When Enough Is Never Enough

22 Feb

YouTube Video of the Church Service

When John D. Rockefeller — the world's first billionaire — was asked how much money was enough, he replied: "Just a little bit more."

It's one of those quotes that makes you laugh and wince at the same time. Because if the richest man on earth couldn't shake that feeling, what hope do the rest of us have? This week, Pete Farrington kicked off a new five-part series on money at Crowd Church. And within the first few minutes, it was clear we weren't really talking about money at all. We were talking about something far deeper — longing, trust, fear, and where we look for security.

Money Is Never Neutral

Jesus talked about money more than almost any other subject. And in Matthew 6:24, he says:

"No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."

The word translated as "money" here is the Greek word mammon, and Jesus isn't just talking about cash. He's personifying wealth. He's setting it up as a rival master, one that competes with God for your loyalty, your trust, your affection.

Which means money isn't neutral. It's either your servant or your master. And the uncomfortable question Pete put to us is this: which one is it for you?

What Does Your Spending Actually Reveal?

John Piper's framing helps us here because serving money means calculating your whole life around what money promises to give you. Your decisions, your plans, your goals, all arranged to get the maximum benefit from wealth.

But serving God, Pete says, works the same way; you arrange your whole life to position yourself under the waterfall of everything God promises to be for you.

So take a look at your spending. Your savings. The things you're working towards. What do they reveal about where your real trust sits?

The Trap the Bible Keeps Warning About

1 Timothy 6 puts it plainly:

"Godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare..."

And then comes the verse that's often misquoted. It doesn't say money is the root of all evil. It says the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. That's a crucial difference. You can be broke and still love money. You can be wealthy and hold it with an open hand. This isn't about how much you have — it's about where you've placed your trust.

As Pete put it: "If you love money, you will dash the system of your heart to pieces so that all you have left are broken shards with which to scoop up sewage water that will only poison and kill and never satisfy. And all the while, the waterfall of God's love stands behind you, just waiting to quench your thirst."

Stewards, Not Owners

Psalm 24 opens with a simple but radical claim: "The Earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."

Everything. Which means, theologically speaking, we own nothing.

King David understood this. When he handed over an enormous fortune to his son, Solomon, to build the temple, he refused to take credit. He says in 1 Chronicles 29: "Everything comes from you, and we have only given you what comes from your hand."

Even the ability to earn money, Pete points out, is a gift. Deuteronomy 8 says it's God who gives us the power to produce wealth. So the question isn't just what we do with our money — it's whether we genuinely see ourselves as stewards of someone else's resources rather than owners of our own.

It changes things. Dan Orange put it well in the conversation afterwards: when you spend money at work, you justify it. You think it through. You're accountable. What would change if you approached your personal finances the same way?

The Rich Young Ruler and the Question He Couldn't Answer

There's a story in the Gospels of a young man who came to Jesus asking what he needed to do to inherit eternal life. He'd kept all the commandments since he was young. Impressive. But Jesus looks at him and says, "You lack one thing. Sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Come, follow me."

The man walked away sad because he had great wealth and wasn't willing to let it go.

His problem, Pete noted, wasn't that he had possessions. It was that he viewed them as a surer source of satisfaction than Jesus. He couldn't imagine a life without them being central to his security.

I wonder if we'd walk away sad, too.

Too Many of Us Are Planning for Retirement But Not for Eternity

That's the challenge Pete left us with — drawn from a sobering Psalm 49, which reminds us that no amount of wealth can ransom a life. The rich and poor alike leave it all behind. As Ade Birkby put it simply in the conversation afterwards: "We come into this world with nothing. We leave this world with nothing."

The eternal perspective doesn't make money irrelevant. It just reframes it entirely.

Matt Edmundson made a good point about pensions. Planning ahead isn't faithless — think of Joseph storing grain ahead of the famine. The parable of the talents commends wise investment. Financial stewardship makes sense. The question is always: where is your trust? Is your pension your provider — or is God?

Conversation Street

Is debt the same as serving mammon — even when you haven't got much?

