#25 The Power of Forgiveness

Sunday LivestreamBecoming Whole

4 May

Written By Sharon Edmundson

YouTube Video of the Church Service

Time Stamps

00:00:00 - Welcome to Crowd Church with Matt and Dan
00:04:00 - Talk begins: The Power of Forgiveness with Sharon Edmundson
00:05:40 - What forgiveness isn't: Setting the record straight
00:08:00 - Sharon's personal journey with unforgiveness and anger
00:13:48 - Jesus' parable of the unforgiving servant (Matthew 18:21-35)
00:21:00 - The practical sheet for processing forgiveness
00:28:00 - Conversation Street: Answering your questions about forgiveness

The Radical Freedom of Letting Go

Forgiveness is one of those topics that sounds simple on the surface but becomes incredibly complex when we actually try to live it out. As Sharon shared in her talk this Sunday, most of us have heard about forgiveness our entire lives, but that doesn't mean we truly understand it.

"For all of us, some things are easier to forgive than others," Sharon reminded us. We might easily forgive a damaged jacket or a minor slight, but what about when someone spreads harmful rumours about us? Or when a medical misdiagnosis leads to serious health consequences? Or in the most extreme cases, when someone we love is killed by a drunk driver?

It's in these moments that we might find ourselves saying, "I won't forgive them because they don't deserve it" or "What they've done is unforgivable."

But the Bible presents a radically different approach to dealing with hurt.

What Forgiveness Isn't

Before diving into what forgiveness is, Sharon clarified several misconceptions:

Forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation
It's not excusing or condoning wrong actions
It's not ignoring an offense or pretending it didn't happen
It's not cancelling the consequences (you can forgive and still pursue justice)
It's not suppressing your feelings
It's not something only weak people do
And it's not always instant

These clarifications are crucial because many of us resist forgiveness based on misunderstandings about what we're actually being asked to do.

When Hurt Turns Inward

Sharon vulnerably shared her own experience growing up in a Christian home with a mother who struggled with an eating disorder. While she was learning about God's love and freedom at church, her home life was dominated by mental illness, anxiety and depression.

"I was so angry inside," Sharon admitted. "But I'd somehow got this idea that good Christian girls don't get angry."

This suppression of emotions—turning anger inward rather than processing it healthily—led to depression and a cycle of faking the emotions she thought she was supposed to have.

Many of us respond to hurt in similarly unhealthy ways:

Suppression: pushing emotions down, leading to depression or substance abuse
Unhealthy expression: lashing out, gossiping, seeking revenge, or trying to hurt others

Both approaches leave us trapped in a cycle of pain.

The Biblical Path to Freedom

The breakthrough for Sharon came through Ephesians 4:26-27: "Be angry, yet do not sin. Do not let the sun go down on your anger and do not give the devil an opportunity."

This scripture helped her realise that anger itself isn't necessarily sinful—sometimes it's the appropriate response to injustice. As Tim Keller puts it, "You should be angry when you see something bad threatening something good."

Even Jesus displayed righteous anger in Mark 3:1-6 when confronted with religious leaders who valued rules over human compassion.

The problem isn't feeling anger—it's what we do with it.

The Parable That Changes Everything

Jesus addressed forgiveness directly in Matthew 18:21-35 with the parable of the unforgiving servant. In this story, a servant who owes his master an astronomical amount (equivalent to about $7 billion in today's money) is forgiven his debt completely. Yet this same servant refuses to forgive a fellow servant who owes him a relatively tiny amount (about $8,000).

"This parable is about settling accounts," Sharon explained. "It's like an accounting thing."

The king represents God, and we are the servants who owe a debt we could never repay. The revolutionary message of the gospel is that God himself, in Jesus Christ, paid our debt in full.

"Can you imagine the relief, the joy?" Sharon asked. "This is the good news of the gospel—Jesus pays our debt in full."

This is what theologians sometimes call "the great exchange": Jesus taking all our sin and giving us his righteousness in return.

Making Forgiveness Practical

One of the most helpful aspects of Sharon's talk was her practical approach to forgiveness. She shared a simple accounting sheet with five columns:

Who hurt me? (Be specific)
What did they do? (List specific incidents)
How do I feel about it? (Connect with the emotions)
What do they owe me? (Identify the perceived debt)
My prayer of blessing for them (After releasing the debt)

"One of the keys to actually forgiving from your heart is connecting with how you feel about it," Sharon emphasised. "If we skip the emotion bit and just try and do it as a logical exercise, we are actually missing a key part."

Identifying what you feel you're owed—whether it's respect, an apology, a restored reputation, or something else—helps clarify what you're actually being asked to release.

The Cost and Freedom of Forgiveness

During Conversation Street, Sharon, Matt and Dan explored the reality that forgiveness does come with a cost. For Sharon, forgiving her mother meant she could no longer blame her for her struggles—she had to take responsibility for her own healing journey.

"For quite a while, I didn't want to do that, to be honest," she admitted.

Yet the freedom that comes from true forgiveness is worth everything. As Matt quoted, "Unforgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting it to hurt the other person." We're the ones who remain trapped when we can't forgive.

Dan added, "It's such a great feeling when it's no longer your concern... I don't need the stress in my life. God can deal with it."

Your Next Steps

If you're struggling with unforgiveness right now, here are some practical next steps:

Identify who you need to forgive - It might be someone else, yourself, or even (though Sharon clarified God himself never needs forgiveness, we sometimes mistakenly feel anger toward him)
Use the forgiveness worksheet - Work through each column honestly, with the Holy Spirit's help
Count the cost - What would it mean to truly release this person from their debt to you?
Make it visual - Physically cross out the debt as a symbol of your choice to forgive
Revisit as needed - Remember you've forgiven, especially when memories resurface
Explore these resources:
- "Forgive Release and Be Free" by Joff Day
- "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend
- Tim Keller's podcast "Praying Out Your Anger"

Remember, forgiveness isn't always instant. As Sharon shared, "When I first properly learned how to forgive, it took me a long time to get to that point where I could actually forgive, where I could process what had gone on and was ready to give it up."

But the journey toward forgiveness, however long it takes, leads to a freedom that nothing else can provide.

