#43 The Biblical Father and the Roles of Prophet, Priest and King

12 Oct

YouTube Video of the Church Service

Have you ever sat in your car outside your house, just breathing, steeling yourself for whatever chaos awaits inside? Maybe you've scrolled through hundreds of photos of your kids and felt simultaneously overwhelmed by the challenge and grateful beyond words for the privilege. If you're a father, you'll know that feeling of being terrified and fulfilled at the same time.

At Crowd Church this week, Will Sopwith opened up about his own journey through fatherhood. From that first nerve-wracking drive home with a newborn to navigating the teenage years and beyond, he shared the brilliance and the mess of it all. But more than just swapping war stories, Will explored what the Bible actually says about fatherhood and discovered three roles that change everything.

The Real Issue

Our culture sends mixed messages about fathers. On one hand, we celebrate the "new man" who shares domestic chores and connects emotionally with his kids. On the other hand, we've got the useless male stereotype plastered across adverts where dad is basically another child to manage. Good for the fun stuff, hopeless at the practical stuff.

Will pointed out something striking from his years in a Facebook group for fathers called "This Dad Can". So many young men are struggling to find their role. They feel a bit secondary, sidelined by the more recognisable role of motherhood. Fatherhood has become optional, nice to have, but understandable if you don't.

Billy Graham once said that “A good father is one of the most unsung, unpraised, unnoticed, and yet one of the most valuable assets in our society.”. Whilst fatherhood gets more recognition now than perhaps 20 years ago, there's still little emphasis on what makes fatherhood distinct from being just a co-parent.

The Bible takes a different view. Scripture doesn't just lump mothers and fathers together under generic parenting advice. Whilst there's obviously overlap and flexibility depending on personality and circumstance, God has something specific to say about the role of fathers. And it challenges our modern assumptions head-on.

God's Framework

Will unpacked three biblical roles that define fatherhood. These aren't about male authority or patriarchy. They're about service and responsibility. The roles are prophet, priest, and king.

Father as Priest

A priest represents the people to God. In biblical times, the priest literally stood in the gap between God and the people. When the people didn't know how to approach God, the priest filled that gap. He brought their needs before God, prayed for them when they couldn't, and appealed to God on their behalf.

For fathers, this means taking responsibility for your children before God. It's thanking God for them, praying for their growth, their healing, their protection, and their forgiveness. We see this in Mark chapter 9:14-29, where a father brings his epileptic son to Jesus because the son is powerless to bring about change himself.

This role continues through your child's whole life, but ideally, you want them to develop their own direct relationship with God. You're bridging the gap until they can walk that path themselves.

Father as Prophet

A prophet represents God to the people. Someone who explains and lives out God's truth to others. In our context, fathers serve as representatives of God to their children.

This isn't just teaching them about God or leading them in worship, though that's part of it. It's showing them a close, all-access, lived example of following Jesus. As anyone raising kids knows, what we model speaks louder than what we say. We're constantly on display, often at our most unguarded moments.

The alignment between our words about God and our actions is critical. We're meant to demonstrate that God is love, that God created us from love, and that God sustains us from love. We show them that following Jesus isn't about being perfect but about being loved and learning to love like him.

Father as King

A king speaks of authority. As fathers, God expects us to take authority for our children. This means taking responsibility for their well-being, but it also means being prepared to correct them, set boundaries, and bring discipline when they stray.

This is the role most eroded in our modern times. How do we discipline without clipping our children's wings? There's an underlying societal fear of fathers being over-dominant or abusive. It feels safer to ease off on discipline and boundaries and let them find out for themselves.

Will's challenge was clear. Your exercise of authority is expected. It's expected by God, by society through legal responsibilities, by your partner, and yes, by your children. Don't give it up. Giving it up is like recognising the ground you need to hold in a battle and just walking away, hoping someone else will fill your place.

Paul wrote in Ephesians 6:4, "Fathers, bring your children up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord, but do not provoke them to anger." The Bible challenges harsh, dismissive attitudes where children might be counted as little more than slaves. But what's the culture it might be challenging today? One of absence, lack of effort, and lack of authority.

Making It Real

During Conversation Street, the panel tackled some brutally honest questions about living this out in real life.

The exhausted provider. One question asked how to stay spiritually engaged when you work long hours, see your kids only briefly during the week, and come home exhausted. Dave Connolly shared a story about working 72 hours straight, coming home wanting nothing but bed, and his son wanting to play football in the hall. His wife Julie said something profound: "There will come a time when he won't ask you to do this."

Either they'll grow out of it or they'll think you're disinterested. There's a cost to being a dad, but it's one we should willingly pay. Those cards from your kids, those little moments, they make all the headache and trouble worthwhile.

Quality over bells and whistles. Will added that it doesn't have to be elaborate. He remembered his hour-long commute, parking outside his terrace house, needing to just stop and breathe and pray because he had no idea what chaos he was walking into. But kids, particularly when they're young, just want a bit of us being there. They don't want a holiday in Malibu. They want to see you.

It's worth revisiting our priorities. What are we really modelling to our kids? Some fathers have heard their kids say, "I'm not doing that job because you're always knackered." That's a wake-up call about what we're teaching them work should look like.

When kids make different choices. What happens when your kids grow up and don't walk with God? When they make decisions that aren't in line with your faith or beliefs? Dave's advice was powerful: believe in the seed you've sown into their lives. A farmer never sows expecting to get less than what he sowed.

You don't know what God is doing in them. He's a personal Saviour, a personal God. They may not be doing church the way you want, but don't give up on them. Keep praying. The goal is that they have a personal relationship with Jesus, not that they do church exactly like you do.

The messed-up dad. If you feel like you've messed up as a father, what do you do? Say sorry. Ask God for forgiveness. If it's appropriate, speak to your kids based on their age. Talk to your wife and pray together. Your kids are God's possession, stewarded to you. God just expects you to do your best and love your kids. They need to know you love them, even if you despise what they're doing at this moment.

And critically, as Will said, don't give up. Even if your kids are 50, it's not too late to keep being their dad. Even if there's been distance and non-communication for 20 years, you need to lead. Make that step and say you want to do this differently. It's never too late.

The Picture That Changes Everything

Will shared a picture God gave him during a time when he didn't feel particularly heard or seen. In the picture, he was walking as a three or four-year-old, holding God's hand. He was babbling away about the concerns of his life, just talking about whatever was in his head.

God wasn't going "mm-hmm, mm-hmm" whilst thinking about something else. God wasn't distracted, wasn't talking over his head to somebody else. God was listening. God was attentive to this completely inconsequential babble.