Pete's point in the talk was that a poor person can serve mammon by obsessing over getting it just as easily as a rich person can serve it by obsessing over keeping it. Matt pointed out that you don't need money to love it. Debt can become its own master — when your identity, your anxiety, your daily mental energy revolves around money you don't have.

How do you actually live contentedly? Is it possible to enjoy money without being mastered by it?

This is the tension Sharon raised in the comments, and it's real. God gives good gifts. Scripture talks about enjoying what we have. But it also warns against letting those gifts become gods. Ade and his wife Sonia have navigated some hard seasons marked by health challenges in recent years — and, through that, found themselves asking what actually matters—less about spending, and more about clarity about what brings joy. Dan wrestles with it too — holidays, home repairs, the competing pulls of generosity and everyday need.

Matt's take was simple and honest: there are no hard-and-fast rules here. It ultimately comes down to — are you using money, or is money using you? Ade framed it well: "Who's the tool?"

Can you share a personal example of trusting God with money?

Three stories came from the hosts — each quietly remarkable.

Ade talked about the early years of his marriage, moving from North Wales to the Midlands, unable to find engineering work, his business ideas stalling. A season that felt like failure. But looking back, he can see how that time built a relationship with his stepdaughter that he might otherwise have missed. "Very often the things that we pray for deliverance from can be some of the greatest areas of God's grace in our lives."

Dan left a secure job at BT early in his marriage without a clear plan — just a sense that he needed to trust. It's been up and down, he says. But the freedom that came from that decision, including a trip around the world with his wife before they had kids, he now counts as a blessing he almost talked himself out of.

Matt told the story of praying for Duracell batteries as a student, specifically Duracell, because they were the best. Walking out of his student house the next morning to find a pack of four on the wall outside, two already removed, just the two he'd asked for. It sounds small. But it was the beginning of something much bigger: the realisation that God can be trusted with everything — including the things that feel too trivial to pray about.

What Now?

If you want to take a step forward this week, here are a few simple places to start:

Ask the master question. Is money working for you, or are you working for money? Ade's framing — "who's the tool?" — is worth sitting with honestly.

Look at your spending as a spiritual document. Not to feel guilty. But to notice what it reveals about where your real trust sits.

Pray before you spend. Not obsessively. But Dan's point about insurance and pensions is a good one: the same decision made prayerfully is a different kind of decision.

Hold things with an open hand. Before your next significant purchase, ask: Am I losing something, or returning something? The stewardship question can quietly change how you see everything.

Plan for eternity, not just retirement. Matthew 6 says to lay up treasure in heaven. That doesn't mean don't save — it means don't save to the exclusion of investing in things that last.

Pete closed with Psalm 49: "To live with understanding is to trust in a God who will keep his promises."

The world will keep offering you just a little bit more. The question is whether you believe that's actually what you need — or whether there's something (someone) that can satisfy in a way money never will.