Join us next Sunday as Dave Connolly continues our wholeness series, exploring how we can "let go of the past" as the Apostle Paul describes in Philippians 3:13: "One thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead."

The Power of Forgiveness
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[00:00:00]
Welcome
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Matt Edmundson: A very warm welcome to you. Uh, this is Crowd Church, and beside me hosting this evening is the beautiful and delightful Dan Orange.
Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, I'll tell you whatever I can get, don't you? Yeah. Especially at our age. I'll take that. Yeah, definitely.
Dan Orange: It's, it's, it's, it's great to be beautiful and it's great to be here.
Matt Edmundson: Indeed. It is. Yeah. Indeed It is. Uh, on, on every account. So very warm. Welcome to you. Thank you so much for joining us, uh, here from Sunny Liverpool.
Yes, we are. So make sure you say hi in the comments. Um, oh, hang on. Make sure you say hi in the comments. Let us know where you're watching from. It'd be good to hear from you, even if it's your first time. Don't be afraid. Join in the comments. Uh, let us know your questions as we go through the service.
Just tell us a bit about yourself. We're genuinely interested. Be great to meet you. Now at the end of the service, um, we do this thing where we just hang out on Google meets. So if you're watching online. [00:01:00] You can come and say how, how's it to us, uh, and just meet people. So we'll be doing that at the end of the service.
The link will come up later. So if you're online and you fancy jumping on and chatting, uh, then why not go doc Crowd? Church slash meet I think is url, but that will come on later, or Zoe will put it in the comments. Um, have you done that already? No. Okay. Uh, so that will happen later. Uh, but yeah, very warm.
Welcome. So what's going on tonight?
Dan Orange: We have got a wonderful and beautiful Sharon Edmundson.
Matt Edmundson: She is WellFit, aren't you? And so I'm told, yes. WellFit my gorgeous wife. So, uh, yeah, what are we talking about tonight?
Dan Orange: Talking about forgiveness, which I'm very much looking forward to. I love this topic because I think it's distinguishes Christianity from so many other.
Religions, lifestyles, [00:02:00] whatever you wanna say. It's just, it's transformative. Really is transformative. So I'm very much looking forward to what Sharon's got to say, um, and what we've got coming up. Next week. So we tell people about what's coming up and you are like super king,
Matt Edmundson: so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, coming up next week we've got Dave Connolly, uh, uh, which will be great.
So he's, he's carrying on as well. We're talking about wholeness. To give you some kind of idea, we're in this series on wholeness, and we're talking about wholeness in relation. To, uh, ourselves and what the Bible has to say about it and what God's plan for wholeness is and what that looks like for us. So we are carrying on that series, we're in this section called Soul Health, which we introduced.
A few weeks ago, was it last week? I can't remember. Anyway, we've, we introduced, um, soul health, which is the mind, the will and the emotions, and we've looked at that, [00:03:00] um, last week. We're looking at it this week in the power of forgiveness. Next week, Dave Conley is carrying that on about how we do this thing where we let go of the past.
The Apostle Paul says, one thing that I do, I forget those things which are past. So how do we, how do we do that? That in. Ties in a little bit with the talk tonight.
Dan Orange: Yeah. I think, 'cause people often say, forgive and forget, don't they? And they say, well, I could, I could probably work out the forgiveness, but the forgetting bit.
Should I, should I forget? How do I forget? You don't, you don't wanna steal Sharon's preach. No, no, exactly. Not when you sat this close to her.
Matt Edmundson: So, without further ado, uh, let's hand over to Sharon after the talk. I will be back with Dan and Sharon. We're gonna do Conversation Street. So any questions, any thoughts, any comments, write them, uh, as we go along and we will do our best to answer them later.
So here's Sharon.
The Power of Forgiveness - Talk with Sharon Edmundson
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Sharon Edmundson: Oh, hi [00:04:00] everybody. It's great to be with you talking about one of my favorite subjects, and I just pray that God brings it to life to you and that I can do some justice to this amazing subject. I think I probably say this every time, but this is a massive subject that we could talk about for hours and we're trying to condense it into a few minutes, so it's just a bit of a, you know, whistle stop tour.
So how easy. Do you find it to forgive? So if someone damaged something that was precious to you, maybe a favorite jacket or your car or something else, could you forgive them for that? Or what about if somebody stole something from you? How about if somebody spread untrue rumors? Uh, what about if your doctor misdiagnosed you and now your illness was past the point of being cured?
Or on the very extreme end? What about someone that you loved was killed by a drunk driver? For all of us, some things are easier to forgive than [00:05:00] others, aren't they? Have you ever heard someone say, or maybe you've said it yourself? I won't forgive them because they don't deserve it, or what they've done is unforgivable.
As you may have guessed, the Bible has a lot to say about this subject. Now I love this subject because it has changed my life radically, both in terms of receiving forgiveness and also giving it. So today I am gonna talk a little bit about my story. I'm gonna look at two unhealthy ways of dealing with life when we're hurt and looking at, uh, one of the healthy ways that the Bible mentions.
This is just one of the things, it's not the only thing. There are many others as well, but, um, we really don't have time to look at all of those. But before I get into what forgiveness is, I want to just talk briefly about what it isn't, because I think for some people we've got these preconceived ideas in our head of what it is, and that can just put the barriers [00:06:00] up, the shutters up.
For example, if you've been really abused by somebody and you think, oh, if I forgive them, does that mean that I've got to have this amazing relationship with them and be reconciled? That's immediately gonna make you, um, just. Terrified, I imagine. And you're not gonna hear anything else. So the first thing that I wanna say, forgiveness is not, it's not the same as reconciliation.
You need forgiveness for there to be reconciliation. But reconciliation isn't always appropriate. In fact, sometimes, um, you need distance or a break from that relationship. Some of the other things that forgiveness is not, it's not excusing or condoning a wrong, it's not ignoring an offense or pretending it didn't happen.
It's not canceling the consequences of wrong. So you can forgive somebody, but you can still pursue justice through the courts. They're not, um, mutually exclusive. [00:07:00] It's not about suppressing your feelings. It's not something that only weak people do. And it's not always instant. My only experience, especially at the beginning of this journey, when I first properly learned how to forgive, was that actually it took me a long time to get to that point where I could actually forgive, where I could process what had gone on and was ready to give it up.