That was the first time Will really began to understand God's father heart. It's a real challenge for us to model presence, engagement, and attentiveness to our children. Along with protection and provision, just being there and listening matters immensely.

Your Next Step This Week

Here are some practical ways to step into these roles:

As Priest: Pray specifically for one area of struggle or growth for each of your children this week. Stand in the gap for them before God, even if they don't know you're doing it.

As Prophet: Have an honest conversation with your kids about your own faith journey. Share one way you've seen God at work in your life recently. Let them see your faith lived out, not just talked about.

As King: Identify one boundary or discipline issue you've been avoiding because it's easier to let it slide. Step back into that space with love and clear expectation. Don't give up ground.

On Presence: Put away your phone for one hour this week and be fully present with your kids. No distractions, no half-attention. Just be there, attentive like God is to you.

On Forgiveness: If you've messed up with your kids, apologise. Show them what it looks like when an adult gets things wrong and makes it right. That's modelling Christ.

The Privilege of Fatherhood

Fatherhood is a huge, terrifying, absorbing challenge. It's also simultaneously the richest experience many of us will ever have. Whatever our few short years on this planet achieve or don't, our role as fathers, with its highs and lows, its wins and losses, its brilliance and stupidity, is pure gold.

The role hasn't been handed to us by accident. God has equipped you to be a priest, a prophet, and a king to your children. Not in a domineering way, but in a way that serves them, points them to Jesus, and models what it looks like to follow God through the mess of real life.

Culture may tell you that fatherhood is optional, secondary, or just about sharing chores. But the Bible says something radically different. Your presence matters. Your leadership matters. Your modelling of faith matters. Your authority, exercised in love, matters.

A Question Worth Asking

What would change if you genuinely believed that God has called you specifically to be priest, prophet, and king to your children? What ground would you reclaim? What conversations would you have? What would you model differently?

Because here's the truth the panel left us with: being a dad is one of the best things you'll ever do. Your kids don't need you to be perfect. They need you to be present, engaged, and pointing them towards the Father who never stops listening, never gives up, and loves them beyond measure.

And if you're feeling like you've already messed it up beyond repair, remember Will's closing words: It's never too late. God's grace is incredible. Keep stepping up through all the mistakes and challenges. Your role as a father is a daily responsibility and a daily gift.

