#44 Biblical Motherhood And Why It Looks Different To What You May Think

19 Oct

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Biblical Motherhood And Why It Looks Different To What You May Think

Do you ever feel like women can't win? In some circles, if you're older and not a mum, people look at you a bit funny. In others, if you give up paid work to focus on raising kids, you're wasting your potential. And if you're both working and parenting, you can feel like you're not doing either of them well.

This week at Crowd Church, Sharon Edmundson explored what the Bible actually says about motherhood. And it turns out it's actually quite different from the cultural tug-of-war we're caught in. Whether you're a mother yourself, reflecting on your own mum, or wondering where you fit in all this, Sharon showed us that biblical motherhood is about something far bigger than cultural expectations.

When Culture Sends Mixed Messages

Sharon started by naming the exhausting reality: "We are seen as either being too focused on motherhood or not focused enough, and it can be exhausting."

She shared stories from her own life - friends with complicated relationships with their mothers, including one whose mum loved her but tended to be critical because of her own hurt. Friends who've lost mothers too soon. Friends who are desperate for children but unable to have them. Others who've adopted or fostered.

Sharon also mentioned her childhood friend Jane (not her real name), who was adopted and spent years wondering about her birth mother. Jane would snoop through her parents' bedroom looking for answers about who her birth mother was and why she'd been given up for adoption.

"Whatever your motherhood story looks like," Sharon said, "whether you're honouring the mum who raised you, grieving the one that you wish you had, or figuring out how to be the mum your kids need, God's grace is big enough for you too."

Four Biblical Principles About Motherhood

Sharon walked us through four foundational truths from Scripture:

Motherhood is God's Good Idea

Sharon pointed out something we might miss: "God could have designed humans to just appear, fully formed. No nappies, no sleepless nights, no teenage years. But he didn't. He chose the messy, relational way. Why? Because He's relational."

Right from Genesis, God created male and female and told them to "be fruitful and increase in number." Motherhood wasn't an afterthought - it was central to God's plan from the beginning.

Sharon explained: "God's plan for the world was that each new person coming into it would come from a loving covenant relationship of a father and a mother, each with their own role in the process of creating and bringing up a child."

Even more remarkably, when God wanted to bring salvation to the world, he chose to do it through a mother. "God came to earth as a human through a mother, Mary," Sharon said. "So motherhood isn't just part of his plan, it's central to it, which I find amazing."

Children Are a Blessing, Not a Burden

Sharon referenced Psalm 127: "Children are a heritage of the Lord, offspring a reward from him. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are children born in one's youth."

She acknowledged this can be challenging "when you're hearing it in the midst of poverty or exhaustion or just the sheer relentlessness of parenting. Some days, kids can definitely feel like a burden."

But she explained the deeper meaning: "The word for heritage implies something precious being passed down through generations, while the word for reward suggests wages earned. Children ought to be valued."

The imagery of arrows was particularly striking: "Warriors don't just keep their arrows permanently in their hand. They aim them, they release them, and they trust them to hit their target. Maybe that's saying something about how we're meant to raise kids - not to keep them close forever, but to prepare them and to send them out."

God is Involved and Gives Children Value

Sharon read from Psalm 139: "For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made."

These verses show that it's not only the mother and father involved in creating a new person, but God himself. "There's something sacred about a new life forming inside its mother," Sharon said.

She noted how counter-cultural this was in Roman times, when children were placed near the bottom of the pecking order. "But Christian teaching advocates for the dignity of children, and it was counter-cultural."

Then Sharon made a crucial point: "There's a God-given dignity in motherhood. But it is not the underlying basis of our value or our worth, nor is having an amazing career meant to be the basis of our value. Our value is in that we are knit together by God in our mother's womb, and that we are made in his image. So a woman without children is as valuable as a woman with children."

Motherhood is Important, But Not the Most Important Thing

Sharon tackled a challenging passage where Jesus says that anyone who doesn't "hate" their own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters cannot be his disciple.

"Wait, what?" Sharon acknowledged. "Jesus is telling me to hate people? Even my own children? I thought he was all about love."

She explained: "This passage doesn't mean to literally hate our families. He's using hyperbole to make a point. And that point is that although motherhood is good, it shouldn't be the most important thing in our lives. God is the only one worthy of that highest place."

She added: "If we make children the most important thing in our lives, we're putting them in God's place, and they aren't designed to handle that kind of pressure."

Three Biblical Roles for Mothers

After laying this foundation, Sharon looked at three specific roles mothers play:

A Mother Has Authority Over Her Children

Sharon gave fair warning: "This first one might make you uncomfortable."

She referenced Ephesians 6: "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honour your father and mother, which is the first commandment with a promise."

Sharon was direct: "If you're a parent of small children or teens and you're trying to be their friend, you might be missing part of your purpose as a parent. They don't need you to be their friend. They need you to take your God-given role of authority over them for their good."

But she quickly added that God's way of authority is different: "God's way of doing things is that authority is about serving." She pointed to Jesus, who demonstrated this by washing his disciples' feet and ultimately giving his life for them. "But he wasn't a pushover. You knew who was in charge."

Sharon shared a recent observation: "Not long ago, one of our kids was at the home of another family and was shocked by how the kids talked to their mum. No one seemed to bat an eyelid about it. He reflected that she wasn't being respected, and I think that made him feel a little bit sad."

A Mother Loves With Purpose

Sharon turned to Titus 2, which talks about older women training younger women "to love their husbands and children."

She explained that the Greek word used here is all about fondness and delight. It's got this warmth and tenderness about it. It's a love that nurtures and protects from a place of affection rather than just a self-sacrificing duty.

"As I was in church earlier,” Sharon recalled, “a picture came up on my husband's phone of one of our kids wearing a little giraffe costume when they were younger, not recently. And it just made me - you know, those flashbacks of like, oh, that was just so cute and lovely. And just that warm affection thinking about it."

This type of love mirrors how God loves us. Sharon referenced Psalm 147: "The Lord delights in those who fear him, who put their hope in his unfailing love." She marvelled: "How amazing to think that God delights in us like a mother delights in her children."

She also noted how different this is from previous generations: "Back then, showing affection for your kids was not the done thing. You showed love by providing for them and training them from this place of duty. And that is part of love, it's a good thing, but it kind of misses that warmth that God intended."

A Mother Teaches and Trains Her Children

Sharon asked a pointed question: "Who would you rather learn from? Someone who's not bothered about you or even dislikes you, or someone who loves you unconditionally and delights in you and wants you to do well? The love we just talked about is the foundation for teaching and training."

She read from Deuteronomy 6: "These commandments I give to you today are to be in your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up."

Sharon emphasised that both parents are to be involved in the upbringing, not just mothers. And faith "isn't just for Sundays. It's woven into everyday stuff. Breakfast conversations, car journeys, bedtime chats, and so on."

She shared her own experience: "When our kids were little, we used to have Bible reading and prayer at breakfast. That worked for a time, and then it didn't work. But we gave it a go. But as the verse shows, learning can take place anywhere, just in daily life."

Sharon gave another personal example: "I carried on picking up our youngest from school long after she could have made her own way, because when she - that was when she was most willing to talk. It was when she'd tell me the stuff that had wound her up during the day, usually the teachers. That was a time when we had our most meaningful conversations."

She made an important distinction about protective love: "A mother's job is to teach her children the ways of God in every aspect of life, and that includes how to handle difficult situations and uncomfortable emotions. The protective love that I mentioned before is to protect from actual harm, not difficult emotions."