So a little bit of my story. I grew up in a Christian home and I must have heard forgiveness talked about every week in church for all of my life, and I thought I understood it. But it turns out that I didn't, and although I grew up in a Christian home, our life was dominated by my mom's eating disorder, which she had from the time I was about two until after I left home.
I do have this permission, uh, her permission to share this with you. Um, but I'm not gonna go into lots of details just to give you enough background. [00:08:00] Um. So this had a massive impact on me because, um, and it was really confusing because at church I was learning about this God of love and freedom and joy and peace.
And at home our life was controlled by mental illness and by anxiety and depression. And that was really confusing. Um, and I, I was really hurting on the inside. People can hurt us in a number of ways, can't they? They can hurt us by what they do, which is an obvious one, um, by what they don't do. So things like, um, maybe as a child growing up and you did something that you were really proud of, like you did well in your exams and the people who are important in your life just didn't even acknowledge it, or there's no words of encouragement.
Um, we can be hurt by what people say and also by what people don't say. And when we're hurt, we can experience a whole range of emotions, disappointment, bitterness, [00:09:00] cynicism, resentment, and that can lead into physical symptoms as well. But the main one for me, I would say, was anger. Because of how my mom's illness affected her, me, the family as a whole, our life.
I was so angry inside. But I'd somehow got this idea that good Christian girls don't get angry. And also you're meant to respect your parents, aren't you? So how bad must I be for feeling angry with my mum because I thought it was wrong to feel anger. I suppressed it. I turned it on on myself, and I became depressed.
Do you know all of this was fairly self, um, subconscious. I didn't realize I was doing it because this was from when I was a small child. Uh, I had no idea how to name my emotions, how to process them, how to do any of that. So I suppressed my anger and I faked all the things that I thought I was supposed to be.
How many [00:10:00] of you can relate to that one? So things all came to a head when I was in my early twenties, and I went to see a Christian counselor. And she wanted me to write down, um, how I'd felt as a child growing up and like just to get everything out on paper. And she wanted me to do this by the next time I came to see her.
So it got to the day of my next appointment and I still hadn't done anything. I was like, I can't do this. And I, I got to the point of thinking maybe I should just cancel the appointment. But then something in me just went, no, don't do that. Have another go. And so I prayed and I said, God, I just need your help to be able to do this.
And then just something unlocked in me and I wrote down all this stuff, just all this, um, anger, bitterness. Lots of very dark stuff that I had just squashed down for years. Uh, a lot of swearing and I'm not a sweary person, all came out on this sheet of paper and I was shocked, to be honest 'cause I hadn't realized it was [00:11:00] there.
Um, and some of you are like how I used to be that when you are hurt, you just turn everything in, you suppress your emotions. Why do we do this? It could be for a number of reasons. Maybe it's the culture that you grew up in, uh, your family culture or your wider culture. Maybe it's learned behavior. Maybe it's too painful to actually admit those emotions.
Maybe you think it's wrong to feel that way, or maybe you think it's disrespectful to have these difficult emotions. Maybe you've not been listened to in the past when you have expressed how you felt. Maybe you've not been validated. But when we do this and when we push it all down, it leads to depression or, um, maybe substance abuse or just turning to other things to find some sort of comfort.
So suppression is one unhealthy way of dealing with stuff when we are hurt. Another unhealthy idea is kind of like the opposite. It's unhealthy expression. [00:12:00] So maybe we lash out physically or verbally maybe we gossip, we go for revenge. We just try to hurt people, ruin someone's reputation. Why do we do this again?
Could be the same sorts of reasons. Maybe it's our culture, it's just what we've learnt. Uh, maybe we've not been taught how to regulate our emotions and actually to, you know, sift through them and process them properly. Or maybe you're a mix of both. I think for me, because I'd become such a pressure cooker with all this stuff, um, stuffed down, not just about my mum, but about everything that when anybody did any like slight little thing to me it was almost, um, like just added that tiny bit of extra pressure that I couldn't cope with.
And it would kind of like explode, but I'd still be trying to control it. So it would just come out in a, um. Just like very frustrated, snappy kind of way at people. So this can lead to, as you're probably well aware, strained [00:13:00] relationships. Um, looking to other things to numb the pain, seeing only the bad in people.
I can think of one particular time when, um, a, a different occasion later on when I, I'd, um, got into unforgiveness again without realizing it, and I could only see the bad about this particular person. Um, yeah. Um, it can also lead to physical symptoms, which I've experienced many times and torment in our minds, which again, big thing for me, very felt very tormented.
And the first step for me in becoming free was when a counselor shared with me this verse from Ephesians, and it said, be angry, yet, do not sin. Do not let the sun go down on your anger and do not give the devil an opportunity. She helped me to realize that anger is not necessarily sin. Some anger can be, but not all anger is.
And in fact, sometimes anger is the righteous is the correct response. Uh, the [00:14:00] healthy response to a situation, as Tim Keller says, you should be angry when you see something good threatening, something bad. No other way round when you should be angry, when you see something bad threatening, something good.
Just yeah, make sure we get that one right. Yeah, so the VI actually records some occasions when Jesus got really angry. There's an occasion in Mark, um, where it says this another time Jesus went into the synagogue and a man with a shriveled ham was there. Some of them, that's the religious people were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus.
So they watched him closely to see what if he would heal on the Sabbath. Jesus said to the man with a shriveled hand. Stand up in front of everyone. Then Jesus asked them, which is lawful on the Sabbath, to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill, but they remain, remain silent. And it says he looked around at them in anger and deeply distressed at their [00:15:00] stubborn hearts.
Said to the man, stretch out your hand. He stretched it out and his hand was completely restored. Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus. So this is an example of an anger that is righteous. It's a good, that's the way things meant to be. So I've got some questions for you to just think on, maybe put in the comments, in what ways do you tend to react when you are hurt?