# Father
[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Crowd Church, coming to you live from Liverpool this Sunday night. My name is Matt Edmundson, and whether this is your first time or whether you've been part of our journey since the beginning, it's brilliant to be with you. We are a community of people figuring out what it means to follow Jesus in real life, not the polished, perfect version, but you know, the messy, genuine, brilliant reality of this whole thing called Christianity.
So let me give you a little roadmap of what's gonna be happening. Over the next hour. We'll have a talk, lasts about 20 minutes, looking at the topic of relationships, which is the section of our series becoming whole, that we are looking at exploring how Christ makes us whole across every domain of life.[00:01:00]
After the talk, we've got conversation streets. Oh yes. This is where we dig into what you've just heard, and you get to be part of that discussion. So if you're with us live, jump into the comments, share your questions, your thoughts, and your stories. And of course, if you are watching on Catchup or listening to the podcast, then thanks for being part of the crowd too.
Right? Let's meet your hosts and let's get started. Good evening. Welcome to Crowd Church. My name is Matt, and yes, that was me in the intro video. I've just gone and put a crowd hoodie on church merch. Yeah. Uh, but a very, very warm welcome to you on this slightly cool evening, uh, from Liverpool. Beside me is the beautiful and amazing, all around phenomenal person, which is Dave Cony.
Good evening, Dave. Good evening. And you meant, um, handsome. I think I, I definitely meant handsome as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Oh, some things just go [00:02:00] without saying. Uh, and ly debonair, uh, and handsome, we have will salt, uh, over on the other side. How are we doing? Well? Yeah. Very good to see you. Yeah.
Nice, nice to be on the panel with you. Well, it's good to be here. It's good to be here. We are talking about fatherhood this evening. Uh, we are gonna get into, well, specifically Will's gonna get into that, and then we're all gonna jump in on Conversation Street. So, like I said in the intro, any questions, anything, uh, you've got, put it in the comments and we will get round to that hopefully during Conversation Street.
We've got some cracking stuff, uh, coming up on the old questions. Um, so yeah, looking forward to that. And also just to say at the end of the service. We are going to, when we close the live stream, we open up a Google meets room, super high tech. Um, but you can just simply come join us on Google meets, hang out with us after, while we're only on there for like 10, 15 minutes.
It's not a long time. It's just a really great opportunity to meet you guys to face to, well, camera at a [00:03:00] camera I suppose. 'cause normally it's just me talking to you, but you can come talk to us, uh, in the Google Meets room. We'd love to meet you, love to chat with you, see how you're getting on, um, and ask, just ask some great questions, um, ab about it all now.
I just need to make sure my Yes, we are, we are working, which is good. Um, good evening aid. Heather's in the comments. Sharon's in the comments as well. So very warm welcome. Very good evening to all of you. Uh, but without further ado, we shall get straight into it. Mr. William, are we ready? Yeah. Yeah. Great.
Are, are we prepared? Thank you. Thank you very much, Matt. So, yeah, as Matt said, my name's Will, and we're in the middle of a series taking a deep dive into different relationships, and tonight we're talking fatherhood, as Matt's already said. And before I launch in, I want to scope this out a bit, so please bear with me.
I believe we all have a mix of what might be classed as male and female, uh, [00:04:00] characteristics. And the mix is different for every individual. And I believe that parents share their roles in a wide variety of ways according to personality. Circumstance skills, but actually also culture. So the role of parent can at times seem rather blurred between mother and father.
And it's not a static split either. It varies with time. It even varies child by child if you have more than one child. But today my task is to focus on a biblical view of fatherhood. But for every point I make about fathers, I'm not necessarily implying that it doesn't also apply to mothers. And I also don't believe having lived it for some years, that roles of fathers and mothers are so categorically distinct that you can apply a formula to every family.[00:05:00]
Something like this is how it should be, whatever. There is very little exclusivity, I believe, in the Bible, in this area. There are more foundational things we are called to as followers of Christ than distinct things as men and women. But it's also true to say that encouragement and challenge on fatherhood can apply to those without a formal fatherhood role, whether that be a biological role or, uh, adoptive, for example.
So where you might find yourself in a spiritual role of fatherhood or a more temporary responsibility for a child, such as in fostering. And finally, I and the team recognize that talking about parental relationships in particular can trigger a whole host of deeply felt responses. And this can be especially true, I think, for fathers.[00:06:00]
Now if I spend the next 20 minutes qualifying every point by saying, of course this can also apply to mothers or those without children, et cetera, it's gonna get a little repetitive. So please take these as red. And also, my scope here doesn't enable really a satisfactory treatment of where concepts of fatherhood may become twisted or spoiled or triggering.
But if this is something you do wanna dig into or affected by it, please do get in touch if that is helpful to do so. In summary, I'm primarily talking to those with children and from a father's perspective, as I see it laid out in the Christian scriptures, if that's not where you're at, I believe there is still truth here for you.
But the crowd team have also put together an amazingly comprehensive series on many other relationships that you might find more relevant. So. [00:07:00] I am a biological father of three, A boy and two girls. I've sat with other new dads often in a toddler swim session on a Saturday morning, quietly fretting over why my firstborn hasn't yet shown much interest in speech or whether they should now by be able to climb stairs like young Dan can.
I've shared cups in exhausted solidarity with other parents of toddlers who've just acquired newborn siblings. I remember the apparently trivial first skirmishes in a battle of wills with my children that nevertheless felt vitally important, those steps of them beginning to assert an independent authority and test the boundaries very often over food or tv.
I've confronted the resurgence of those battles many years later as they become equipped with a richer vocabulary, a wider group of friends, and me with a dwindling toolbox of [00:08:00] sanctions. I was surprised by the unexpectedly heavy burden of picking the right school mixed up as it was with the reality that I needed to start releasing these precious lives into situations over which I had less control.
I've periodically faced the challenge of balancing provision for my family financially materially against my availability to them physically and emotionally. I found myself mentally plotting numerous future paths and opportunities for each of them only to realize I'm unable to walk these paths on their behalf, or even to persuade them to walk them.
I've sat in helpless tears with fellow fathers at the decisions our children have made at the hurts. I feel powerless to touch at the dilemmas and emotional responses I feel shut out from. I've struggled [00:09:00] with gauging when my opinion is wanted, when it is not, and also with weighing up how damaging that choice might be in each situation.
I've had to confess to my older children, my failures to their younger selves. I've glimpsed inner torment or deception that I had been too blind or too stupid to notice or dress at the time. Questioned my own approach and decisions at every turn. That was Wednesday. I also have thousands of photos, scribbles doodles, moments of pure unimagined joy, a box full of birthday and Father's Day cards expressing sentiments that I would not trade for the whole world.
The immense privilege of being part of three amazing lives whose impact on the world around them is beautiful. The fulfillment that whatever my few short years on this planet achieve or don't achieve. [00:10:00] My role as a father and its highs and lows, its wins and losses, its brilliance and stupidity is pure gold.
Now, some of that, maybe all of that will register with you if you are a father. A huge, terrifying, absorbing challenge that is simultaneously the richest experience of my life. If you find it a challenge, you are in good company. Tonight, I want to explore. A little about a Christian and biblical view of fatherhood itself, a challenge, but hopefully also an encouragement and some light on the path.