Sharon shared a concerning trend: "I was talking to a friend who works with kids and their parents in a health setting recently, and she told me she's seeing more and more parents trying to shield their kids from anything uncomfortable, which then leads to kids being unable to handle uncomfortable situations and difficult emotions."

Instead, she suggested, "Difficult situations and difficult emotions are teaching opportunities. If a kid's upset by the loss of a pet, it's an opportunity to teach about how to grieve. If a kid's anxious, it's an opportunity to teach them how to go to God with that anxiety and to ask for help. Our job isn't to remove all discomfort. It's to teach them how to handle it."

When Motherhood Gets Complicated

During Conversation Street, Anna and Jan joined Sharon to tackle some of the trickier questions about motherhood.

Can I Be Both Career-Focused and Faithful as a Mum?

Sharon was honest: "I've purposefully not said you should do it this way or should do it that way, just trying to stick to the principles."

She referenced the woman in Proverbs 31, who has a job and kids, but also has help. "I'm not sure I totally have the answer," Sharon admitted. "I think the key thing is to know what God is asking you to do? Are you doing all the things you're doing because you are giving in to pressure from other people or because of some sort of insecurity? Or are you confident that that's what God's calling you to do?"

Jan shared her experience: "I reduced my hours at various points in my career as the children's ages changed. There was flexibility from my work to organise my family life as well. However, I couldn't have done my job if I hadn't known that God was in it."

Anna added, "I think some of these things are really seasonal, aren't they? Motherhood isn't one season; it's lots of little ones. Life looks very different when you've got toddlers in the home than when your kids are a bit older. It's about knowing the exact season you're in and how much you can manage in that season, and being realistic."

What Do I Do With Mum Guilt?

Sharon got vulnerable here, sharing a story that clearly still affected her emotionally:

"When one of our kids was little, they didn't sleep that well either during the day or at night, and there was a lot of crying. We tried the sleep training methods we'd used with the boys, and it worked really well with two of our kids. But with our daughter, it just didn't work."

She continued: "There was a lot going on. I was so stressed - probably on the point of a bit of a breakdown, to be honest. I really couldn't cope, so I ended up leaving her to cry a lot. For years, I looked back at that going, I don't think I got that right. Have I damaged her? Is she going to be scarred for life? And it would just really bother me."

Then Sharon shared what changed: "I was in church one day and I just felt God say, 'Apologise to her.' I was like, Oh yeah, I could do that. So I went and apologised to her. I think it was only last year. She was like, 'Oh yeah, it's fine.' And I've been able to let it go since then, whereas before that it was just gnawing away."

Her conclusion: "I think we do get stuff wrong, and I think we just need to own up, apologise, and receive that grace."

Anna reinforced this: "Nobody gives you a manual when you leave the hospital. You just learn as you go. So there has to be this kind of grace we have with ourselves - asking God for wisdom, but also just having grace when it goes wrong. Grace for ourselves, grace for your children, grace, accepting that grace from God. There's another day, clean start."

Sharon added another key point: "Teach your children how to forgive, because then any mistakes that you make, they know what to do with it."

How Can Childless Women Live Out Spiritual Motherhood?

Jan spoke directly to this: "First of all, obviously, some people are childless because it's a choice. If it's not by choice, my heart goes out to you. There's, I imagine, a coming to terms with some of that and wrestling with God and coming to a peace about it."

She continued: "It's clear in the Bible that to be a mother is not just to be a biological mother. I think we can be mothers in our eighties to younger women in the church. A 20-year-old can be mothering a teenage girl. It's about giving advice, getting alongside other women, and being a mother in that way - caring, giving time, investing in. That's what being a mother is. It doesn't have to be your biological or your adopted child. It could be a neighbour, it could be a friend."

Anna added: "There are a lot of ways to mother in the world - in the workplace, in the home, in friendship, in the church."

She then recommended Ruth Corden (James Corden's sister), who has a podcast and speaks openly as a Christian about being childless not by choice. "She talks about how she mothers and how she believes God's given her a mother's heart, but she's not got children in her home. She's a social worker and deals with a lot of vulnerable children. That's part of what she believes God's called her to do."

Jan mentioned Mother Teresa as another example: "She wasn't a natural mother, but she was a mother to millions."

How Do I Trust God When Motherhood Feels Hard or Lonely?

Jan shared her own coping mechanism from when her kids were babies: "It used to help me when I was up in the night. My brother was in New Zealand at the time, and I just used to remember that where my brother was, it was lunchtime or something, and people were doing normal things and all that. So I just used to imagine the rest of the world doing things. But that's just me, and that helped me at the time."

She added, "God is always close, even when we don't feel it. It can be very lonely. It's a time when you think over lots and lots of stuff, and at the same time you're very tired and exhausted."

Anna was refreshingly honest: "A lot of motherhood is just a steady slog, isn't it? A lot of mothering is just Groundhog Day. It's just the ordinary, boring, everyday tasks. Clean the hamster, make the dinner, make sure everyone's done their homework, and make sure everyone's ready for school on time. A lot of nagging, a lot of cajoling, a lot of saying the same things like a broken record. It's a bit of a slog, and it can be tedious."

Sharon shared her approach: "I can't remember specifically motherhood, but like our kitchen floor being one of those jobs that just came up again and again. I think being able to be honest before God and just go, 'I'm really not enjoying this right now.' He knows it anyway, so we may as well just be honest about it. But then to get that out and kind of be able to get back to that place of choosing to be thankful even when we don't feel it. So be like, 'Thank you, God, that I have a kitchen floor to clean.' Sometimes that was through gritted teeth."

She added: "Training our thinking back - when the feelings aren't there, we can still have the faith. We can choose the faith to go, 'Okay, this child may not feel like a blessing right now, but God, I believe that this child is a blessing.' And I think knowing that there are seasons, and the season will pass. The season you're in now is not going to be like that forever."

Anna brought it back to the bigger picture: "It's remembering, keeping your eye on the big picture. Sometimes you can be so in the moment that it's just overwhelming or a bit tedious. But actually seeing the bigger picture - what is God doing in my child, but also what is God doing in me through this motherhood journey? A lot of those lessons, they're not fun, but they're really important. You build a lot of character. It shapes your character, it stretches you, and you grow. Motherhood is one of those areas that you really grow in if you are open to God doing that."

How Do I Honour a Dishonourable Parent?

Jan acknowledged: "There can be stress in our relationships with our parents. But I think the fundamental thing is that we are respectful, that we honour them. When you become an adult yourself, you see your parent as just another adult, and you can relate to them a bit more, understand what they've gone through. I think as we mature as their children, it's coming to terms with that's who they are, and they're never going to be that different."

She added practically: "Sometimes it might mean keeping your visits short, having boundaries, protecting yourself. If we allow people to walk all over us or to hurt us, there are ways to stop that from happening."

Sharon pointed to David and King Saul as a biblical example: "Saul was king, but God was like, 'No, you're not going to be king anymore. I'm going to bring in David.' But David wasn't king yet. Saul still was. It's this in-between time, and Saul was just really jealous and angry and trying to kill David."

She explained: "David drew the line. He was like, 'No, you are not killing me. This is not on. There's a line you're not going to cross.' But at the same time, when he had the chance to harm Saul, he was like, 'No, I'm not going to harm this guy because God's put him in this position of authority and he's still in that position.' He wouldn't let other people do that either. So he talked well of Saul, even though Saul was being really awful. But he put the boundaries in. It was this far and no further."