Why do you react that way? And is there anything that you are hurt about now? So the next thing the counselor got me to do was to write a letter to my mom as I would an adult. So not the, uh, the unfiltered version, not the very dark, angry version. But the more, um, this is how I felt and this is how it affected me to more to start a conversation in our, and in our case to, um, strengthen our relationship.
And, um, my mom was very gracious and we, [00:16:00] we did talk it out and that, that turned out very good. Um, and I thought I'd forgiven her to be honest, and I had mentally, but I'd completely missed one of the key parts of forgiveness. And it felt like, I dunno if you've seen those bungee calls, um, where they've got two hooks on each end and it felt like one.
One end of the cord was attached to my back and the other was attached to my past. And every time I tried to move forwards, I would just constantly get pulled back. Fast forward to about a year later, I came up to Liverpool where I live now, to do a discipleship gap year kind of thing with the church that we are still part of.
And during that time, God began to show me the bit that I was missing. And to look at that we will look at a parable that Jesus taught. It's this one. It's uh, yeah. So Jesus said, therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his [00:17:00] servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him 10,000 bags of gold was bought to him.
The, I just want you to notice that this parable is about settling accounts. It's like an accounting thing, and the amount that this man owed, the king was far more than he was ever gonna be able to pay back. So since he was not able to pay the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt at this, the servant fell on his knees before him be patient with me.
He begged and I'll pay back everything. The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt, and let him go. But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. So if you notice this is a much smaller amount, he grabbed him and began to choke him, pay back what you owe me.
He demanded his fellow servant, fell to his knees and begged him, be patient with me and I'll pay it back. But he refused. [00:18:00] Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told the master everything that had happened.
Then the master called the servant in. You wicked servant. He said, I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to shouldn't. You've had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you in anger. His master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured and ika payback all that he owed. This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
I always think that line near the end about, um. Uh, being handed over to the jailers to be tortured is a slightly shocking verse, but you know what, that is what I experienced. I experienced a tortured mind when I held onto my hurt and didn't forgive. Um, yeah, I just think that's [00:19:00] quite an interesting point.
So what is this parable about in case you've not realized already? The king is representing God and the first servant who owed. So much money he couldn't forgive is like us. It's as though, um, God's got this invoice. I dunno if you can actually, it's just a random invoice to be honest. Um, yeah, it's like we had this massive, massive debt that we couldn't pay, um, before God and just drop that one.
And the message of the Bible is that, um. That God himself came in the form of Jesus to pay off that debt so that debt has this paid in full, written all over it. Which is an incredible thing. Can you imagine how you'd feel if you literally owed somebody so much money that you were maybe on the point of eviction, on the point of losing everything that you'd worked hard for and they, you could see no way [00:20:00] out.
Imagine the desperation that you would feel for that, and then imagine someone coming along and saying, I'm gonna pay that debt in full. Can you imagine the relief, the joy? Uh, do you know this is the good news that, um, of the gospel, the good news about Jesus is that he pays our debt in full. There's a verse in two Corinthians that said he made him who knew no sin to become sin on our behalf so that we might become the righteousness of God.
This is what we kind of sometimes say is the great exchange. It's Jesus swaps all his righteousness, all his amazingness for all our rubbish, our sin. And we get a pretty good end of the deal on this. But you know that there's, there's, um, a theory that a theologian came up with, um, which I, I relate to in this.
And his thinking is that perhaps this first servant didn't [00:21:00] really fully appreciate. The, the forgiveness that he had experienced from the king. So instead of going away feeling like, yes, I'm free, this is amazing, and having gratitude to the king, instead, he heard you've just got a bit more time to pay it back.
Which is why then there wasn't that, um, that freedom in his heart, which is why he would then go and like, try and grab what he could off the people that owed him. And the point of this is that we have been forgiven so much that we need to pass on that forgiveness to others. And I, I know sometimes we can think, oh, I've not really done that much bad compared to so and so.
But I think when we, um, when we experience the conviction of the Holy Spirit, I think we can see. What's in our heart for what it really is when we can see it compared to God's goodness, that's [00:22:00] when we really see, uh, what our hearts are like. So I've got some questions for you again. Is there any uncon confessing in your life?
Is there stuff that you've done that you've buried, that you've not come to God with for forgiveness? Have you fully accepted God's forgiveness or are you still acting as though you've got this massive debt to pay, still trying to earn God's favor? So I've said that this parable is about how God forgives us and to receive forgiveness and how we're to pass that on.
But how do we actually do that? How do we do it so that it's not just from our head, but it's actually from deep in our heart? Well, there's a sheet that I use, which I find really helpful, and it's like an accounting sheet in a sense. And again, I dunno if you can actually read it. So I'll read it out for you.
And if you find it useful, you can make your own at home. So the first column says, who hurt me? And in this column you write [00:23:00] down who hurt you, uh, just as you would in an account of if somebody owed you something. The next column says, what did they do? And in this one I'm very specific, not just a blanket, oh, they, they've upset me, but what specifically?
And all the things that come to mind. And I'd usually do this with the Holy Spirit just to say, holy Spirit, just help me dig out anything from my heart that's just hiding there. And, and he generally just shows like specific incidents that are still bothering me. The next one says, how do I feel about it?
I think one of the keys to actually forgiving from your heart is connecting with how you feel about it. Um, if we skip the emotion bit and just try and do it as a logical exercise, we are actually missing a key part of the fact that, um, when people hurt us, it affects us emotionally. We're talking about, um, what are we talking about, um, [00:24:00] a wholeness.
Um. Soul wholeness, and these are things that affect our soul, aren't they? When we're hurt, the next column says, what do they owe me? This can be a bit more tricky to pinpoint, but for me, and I know for other Christians or you know, other people trying to forgive, this has been an absolutely crucial bit because as this parable shows us when we are hurt.