And I find the Bible so often functioning like that. It can be a reliable plumb line against which to assess the prevailing culture and attitudes that we are immersed in, but it's also a torch to help us pick our way through the terrain. [00:11:00] The Bible helps our thinking and it also helps our journeying.
The Bible talks about fathers a lot. It includes many stories of good fathers, but also bad fathers. It doesn't always call out what is good and bad. It leaves the stories there for us to reflect on and draw our own conclusions. Why was it that Jacob had so many sons with so many women? Pitting them against the youngest, Joseph by his shameless obvious favoritism, Joseph being the one with a multicolored coat.
What was going on in the royal line of Israel that meant so many new kings took on the idolatry of their grandparents, rather than follow the godly example of their fathers to muddle things further, God appears to review some very flawed fathers to achieve his purposes. Not necessarily condoning the behavior, but not always calling it out.[00:12:00]
Perhaps there's hope for all of us in that I, another key way in which fatherhood is talked, uh, in the Bible is using father-like imagery to describe God. God as protector as in Psalm 68, father to the fatherless protector of widows, God as provider. Jesus talks about God, the Heavenly Father, feeding the sparrows clothing, the flowers of the field.
How much more will God care for your needs? That's in Matthew 6 26. God as the source of inheritance, God as the one who disciplines out of love. In Hebrews 12, six, Jesus gives us our Father as the way to approach God in his model of praying, in the so-called Lord's prayer, he gives us the picture of the loving Father in the prodigal son parable, breaking many cultural boundaries of what a father's role [00:13:00] would've been expected to be.
Uncritical, gracious, accepting, exuberant in his emotion for some and those of the Muslim faith, particularly to call God father, is an outrageous reduction of the Almighty God into a human relationship. It's really a blasphemy. But perhaps this is Jesus' point, that the closeness of relationship we can enjoy with our creator is like that of a parent.
It is an outrageous assumption to make, and yet that is God, how God relates to us. But it's the final aside on context, so I don't keep having to say it on every point. God is spirit. The Bible is also full of maternal metaphors for God. God is not a guy, God is Father. Mother also describes as friend. Male and female are both [00:14:00] made in God's image, age.
Perhaps the particular legal and cultural context in which the Bible was written means that father metaphors were often richer and more communicative of God's nature. I don't know. It's also true that the Hebrew language in which most of the Old Testament is written is highly gendered and forces the writer.
To make a choice between male and female pronouns, but the Bible and Christians tend to refer to God as he, because God is personal. God is not it to go God. She is arguably as inaccurate as calling God. He and perhaps has been deliberately avoided in so much of church history to distinguish from the abundant fertility cults of ancient times, or the worship of Mother Earth.
It's really an argument well beyond both my knowledge and, and this session, to be honest, and the shorthand [00:15:00] of heed to describe God I think is more traditional than anything else. But let's turn to our contemporary cultural view of fatherhood and look at what plumb line the Bible might provide. I've been part of a Facebook help group for a number of years called This Dad Can.
It's a group formed with the aim of men, honestly, connecting over the challenges of fatherhood, a place of support often, or for advice from peers. It's been a fantastic initiative, but something I've really been struck by over recent years is the place of fatherhood in so many families. As a little bit secondary, young men struggling to find their role in bringing up a child.
Men often sidelined by the more central, maybe more recognizable motherhood role, especially [00:16:00] where relationships between the parents are broken down. Fatherhood feels a little bit like an optional extra, perhaps nice if you have it, but you know, understandable if you don't. Billy Graham, the American preacher once said, A good father is one of the most unsung, unraised unnoticed, and yet one of the most valuable assets in our society.
I think, to be fair, it's less unsung now than when he made that observation. Excuse me, but I can't help noticing that it's parenting that is much more commonly highlighted in the sense of dads being more recognized as sharing roles with moms than perhaps 20 years ago. There's still not a great emphasis on fatherhood as anything distinct, so we see the new man, a more emotionally engaged reaction [00:17:00] to perhaps my dad's generation relating to their farmers, fathers of more remotely and more formal relationships, all stiff upper lip and distant breadwinner and disciplinarian.
These new man dads share the domestic chores. Operators help us to the core maternal task of upbringing, seek more emotional connection with young children than perhaps they enjoyed themselves. I can't help also noticing a growth in the useless male stereotype, even in adverts that I've just noticed this last couple of weeks.
And that's kind of the, the, the knowing, understanding between moms that the father is really just like having another kid to manage, doing the fun stuff, but not really equipped to do the hard stuff. They must be tolerated and managed, but not especially valued. They're sadly a common expectation too, of the absent father,
excuse [00:18:00] me, there for the weekend stuff on prior arrangement, but not so much for the practical midweek stuff. Now I absolutely welcome a more equal approach between mothers and fathers on a challenging, practical task of raising human beings. But these stereotypes are not helpful. I believe the Bible has more specific things to say about the role of Father than just as a co-parent.
And this is the plumb line I wanna hold up against our modern assumptions.
One of the consistent views I've seen expressed on this Dad can is the struggle of new fathers to discover and fulfill their role. And I remember this so clearly 22 years ago with the birth of our son, even as I crawled along Smith down road at about 15 miles an hour bearing this precious and mysterious bundle home for the first time in his shiny new [00:19:00] car seat.
I was aware that something had shifted. My wife was exhausted and entirely focused on the task of sleep and feeding a close early bond I felt at a loss to understand or participate in. Yeah, I did all the nappies gladly for something to contribute. We shared each new first with Wonder and Terror together, but I sort of felt subtly distant.
My role was a stage manager welcoming guests judging, appropriate visit time, making the endless pots of tea. I was suddenly protective of this new family unit, but if I'm honest, as a bit of a perimeter to the main event, I understood the impulse to provide and protect, but couldn't help feeling. I was looking in like everyone else to something I didn't really understand.[00:20:00]
So from the start, I'd always felt that our roles. We're different. Complimentary for sure of equal importance for sure, but different. Thank you.
The way I've come to understand those differences as the children have independently developed relationships with father and mother is in three main areas, and these are actually roles that all followers of Christ are called to, but I think perhaps especially fathers, I hesitate to name them because we can immediately jump to thoughts of male authority and patriarchy and inequality.
But hopefully my initial scoping reassures you, this is not where I'm coming from. And along with authority, each of these roles is at heart, one of service and a hugely challenging responsibility. The roles [00:21:00] are priest. Prophet and king. So let's unpack Moses.
One core role of a priest is to represent the people to God. A biblical priest had the responsibility to literally stand in the gap between God and the people. The people didn't always know God or how to approach God, and the priest's responsibility was to fill this gap, to bring the people's needs before God, to pray for them where they could not to appeal to God on their behalf, where they would not.
The priest applies their own faith on behalf of the people where the people's faith is not up to it. And this is a role of Christian fathers, particularly with young children. It could be described as [00:22:00] taking responsibility for your child before God, and that might be thanking God for them, praying for their growth and development, praying for their healing, for their protection, praying for their forgiveness.