Her advice: "I think that needs wisdom and Prayer. Thank God, okay, what do you want me to do in this situation? How can I both be honouring but also put those boundaries in and go this far but no further?"

The Bigger Picture

During Conversation Street, Anna noted something that resonated deeply: "The thing that really struck me as you were talking, Sharon, was just that whole idea of motherhood being part of God's character as well. We often think of the Father heart of God, and we talk about that a lot because God is thought of as quite masculine, isn't he, in Christianity? But actually, we don't talk about the mothering side of God very often."

Sharon closed with an image from Deuteronomy 32: "Like an eagle that stirs up its nest and hovers over its young, God spreads his wings to catch you and carries you on his pinions."

She reflected: "Just that lovely imagery - when we see motherhood done well, whether that's in ourselves or in other people, just to reflect and go, 'Oh, that's how God is with us. That loving, nurturing, that teaching, encouraging.'"

Anna made a final, crucial point about identity: "Our identity ultimately is in God, regardless of our motherhood status. Our identity is in God - that's our first and our most important identity as his child. I think that's such an important point to make when we're talking about roles like motherhood."

Your Next Steps This Week

Based on what Sharon shared and the discussions that followed, here are some practical steps:

If you're a mother: Ask God what he's specifically calling you to do in this season. Are you doing things out of pressure or insecurity, or because it's genuinely what he's asking?

If you struggle with mum guilt: Be honest with God about where you feel you've got it wrong. Consider whether there's someone you need to apologise to. And then receive God's grace - today is a clean start.

If you can't have children: Ask God to show you opportunities for spiritual motherhood - mentoring, teaching, investing in younger people who need someone to believe in them.

If your relationship with your own mother is difficult: Seek wisdom about boundaries. How can you be respectful while also protecting yourself? What does "this far and no further" look like in your situation?

If motherhood feels like a slog: Be honest with God about the tedious bits. Choose thankfulness even when you don't feel it. Remember that this season will pass, and God is using it to shape both you and your children.

A Question Worth Asking

Sharon's friend Jane eventually found her birth mother years later. It wasn't a neat, tidy story, but as Sharon said, "God's grace was big enough to hold all of it - the pain, the questions, the complicated bits."

Sharon's closing words are worth sitting with: "Whatever your motherhood story looks like - whether you're honouring the mum who raised you, grieving the one that you wish you had, or figuring out how to be the mum your kids need - God's grace is big enough for you too."

What does that grace look like for you today?