We always feel like we are owed even if we're not recognizing that's the case. Um, for example, say if somebody has gossiped about you and told lies, you might feel that you are owed a good reputation. You'll feel, you might feel that you are owed, um, respect and trust and these other things. And then the last, um, yeah.
So what I'll do is write all those down and then just ask God. To help me to be able to release this. [00:25:00] 'cause one of the things about this parable with accounting is you write down what you are owed, but then if you're going to, um, forgive, uh, an actual money debt, you, you have to kind of count the cost of that in a sense, don't you?
Um, just as for God, um, in forgiving us, although we don't pay the cost, actually, it's very costly. Because the cost was God himself coming in human form, facing torture, betrayal, um, yeah, his best friends leaving him and then excruciating physical pain. It's although, so yeah, there is a cost, but we don't necessarily pay it.
Sometimes there can be a cost to forgiving somebody. For me, um, with my mom, I, again, I hadn't realized I was doing it, but I was blaming her for all the things that I struggled with back when I was doing this forgiveness stuff. And I realized that to forgive [00:26:00] her meant that I would, that I couldn't blame her anymore, that I had to take responsibility for that.
And for quite a while, I didn't wanna do that, to be honest. And so it took me a while to get to the. To the point where I was like, okay, I'm willing to give this up and I'm gonna take responsibility and God, I'm gonna trust you that you are gonna help me with all of that. So I prayed through, um, each thing that I was hurt about, counting the cost of what does this actually mean to completely release, to forgive and release my mum or, or these other people from the debt I feel they owe me.
And then the last column is my Prayer of blessing for them. It's, it's amazing to get to that point where you can go, do you know what? I've, I've released them. They don't owe me anymore. And I can actually pray for good things for them. I can pray this blessing for them. [00:27:00] So powerful. And you know what? I've experienced so much freedom both from, uh, receiving that from forgiveness from God and realizing that he sees me as righteous, but then also being able to pass that onto other people and not being tortured any longer, but being able just to release that and just go, yeah.
Do you know what? You're forgiven, you don't owe me anymore. And to have that clean slate to be able to write paid in full across the stuff that they owe me. Yeah. I kind of come to the end, I think of what I wanna say, but um, oh no, there was a couple of bits actually, because this is such a big subject. Um, and it does take quite a lot to process.
Sometimes there's some resources which could be really useful for you. Uh, one of them is a book by Jeff Day, which is called Forgive Release and Be Free. There's another book called Boundaries, which I've not talked about today, but which is also quite [00:28:00] key. Uh, and that's by Cloud and Townsend. And there's a podcast on Anger by Timothy Keller, which I think is called Praying Out Your Anger.
Um, he's just got lots of insight, so fabulous. Uh, so yeah, that is it from me now. So I will hand back over to Matt, I think
Conversation Street
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Matt Edmundson: welcome back, uh, first thing to say, uh, thank you. Sweetheart for the talk. Very good. I love talking about forgiveness. I, we've had some text messages come in on the old phones. Um, people struggling to comment on YouTube, so, um, it seems to be, well, I've tried it. We can comment, which is useful. So, yeah, dun and I can comment, so, um, feel free to, to try again.
I, I'm sorry about that. I'm not quite sure what YouTube's playing at. Um, but yeah, I, I did initial, I had an, I did have an. Issues with commenting at first. Yeah. And I just had to refresh it a [00:29:00] couple times and it started to, to work. Okay, so sorry about that, everybody. Um, so yeah, I'll make Conversation Street.
Interesting. But, uh, let's, should we jump into it? Where, where, uh, where should we start? What have you got on your list? I,
Dan Orange: I've got lots of things. I, I, I love this topic and it was, that was brilliant, Sharon. Thanks very much. Really good. Um, isn't it amazing how it. It, it affects our, it affects our lives, obviously, but it just affects so many things about it affects our body and our health.
Yeah. Uh, which I think I, I've definitely experienced that. Um, but then how you explained how it, it escalates into other things. So it may be that we're angry and that anger has come back from just not. Not forgiving, not letting go of, of something. Yeah, that's what, yeah, really struck me. That sort of [00:30:00] cascade of emotions that can come.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's a powerful one, isn't it? Mm-hmm. Was it Oscar Wild that said unforgiveness is like drinking poison and then expecting it to hurt hum the other person?
Sharon Edmundson: I have no idea. I hear that quote a lot, but I dunno who actually said it. I
Matt Edmundson: think it was Oscar Wild. I'm not, no, no. Was it Oscar Wild that said forgive your enemies?
'cause nothing would annoy them so much. I have no idea. I wish that was a bit more Oscar wild, doesn't it? I suppose. Um, but this idea that unforgiveness. Is when we don't forgive somebody, it is like we're drinking poison and expecting it to harm the other person. Yeah. Um, which, well, that makes no sense really.
Um, but you can see why. Well, at least I can see why it is so hard for people to forgive. Right.
Sharon Edmundson: Totally. I mean, that was my experience of be, I think because I hadn't done it then when you first start, it can take, like I said, it took me a long time to get to the point where I was [00:31:00] willing to actually give that up.
And when new things happened after that, it still, it used to take me weeks to forgive something relatively small. Um, really small compared to what a lot of people go through. But the more I've practiced it, the more. The easier it's got. Yeah. And again, like I think I said, some things are much easier, aren't they?
They don't take as much time. Other things where they are so painful and so difficult can actually take a like, um, time beforehand, like processing it with through someone and working out. Um, yeah, what actually am I responsible for? What are they responsible for? Yeah. It can be a lot of process behind it before you get to that point.
Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? And I, I'm curious actually. I, I suppose one of the, the things that I've been asked a lot, and one of the questions I know that I was in my mind when I first became a Christian is, [00:32:00] is forgiveness like a one-time event, like I have forgiven this person. Um. Not you obviously, 'cause you're perfect.
I've never had to forgive you of anything, sweetheart. Um, but I've had to forgive this person, not Dan as well, 'cause he's also awesome. Uh, but so I'm not pointing to anyone in particular. Uh, but I've had to forgive this person and then four months later I find myself having to do it again and I, I can be like, well, I thought I'd forgiven them, maybe I didn't.
Or, um, what's going on there?