We have an example in Mark nine of a father bringing his epileptic son to Jesus because the son was powerless to bring change for himself. Now, this role continues to an extent through our child's whole life, but ideally, you want your children to have their own direct relationship with God and to begin to take their own responsibility for faith and conduct.
So the next role is prophet. Now, a prophet is someone who represents God to the people. Someone that can explain and even live out God's truth to others. Model what it is to know God. And to follow Christ as well as speaking [00:23:00] God's word as revealed to them. So in our context, a core role of father as prophet is to represent God to their children.
And this is not only teaching them and leading them in worship, but showing them a close all access lived example of following Jesus. Now, to do this, you need to know God for yourself. As anyone raising children or young adults knows, the representation we give is often more our actions than our words.
We are on display constantly around our kids, often at our most unguarded moments. The alignment of our words about God and our actions is a critical part of our role as prophets to our children.
What are we to represent? [00:24:00] What's the gospel
at heart? It's training and demonstrating to them that God is love. God created us from that love and sustains us from that love. But we, God's wider creation, have ignored the gift. We plotted our own course. We've listened to our pride and needs in preference to following God's way, and this is a situation that needs correcting.
If we are to truly know and live in God's love. The reality is we are too far gone as a people to make our own amends. So Jesus came. He lived, he died, and he was resurrected to life in order to take that huge debt off our shoulders, take it off our account. God now offers us the choice. Put your trust in Jesus' [00:25:00] solution or continue to plot it out in your own way.
And as fathers, we have a role to present that and to model that to our children. The third role is King. Now, a king speaks of authority and as Father, as God expects us to take authority for our children. But this is not just taking responsibility for their wellbeing as any good King should. It's also being prepared to correct them, to set boundaries, to bring discipline when they stray.
And perhaps this is the role that is most eroded in our modern times. How do we discipline without clipping our children's wings? It's a constant undermining of the relevance of a father's authority that I see when compared with a child's autonomy. There's an [00:26:00] underlying societal fear, I think, of fathers being over dominant or, or even abusive.
And what about when a mother and a father differ in their view or opinion? It's all felt much safer if we just ease off on the discipline and boundaries. Let our children find it out for themselves, make their own decisions, perhaps just default to the mother's view, either for quiet life or because we secretly suspect they might have a better understanding of the situation.
I see both these attitudes. I've experienced both these scenarios. My challenge to you fathers is that your exercise of authority is expected of you. It's expected by God. It's actually expected by society. Is there in legal responsibilities of fathers expected by your partner and yes expected by your children?
Don't give it up. Giving it up is a bit like [00:27:00] recognizing the ground you have to hold in a battle and just walking away from it, hoping someone else will fill your place. Does the Bible give us any clues as to what this discipline looks like? Paul says in Ephesians six, four, fathers bring your children up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord, but do not provoke them to anger Jesus, who like Paul wasn't a father, nevertheless says, let the little children come to me, do not despise such as these.
They were challenging the harsh disciplinarian or dismissive attitudes of their day. Where children might be counted as little more than slaves. What's the culture? The Bible might be challenging Today,
I believe it might be one of absence of [00:28:00] lack of effort and of lack of authority. The roles of priest, prophet, and king challenge these directly be present, engaged, not just supportive, but lead model. God's love and grace. Lay out godly expectation and do not give up ground to your children on things you know are not gonna benefit them.
It's a tough balance and it's never changing one, but keep stepping up through all the mistakes, all the challenges. Your role as father is a daily responsibility.
Now to end, I just wanna share a picture that I had of God's father heart to us, which is relevant to all of us, whether you are a father or not. And God, very often through my Christian life, has spoken to me through a simple picture. [00:29:00] And this picture, I think it was a time of my life when I didn't feel particularly heard or seen.
I can't quite remember when it was to be honest. But the picture was of me walking with someone and I was walking with my hand like this in their hand. So I was quite small, maybe a kind of a three or four. I was the toddler in this scenario and I was holding God's hand and I realized God was my father in this picture.
And as three or four year olds do, I'm walking along, babbling away about, I don't know the concerns of my life, rubbish. Just whatever was in my head, just talking. God was not going. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you know, as adults quite often do with small children bubbling away, just saying the right kind of noises, but not really there, not really present.
God wasn't distract distracted, he wasn't talking over my head to somebody else. [00:30:00] God was listening. God was attentive to this completely inconsequential babble. And I think that was the first time in my life that I really began to understand God's father heart. For us. Now that's a real challenge for us to model that presence, engagement, attentiveness to our children, as well as all the things about protection and provision.
Now, as I've said, this is a huge challenge. So I do just wanna pray before we go into Conversation Street and. Wherever you are at as a father. Um, yeah. Just listen for God's voice as I pray. Lord God, I thank you that you've given us this incredible role. I thank you that your Bible has modeled this for us as well.
And God, I want to pray for all the [00:31:00] fathers that are feeling like they've given up so much ground feeling, maybe beaten down by the failures, maybe lost sight of the victories. God, I pray for your encouragement. I pray for your challenge afresh to us all as fathers, and I pray to for your grace and order to ask that you would equip us to model fatherhood in this world in which we live, not be quiet about it.
Help us, Lord to lead. Help us Lord, however badly we've messed up, to keep engaged with the challenge wherever our kids are at. Thank you Lord, that you never leave us or forsake us. And I thank you for your grace. Amen. Amen. Well, great. Thanks Will, uh, [00:32:00] a fascinating topic, isn't it? Fatherhood a such a massive thing to try and fit into 20, 25 minute talk.
Um, but we're gonna get into it now. Conversation Street, put your questions, comments, uh, in the comments. Um, we're gonna get into those. Um, but it's fair to say, uh, that both Dave, you and I are dads. You're a granddad. I am. Yeah. Absolutely. And in fact, you're speaking about what it means to be a granddad soon, right?
Yeah. Um, I think beginning of November. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So this is sort of, um, in the series we're doing on relationships, looking at the different, the different parts of it. Um, I love where what you said about the role of a father being the prophet priest king. There's a great book, isn't There by Derek Prince about this, which actually really helped me to get my head around this.
And if you've not read it, I highly recommend you, you read that and just read anything by Derek Prince to be fair. Um, but it's a fascinating one, isn't it? And at the end, uh, we all said [00:33:00] that perhaps a problem we have as fathers now is not the same as it was in Paul's day. Um, but I think you said will it was absence effort and maybe an exercise of authority that was missing.
Do, would you add anything to that? Yeah, well, just on Derek Prince, the book was written sometime ago. Um, but. It doesn't lose any of its truth. No, it doesn't lose any of its truth. We talk a lot about culture and I think sometimes we lose, we like to talk about culture and sometimes we replace culture with truth.
Mm-hmm. You know, um, I forgot what the question might was, but I was gonna say now for each of us, just 'cause I'm trying to think. And, um, you know, everybody who will be watching or listening this, they will have some experience of father. Mm. Um, and as you said, it may be an absent father. It may be where they're being raised by a wonderful woman.