# Biblical Motherhood And Why It Looks Different To What You May Think
[00:00:00]
## Intro
Matt Edmundson\`\`\`\`\`: Hello and welcome to Crowd Church coming to you live from Liverpool this Sunday night. My name is Matt Edmundson, and whether this is your first time or whether you've been part of our journey since the beginning, it's brilliant to be with you. We are a community of people figuring out what it means to follow Jesus.
In real life, not the polished, perfect version, but you know, the messy, genuine, brilliant reality of this whole thing called Christianity. So let me give you a little roadmap of what's gonna be happening over the next hour. We'll have a talk last about 20 minutes looking at the topic of relationships, which is the section of our series becoming whole, that we are looking at exploring how Christ makes us whole across every domain of life.[00:01:00]
After the talk, we've got conversation streets. Oh yes. This is where we dig into what you've just heard, and you get to be part of that discussion. So if you're with us live, jump into the comments, share your questions, your thoughts, and your stories. And of course, if you're watching on Catchup or listening to the podcast, then thanks for being part of the Crowd too.
Right? Let's meet your hosts and let's get started.
## Welcome
Anna Kettle: Good evening and welcome to Crowd Church. Uh, I'm Anna Kettle and it's great to be here tonight. Um, I'm joined by Jan Birch, who until earlier this afternoon, we didn't think was coming, so I'm excited to have you here. Welcome, Jan. She wasn't feeling that well, so we weren't sure, but you've made
Jan Burch: it.
I've made it. Thank you. Hi everyone. Hello. Hello. That's it. Hello.
Anna Kettle: Short, but Sweet John. Well, it's good to have you here. Thank you. Um, [00:02:00] so tonight we're carrying on our series, uh, we're talking about, uh, motherhood tonight. Um, so just carrying on our series about, um, yeah. A biblical wholeness. And, um, so I'm excited about this theme and we've got Sharon Edmundson talking to us tonight.
And so I'll pass over to her in a second. But just to remind you all, if you're watching live at home, just to, um, while you're listening to her talk, just um, feel free to post your questions, put 'em in the chat bar and send them through and we will try and unpick them at the end, won't we, John? Yeah. Great.
Well, without further ado, I will pass over to Sharon.
## Talk with Sharon Edmundson
Sharon Edmundson: Hello and welcome wherever you are joining from today. Um, sorry, technical problems already, so, okay. Yeah, just trying to get my notes here. Okay. So, as Anna already said, here at crowds, we're in a series about biblical wholeness, exploring what it means to [00:03:00] be whole in every area of life.
And we've defined wholeness as nothing missing, nothing broken, and we've looked at spirit. Soul body, and we've made a start at looking at relationships, recently focusing on marriage and fatherhood. And today we turn our attention to motherhood. So motherhood is a subject that touches all of us in different ways.
So however our families are currently shaped, each of us has been influenced by the present. Or the absence of a biological mother. And for some, this brings gratitude and joy for others, pain or questions. And for many, a mixture of the two. I remember one, uh, childhood friend who was adopted. I'll call her Jane, though, that's not her real name.
So Jane's adoptive parents were fabulous, but Jane and I often talked about her birth parents. We wondered about her birth mother. Who was she? What was she like? Why had she given Jane up for adoption? And one day Jane was snooping in her parents' bedroom [00:04:00] as children often do, and came across some documents about her adoption.
And she quickly copied down all the details and gave them to me to keep safe. And to me it was this like really exciting mystery that went through my childhood and teenage years, and I wondered if we would ever have the answers to our questions, but more on that later. And I've got other friends with complicated relationships with their mothers, such as a friend whose mom really loved her, but just tended to be critical of her all the time because of her own hurt.
And I've got friends who've lost a mother too soon. Friends who are mothers themselves, friends who've lost children to death or estrangement. I've got friends who are desperate for children, but unable to have them. And other friends who've adopted or fostered. And I'm also a daughter and I'm a mother to three adult children myself.
Can't quite believe that they're adults, but there we go. So sometimes I've done a great job. And other times I've got it [00:05:00] really wrong and I've had to go and apologize. But all these experiences have given me like a little glimpse into the complex emotions and questions that can surround motherhood. So I wonder what is, or was your relationship with your biological mum, did you grow up with her or did you grow up like my friend with someone who took on that role?
Did you get on well with your mom or were things tricky? And what are the effects of that relationship? Relationship on your life now? Wherever you find yourself, whether that's someone who's reflecting on their own mum and their upbringing, or someone who is a mother or hopes to be, my Prayer is that God would speak to you through today's talk, so we'll look at some different cultural views of motherhood, but importantly.
What the Bible has to say. Now, there's a lot from the Bible that I could say, as usual, we've picked this massive subject and just tried to condense it down into a short time. [00:06:00] But I'm gonna look at just, uh, four broad principles of biblical motherhood and then three specific roles and look at how those show something of God's character.
'cause in his book, um, Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes, Kenneth Bailey says this. We know that God is spirit and is neither male nor female. Yet in scripture we are told that the believer is born of God. That's in one John three verse nine. Here, John uses female language to describe the relationship between God and believers.
Similarly, when Jesus addressed God as Father, he was using a male metaphor to help us understand the nature of God. Scripture uses male and female images to enrich our understanding of God. Who is spirit? And thereby beyond male and female. It's quite a long quote. Um, anyway, but so in Conversation Street afterwards with Anna and Jan, we can get into the trickier questions of how this all works when things don't go to plan.
'cause the Bible's [00:07:00] great at giving the ideal the way God intended things to be. But it also gives us so many examples of people whose lives didn't reflect the ideal, but they did reflect God's grace and mercy. And none of us are perfect in either how we relate to our own moms or in how we bring up our kids.
So no matter where you are in your spiritual journey, it's full of faith, full of doubt, or just curious. My Prayer is that this space will be open for you to reflect and for God to speak into your life. So why not grab a notebook and a pen? Uh, write down any thoughts or emotions that come to you, um, as I speak.
So let's start with a Prayer. So, Lord, yeah, we just invite you into, um, our, our lives Now, uh, I pray for each of us, wherever we're at, that you would speak to us about our own relationships with our moms or our relationships with our kids if we are moms. Um, yeah, speak to us Lord. [00:08:00] So. Do you ever feel like women can't win in some circles if you're older and you're not a mom?
Let's face it. People look at you as if you're a bit funny and in others, if you give up paid work and choose to focus on raising your kids, you are seen as wasting your potential and your life. Your work as a mom is seen as inferior to those who develop their career. And if you are both bringing up kids and working or continuing with your career, you can feel like it.
You're not doing either of them well, we were talking about that before we went on air earlier. We can, we are seen as either being too focused on motherhood or not focused enough and it can be exhausting. And of course, between these extremes, there's a wide spectrum of views. Many people are trying to be a bit more honoring now of both those who choose to be mothers and those who pursue other paths as well as those who juggle the two roles.
So let's take a look at how the Bible addresses the topic from motherhood [00:09:00] and what insights it might offer us wherever we find ourselves on this spectrum. So firstly, four broad principles. So principle one, motherhood is God's good idea and part of his plan for humankind. Think about this for a second.
God could have designed humans to just like appear. Fully formed, no nappies, no sleepless nights, no teenage years. But he didn't. He chose the messy relational way. Why? Because he's relational. The first book of the Bible says this in Genesis, so God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God. He created them, male and female.
He created them. God blessed them and said to them, be fruitful and increase in number. Fill the earth and subdue it. So we see, um, him create, uh, we see God create a man and a woman, and the very first instruction he gives them is to [00:10:00] multiply and be fruitful. In other words, go and have kids. So motherhood is God's good idea and part of his design.
So God's plan for the world was that each new person coming into it would come from a loving covenant relationship of a father and a mother, each with their own role in the process of creating and bringing up a child. So he created this really relational way to both bring children into the world and to bring them to maturity because he's a loving, committed, relational God.
But here's where it gets more interesting. So we've also seen in the book of Genesis how human beings turned away from God and we started doing things our own way, just leaving God out. Um, and our relationship with him became broken, but he had a long-term strategy to make a way for us to be back in relationship with him.