[00:00:00] Matt Edmundson: Well, good evening and welcome to Crowd Church. My name's Matt. Sorry about the technical glitch. There we're a few minutes late, uh, but we seem to have resolved it at least. I hope we have. We were basically gonna hear aid twice, twice, and as much as I like aid, I don't wanna hear him twice. Um, so yeah, very warm.
Welcome to you. Uh, it's great that you are with us.
## [00:00:24] How Crowd Works: Live Lounge on Google Meet
[00:00:24] Matt Edmundson: Um, if you, this is your first time with us. Uh, Crowd is an online church. Uh, so we do church, but we do it online. So towards the end of the service we're gonna have something which we call live Lounge. Uh, and so at about, I guess about 40 minutes or so, somewhere around there.
I'm just looking at the clock on my right. Uh, we will go into Live Lounge, um, which is where we just get together on Google Meet. So, uh, if you're around, come say How's it? Uh, it'd be great to see you. It's just like a Zoom basically, but just on Google, Google Meet, the URL is Go Crowd Church slash meet and hopefully my beautiful wife who's on the comments, we'll put that in the comments.
Uh, go Crowd Church slash meet MEET.
## [00:01:13] Meet the Hosts (Matt, Dan & Aid) \+ Tonight’s Money Series Intro
[00:01:13] Matt Edmundson: Now to my left is the beautiful Dan, uh, Dan say, how's it?
[00:01:18] Dan Orange: Hello, Matthew.
[00:01:19] Matt Edmundson: Hello. How you doing? Uh, and joining us, uh, to also host with us is aid all the way from North Wales. Uh, can we see aid. How you doing aid?
[00:01:31] Ade Birkby: Hello? I'm okay, thank you. Just the one of me
[00:01:34] Matt Edmundson: just, it is just one of you, which we're all grateful for eight.
Uh, but it's good to have you join us. So we are gonna be hosting Crowds Night there, three of us, which is great. We've got Pete Farrington, uh, kicking off our series about money, which is always a bit of a
[00:01:49] Dan Orange: mm,
[00:01:50] Matt Edmundson: a bit of a juicy topic.
[00:01:51] Dan Orange: Yeah, I'm loving this and it's, I was thinking about it, um, today. It is for everyone, isn't it?
Yeah. Who lives. Doesn't matter if you've, you've got money. You haven't got money, doesn't matter if you, I was thinking it doesn't matter if you, you barter, you don't use cash. It's the same thing. It's where are your priorities? How would you live? Yeah. Um, yeah. What's first in your life? You know, what rules your life.
Oh yeah. I'm looking forward to Pete's talk.
[00:02:18] Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely. Me too.
## [00:02:19] Shoutouts, Comments & How to Join the Conversation
[00:02:19] Matt Edmundson: So before we get started, let me give a shout. Jody's in the comments. Jody, how you doing? How's little Beynon? Hopefully you're doing well. Uh, Sharon's in the comments. Uh, Luna, also known as Roz is in the comments. So, hey Roz, how you doing?
Um. Lady Burke B is in the comments who happens to be AID'S wife. So aid you best be on your best behavior son. Um, so yeah, very warm. Welcome to everybody joining us. If you are also watching, you can join in, in the comments. Um, and any questions you wanna ask, put 'em in the comments. We'll try and get to those in Conversation Street after the talk.
Any of your own thoughts, any stories you wanna share? Um, do let us know. Put those in the comments. Um, but yeah, aid, have I missed anything?
[00:03:08] Ade Birkby: I don't think so.
[00:03:11] Dan Orange: Just put him on the spot there. Yeah. He's like,
[00:03:13] Matt Edmundson: what?
[00:03:15] Dan Orange: You just, you just say it's like international time delay.
[00:03:20] Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Something like that. Absolutely. Well, listen, without further ado, let's get Pete Farrington on doing the talk then Dan, and I'll be back for Conversation Street with aid. So make sure you write your questions, et cetera in the comments.
We'd love to see you in there. Um, but yeah, here's Pete.
## [00:03:36] Pete Farrington Begins: Why the Bible Talks So Much About Money
[00:03:36] Pete Farrington: Hello Crowd. It's lovely to be with you today and welcome to week one of our five part series on money. Over the coming weeks, we're gonna be unpacking different aspects of money and what the Bible has to say about it all. But for today, I'm gonna try and give like a 30,000 foot view, if you like, of the the who and the what money is for now, whether we realize it or not.
We all have a relationship with money. But I think for many of us, we never really stopped to examine what kind of relationship that is. And if you've never read much of the Bible, you would be shocked to discover just how much the Bible talks about this subject. In fact, Jesus only spoke about three other subjects more than money.
And the Bible holds up a mirror to the human heart, and it's no less effective or relevant than it was 2000 years ago, maybe. I mean, maybe back then they were trading with camels and goats, and now, now we do so with digits on a computer screen. But in terms of the human heart, nothing's changed as it was 2000 years ago.