Um, but, you know, um. [00:34:00] Listening, you know, to to, to Will's tour. You know, we, as, as a father, you listen to all the truths and we're almost, you know, like, I could do that better. I could do that better. I could do that better. I could do that better If I was to say, what do you do? You know, what are you rubbish at being a dad?
We roll them off, roll them up, and then say, well, what are you doing good at? And you're like, you get past two and you start scratching your head and, and it, it, it's wrong. It really, it really is wrong. And we have to change our thinking. Um, there's so much said in scripture. About fatherhood. And there's, you know, as, as we'll mention, you know, several different ways how scripture talks about it.
Um, but we need to remember when we are talking about fatherhood that it's not about what our experiences, you know, whether we've had a good dad and absent dad. You know, if you had a wonderful dad, be so thankful if you've had an [00:35:00] absent dad, you know, it could have been worse, you know? And if you've had a dad who's abused you, it could have been worse, you know?
But if you've experienced that liking like I did, um, that was never an excuse for me with my kids. Yeah. 'cause I knew what I wanted from them. But I, I, I just wanna say that what our experience. Isn't the plumb line, it's what scripture says about Father God. And Father God is a loving God, who continually, as his arms stretch wide for his children, even when they're being naughty.
Read about Israel. Very naughty. My kids were never naughty. Isn't that right, Zoe? Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, I know. I've got a few home truths VMA around our house. They were awful. Um, it is interesting what Dave said there will about, as dads, we can write a list as long as our arm of [00:36:00] our failings and a much shorter list of our successes.
Is that true for you, do you think? Yeah, no, ab absolutely. I think it's, that's partly the human condition, isn't it? We we're very quick to, I think everyone really is their own worst critic. Um, and, and it is tough. I mean, we're just kind of writing this and thinking about my own experience of fatherhood.
If I'd known any of this. I think maybe I've thought twice, but you know, God's grace is incredible and, and I think, yeah, I, I don't think we see the brilliance of, of our father. 'cause people, I mean, our kids don't always, you know, bigger sound like that. You, you don't, they would. No, you don't. Um, but no, I mean, my, my kids are great at, at, uh, at pointing out my, my flaws as well as, uh, as well as what's good.
But yeah, I, I, I think it's, it's true. But, but that, that is no excuse. Absolutely what you're saying, Dave, and it's not a reason not to do it either. It's very easy to say, oh, this is really hard. I just need to backtrack from this. And, and, and that's the absolutely [00:37:00] what shouldn't happen. Yeah. Because I, I do believe, uh, yeah, I, I, I align with, with Billy Graham on that quote that it's such an important role that we do see.
Eroded increasingly eroded. And, and to, to reclaim that in a really right way is, is, um, is key. Now, it, it's hard enough just trying to be a father day to day without then reclaiming fatherhood for, you know, for the world or whatever. But, um, but yeah, that it's, we need God in that. We absolutely need God.
Yeah. No, it's very, very true. It's interesting, like you talked about with, with culture, right? Um, and the culture we live in, um, there's very different experiences that people have, both of being a father, um, and having a father, right? Um, so let's deal with some of these. Um, I work long hours to provide for my family.
How do I stay spiritually [00:38:00] engaged when I'm exhausted and barely see my kids during the week? Who wants to try that question? I used to come home from work at night. Um, I remember working 72 hours straight and, um, my son, who's in his forties now, he wasn't, this wasn't recently obviously. And um, I remember coming off nights, walking home.
I was working in all day in the rain and I got in I think about eight o'clock and it was school holidays. All I wanted was bed and all he wanted was to play football in the hall. Yeah. And he still does. And um, and, and I remember like saying, do you know what I've done? You know, been saving lives, son, you know, and um, you know, and I was tired and I was ex, I was tired, I was exhausted.
I had worked hard. But you know, Julie said to me, there will come a time when he won't ask you to do this. Yeah. [00:39:00] Either they'll grow outta it, which I'm still waiting for. Um, or you'll think. Disinterested in him. Yeah. And, and I'm like, let's get the ball. You know? And, and there is a, I think it, there is a cost in being a dad, but it's one that we should willingly want to pay, you know?
Um, and I said before, you know, regardless if you've had a bad dad, it can't be an excuse for us. Maybe they did the best they could possibly do. What was their story? Yeah. You know? And um, for me, we just need to be. God has give us these kids to steward. Yeah. The s is giving us them to steward and we need to stew them for the best of our ability.
Yes. We work long hours maybe for holidays or for this or for that. But you know what you, what really caught me in, one of the things you said was about a card. You know [00:40:00] those cards from our kids? It makes all the headache. Yeah. And all the trouble worthwhile, doesn't it? Yeah. You know, and if you know women, Julie send, sell boxes of these cards all around the house, you know, and men tend to put them in the bin.
Um, but it makes it all worthwhile. Just that little thing with those moments with those kids. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think the other thing I'd add to that, and, and, and maybe this is a bit of a cliche, but let's say it again anyway, that it doesn't have to be real bells and whistles. I mean, I, I to, I totally relate to that and I, I remember.
I used to have a an hour long commute, uh, with work when our kids were, were very little and there was always a moment, I mean, decompressing from work in the car for that hour, but it was kind of traffic across the Runcorn bridge and it wasn't exactly relaxing. Um, and then, but I, I used to just park in the little terrace street where we lived and I just need to stop the car and just breathe and pray.
'cause I had no idea what I [00:41:00] was walking into. This was kind of, mobile phones were pretty new. I, I just did not know what chaos, what stress. And, you know, moms at that point are like, great dad's home. Whatever's gone on in the day, here it is. And you're just walking and going, I don't even know the content.
So I used to just have to kind of steal myself almost for that. Yeah. But you know, our kids, particularly when they're young, all they want is just a little bit of Yeah. Us being there. Absolutely. You know, and sometimes I think we can get a little bit tripped up in our priorities and go, oh, well, and, and you know, you, you, you kind of see it in films that the dad going, oh, I'm doing all this for you.
And the kid just going, I don't want a holiday in Malibu. I just want to see you every so often. You know, that, that whole kind of trap of I'm working all hours to get you nice things to prepare for your future or whatever. You know, those are all important aspects of fatherhood to provide for our families and steward the [00:42:00] resources that we have and to work hard and all the rest.
But in the end, our kids just want us to be there and, and if holiday is kicking a football around in the hall, that is the best summer holiday compared to whatever we're saving up for. So don't worry about it being bells and whistles, the simple little connection. With whatever grace we have and God can give us more grace Yeah.
Is worth it. And also it is worth just revisiting our priorities and thinking, what, what am I giving my kids here? Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I've, I've had lots of friends with lots of conversations with friends who, as their kids have kind of got to the point where they're leaving school, they've started to be a bit honest to their parents and say, well, I'm not gonna do that job because you are always knackered.
And they're like, whoa, is that what I'm modeling to my kids? Yeah. The world of work is this awful drudge. Mm-hmm. So, you know, sometimes it's good to just reflect on what we're, what we're modeling. Oh, without a doubt. Who we're really doing it for. Without a doubt. It's one of those things where [00:43:00] it's easy to work 80 hours a week and you have to question why you're doing it.
Right. Who's told you that your 11-year-old kid has to have the latest iPhone? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Really, you've gotta think these things through. Right. We, we grew, I grew up in a single parent household. Um. Well, my parents divorced when I was nine, so the, the maj my teenage years. And so I grew up seeing a mom work three jobs just to try and pay the bills.