And a key part of that plan was motherhood. [00:11:00] How you may ask. Well, in Genesis we see a prophecy. God gives that one day a savior would come through a woman as Christians. We believe that that woman was Mary, a virgin at that time, and the savior is Jesus Christ. So I know that a virgin birth sounds farfetched, but if you look out to, to space and imagine God creating all that vastness, it's really not a big deal for him to create one baby without a human father.
So God came to earth as a human through a Mother Mary. So mother isn't just part of his plan, it's central to it, which I find like amazing. So principle two children are, are a blessing and not a burden. Psalm 127 says, children are a heritage of the Lord. Offspring, a reward from him, like arrows in the hand of a warrior, and children born in one's youth.[00:12:00]
Scripture consistently, um, presents children not as burdens or accidents, but as a heritage and a reward. Now I know that's a challenge, um, when you're hearing it in the midst of poverty or exhaustion or just the sheer relentlessness of parenting. Some days kids can definitely feel like a burden, but here's what the Hebrew is getting at.
The word for heritage implies something precious being passed down through the generations. While the word for reward suggests wages earned, children ought to be valued. And then there's the bit about, um, arrows in the hands of a warrior. Warriors don't just keep their arrows permanently in their hand.
They aim them, they release them, they trust them to hit their target. And maybe that's saying something about how we are meant to raise kids, not to keep them close forever, but to prepare them and to send them out. So this all challenges [00:13:00] one of the modern views that children are just obstacles to personal fulfillment or to career adv advancement.
But it also challenges when we're tempted to see children as a burden rather than a gift. So principle three, God is involved and gives children value. Psalm 139 says, um, and this is I think, a beautiful psalm, and this is just a small portion. It says, for you are, um, for you created my inmost being you knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made. Now, I know this is poetry, but the poetry in the Bible points to deep truths, and these verses show us that not only the mother and father involved in are involved in the creation of a new person, but also God himself. There's something sacred about a new life forming inside its mother.
In the broader Roman context of [00:14:00] Jesus' time, children were placed near the bottom of the pecking order and they only gr um, gained any value as they grew older. But Christian teaching advocates for the dignity of children, and it was counter-cultural and led to the gradual protection for children after Jesus' time.
So there's, um, a God-given dignity in motherhood. But it is not the underlying basis of our value or our our worth, nor is having an amazing career meant to be the basis of our value. Our value is in that we are knit together by God in our mother's womb, and that we are made in his image. So a woman without children is as valuable as a woman with children.
So principle four, motherhood is important, but it's not the most important thing. Have you ever heard someone say that family is the most important thing in my life? Or maybe you've said it according to the Bible. Family is very important. It [00:15:00] says that God adopts us into his family, but it also says this, um, if anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father, mother.
And wife and children. And brothers and sisters, yes. And even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Wait, what? Jesus is telling me to hate people. Even my own children. I thought he was all about love. You know, this passage doesn't mean to literally hate our families. He's using hyperbole to make a point.
And that point is that although motherhood is good, it shouldn't be the most important thing in our lives. God is the only one worthy of that highest place. Motherhood's important, but it's not meant to be more important to us than God himself. And if we make children, the most important thing is in our lives, we're putting them in God's place and they aren't designed to handle that kind of pressure.
So we look at, um, we've looked at four principles. [00:16:00] One was motherhood is God's idea and part of his plan. Two children are a blessing and not a burden. Three, God is involved and gives children value. And four, motherhood's important, but not the most important thing. So what does biblical motherhood actually look like in practice?
Let's talk about three roles and fair warning. The first one might make you uncomfortable because as role one, I've got a mother is to be in authority over her children. Ephesians six says this, children obey your parents in the Lord. For this is right, honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with a promise.
That it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth. Now, I know that authority is a bit of a loaded word these days, and for good reason because we've all seen it abused, haven't we? But here's the thing, kids actually need [00:17:00] parents to be parents, not just friends. They've got friends.
What they need is someone who loves them enough to set boundaries to say no and to guide them even when it's hard. Um, love is not just love in the Bible. Different relationships have different types of love and different roles and boundaries. And the mother child relationship is not primarily a friendship, it's of leadership.
Uh. So if you're a parent of small children or teens and you're trying to be their friend, you might be missing part of your purpose as a parent. They don't need you to be their friend. They need you to take your God-given role of authority over them for their good. And that does change an alter over time.
But the basic principles the same. And many times in society, and sadly in church too, we've seen those in authority get a bit of a power kick, and the role becomes about people serving them and making them feel good. But that's not how authority works in God's [00:18:00] kingdom. Jesus said this on the matter. Um, you know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles Lord, it over them and their high officials exercise authority over them, not so with you.
Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be a slave of all. For even the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many. So God's way, God's his way of doing things is, is that authority is about serving.
And Jesus demonstrated this himself by taking the place of a servant with his closest followers, even like washing their feet. And ultimately he gave his own life for them, but he wasn't a pushover. You knew who was in charge. And in relation to your own mom, how is your attitude? Is it one of honor or something else?
If you, if you are a [00:19:00] mom and you have children, do you correct them if they're not respectful to you or do you let them get away with it? And not long ago, one of our kids was at the home of another family and was shocked by how the kids talked to their mom. And no one seemed to bat an eyelid about it.
He reflected that he was, uh, that she wasn't being respected, and I think that made him feel a little bit like sad. Um, yeah. So roll two. Is loving with purpose. Titus two says, likewise teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live. Not to be slanderous or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.
Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children. Um, I think I've already said that. Um, in English, we just have the one word for love and we use it for everything. Everything from loving chocolate to a family member to a love interest. But the Greek and the Hebrew of the Bible are different.
There are different words to talk about, different kinds of love. [00:20:00] And the Greek word here is all about fondness and delight. It's got this warmth and this tenderness about it. It's a love that nurtures and protects from a place of affection rather than just a self-sacrificing duty. Even the design of a mother's body reflects this from conception.
A baby is nurtured and protected in its mother's womb. Now it's possible to love someone without liking them. We possibly all have those people in our lives, but I believe we all crave a love that kind of delights in us. Um, as I was in church earlier, um, a picture came up on my husband's phone of one of our kids wearing a little giraffe costume when they were younger, not recently.
And it just made me like, you know, those flashbacks of like, oh, that was just so cute and lovely. Um, and just that like warm affection, thinking about it. And this is, this type of love mirrors one of the ways that God loves us. Psalm 147 says, the Lord [00:21:00] delights in those who fear him, who put their hope in his unfailing love and the fear we're talking about here.
It's not that being scared sought because you know you've got somebody horrible. It's this reverential, awe, and deep respect. It's about recognizing God for who he is. How amazing to think that God delights in us like a mother delights in her children. And this type of love is also very different to the love that parents showed when my, when my parents were little back then showing affection for your kids was not the dumb thing.
You showed love by providing for them and training them from this place of duty, and that is part of love. It's a good thing, but it kind of misses that warmth that God intended. Um, Psalm 37, I've got loads of verses today. Um, says, take delight in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart.
So it's like delight breeds delight. God delights in us and we are to delight in him. So we're [00:22:00] starting from this place of delight, nurture and protection. But we don't stop there. There's more. So role three is a mother is to teach and train her children. Who would you rather learn from? Someone who's not bothered about you or even dislikes you or someone who loves you unconditionally and delights in you and wants you to do well?
The love we just talked about is the foundation for teaching and training. Deuteronomy six says These commandments I give to you today. Uh, I give to you today are to be in your hearts, impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up, tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.