So it is today. And Jesus knew then what a snare money can be, and it's the same today. And it's interesting 'cause I was preparing this talk. It only took me about two minutes to realize like we we're not really talking about money. Today we're talking about something far deeper than that. We're talking about longing and desire and hope and safety and fear.
Now, when John d Rockefeller, who was the world's first billionaire, was asked How much money is enough, he famously replied just a little bit more. And I think we can all relate with that. Maybe not with being a billionaire, but I mean, maybe you do relate with that, but, but we all know that feeling of like, oh, if I just had that little bit more then I'd feel secure.
And, and so we all understand how easy it is to become a slave to money or a slave to attaining or maintaining a certain, a certain lifestyle or standard of living or that next thing we're hoping to acquire.
## [00:05:48] God vs Mammon: Money as Master or Servant (Matthew 6:24)
[00:05:48] Pete Farrington: So let's go to a verse in the Sermon on the Mount, which is where Jesus went to great lengths to to address internal motivations and not just external behavior.
He said this in Matthew six verse 24. No one can serve two masters for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money. Now in most of our English bibles, we see the word money there, but in the original language it's, it's this word mammon from the Greek Maas, which is like treasure or riches or wealth.
So Jesus says we cannot serve God and mammon. And what he's doing here is he's personifying wealth and then setting him up as a rival master who is competing with God for our service and our affections and our allegiance. And this is of great significance because it means that money isn't neutral.
It's an excellent servant, but it's a terrible master. Now, in, in Roman culture, at the time to be in debt was to be a client or a servant to a patron. And so the audience would've understood serving two masters viscerally, they would've known like you literally could not belong to two estate owners at the same time.
So this wasn't just a metaphor them, this was part of their experience. And when it comes to money, I think Christians often go to one of two extremes of viewing having much as evidence of God's blessing and favor or viewing having little as some higher form of spirituality, and then arrogantly, assuming the worst of people who have more than us, that there's a lot of that around today, but neither pride in luxury.
Nor pride in lack is good. They're both pride and they're both like a form of trying to save yourself of ransoming your life. And you don't have to be rich to serve mammon. You just have to trust money more than God for your security. 'cause a poor person can serve mamon too by obsessing over getting it just as easily as a rich person can serve.
Mammon by obsessing over keeping it. So this isn't. It's just about how much, it's not about how much you have. This is about where you place your trust. So is money your servant or your master. It's so interesting that God speaks about himself and mammon as, as these two contrasting masters, and it really begs the question, so in like in what way does one serve money and what does our service of money reveal?
Uh, to us about how we should rightly serve God. John Piper and Pax, these two questions like this, he says, serving money doesn't mean doing things to meet money's need. You serve money by calculating all your plans, your efforts to benefit from what money promises you. You calculate your whole life to benefit from what money promises you.
Your life revolves around trying to put yourself in the position of the greatest benefit from money. Now, that's also what it means to serve God. He continues to say you serve God by calculating all your plans and all your efforts to benefit from all that God promises to be for you. Your life revolves around trying to put yourself under the waterfall of God's greatest blessing, positioning yourself for the greatest benefit God has to give.
Namely himself. I really do think that the truest form of worship is, is found in our attending to whatever it is in which we find the most satisfaction is putting our investment in the place which we believe will give us the greatest return. So is money your servant or your master?
## [00:09:48] What Your Spending Reveals: Treasure, Worship & Eternal Profit
[00:09:48] Pete Farrington: And here's another question.
What does your spending and your saving reveal about who or what you really trust? Because I think a, a real Christian lives for profit and a true Christian lives for gain, a Christian lives for wealth, and he will die in the pursuit of it too. Now, you might hear me say that, whoa, whoa, I beat you. Can't say that.
You can't say that. But time after time in the Old Testament, God rebukes his people for rejecting and forsaking him and turning away to, to lowercase gods. Made by their own hands that can never profit them. It uses that language over and over and over again. In the Old Testament, a real Christian lives for profit, and I could prove this just by going back a few verses in Matthew six from that passage.