Right. That has an impact on me that I have to be aware of, which says I don't wanna see my kids go without, because I remember what it was like when the other kids in the playground had the latest trainers and I didn't. Do you know what I mean? And you just kind of, and the comments and the, the, you remember those and you're like, my kids will never have to deal with that.
Some of that's good. Mm-hmm. Some of that is just my ego. Some of that is culture. Um, the Hebrew, uh, the, the Hebrew idea of raising kids, which I really love, focuses on three things. Um. Which I think is, is one, [00:44:00] is stewardship. Like you said, your kids are not yours. They're god's, you're stewarding them. Two is instructing them Absolutely.
In the ways of God, right? That's one of the, like you talked about, prophet, priest, king, primary role, teach 'em in the ways of God. And the third one is motivation, right? So getting them to a place where they're, where they're motivated, um, to serve God and to walk out life. You bring those three things together, and I think you do all right as a parent.
Um, but it, you do have to question, don't you. Where, where am I getting the desire to buy my 11-year-old kid, the latest iPhone or whatever it is. You know? I, I just think putting a, putting that into the hands of an 11-year-old kid is, I get that their friends might have it, but for me it's not, it's not where I would go.
But coming back to one of the questions. And Father, lemme come back to Heather's comment. Um, Heather said, I loathe the term and more importantly, the loose and rudderless role, which I thought was a great phrase, uh, of baby daddy, as if the role is largely [00:45:00] relevant past conception as if mother, uh, then can and should bring up the child.
Having had myself a dysfunctional family, uh, and a terrifying father, my faith in the role was reestablished when my husband stepped into the role and made me see how important fathers are. Good man. Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, I think quite often culture has a massive pull on us in shaping us. You know, um, like my grandkids, um, we looked after them basically, so their parents couldn't, all our kids went back to work and where in front they were little.
And, um, I remember being introduced to Pepper Pig. And I was horrified in how they portrayed Daddy Pig. Mm. And how they spoke to Daddy Pig. There was no honor in the, in the household. Uh, you know, he was the but of every joke. Um, [00:46:00] and I, I know it's a children's animation, you know, but there's a, there's a message in that.
And, um, you know, dads, you know, they shouldn't have to force to establish themselves. You know, we say marriage is a partnership, but you know, the roles are separate and, you know, God bless that and Dad for, you know, stepping back in. Um, but we need to talk about men more positively. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, I think, and, and, and with our, with our sons and our daughters, you know.
For me, you know, the best thing I can do with, with our kids. And I probably invented some of the things on getting things wrong, but, you know, the best thing I can do, and I think there's two of them, at least one, is to let them see me live out my faith. Yeah. Through the highs and the low. Yeah. And the, and the other one is for them to see how I love their mom.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. And, you know, that's my responsibility and, and for me to disciple my kids. Yeah. It is not my church's job [00:47:00] to input my kids. Um, it's my job. It's not the youth leaders. Yeah. It's my job. So I think those three things, which is really what you were saying. Yeah, yeah. You know, the Jewish culture thing is.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think that one of the quite a big revelation for me is the kids are growing and, and as a, as a dad, you always feel like you're, you're kind of one step behind where your kids are. You know, they're developing too quick for you to adapt. But, but I do remember the challenge of being a bit more open.
You know when, when your kids are really young, you tend to kind of hide things and you tend to, I dunno, maybe a little bit of a mask to them. 'cause they're, they're not able to handle the fullness of adult emotions, but as they get older, it's really important for them to see how you disagree, how you deal with disappointment, how you, all these things.
And I think that that whole kind of baby dad, the kind of the dad as a kid, just, you know, regressing into childhood and being someone else to manage kids, lose all that. Yeah. They don't see any of that model. They don't see how to live in [00:48:00] an adult world with all its pressures and difficulties are imperfections.
Um, and likewise, if we always have a mask of like. I've got it under control. Don't worry. Not a great model for your kids. 'cause they will face challenges and they'll go, oh, I'm abnormal. There's like, I never saw this. My dad always had everything under control. And that, that's, that's a terrifying honesty with our kids because often it's the weakness, but again, really important that, that we are, we are authentic in our modeling of adulthood to our kids.
And sometimes that means Yeah. Showing, showing our faults. Yeah. And I noticed, um, I remember really clearly, um, our kids are all quite close together and, um, we've got three and I remember, um, getting to a stage when they were just hitting secondary school that I. Um, I made a commitment to openly apologize to them.
You know, when I, when I got things wrong to, to explain, I got that wrong. That was a reaction rather than a response That didn't really go the way I wanted it [00:49:00] to go. I didn't really mean to say those things, how I said them, you know, and I really need, you know, I'm asking for your forgiveness because it just shows this thing that.
Our kids don't want us to be perfect. They want us to be present and engaged. Yeah. So true. Um, Ellis has asked, uh, how does your role as a father change, and you just answered this slightly, Dave, but how does your role as a father change when your children are grown adults? Which I think is a great question because my kids are all technically now grown adults.
Yeah. Um, and so the relationship does change. It does. Um, it's supposed to and it's supposed to. Yeah. Yeah. I found, I dunno if you guys found this as my kids got older, um, I'm still their dad, but actually we're quite close as friends and that's where it starts to get a Yeah. A bit more interesting is the wrong word, but it, it, it becomes a bit more [00:50:00] dynamic maybe.
Yeah. Well, well, here at church, I know, um, when you guys got married, we did something like marriage prep, didn't we? Yeah. And we talk. Very specifically about leaving and cleaving. And that means, you know, um, as mom and dad, you, you know, your kids are, they're preparing to leave you. And, and I will culture you slightly different.
I know people, more people go to university in recent times than before, but within the marriage context, you know, it's a case of leaving and cleaving and that really means you have to let them go. And I thought, I'm, I'm, I'll be terrible at this, but you know what? I think, because we do, I've shared this so many times with so many people, we became really good at releasing our kids to go into the, um, marriage relationships.
Um, and I find that by releasing them, we have different conversations. Where before I would've, you know, when they were at home said, you probably need to look at your, are you living in your budget? Are you doing this? Are you doing this? Are you doing this? Or maybe a bit stronger. And they would [00:51:00] say, but you know.
When we released them as they were getting married, we FII found that they were coming back to me asking me about stuff. Yeah. Uh, and I was really just shocked. Yeah. You know, and they were asking me about stuff that I wasn't really that afraid with, but they were trying to involve me in it. And that's a, it's a different relationship.
Yeah, yeah. You know, so you can offer a contribution, but they, whilst they, they don't have to do what you tell them, you know, but they do still need to honor you. Yeah. So true. I found actually that, um, when I had kids, the nature of the relationship I had with my own dad also started to change because I think I, for the first time I understood my dad.
Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And, and when you grow up as a teen, he is a, you know, is this is what, not that I ever said anything bad dad, obviously, but um. I think you, you understand that, right? And this is something that I think my kids are now noticing as they're getting older. It's like, ah, [00:52:00] I'm starting to get some of that.
I'm starting to get some of that. And um, I think just about all of my kids have come to me at some point and gone, I now understood why, why you did that, right? Which is, that's wonderful moment. That can be the gold dust. Know when those things that you've prayed and modeled and it's like, and you get to the point of like, I dunno whether any of this is stuck.