Sharon Edmundson: I hear this a lot as well of people saying that you sometimes you have to forgive someone for the same thing over and over again. Like the same incident, not the same type of incident that's happened multiple times. Personally, I think this parable, when you look at, if you cancel a debt, say, um, if we're talking about a money debt, if you've canceled the debt.
You can't then go, oh, you still owe me that money because it's canceled. And I personally think it's the same with forgiveness, that if [00:33:00] we actually properly forgive from the heart and we release them of that debt, they actually don't owe us anymore. So we don't need to forgive them. We might need to remind ourselves that we've forgiven them, which I think is different.
Dan Orange: Yeah, I think, um, it's that reminding, reminding myself, I, I. I had a problem when I was younger. Um, I grew up in a Christian family. Um, my dad's an evangelist. I'd go all around Europe, the uk hearing the gospel all the time. Um, I gave my life to God when I was, I don't know, I can remember where I was about eight, something like that.
I was quite, I was quite young. Um. But sometimes I'd have this i'd, my dad would say, anyone wants to become a Christian. Then come out to the front and I'd go out and I think my dad must have thought, why does he keep, why does he keep doing that? And you know, it [00:34:00] was that sometimes I just had to remember that I'd said yes and God had said yes.
I had to stand on that. And I think that's the same with forgiveness. We've, we've done it and we've just got to stand on that decision and remember it and perhaps write it down that you've done it as well. Yeah,
Sharon Edmundson: I think that's where this sheet is quite helpful because it's a very visual reminder of what you're doing.
So to be able to see it written and then to see it when you have actually, when you know that you are actually releasing, that you are releasing them from the debt to just. Scrub it out. Yeah. Yeah. It's so visual
Matt Edmundson: and it almost becomes like a contract with yourself. Yeah. It's like, this is, this is what I've done.
I sign it, I date it. Um, and I think that is super, super helpful. So yeah, I mean, I think, I think you're right. I think just remembering that you've done that, but also keeping your heart soft and just, I think actually don't just assume why forgiven them. [00:35:00] Therefore, you know, if there is something in your heart, you.
To recognize that and deal with it, not to go off giving them that can't be. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Um, so, uh, the comments seem to be working again now, which is great. So, Ella said such a big topic. Sharon asked a question about knowing who you are, feeling you are forgiven by God, which I thought was interesting.
How do you get to the place where you feel that,
Sharon Edmundson: oh, I don't remember mentioning feeling, um. I think, um, I think I've got different, um, things on this. I think sometimes I, I've had, God, I could feel God's presence and it's like, um, that's great. I much prefer that. Sometimes you, you just have to take it. By God says this, I'm gonna believe it.
Yeah. I might not feel it right now, but he says that, so [00:36:00] I'm just gonna take him at his word and the feelings are not there. Um, I, yeah. So I think sometimes it can be one, sometimes the other.
Dan Orange: I think sometimes it can be like a, literally like a weight lifting off because it's that, that's, it's not just you've, you've said it, but it's also things have clicked in your, in your body and your mind have gone, whoa.
I'm free of that. And sometimes it is, like you said, it's, I've said it, I trust it, and I need to stand on that trust.
Matt Edmundson: You do. But at some point, I think the feelings do come. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, I, what you can't do is wait for the feelings. Right. Um, but sometimes the feelings do come in the sense that, well, quite often, I mean, wouldn't you have.
Actually truly forgiven someone from a biblical point of view. You are. It is like you are released from a prison. Yeah. And you do feel that sense of freedom, um, that comes along with. Forgiveness. Like it's no longer your issue. Like it's no longer your concern. You know, you just, God, [00:37:00] you can deal with this.
I don't, that's
Dan Orange: such a great feeling, isn't it? That's no longer your concern. Like you take it, take so much on Yeah, but like I'm, I'm, I'm, oh no, I don't have to take, I don't need it. I don't need the stress in my life. Yeah. God. No. God, God can deal with it's, yeah, yeah,
Matt Edmundson: yeah. No, absolutely. So I think I, what I do think though is the more you know, you are forgiven.
The more you sense and understand the forgiveness of God, um, in your own lives, the, the more you understand the need for you to forgive, if that makes sense. I think that revelation of that I have been forgiven much. I am the guy that was forgiven a debt of 10,000 bags of gold, which I put in the comments is worth about $7 billion.
Uh, just a few calculations. Um, I'm not the guy that was owed. A few bags of silver, which was about $8,000. Just to give you some kind of comparison on figures, and I think when you walk with Christ and you understand [00:38:00] the gospel and the weight of your sin and what it was, you were actually forgiven.
Focusing on that helps you then to forgive other people. Yeah. If that makes sense. And realizing this is not something that I just have to do in my own strength, but this is something that Grace enables me to do because as I, as I understand God's grace, my, my ability to stand strong in his grace becomes greater, so therefore I can forgive, if that makes sense.
Sharon Edmundson: I also find just on any subject, not just forgiveness, anything to do with the Bible. The times when I read I maybe have a question, or actually studying for these talks is really helpful for me because I do spend, um, normally a lot of time just digging into scripture. And as I, as I look at the passage, I've always got questions and I'm like, okay, let me, what does that mean and what does that mean?
And the more I immerse myself in it. Like it's just stuff starts to come out and it's like, oh wow, this is amazing. And the [00:39:00] more I get into it with an open heart, the more it seems to get deep down into me. And then the more I start to change the way that I think and the way, and then my feelings kind of follow eventually I.
Sometimes quicker than others. Um, yeah. But I do find that really interesting
Dan Orange: and I, I know we, we've, we've just said that the forgiveness, sometimes we have to just say, you know, it's done. But I do also think there is, um, I. A, a learning from it. And as you've forgiven someone, you may, you may learn other things about that situation.
Yeah. And you realize, well, I've, I didn't know that. And, and it can build up, it's like, well, that, that can feel a bit worse. But I've forgiven them for it. And now I've got to do that forgiveness again. You know, it could be, I, I've not been in this situation, but potentially if something horrific happened, you [00:40:00] went to court, you know, you've forgiven them, but they, they still need to see, you know, see justice and, and you find out details about that crime and you realize there's more that I need to, I need to do.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
Dan Orange: And on the flip side with God, I find that I just think he's forgiven me. That's brilliant. And then I learn more and more about myself and go, wow, he's forgiven that too. Like even me, he's done that. You know? It just grows my appreciation for him.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. And that I think is the revelation of God's grace, isn't it?