In the Sermon on the Mount, it says in verse 19, do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth. Where moths and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. Now a lot of us will just stop there and, okay, that's what I shouldn't do. But he continues. But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in and steal for where your treasure is there, your heart will be also a real Christian.
Piles up treasures for himself in heaven. And this is why I believe that some of the most authentic worship actually happens outside of church and outside of Christianity, where we don't see the same pretense of leaving your hunger and thirst at the door. Because this world is full of people who unashamedly declare with their actions.
I am trying to maximize my pleasure and comfort here in this life. But a true Christian says, I am trying with all my life and even with my money to maximize my pleasure and joy and comfort in God for all eternity. That's what a true Christian does.
## [00:12:05] Contentment vs Craving: The Love of Money (1 Timothy 6)
[00:12:05] Pete Farrington: Let's go to one Timothy chapter six, verses six to 10, but godliness with contentment is great gain.
For, we brought nothing into the world and we cannot take anything outta the world. But if we have food and clothing with these, we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, and into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction for the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils.
It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith. And have pierced themselves with many pangs. Now, note there that it doesn't say those who desire to own a business so that they can produce jobs and wealth for others, or those who desire to fund missionaries around the world, or those who desire to build orphanages and hospitals and schools.
Now it's talking about those who desire to be rich. I just want to be rich. That's the type of person it's talking about here. Lemme say it this way. If you, if you love money, you will dash the system of your heart to pieces so that all you have left are broken ards with which to scoop up sewage water that will only poison and kill and never satisfy.
And all the while, the waterfall of God's love stands behind you just waiting to quench your thirst. That's what it's talking about when it says the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. That's what it's talking about when it says the desire to be rich is talking about those who put their trust and their faith in money to satisfy.
It also says in one Timothy six, as for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. So money is an excellent servant, but it's a terrible master and mammon. Makes countless promises in exchange for your soul and he can keep none of them.
Conversely, God is a, is a wonderful master and he makes countless promises in exchange for all of your hunger, and he will keep every single one of those promises we read there that we brought nothing into the world and we can take nothing out of the world.
## [00:14:52] Stewardship, Not Ownership: Everything Belongs to God
[00:14:52] Pete Farrington: So another question we, we really need to consider here is whose world are we living in?
It says in Psalm 24 verse one, the Earth is the Lord's and everything in it. Everything. So here's the thing, theologically, we own nothing. King David, towards the end of his life, had amassed a huge fortune, which he was gonna pass down to his son Solomon, to build a temple for God. And in this moment of his, his greatest financial contribution, this legacy gift that he was giving to his son, he refuses to take credit for it.
He says this in one Chronicles 29. But who am I and who are my people that we should be able to give as generously as this? Everything comes from you and we have only given you what comes from your hand. And Deuteronomy eight, it says, beware lest you say in your heart, my power and the might of my hand have God, me this wealth.
You shall remember the Lord your God for it is He who gives you power to get wealth. Even the, even the getting of your wealth, even your working for it is a gift from God. Nothing that we have here is, is truly ours. And so we are to think of ourselves not as owners, but as stewards. This is absolutely core.
Really to everything that we're gonna talk about over the coming weeks. So how could your management of money more closely reflect stewardship than ownership? Like when you give, do you feel like you are losing something or returning something? And what would change? How would, how would you manage your finances differently if you genuinely believed that you were managing someone else's money?
