in a, you know, generally we are friends with people who are like us. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and, and I, and I think it's quite rare to, um, To be somebody that, that surround yourself with somebody you know, who, who is utterly different.

  Mm-hmm. You know, I, I mean, I, I, although I, I am married to somebody who is utterly different, which is a choice and a challenge and you know, and I am sure part of God's sovereignty for our lives, I think I, you know, It's just wonderful, isn't it? That God is Yeah, he is uncontainable, he is, um, indescribable. He is, you know, bigger than we can't ever, you know, what is it like, um, from Narnia?

  Um, he is not a tame lion. Yeah, yeah. You know, but he is good and he, and, uh, it's a relief I think.

  Matt: Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is, it is very much a relief. It's, um, it's one of those where I, I do love that part of, um, the lion, the witch in the wardrobe, where, where they do say, you know, talking about Aslan, he's not a safe lion.

  He's not a tame lion. Mm-hmm. But he is good. Yeah. And this comes back to the earlier comment, doesn't it? That yes, God is sovereign, but God is also fundamentally good. And those two things aren't separated, they actually are co-joined together, aren't they? So, um, which from a, I mean just from a pure, uh, what's the word I'm looking for?

  Um, apologetics point of view. One of the big things that people have struggle with in terms of the sovereignty of God is, well, if God is sovereign, why is there so much evil in the world? Why doesn't he just come down and stop everything, right? Mm-hmm. And actually, what the gospel tells us and what the story of Christ tells is actually God, um, in the suffering.

  Still makes it all work together for the good of those that love him. Yeah. And, um, and we can have hope in that. Yeah. That actually the, the craziness and wickedness of man is not outdone by the goodness of God. And somehow in the middle of it, God still, Still does his thing, right? Yeah. Um, and that's something that I think is, is super, super good, super good, super lovely, super awesome.

  Claire: I mean, I, without that, I don't think I would get through, I, you know, I just genuinely, like, you know, I'm sure you are going through stuff. We, you know, we've been going through something for like 12 years mm-hmm. And it's still not at an end. And you know, we often ask, turn to each other and say what the heck?

  What is going on, you know, but all we can do is stand and do what we have got to do and pray and call out to God and trust that whether it works out our way, whether it doesn't, that's okay. We're just doing what we are doing. Yeah. And, um, and I, and I, you know, I think you know, and God's good. And you know, in the midst of that, you know, pain and suffering, uh, you know, which is momentary, you know?

  Mm-hmm. You know, even 12 years, it's momentary, isn't it? When you think about, um, you know, Joseph, I think he was in, in prison for like, I dunno, 20 years or 30. I, it was a long time. I think, I don't know. We don't know. But it was a long time. Long. It was a long time. Um, and, and then he had the seven years of famine.

  Mm-hmm. You know, the seven year, seven good years, and then the seven bad years, you know, so it was during that, that was a long time to be apart from your, your dad and your brothers. Yeah. Wasn't it? You know? Yeah. Uh, and, and I, I was, I thought about Job, the story of job in the Bible as well. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and Esther.

  You know, I mean, I think there are so many examples aren't there, where we can, um, you know, and they do all end actually happily, but, you know, and, and you know, but I think there are other examples where, you know, I've had a very dear friend and she's died of cancer recently, you know, that is absolutely tragic.

  Yeah. Um, but confident that she is, has gone to heaven, you know, and, uh, you know, That is awful for her family and mm-hmm. You know, people in who loved her and NODA.

  Matt: NODA, your language is awesome tonight. Claire. You're on point, totally on point. And I No, I totally get it. I mean, we, we talk about the sovereignty of God and the, and the grace of God, which is ruled by the goodness of God.

  That doesn't mean I have to understand everything. No. Um, and that, that in fact, I don't understand everything. I don't understand why, why that lady died of cancer. Mm-hmm. I have no good answer, but I do know in the middle of it, God is still gracious. God is still good and God is still sovereign and that there is a plan which is still being outworked somewhere somehow.

  Yeah. And I have to believe that for it all to make sense really in my head. Yeah.

  Claire: Um, well that, but that's faith isn't it? That is faith and it's a gift. Yeah. You know? Um, yeah. That, you know, Yeah, because

  Matt: it's interesting one. Yeah, it is an interesting one. And, and just to reemphasize the point that we're talking about, the sovereignty of God, it does not excuse our responsibility as people.

  No, no. Pete still prayed. People still went out. Pete still went out and did things. Um, it's like we were joking around when we, before the, before we hit the live button, it's like, oh yeah. Sovereignty of God. Well, if it's God's will for me to get out of bed this morning, he'll, he'll get me out of bed. Um, and it's, you know, no,

  Claire: it's like Wallace and Gromit, one of those, you know, specialists.