These verses show that both mother and father to be involved in the upbringing of their children. In the past, in the UK long ago, it was seen as just the mother's job to bring up the kids and the father's job to go out to [00:23:00] work. And the father's just like no kids, is your, your work. Don't bother me. But these verses show that it's both mother and father together are to be involved in teaching and training their kids.
And the faith isn't just for Sundays. It's like woven into everyday stuff. Breakfast conversations, car journeys, bedtime chats, and so on. So when our kids were little, we used to have Bible reading and Prayer at breakfast. And that worked for time and then it didn't work. Uh, but we gave it a go. Um, but as the verse shows, learning can take place like anywhere, just in daily life.
And I carried on picking up our youngest. From school long after she could have made her own way because, um, when she, that was when she was most willing to talk, it was when she'd tell me the stuff that had wound her up during the day, usually the teachers. And, um, that was a time when we had our most meaningful conversations.
But for other people, it might be actually making your kids get to school and back on their, their [00:24:00] own is, that's a good thing because it, it's training them for independence. So. Yeah, you need wisdom, don't we? Um, Proverbs one says, listen my son to your father's instruction and do not forsake your mother's teaching.
They are a garland to grace your head and a chain to adorn your neck. A mother's job is to teach her children the ways of God in every aspect of life, and that includes how to handle difficult situations and uncomfortable emotions. So the pre protective love that I mentioned before. Um, is to protect from actual harm, not difficult emotions.
Um, I was talking to a friend who works with kids and their parents in a health setting recently, and she told me she's seeing more and more parents trying to shield their kids from anything uncomfortable, which then leads the kids being unable to handle uncomfortable situations and difficult emotions, difficult situations, and like.
And, and [00:25:00] difficult emotions are teaching opportunities. So if a kid's upset by the loss of a pet, it's an opportunity to teach about how to grieve. If a kid's anxious, it's an opportunity to teach them how to go to God with each anxiety and to, um, like to ask for help. Our job isn't to remove all discomfort.
It's to teach them how to handle it. It's to say, yeah, that feels rubbish. Let's talk about, uh, talk about it and find what God says about that. Let's pray about it together. So I remember Jane, the friend I mentioned at the start, snooping through her parents' bedroom looking for answers about her birth mom.
Well, years later, after we'd like lost touch for ages, she actually found those answers. She track down her biological family. She met her mom who had been young and unwell and unable to cope. She met her siblings that she never knew she had. It wasn't a neat. Tidy story, but it was her story and God's grace was big enough to hold all of it.
The pain, the [00:26:00] questions, the complicated bits. So whatever your motherhood story looks like, whether you are honoring the mom who raised you, grieving the one that you wish you had, or figuring out how to be the mom your kids need, God's grace is big enough for you too. And hopefully now we can get into some of those nitty gritty, more complicated situations.
Not sure. I'll hand over to Anna.
## Conversation Street
Anna Kettle: Wow. Thanks Sharon. There was like so much packed into that. I know, I know. Motherhood. I, I love that. Um, the thing that really struck me actually as you were talking was just that whole idea of like, motherhood is kind of part of God's character as well. Like we often think of the father, heart of God and Yeah, God as the father.
And we talk about that a lot, I think. 'cause, you know, God has thought of us quite masculine, isn't he in, in Christianity like God the father and. Jesus' son, but actually we don't talk about the mothering side of who, who got us very often. So I find that [00:27:00] fascinating. But yeah, the whole talk so much in there.
What did you think, Jan?
Jan Burch: Yeah, I, I agree. Um, there was, you know, the, the bits that I really enjoyed or stood out was just about how relational God is, um, what, what Sharon said at the beginning about. You know, God could have just made humans appear. Um, but he didn't, and even Jesus himself was born naturally.
Um, you know, so I, I just love the fact that God above all else is relational. Yeah. Hmm.
Anna Kettle: Well, we've had lots and lots of, um, comments and questions coming through you tonight, which is great. So I'm just scrolling through picking a couple out, um, that we can discuss this, um, has come up a lot. Um, so someone's asked, can I be both career focused and faithful as a mom?
How do you do that? How do you get that work life motherhood balance? Mm-hmm. Have you got any thoughts, Sharon?
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, I've, I've purposefully [00:28:00] not said. You should do it this way or should do it that way of just trying to stuck to stick to the principles. But in, um, there's the woman in Proverbs 31 who's held up as like this amazing wife and mother.
And she, she has a job and she's got kids, but she also has help. So she has people helping her with that. Um, I'm not sure that I totally have the answer. I think. I think the key thing is to know what is God asking you to do? Are you doing all the things you're doing because you are giving into pressure from other people or because of some sort of insecurity?
Or are you confident that that's what God's calling you to do? And I think if, if it's what God's calling to you to do, then he can give you the grace. But I think. Then that does take like working that through and K and saying, okay, God, what does that actually mean? Then what does that look like? And not just, I know in the past, in different situations, I've got the general direction from God and then run off in that direction, but not actually asked [00:29:00] him about, okay, how do I actually do this?
So I've kind of left him back there and run off and done my own thing. And then it's like becomes doing it in your own strength. In own strength. So yeah, I think it's. Know, know that you are doing what God wants you to do as much as you can. Do, you know, we can ask him. Um, yeah, checking your motives but then asking for God's grace, uh, in every aspect of that.
Have you got any other thoughts on that? Well,
Jan Burch: both Anna and I, um, have been, moms who have worked as well, have had careers, um, and I think we both. Probably would, um, say that it's, it is a juggling act at times, but I don't think either of us would, um, be able to do either. Well, if it, if we hadn't known what God's plan was.
Um, I, I reduced my hours, [00:30:00] um, at various points in, you know, in my career, um, as the children ages, you know, uh. Changed. Um, so, you know, there was a flexibility from my, my work, um, you know, to, um, you know, organize my family life as well. Um, however, um, you know, I couldn't have done my job if I'd not known that God was in it.
Hmm. Um, you the same Anna?
Anna Kettle: Yeah. And I think some of these things are really seasonal, aren't they? Yeah. Like that's a really good point you made, John, because I think, you know, motherhood isn't one season. Yeah. It's lots of little ones. Like life looks very different when you've got toddlers in the home.
Yeah. To when your kids are like a bit older, aren't my son? Ben's 10 now, but then it looks like all different again when they become teenagers and they're moving towards adulthood and I think, yeah. I think it's about knowing the exact season you're in. Yeah. And how much you can manage in that season.
And being [00:31:00] realistic, like, I know I can work, um, uh, but you know, I'm not, I'm going to do motherhood well, I'm going to do my best that I can at work, but I'm not taking on the most difficult job on earth. No. You know, I'm realistic about what kind of job I can do in this season of life if I also wanna be present.
My son home. It's close, of course. And being a good mum too. And I think for me, there's definitely times I'm the same where I've not taken the promotion, I've not pushed on in my career. 'cause I've thought I'll do that later. Right now I wanna be around my son as well. Yeah. And that would swallow up too much of my time.
So it is a juggle and it is a balance. Yeah. And I think you're both right. It's really about being quite in tune with the Holy Spirit and listening to God about. What's right and, and what he's asking for you. And, and there's grace for every season, isn't there? Mm-hmm. This kind of links into another question that's come through, which is, what should I do with mum guilt or failure and [00:32:00] regret that I felt as a mum?
And I think it links in because I think mum guilt is a really real thing, isn't it? And I, I don't know a mum that doesn't feel mum guilt about going to work or about just Yeah. Times where they've got it wrong. Yeah, what do we do with that? Like, do you have any thoughts, Sharon?
Sharon Edmundson: Yeah, I've got an example from recently, actually.
Well, it's kind of long-term and recent in that, um, when one of our kids was little, they, they didn't sleep that well either during the day or at night. And there was a lot of crying and we tried the sleep training methods that were done with the boys that I've given it away now, who it was. Um, um, yeah, and the sleep training methods we'd used with two of our kids worked really well, but.
With our daughter. It just didn't work and quite a few times, and I, it was a time there was a lot going on. I was so stressed. In fact, I'm probably on the point of. A bit of a breakdown to be honest. And um, I was like, I really couldn't cope. So I [00:33:00] ended up leaving her to cry a lot and I, for years, I look back at that going, I don't think I got that right.
Have I damaged her? Is she gonna be scarred for life? And it would just really bother me. Like every now and then, it would just really, really niggle. And then I was in church one day and I just felt God say apologize to her. I was like, oh yeah, I could do that. So I went and apologized to her. I think it was only last year.