## [00:16:59] Tithing & Whole-Life Worship: The Other 90% Matters Too
[00:16:59] Pete Farrington: Now, just as an example, and I'm not going to go into detail into this, uh, 'cause there's just not the time for it today, but there's this mad thing that Christians have done for millennia called tithing. You, you might have heard of it, uh, but part of the, it, it's, it's where Christians give 10% of their, their, their first and their best back to God.
And part of the meaning and purpose of tithing is a recognition and acknowledgement that everything belongs to God. Everything. And if you've been a Christian for a while like me, if. You, you, you probably have forgotten a bit about how counter-cultural this is and how mad to the world this is, that like you give 10% and then obviously your, your taxes is gonna go as well, and then whatever's left, that's, you know, that's mine.
And it's easy. It's easy if you've been a Christian while to think like that. Like, God, this percent is yours and the rest is all mine. And, you know, and it just goes out in a standing order or a direct debit and you don't even really think about it much. But it's not just that, that 10% is, is god's and and giving of that giving of that tithe is, is worship.
But actually the other 90% is also part of our worship to God and it's all his anyway. But that's kind of what we like to do, isn't it? We like to com compartmentalize our lives so that we can kind of retain at least a part of it to be a lowercase guard of something. Our own little, our own little domain.
But true worship of God is to, is to reject the sewage water of this world and that lie that this is mine, true worship, is to arrange all of life, including our money, so that we can stand beneath that waterfall of God's all satisfying love with every ounce of our longing. And our trust and to drink deeply there.
## [00:18:58] Warnings About Wealth \+ The Rich Young Ruler
[00:18:58] Pete Farrington: And the truth is that many of the people that we look up to in this world, so many of the people that we are in awe of and even aspire to be according to biblical standards, many of these people belong in the category of fools. And so where we would. Look and say, wow, what an accomplishment that is. The Bible says What foolishness and where we would look and say, wow, that's amazing success.
The Bible would say, what utter tragedy, and the Bible is just replete with warnings about the perils of trusting in wealth. Note that trusting in wealth, Proverbs 11 says, rich is. Do not profit. There's that language. Again, riches do not profit in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death. It goes on to say, when the wicked dies, his hope will perish and the expectation of wealth perishes too.
Further on in verse 20, then verse 28, whoever trusts in his riches will fall, but the righteous will flourish like a green leaf. I. Okay. There's a story in the New Testament where, uh, a young rich man goes to Jesus and, and he says to him, what, what must I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus replies by saying, oh, you know the commandments.
Do not murder. Do not commit adultery. Do not steal. Do not bear false witness. Do not defraud honor your father and mother. And the guy replies by saying, but I've, I've done all these things from my youth. And then Jesus responds by saying, you lack one thing. Go sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven and come follow me.
Now, the man's issue was not that he had great possessions. His problem was that he was unwilling to give them up. And why was that? It is because he viewed them as a surer source of satisfaction than Jesus. And on almost every page in the gospels in the New Testament, Jesus is trying to turn people's thoughts to eternity.
He actually didn't even scold this man for desiring. In fact, he appealed to that man's desire. Verse 21, he said, you lack one thing. Sell all that you have and give to the poor. Now, he could have stopped there, right? But he didn't. He continued. Sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
We've heard that before, haven't we? Now, the reality is that too many of us are preparing for retirement, but not for eternity. So.
## [00:22:01] Psalm 49 Finale: Don’t Trust Riches—Trust God’s Promises
[00:22:01] Pete Farrington: As we draw this to a close, I'm going to, uh, leave you with a psalm. It's a, it's a sobering psalm, but it's really powerful. Psalm 49 says this, hear this all peoples give ear, all inhabitants of the world, both low and high, rich and poor together.
Verse verse five, it continues. Why should I fear in times of trouble when the iniquity of those who cheat me surrounds me? Those who trust in their wealth and boast in the abundance of their riches, truly no man can ransom another or give to God. The price of his life for the ransom of their life is costly and can never suffice, that he should live on forever.
Never see the pit. For he sees that even the wise die, the fool and the stupid alike must perish and leave their wealth to others, their graves or their homes forever. They're dwelling places to all generations. Though they're called lands by their own names, man in his pomp will not remain. He is like the beasts, the perish.