  Matt: Yeah. You could just see an angel coming down, going right. You little so and so. You is gone get up.

  But people do that, don't they? All the time. Not worry. If this is what God wants, he'll do that. And it's like, yeah, okay. Come on, let's not resolve ourself of our responsibility. Yeah. Um, but let's trust in God's sovereignty. Very good. Claire, I think we've reached the end of Conversation Street cuz I'm aware of time.

  I feel like we're just getting warmed up. I'm just curious to see what other words you are gonna invent and other names you're gonna call me as we go along? Um,

  Claire: See you later, dave. Oh no, that's next week.

  Matt: That's Next week. Yeah. Here we go. Why, why don't you tell everyone what's coming up next week?

  Claire: So next week. It's Easter Sunday. Fabulous. And, um, I hope you, if you get chocolate, I hope you enjoy it. Um, but the lovely Dave Connolly is gonna be speaking, uh, next Sunday on the live stream.

  So that'll be amazing.

  Matt: Yeah, we've got Dave Connelly next week. Myself and Anna are hosting, um, which will be, uh, great. Have you, do you do this, um, thing for Lent? Do you give up chocolate? Are you one of these, uh, people that No. Me, neither.

  Claire: My life's too chocolate. I need chocolate and coffee. What I have done,

  Matt: Jesus, chocolate and coffee.

  Claire: What I have done is, and I've really enjoyed it, is I've taken Facebook permanently off my phone. Oh, well done, and, and, um, but that's partly because I had no memory, but I'm really enjoying not having facebook on my phone.

  Matt: Yeah, it's a funny one, isn't it? With Facebook. I, I rarely check it these days, and when I do it, it's like, oh, you've got 26 of this and 17 of that.

  You're like, okay, but I don't, I, I'm, I'm with you checking on a regular basis, probably not that helpful, but giving it for lent. An interesting point. Interesting point. Maybe we should talk about that this time next year. Who knows what we'll talk about.

  Claire: Or 40 days before or whatever.

  Matt: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

  Sorry. I need to get a little bit earlier. Yeah. Note to self Matt, Lent starts a little bit earlier. No, that's brilliant. Claire, anything else from you as we wrap up today's live stream?

  Claire: Just looking back at me notes. No, it was brilliant. Well done.

  Matt: It was brilliant. Uh, andy's put here in the comments. Keep praying. I think we were talking about, uh, or you were talking about the 10, 12 years thing.

  Claire. Yeah. Turn through some of 12 years. Keep praying. Uh, top tip. Um. Oh yeah, Matt's reminded me, reminded me earlier. You see, you reminded me too soon, Matt. That's a problem. Zoom. Was it the Zoom now? Yeah. Yeah. Now he's told me about Zoom. So Wednesday nights, uh, Matt loves this because I always forget Wednesday nights.

  Uh uh, we have a midweek zoom group, which you're more than welcome to join us. We'd like to come join us on that. Come, uh, meet the gang. Come pray. Catch up with folks. It's all good stuff. Uh, just get in touch with us at Crowd Church. The website is now on the screen at www.crowd.church. If you're listening to the audio version of the podcast, um, you can reach out to us and we will send you those Zoom details.

  We would love to meet, you'd love to have you in that group. But I think other than that, that's it from me. That's it from Claire. Have a fantastic week, uh, wherever you are in the world. Enjoy the run up to Easter and do join us next week as we get to celebrate the biggest thing that Christians love. Yeah, Easter.

  Claire: Without it, it's absolutely pointless. Without Easter Sunday.

  Matt: It's very true. Uh, you should just do the whole service next week. Claire.

  Claire: I'll leave it in yours and Dave's capable hands.

  Matt: Oh, you've been an absolute legend, Claire. I love doing this with you. Thanks for stepping in at last minute notice, uh, and, uh, and get the calendar out.

  Yeah, let's get, we'll put it in the diary next time. Thanks for calling me Mike. Uh, that's, uh, sorry.

  Oh, that one's not gonna drop anytime soon, is it? No. Okay. Have a fantastic week, ladies, gentlemen. God bless you. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for your comments. It's been absolutely wonderful to talk about this topic, the sovereignty of God. So this week, uh, pray you experience what that means, what that looks like for you.

  Uh, yeah. As we figure this stuff out, Jesus really is Lord. God bless you. Yeah. That's it from, Bye for now.

  Thank you so much for joining us here on Crowd Church. Now if you are watching on YouTube, make sure you hit the subscribe button as well as that little tiny bell notification to get notified the next time we are live. And of course, if you are listening to the podcast, uh, the Livestream podcast, make sure you also hit the follow button. Now by smashing the like button on YouTube or writing a review on your podcast platform.

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  It has been awesome to connect with you and you are awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear and hopefully we'll see you next time. That's it from us. God bless you. Bye for now.