That's understanding that more and more, uh, Nicola's written in the comments here that, and I'd forgot to mention it at the start today, is Star Wars Day. Oh, yes. Yeah. May the fourth be with you. Um, and of course, interesting. Uh, topic forgiveness. Talk about Star Wars Day. 'cause of course, one of the great redemptive story arcs in cinema is Luke Skywalker and Darth Fader.[00:41:00]
Um, so Anakin becomes Darth Fader 'cause he is all angry and bitter. Uh, but he becomes Anakin again because of the, you know, the, the, the, the sun because of Luke. Um. So, which is I think leads onto a really interesting question. What is the difference then? And neither of you can take this between Yeah. Star Wars question.
I'm, I'm out. No, no, no. What is the difference between, what do you mean you're out? I'm not really a
Dan Orange: Star Wars. He,
Matt Edmundson: Zoe can't put down on screen again. You just need to mute his mic. I'm sorry everybody for comments like that. Um, I will have a word. Um, so the question is, what is the difference between.
Forgiveness and reconciliation.
Sharon Edmundson: Uh, forgiveness is where you are taking account of the debt that someone owes you and releasing them from that debt. Reconciliation is when the relationship is repaired, but if the other person, [00:42:00] um, so forgiveness you can do on your own regardless of what the other person does.
But for reconciliation, it needs both of you to, um. Say sorry for the stuff that you've done. Yeah. To forgive each other and if you have, and to have good boundaries, to have a, a health to it. If you haven't got that, there can't be reconciliation. Yeah. You need both people.
Matt Edmundson: You do. And I think actually forgiveness is not dependent on reconciliation is another thing that I would say.
So if I have wronged you and you have wronged me, which is normally what happens, there's normally, you know, um. Occasionally it's just one person's fault, but there there can be times when it's not. Whether you ask me to forgive you is irrelevant to whether or not I need to forgive you, if that makes sense.
So I may need to ask you for forgiveness, but I definitely need to extend forgiveness to that person, irrespective of whether or not they want [00:43:00] to reconcile. So forgiveness is not performative. It's not based on their performance. It's not based on their actions. It's not based on their personal level of repentance.
It is purely something you are commanded. There's no way around it really. You are commanded in scripture to forgive and that it's as simple as that. You know, forgive your enemy, forgive your enemies. Isn't it just full stop? There's no, there's no conditions there. Um, and so. It's really important to, forgiveness is the start of reconciliation, but reconciliation is not required for, for you to need to forgive.
Dan Orange: Yeah. And that, I was thinking before, before we came here tonight about forgiveness, how it's just, it's an essential part of life and it's essential part for me. It's essential part of marriage. I can, I, I won't be in a marriage. So Lisa tells me, yeah, I won't be in a marriage if I couldn't forgive. And in that [00:44:00] situation, I think that's where you've got to forgive, but you've got to reconcile, haven't you?
You've got to be able to live with that person. Um, and sometimes after, you know, if a marriage is, has broken down, there'll be that, hopefully forgiveness, but that reconciliation just, it doesn't get there. Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. And like. Um, like I said before, it's like if the other, I guess I started with an example of, um, if you are being abusive, if you're in a, an abusive MA marriage, that would be.
A different scenario because I don't believe that the Bible is, um, encourages to, um, allow someone to keep sinning. And if someone is being abusive towards you, they should not be doing that, and we're not to enable that sort of behavior. Yeah. We do need to put a, a line there and to go, actually no, that is not right.
Yeah. Um, but yeah, as long as you've not got an abusive spouse, yeah. Reconciliation is definitely the goal. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: And I think, I mean you've mentioned this [00:45:00] and it's worth highlighting that forgiveness is not necessarily, um, condoning, nor is it. Absolutely. Is it saying that what you did is Okay, case in point, abuse.
Right. Um, where there is abuse, it's not, what the bible is not saying is if you are an abuse, abuse spouse, whether you're an abused husband or an abused wife, the Bible is not saying you have to just keep forgiving that person and just let them. Carry on doing what they're doing, right? Yes. You have to forgive.
But there are situations like that where actually you, I, I mean, we we're not talking necessarily about abuse in marriage. We, we could get into it, I suppose, in one of the live streams, but it's not a condoning, it's not a letting them get away with it. It's, it's not that sort of ideology. What we're saying is your heart is to forgive.
But if it, like you say, if there's abuse. Then something has to be done about that. Yeah,
Sharon Edmundson: because I think the cross as well shows us that God doesn't take [00:46:00] just a very flippant view of the stuff that we do. He sees, uh, wrongdoing as serious enough that he has to come down and. Do something about it. And I think that's how we are to treat that as well.
We're not just to brush over and go, it doesn't matter, or make excuses for somebody. I think we can understand why somebody has, you know, done the things they have done. But I think we're still not to go, oh, that's okay 'cause they've got this going on. It's like, that helps us understand, but actually know this is still wrong.
Yeah. And. That's where the whole accounting thing comes in, isn't it? Yeah.
Dan Orange: God's still a, he's a just God, isn't he? He is a God of justice. Something I learned over Easter was that when, when Jesus died, he said it is finished that, well, it's a phrase in English, but in Greek it's a word called. Tetel, Este Tete Loving your Greek there, Don.
Yeah, I know. Um, fluent bilingual. I'm, [00:47:00] um, but that word means paid in full, and it's a word that they actually use on the bottom of like, if you've got a loan and it's paid off, you write that word. I, I love that. Yeah. That completion. Yeah. No, it's
Matt Edmundson: great. Uh, Nicholas says in the comments, wait, what?
Dan Orange: Sorry. I've watched the, there, like three originals.
I just would stop talking, Dan. You're not gonna help yourself.
Matt Edmundson: Um, uh, forgiving yourself is important. It says here in the comments, uh, agree or disagree.
Sharon Edmundson: Um. I'm not totally sure from a biblical point of view, but I've actually found it useful in practice. So, um, I think, um, there was a few years ago, uh, when our daughter was only small, she's now 18, so yeah, it's quite a long time ago when I, there was this other phrase, uh, time of life I went [00:48:00] through where.
I think I was in a season of life. I was just very, very tired and I'd let some boundaries go and I'd let loads of stuff happen and I'd got really angry again without realizing it. And everything had piled up. Um, and I've forgotten what we were talking about now. Giving yourself Oh yeah. Um. And a friend, and I was really struggling mentally.