This is the path of those who have foolish confidence. Yet after them, people approve of their boasts like sheep. They are appointed for sheel. Death shall be their shepherd, and the upright shall rule over them in the morning. The form shall be consumed in Sheel with no place to dwell. But God will ransom my soul from the power of Sheel, for he will receive me.
Be not afraid. When a man becomes rich, when the glory of his house increases for when he dies, he will carry nothing away. His glory will not go down after him. For though while he lives, he counts himself. Blessed, and though you get praise when you do well for yourself. His soul will go to the generation of his fathers, who will never again see light man in his PO is yet without understanding man in his pomp.
Yet without understanding is like the beasts that perish to live with understanding is to trust in a God who will keep his promises. So today, do not trust, do not serve a master who makes promises he can't keep. But serve God. He's a good master and he will keep every promise to the end. Thanks very much.
## [00:24:36] Conversation Street Starts: First Reactions to Pete’s Talk
[00:24:36] Matt Edmundson: Wow. Where do, where do you even start, right, because thanks Pete. What a legend you are. And I, I just love when I, I could listen to Pete like all day. The, the man is so rich in what he says. Um. So, uh, yeah, thanks for that aid. I want to go to you straight away, man. Uh, what did you get from that talk?
[00:25:02] Ade Birkby: I, uh.
## [00:25:04] Stewardship in Real Life: Assets, Eternity & ‘You Can’t Take It With You’
[00:25:04] Ade Birkby: I think the, the ownership versus stewardship comes, comes through really well here.
I mean, talking about we come into this world with nothing. We leave this world with nothing. Yeah. And, uh, you know, very true. Yet you think about it, you, you know, you go and buy a house. Your name is on made deed. It's an asset. You buy a car, your name's on the bit of paper. It's an asset. And we think about this as our asset, but ultimately the assets that we acquire.
Gonna be passed on to someone else or end up in landfill or whatever, because we can't take them with us.
[00:25:35] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:25:36] Ade Birkby: And therefore it brings it back to, you know, money really is something that we, we have for a short duration of time that we are stewards of, just like everything else.
[00:25:46] Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It's an interesting idea, isn't it, Dan?
This idea of stewardship role and ownership.
[00:25:51] Dan Orange: Yeah. Yeah. That's why I wrote down that comment that you put, um, how would you think of. Of money if it was someone else's and you were just stewarding it. Yeah. It'd be very different, wouldn't it? Like at work, you've got to, if you got, if you've got to buy something, you've gotta justify it, haven't you?
You can't just go way nearly just spending that money. You, you think about it a bit more. Yeah. And I, I really like that.
[00:26:13] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:26:13] Dan Orange: That way of thinking.
[00:26:15] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:26:15] Dan Orange: Yeah,
[00:26:16] Matt Edmundson: yeah. It's really powerful, this whole idea of, um, stewardship, uh, Jen. Uh, like a said in the comments, you can't take it with you when you go, and I just responded.
I don't think you need to.
[00:26:28] Dan Orange: No. When the were, the streets are paved for gold,
we can't take enough there.
[00:26:34] Matt Edmundson: No. You apparently Jesus talks about, uh, in eternities prepared a house for us, you know? Right. Knowing Jesus, the little bit of I know him. That house is gonna be a, has.
[00:26:48] Dan Orange: It's gonna, it's gonna be pretty awesome. Isn't
[00:26:49] Matt Edmundson: Well, it's gonna be. Here's the thing. I think it will. If the, like you say, if the streets are, are paved with gold, what's he made your house out of?
Mm-hmm. Right. And not that I care in many ways. I think I'll just be glad I'm in heaven.
[00:27:01] Dan Orange: Yeah. I think we'll just be looking at him, won't we?
[00:27:03] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:27:03] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:27:04] Matt Edmundson: I think I will. But I, I do wanna slide down, I've said this before on Crowd might, one of my chief aims is to slide down those streets of gold in my socks.
Right. So, yeah, you don't actually need to take it with you when you go. And I think actually one of the things about eternity, um. Aid. I dunno if you thought about this or maybe you got some insight in it, but one of the things about eternity is I think when we, when we sort of are in it and we look back to this, everything will pale into insignificance, right?
[00:27:33] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:27:35] Matt Edmundson: Aid got any thoughts on that?
[00:27:37] Ade Birkby: Yeah. We're certainly not going to be wondering, Ooh, does my American Express card.