Um, and um, she was like, oh yeah, it's fine. And uh, and I've been able to let it go since then. Whereas before that it was just like gnawing away. So I think we do, we get stuff wrong. And I think we just need to own up, apologize and receive that grace. Yeah. Yeah. Getting that emotional thinking about it.
Anna Kettle: Yeah. I, I think you are right. And motherhood, like any, you know, you learn on the job. No one teaches you how to be a mother when you, you know, get a baby or whatever. You know, you're sort of learning on the job. Yeah. And you know, I was chatting to my friend Laura, who's who we know from church, and, [00:34:00] um, she's about to become a mom in a few weeks time.
She's adopting a little. Baby girl. And um, yeah, and I just think she keeps asking me all these questions like, how do you know how to do this? How do you know? I'm like, nobody gives you a manual when you leave the hospital either. Like you just learn as you go. Right? Yeah. And so there has to be this kind of grace we have with ourselves, which is like asking God for wisdom, which I think came across really strong in your, in your, in your talk, Sharon.
But also just having grace when it goes wrong. Grace for ourselves. Grace for. Your children. Yeah. Grace, you know, accepting that grace from God. There's another day clean store. Absolutely. It's like everything in life, isn't it? You're gonna make mistakes.
Jan Burch: I'm very glad I'm not the first child in our, in our family.
I was the, uh, the second, so my brother had all the, he was the Guinea pig.
Sharon Edmundson: I'm
Anna Kettle: an oldest
Sharon Edmundson: child. I can't say that. Yeah. I think, I think another key thing is teach your children how to forgive because then any mistakes you can that you make, they know what to do with [00:35:00] it.
Anna Kettle: Yeah. I think it's really healthy though.
You know, when you talk just then about apologizing to your daughter, I think that's really healthy. I want my son to see that. Me and his dad don't always get everything perfect. Mm-hmm. But we hold our hands up when we get a something wrong, we say, sorry, we keep short accounts, we learn to forgive. You know, those things can be teachable moments, can't they?
If you, if you make death. Definitely. So there was another, um, great question, um, that came through. There was a few actually. Um, this one is how can childless women live out spiritual motherhood? Like, this is one that's really close to my heart because I've worked with a lot of women who are childless or have struggled to have the families that they want.
So, I mean, have either of you got thoughts on that?
Jan Burch: Well, you know, um, first of all, obviously some people are childless because they, it's a choice. Yeah. Um, so I think this is not by choice, like reading [00:36:00] from the, but yeah. If it's not by choice, then you know, really. You know, my heart goes out to you. Um, so there's, I imagine a, a coming to terms with, with some of that and, you know, wrestling with God, um, and coming to a, a peace about it.
I don't know, you know, I, I don't know how long that takes or if you ever get over it, but I think, um, it's clear that. In the Bible that God has more than, you know, to be a mother is not just to be a, a biological mother. Um, I think we can be mothers in, in our eighties to younger women in the church. You know, a a 20-year-old can be mothering, um, you know, a teenage girl.
So I think it's about giving advice. I think it's about getting alongside [00:37:00] other women. Um, and being a mother in that way, as in caring, giving time, investing in, um, that, that's what being a mother is. It doesn't have to be your biological or your adopted child. It could be a neighbor, it could be a friend.
You know,
Anna Kettle: I think you are right. There's like a lot of ways that you can be a mother in the world, isn't there to people like you, like you say. It can be a natural mother, but actually that kind of mentoring, discipleship, yeah. Being a spiritual mother to people, like, I think that's a lifelong call that we all have as women and we can all pick up, and I think the seasons of life where maybe your parenting children in your own homes, but may, but maybe you're not.
But also, you know, older women or much younger women. You know, I, I was a spiritual mother to people. Who were you? New Christians in my twenties, long before I became a physical mother. Yeah. [00:38:00] I, I, I believe, and, um, I, I think it's, yeah, I mean there's, there's a lot of ways you can mother, there's a lot of ways to mother in the world aren't there, like in, in the workplace, in the home, in friendship.
In the church. I, I mean, I, I think someone who's really inspirational, if you want to know more about this subject is, um, know the, uh, comedian and actor James Cordon. Oh yeah. So his sister, Ruth Cordon, she has podcast and she's childless not by choice. Um, they went. Through years of infertility, her and her husband.
Um, but she speaks very openly and she's a Christian. Um, she speaks very openly about being childless, but having a mothering heart, but empty arms. And she, she talks quite like fluently about this, and she talks about it a lot on her podcast and on her social media feeds. If, if you look for a record Yeah, it's good to know.
And it's, but she's really inspirational and she talks about how. She mothers and how she believes God's given her a mother's heart, but she's not got [00:39:00] children in her home, but she's the social worker and she deals with a lot of vulnerable children. Um, so that's part of what she believes God's called her today.
Um, but yeah, check out her stuff if you're interested in that subject as well. Just to,
Jan Burch: just thinking there, you know, um, the very famous mother Theresa, who wasn't actually a, a, you know, a physical mother, a natural mother. But she was a mother to millions. So many. Yeah. Wasn't she? So, um,
Anna Kettle: yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Um, another question, um, is how do I trust God when motherhood feels hard or lonely? Whether that's sleepless nights or estranged children when you're older, like how do you manage those times when mothering is just really hard or lonely or just a bit of a
Jan Burch: slog? It is, I mean, mine are, are grown up now and my youngest is, uh, 16, nearly 17.
And it's, it's, you know, I [00:40:00] don't remember everything that I went through. It's, um, you know, it's good that I don't sometimes, um, I mean, at the time I got through it, but, um, it used to help me when I was up in the night. Um, just a little tip. Um, my brother at the time when I was, um, having my, when my kids were babies and I'd be up in the night feed and I just used to remember that in New Zealand where my brother was, it was lunchtime or something and people were doing normal things and all, all up.
So I just used to imagine or phone my brother, um, in the middle of the night and just remember what the rest of the world is doing. But that, that's just a, that's just me. And that helped me at the time. But, um, you know, God is always close, even when we don't feel it, he's there. Um, and it can be very [00:41:00] lonely.
It can be, um, it's, it's a time I think when you're feeding in the middle of the night or where, you know, you think over lots and lots of stuff. I did anyway. Um, and, and at the same time, you're very tired and exhausted. So I think because of that, you, you know, you're at a low E anyway in the middle of the night, but you know, God is close.
What would, what would you say, Anna, Sharon,
Anna Kettle: I mean, I feel like, as well as, as well as that, I think like a lot of motherhood is just a steady slog, isn't it? It's just. I feel like a lot of mothering is just Groundhog Day. It's just the ordinary, boring, everyday tasks. Hamster on a wheel. Yeah. Literally we've got a hamster in a home.
Clean the hamster, make the dinner, make sure everyone's done their homework, make sure everyone's ready for school on time. Like it's a lot nagging, A lot of like cajoling, a lot of [00:42:00] like saying the same things, like you're a breaking record. Like a lot of mothering is just the same old. Yeah, not same old, same old, but like it's a bit of a slog and it, and it's, it can be tedious.
It's not, it's not all sexy and glamorous is it? Like, what? What do you do? What do you think, Sharon? What do you do with like those? Well, most of motherhood, which is like. It's just the small moments, isn't it? Oh yeah.
Sharon Edmundson: I can't remember. Not specifically motherhood, but like our kitchen floor being one of those jobs that just came up again and again and just kind of going,
Matt Edmundson\`\`\`\`\`: ah, I hate this floor.
Sharon Edmundson: And getting to that point and then kind of going, oh, like getting that out. I think being, being able to be honest before God and just to go, I'm really not enjoying this right now. And to know that he knows it anyway, so we may as well just be honest about it, but then to. Like get that out and then kind of be able to get back to that place of choosing to be thankful even when we don't feel it.
So be like, thank you God, that I have a kitchen floor [00:43:00] to clean. And sometimes that was through GR teeth. Thank you for that. Um, yeah, so I think getting that, talking it out with God, but then training our thinking back when, when the feelings aren't there, we can still have the faith, like we can choose the faith to go.
Okay. This child may not feel like a blessing right now, but God, I believe that this is a, this child is a blessing or, um, yeah. And I think knowing that there are seasons and the season will pass, that the season you're in now is not gonna be like that forever. Also. Very helpful.
Anna Kettle: Yeah. That, that's really true.
And I think it's, you know, it's remembering, it's keeping your eye on the big picture as well, isn't it? Like sometimes you can be so in the moment. That's just, yeah, a bit overwhelming or a bit tedious or, but actually seeing the bigger picture, like I always feel like, you know, what is God doing in my child, but also what is God doing in me through this motherhood [00:44:00] journey?
And I think a lot of those lessons, they're not fun, but they're really important. Like we build a lot of character. You know, this morning at church we're talking about endurance and perseverance and patience. Gosh, like I, I parented. Little boy with a DHD and I feel like I am learning patience every day, every minute of every day at the moment.