And when your kids comes back and say, you know, when you did that, I can see now and this is good and I want to do that. It's like, oh, you've made it. Yeah, it is. But I think, I think release is such a good word Dave, and I think it's critical. And, and on one of those, I, I dunno what it was, but there, there's this, this graph that I talk about all the time when people have kids that I remember from some parenting course or marriage course, I dunno what it was, but it's like you, you got the X axis that, that, sorry, the y axis up the top, which is the kind of.
Level of control. And along the bottom you've got time. And when they're babies, I mean literally newborns, a hundred percent [00:53:00] control, they cannot do anything for themselves. Mm-hmm. They need to, they can't even lift their heads. So you are up here a hundred percent control, and as they get older, the control needs to lessen.
Mm. And there's another line on this graph, which is influence. And it, you start with a newborn influence is right down at zero. Really? I mean, they, they, they haven't got language. It's, yeah, it's not entirely zero, but you know, it's mostly about control. But as they get older, you are influencing. And at some point these lines cross and the control needs to be less than the influence.
And by the time they're adults, it's like job done. They're making their own decisions. They're, they're independent. They, they, they're like, you don't have any kind of. The same sort of legal authority over your kids. Mm. And if you've done your job right. And, and then the, the real killer blow is like many adults just stay in a hundred percent control or an attempt to Yeah.
Because you know it's safer, isn't it? Yeah. It's like I want to instruct my kids entirely in control every decision they make. And, [00:54:00] and that leads to a broken relationship. It's, there's a very natural diminishing of the control over what our kids do. And that has always been really helpful to me. I think for our kids, we've always been, again, a step behind with it, like to be, but um, I mean our kids are only just kind of leaving home now and, and I dunno what that looks like as they have their own families, but, um, but yeah, it's right about the, the sort of phone calls I get from my kids now are like.
Problems of adult life. Like, dad, can you do this and go, the bank will not talk to me. It's not my account. You have to wait in the queue for half an hour. I'm sorry.
It's good. It's, I, being a dad I think is, is one of the best things I've ever done without a doubt. You know? And um, but I think in the closing minutes that we have one question that has come up that I do wanna deal with, uh, deal with in a few minutes, but at least talk about what happens when, if we're Christians and as our kids grow, they don't walk with God.
Right. How [00:55:00] do, how do we deal when our kids make decisions that aren't necessarily in line with our faith or our beliefs or the way that we've brought them up? Yeah. That's, um, I think lots of Christians who have got older kids, um, who aren't walking with God, um, I spend a lot of my time saying, believe in the seed that you've sown into their lives.
Yeah. And, um, you know, when you sew a, a farmer, I'm, I'm, I, I met this farmer a couple of months ago and I was, I was so impacted by all the stories he told about, you know, crops and everything, but a farmer never sews, expecting to get less than what he sew. Yeah. You know, so I would encourage you if your kids aren't walking, um, with God in a, in a way that is obvious to you, just a couple things.
Um, one is you don't know what God is doing in them. He's a personal savior. He's a personal God. They may not be doing church the way you want [00:56:00] them to, but don't give up on them. Keep praying for them. You know, keep praying that God will, will shape them. They may never do church the way you do it. You know, they may, may never come to church with you, but the goal is that they have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
But you know, do yourself a favor. And pray Well, by thanking God for the seed that you've sown mm-hmm. Over the years into their lives, and there will be a harvest, honestly. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Receive that. And, and I think, I mean, it, it speaks again to the kind of control, it'd be lovely if we could plot these piles and say, this is what our kids are gonna be like.
But, but I think don't, don't give up on the modeling of Godly character. Don't give up actually on the, the speaking about God's word. Um, and our responses to that are, are very telling and very instrumental to our kids of what God's nature really is like. And, and if we kind of say, okay, well that's it.
I'm never talking to you again. It's like, well, that's not a [00:57:00] great advert for God is it? And God's grace and, and love and favor. Um, but yeah. Challenging, challenging journey. Yeah, it is, without a doubt. So last question. Uh, we've got two, we've got two minutes. Chaps. Uh, last question. Um. If you listen to this or you know, maybe it's maybe not even listening to this, maybe it's just something you've been feeling for a while.
If you feel like you've messed up as a dad, what do you do? So you're sorry. So you ask God. Um, so you, if it's appropriate, um, to do, speak to your kids, obviously depending on how old they are, um, let them know. Talk to your wife and pray. Pray with your wife that, um, that God would forgive you and strength we're stewards that you know that, that his possession and, um, you know, good just expects us to do our best.
Yeah. To love our kids. And I, and I would, I really wanna say, you know, your kids need to know [00:58:00] that you love them. You may hate what they're doing at this moment in time. You may really be concerned about them in so many different ways. They need to know. And we're not always good at doing this, that we love them in spite of what they're doing.
Yeah. Even if we despise what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All that. But I'd also just add, and I said it in the talk, don't give up. Um, it, it's never, you know, even if your kids are 50, it's not too late to continue to be their dad. And, and even if there's been distance and non-communication for 20 years, you need to lead, you need to make that step and say, I wanna do this differently.
I, I want to, I want this relationship to be different. Do not give up. It's never too late. Yeah. That's good. Very good. Um, and of course the, the other thing to say here is, um, if you have had a dad where you feel like, well, he's not been the best dad. [00:59:00] Um, one, try and walk in his shoes a little bit. Mm-hmm.
Would be my, uh, honest advice. Being a dad, you tend to do walking your dad's shoes a little bit, don't you? Mm. Uh, but two forgiveness. Um, you've gotta forgive them regardless of what they've done, and so would encourage you to go back and listen to Sharon's talk on forgiveness, um, and, and, and go through that, uh, where your dad's concerned.
Um, but yeah, sorry. It's, we trying to cram a massive topic in such a short period of time. Um, but it's just worth saying that being a dad for me is just so life giving and it just feels so godly because you're, I mean, you are being like, God, you are modeling God. Um, it's a remarkable gift. Kids don't always do what you want 'em to do.
Um, but it's a remarkable gift and we get to live that. And so for that, I'm very grateful we get to do it different. I don't have to do it, um, the way our culture would expect. Um, and you know what? All my kids still talk to [01:00:00] me and we are all going quite well. So done something right. Not quite sure what, but we've definitely done something.
Right. Right. Um, now also to say just in a few months time, we're also gonna get into this role of spiritual fathers. We're gonna talk about that specifically because that's a really key topic in the Bible as well. So we are gonna get into that next week. We are talking about motherhood. Uh, Sharon's doing that.
Talk on what it means to be a mum. You're not gonna wanna miss that one. Um, we are gonna open up the Google Meets room. Um, I see the link is in the comments, so if you want to join us, um, just come to the Google Meet, go Crowd Church slash meet. Um, that'll take you to the right URL. Uh, we will see you in there.
Come and say hello for a few minutes. It'd be great to see you. Um, if you're watching this on Catchup, thanks for joining us. Uh, why don't come join us live, joining the comments, joining Conversation Street at some point. It'd be great to see you in there. Um, but yeah, I think. That's it from me. Anything else from you guys in closing?[01:01:00]
Nope, that's it. Awesome. You're all a bunch of legends. Have a phenomenal week wherever you are in the world. I'll see you next time. Bye for now.