I was in that place of being tortured and I was like, I have no idea how to get out of this. And then a friend said to me one day, are you angry? And I was like, oh yeah, I am. And I started writing down all the things I was angry about. A lot to do with church, to be honest. Um, but also I featured quite heavily on the list because I was angry with myself for allowing myself to get to this place again because I, I knew how not to get there and, and there was, so, there was lots of things like that.
So I actually did write myself on the list and forgave myself. But like I say, scripturally, I dunno. What do you think? [00:49:00]
Dan Orange: Are you gonna answer that? Um, I think my instinctive would would be. Yes, you need to, because sometimes you can just keep beating yourself up about it, can't you? It's a bit like saying what, having, having regrets and, and then dwelling on those regrets.
Why didn't I, I do that. Why didn't I do that? You just got to figure yourself. Learn from your mistakes and then yeah, potentially forgive as well. Yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: I think the one person we never need to forgive is God, even though we might feel angry with God because he is perfect, and so he's, I. He's not actually done wrong to us, even though we might feel like that.
So in that case, it might be a case of we need to adjust our thinking or expectations or, um, or maybe actually we need to, it's something in us that we need to repent of rather than,
Matt Edmundson: yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. Forgiving. God,
Matt Edmundson: it is an [00:50:00] interesting one because, um, the Bible doesn't explicitly use this phrase, forgive yourself.
And in fact, when you talk about forgiveness, um, it's talked about in the sense of that person owes me a debt and I need to forgive that debt. So to forgive yourself, you owe a debt to yourself. Yeah, and I think so you can get a, I I think there's like a theological divide on this idea. Yeah. Which
Sharon Edmundson: is why I'm saying like, I dunno biblically, but actually practically I found it useful.
So
Matt Edmundson: yeah, I think what, what people mean by forgiving themselves is actually dealing with. Um, persistent guilt or shame, um, or regret, which actually is forgiving yourself then becomes about receiving god's forgiveness and allowing that forgiveness in. Yeah. Yeah, and I think sometimes. If I'm mad at myself, it's not that God's not wanting to forgive me, it's not that it's, it's more that I'm not allowing him [00:51:00] to extend that forgiveness.
Yeah. Well actually a better way. 'cause you could also argue that God has forgiven me for everything on the cross, so God's already forgiven me. So a better way to put it would be, um, I'm not allowing myself to receive and walk in the fullness of God's forgiveness.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah. I suspect that Dave Connolly might touch on this next week about leaving past things behind.
Yeah. You know, those things, you know, those regrets are things that like that and just being able to leave those and walk into the future.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, I think we will close Conversation Street there. Enjoyed that. Always enjoy talking about forgiveness. I find it deeply challenging. Um, deeply, deeply challenging.
So, uh, thank you so much for joining. Thanks for your comments and your questions, and thanks for persevering with the YouTube comments. Uh, for those. Yeah, some people still
Dan Orange: not able to match, just, uh, Will's just said he wasn't able to, but he agrees with you on forgiving yourself. Good answer.
Matt Edmundson: Thanks, will.[00:52:00]
Uh, that's good. Will knows a lot about the Bible, so it's good. Uh, but yeah, it's an interesting, uh. A topic of conversation and like Sharon said, we are just scratching the surface of a very, very deep topic. So do check out those resources that Sharon mentioned, which was the book Forgive Release, and Be Free by J Day.
Um, it was the Book Boundaries by Henry Cloud, and then there was a podcast by Tim Keller.
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, praying your, an praying out your anger or something like that. Praying out your
Matt Edmundson: anger. So do check out those resources. There's more on the Crowd website about forgiveness. If you just go to the search bar, type in forgiveness stuff will come up.
Um, you've gone into it in more detail as well, on Crowd and, and so on and so forth. So there's definitely more there. I would just deeply encourage you, in closing, if you are a Christian and you, you know, you know. That there is an element of, of forgiveness. You, it's, if you, if you're saying it's not [00:53:00] true, then you know, you may be maybe lying to yourself.
Do you know what I mean? Or, or, or deceiving yourself. But you know, if there's somebody that you have something against, um, and. You, you've, I think by listening to this, you have a duty before God to go and get that resolved. I really do. And I, I don't mean to, you know, condemn anybody, but I haven't got time to pull punches.
So I think it's one of those things that I would definitely encourage you to press in, deal with the pain, deal with the hurt, feel all of that. Use the sheet that, um, Sharon showed you to really work through that. The book Forgive, release and Be Free goes more into that, doesn't it?
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, it, it gives a lot more detail on a lot of things.
Um, it's got examples and real life stories, so yeah, it's really useful, I think. And it's just, it's quite a, a thin book. It's very much based on this parable. Um, but it's just very simple and very clear. Yeah, yeah,
Matt Edmundson: absolutely. It is. So deeply encourage you to go [00:54:00] get involved in that. Uh, Dan, anything from you in closing?
Um, no,
Dan Orange: nothing for me. I, I love that talk. It's brilliant. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Anything from you.
Sharon Edmundson: I don't think so, Neil.
Matt Edmundson: Very good. Well, like Dan said earlier, do join us next week for Crowders. Dave Connolly is coming in to, uh, just carry on this whole conversation around wholeness. I, I'm loving this whole conversation around wholeness because that's just, you know, I.
We just wanna be whole people, don't we? Yeah. Um, I definitely don't enjoy being broken, so it's, it's always nice to get a whole and MedEd up. So, uh, I hope you've been enjoying the series. More information is available on the Crowd Church website, www dot Crowd dot. Church, all the info's on there. You can find out more.
But we are gonna close the live stream now. We are gonna be on Google meets, um, uh, just in just like a minute or two. Once this is closed down, we just need to get that all booted up. Um, Zoe, have you put the link in the. Comments, the links in the comments if you [00:55:00] wanna come join us for that. Go Crowd Church slash meet.
Um, yeah, come join us in. That'd be great to see you. Uh, other than that, thank you so much for joining us. Have I missed anything? You had your microphone, like you were gonna say something. No,
Dan Orange: I
Matt Edmundson: was
Dan Orange: just poised and ready
Matt Edmundson: for nothing. I love it when Dan's poison ready. Uh, but that's it from me. That's it.
From poised and ready. Dan, uh, are you poison ready? I can be. Okay. Uh, that's it from Poison Ready Sharon, thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. We'll see you next time. Bye for [00:56:00] now.