But it's good. It, it shapes your character, it stretches you, you grow. And I think motherhood is one of those areas that you really grow in if you are open to God doing that throughout. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jan Burch: Yeah, I agree. Um, there've been times, you know, as soon as mine used to come home from school, there'd be, mum, what's tea?
And I'd go, are you hungry again? And they'd go, yeah. And I'd be like, so the thought of, you know, what, what are we gonna cook? What am I gonna cook? And oh my word. Um, but you know, the, the, the fun I've had as well as a mom. Just the laughter. And I, I got [00:45:00] banned from reading bedtime stories because I used to make them laugh so much and make them wake up and, um, my husband banned me from doing it, so, 'cause he used to talk like that.
But I, I had too much pride and I wanted the story to be really good. So, uh, I used to make them laugh, um, and then yeah, suffer as a couple and they were hit, hyped up
Anna Kettle: and not ready for bed. Right.
Sharon Edmundson: Jan, I want you to read me a story now. Yeah. I used to do all the voices and I wanna experience go around a
Jan Burch: babysitter sometimes.
Anna Kettle: Um, this is a really good question that's come through actually. Um, how do you honor. A dishonorable parent or, or a parent relationship where it's maybe a bit difficult. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? Like, I don't have any personal experience. Like I, you know, I'm blessed to have a really great relationship with my mom, but I know for a lot of people that's really, it's really tough when you relationship's not, [00:46:00] not that great with a parent.
Jan Burch: I, um, have got a good, a very good relationship with my mom. My dad passed away several years ago, but there was a. Towards the end of his, his before he died. Um, there was a few arguments here and there and disagreements. I, I wasn't living at home at the time, but, um, you know, there can be, there can be stress in, in our relationships with our parents.
Um, but I, I think the fundamental thing is that we are respectful, that we honor them. The interesting thing that happens is. When you become an adult yourself, you see your parent as another, just like another, another adult, and you, I guess, you, you have a bit more, you can relate to them a bit more. You can understand what they've gone through.
Um, but I just think, you know, come into terms with who they are. They, [00:47:00] they may, you may have a parent that's never been greatly affectionate or. Um, hasn't always encouraged you, but I think there comes a, as we mature as their children, I think it's coming to terms with kind of that's who they are and then they're never gonna be that different.
And sometimes it might mean, you know, keeping your visits short, um, you know, having boundaries, protecting yourself. Um, I think that's very important. Um, you know, if we allow people to walk all over us or to, um, hurt us, you know, if we, if we sit there and allow that, then I think there are ways to stop that happening.
So, yeah, some of our parents have been great and others aren't. Um, but God, God is always [00:48:00] faithful and he'll help you with that.
Sharon Edmundson: I, I think there's, um, a great example in the Bible of, um, someone being respectful of someone's position of authority, but at the same time drawing a line. And that's, um, king, Saul and David obviously not talking about motherhood here, but the principal's the same.
So for those who don't know this story, so that Saul was king, but I think at this point he'd, um, because he. Wasn't doing well. God was like, no, you're not gonna be king anymore. I'm gonna bring in this other guy David. And David actually wasn't King yet. Saul still was. So it's this InBetween time and um, Saul was just really jealous and angry and was trying to kill David.
So David drew the line. He was like, no, you are not killing me. This is, this is not on. There's a line, you're not gonna cross it. But at the same time, when he had chance to harm Saul, he was like, no, I'm not gonna harm this guy, because God's put him in this position of authority and he's still in that position.[00:49:00]
Um, and he wouldn't let other people do that either. So he talked well of Saul, even though Saul was being really awful. But he put the boundaries in. It was like this far and no further. Yeah. And um, and I think that needs wisdom. And again, Prayer. Thank God. Okay, what do you want me to do in this situation?
How can I both be honoring, but also, like Jan said, put those boundaries in and go this far, but no further.
Anna Kettle: Yeah, I think that's really, really good advice. Um, yeah, I don't really have anything to add to that. I think you guys covered that one pretty well. Um, a slightly lighter question. Um, this one came through from Matt Crew.
Um, it says. What is your most embarrassing story from being a mother? Any thoughts?
Jan Burch: I dunno if I could even mention it has to be like, you know, broadcast. Uh, yeah. Okay. I'll let you go first. I imagine I don't have one. Okay. I've got loads. [00:50:00] I mean, probably day, I just have to think for you. I, when I was pregnant with my second child, I remember, um, the.
Oh, I can't, I think we only had one bathroom in the house at the time. Um, and I was absolutely desperate when I was pregnant, heavily pregnant. And, um, someone, my husband or someone was upstairs and, um, I, I used the potty for a week and my son, who was two years old, was horrified. He was like. Mommy, what are you doing?
I was like, I just had to go. And my husband was pretty horrified as well, but I thought it was hilarious. When you gotta go, you've gotta
Anna Kettle: go. You do. Especially when you're heavily pregnant. I, you dunno if I can talk about one to be honest. John, if you got any, Sharon?
Sharon Edmundson: I dunno if I could top it, but I think it would be to do with leaving kids where like, um.[00:51:00]
It's happened a few times in different locations, but there's one time we'd all gone down to my parents in the car, we'd all got out the car. So I thought and gone into the house, and then after a while you could hit, we could hear this strange sound just going, oh, what's that noise? And I was like, oh, it's coming from outside.
I opened the door and there it stole. Stuck in the car was one of the kids. He's like, oh. And that has, there's at least three occasions when I can think of that, where one of the kids has been. Stuck in the wrong place. Fortunately, they're all alive and well and seem to be doing okay.
Anna Kettle: That's awesome. Um, yeah, somebody's called, Ellis has said, thanks, Jan for that advice you gave about motherhood. I thought it was really good. Um, when you can't, about motherhood, when you can't have kids was extremely good. So there you go. It's nice feedback. Um. Yeah. Any other, any other sort of thoughts that I'm aware we're kind of running out of time rapidly, [00:52:00] but any final thoughts from you, John, on motherhood?
Just,
Jan Burch: it's a privilege and it's an honor, however you do that, you know, however you're a mother. Um, I think it's, um, it's all, you know, a big part of God's plan and it's, it is just a real privilege. Yeah.
Anna Kettle: Yeah. Absolutely. Thank I love. Thank you Sharon.
Sharon Edmundson: I think for me, we kind of touched on it about how, um, mother, like different relationships point to God and how there's just lots of passages in the Bible where God will take a mothering situation either with like human mums or animal mums and just say, kind of look at this.
That's how I am. So I just wanted to read. One of them. So, um, Deuteronomy 32 says, like an eagle that stirs up its nests and hovers over its young God spreads wings to catch you and carries you on opinions. Um, yeah, so [00:53:00] just that lovely imagery of like, when we see motherhood done well, whether that's either in ourselves or, you know, the times when we do that or in other people just to be like, I think to reflect and go, oh, that.
That's how God is with or how God wants to be with us. That, yeah, that loving, nurturing, that teaching. Encouraging. Yeah.
Anna Kettle: I love that. I, um, the only other thing that I didn't, don't think we totally touched on, but I think it's quite important in, you picked up on it and you talk, Sharon, it's just this idea of like.
Our whole identity not being and being a mother, like our identity ultimately isn't God. Yeah. And that, that has been a real learning point for me. You know, like when we went through a season of infertility like a number of years ago, just, uh, actually God loves us 'cause he loves us regardless of what a motherhood status, statuses, and regardless of what our own motherhood journey looks like with our own mothers or with our [00:54:00] own children, like ultimately.
Our identity is in God. Um, that's our first and our most important identity as his child. And I, I just love that point that you picked up on as well, Sharon, I think such an important point to make when we're talking about roles like motherhood. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, um. I don't actually know what we're doing next week because Matt didn't tell me.
Do you know Sharon? No. No. No one knows. But we will be here next Sunday as usual, um, at the usual time. So, um, join us for that. Yeah, we will let you know what's happening. Um, hopefully there'll be some information coming up on the screen in a minute as well, but if you want to stick around and chat to us in chat room afterwards, um, feel free to stick around or we're happy to dig a bit deeper into those conversations.
If not, that's fine. Um, we're also round [00:55:00] through the week, so drop us an email or a text. Um, all of our details on the Crowd Church website. Very best. So, best, yeah, always happy to pray. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, and chat, uh, through your questions further. So I think that's all for us tonight, isn't it?
Jan Burch: Yeah. Thank you Sharon.
Thank you, Anna.
Anna Kettle: It's been a great conversation. Thanks for joining us, and thank you, Sharon. That was such a great talk. You're [00:56:00] welcome.