[00:27:45] Matt Edmundson: Yes.
[00:27:46] Ade Birkby: Yeah. You know, I think it eternity to me, it just, you know, yeah, we can understand the, the concept of it, but, you know, just trying to imagine it back, it was beyond my pay grade, you know, it's gonna be so mind blowing to what we, we currently know and understand now, I think. There won't be many things, if anything, that we are thinking about from this life.
Um, you know, hopefully the relationships we've had and those have gone with us, but other than that, I, you know, we're, we're not gonna be thinking about the wealth we had down here. Yeah.
[00:28:17] Matt Edmundson: Yeah. I agree. It's one of those, and I think if you don't have a mindset of eternity, right,
[00:28:23] Dan Orange: then it, then it's here, isn't it?
It's here
[00:28:25] Matt Edmundson: and now then, then it makes total sense. I wanna accumulate as much as I can, and so even. Darwin's theory of, you know, evolution in terms of the survival of the fittest. Let me accumulate, let me get more than anybody else. Um, let me amass wealth so I can live, you know, this lifestyle that I wanna live.
That makes sense. If there's no eternity,
[00:28:46] Dan Orange: yeah.
[00:28:47] Matt Edmundson: Right. Why, why would it not make sense? But in this, in the concept and in the ideology of eternity. Yeah. Then you can see why Jesus is going store it for yourself. Treasured in heaven.
[00:28:59] Dan Orange: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And even, even on earth, that amassing it. It's that slave being a slave to it, isn't it?
Like that, that quote from, um, Rockefeller, how much is Enough?
[00:29:11] Matt Edmundson: Oh, just a little bit more.
[00:29:12] Dan Orange: Just a little bit more. It's a
[00:29:13] Matt Edmundson: great quote.
[00:29:13] Dan Orange: Yeah. And it's just, you know, richest man in the world. Still a slave.
[00:29:18] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:29:18] Dan Orange: Still that's, that's all that he's, yeah. In a way, that's all that he's got,
[00:29:22] Matt Edmundson: yeah.
[00:29:23] Dan Orange: Is his. Desire.
[00:29:25] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:29:25] Dan Orange: You know?
[00:29:26] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:29:26] Dan Orange: For more, not, not exactly what he, what he holds.
## [00:29:30] Judging Wealth, Using Money as a Tool & Trusting God in Lack or Plenty
[00:29:30] Matt Edmundson: There's been some interesting debate, I dunno if you've seen this on social media. Is it Billy Eish? Eilish? I dunno, how do you pronounce it? Yes. Eilish. Eilish. Have I got that right? Uh, thanks though my Gen Z daughter in the house. Um, and so she was criticizing the wealth of Elon Musk at some award ceremony.
Yes.
[00:29:48] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:29:48] Matt Edmundson: Is that right? And saying that because he's got like almost half a trillion dollars. I mean, it is obscene how much money he's got. Um, and she made some kind of comment about, you know,
[00:29:59] Dan Orange: no one owns the land, but
[00:30:01] Matt Edmundson: she lives on land that was once owned by
[00:30:04] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:30:04] Matt Edmundson: An indigenous tribe. And you're kind of like
[00:30:07] Dan Orange: in a million, you know, a couple of million pound mansion.
Yeah. And not to take, again, not to take away from that, but it, it's relativeness as well, isn't it? Yeah. You know, how, how much is to. Too much.
[00:30:18] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:30:19] Dan Orange: That argument you can just, you can debate for forever, but if it's not yours,
yeah.
[00:30:24] Matt Edmundson: If it's God's, well, this is, this is where it comes back to what you're saying about stewardship, isn't it?
Because I can look to somebody else and easily judge what they do with their money. Yeah. Right. They have too much. They're not giving enough away. They're too ostentatious. Why do you need a Ferrari? Why do you need, but then someone can look at my life and go, why do you need a van? Why do you, Do you know what I mean?
And I'm still wealthier than 98% of the people on the planet. I just, because I'm always looking in front of me of what I don't have. I mean, it, it's, it's easy to judge those people because we don't have it. But when you talk about stewardship. It is very much a case of, well, God's given me this. What am I doing
[00:31:02] Dan Orange: with it?
What am I doing with my, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:31:05] Matt Edmundson: A jump in, feel free.
[00:31:08] Ade Birkby: I'm thinking a good way of looking at it is who's the tool?
[00:31:16] Matt Edmundson: That's such a good, that's a t-shirt slogan that,
[00:31:21] Ade Birkby: but is money your tool? Or, um, or, or, or vice versa. Are, are you basically money's tool, are you looking for money?
[00:31:31] Dan Orange: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:32] Ade Birkby: That, or are you, you know, using money
[00:31:34] Dan Orange: mm-hmm.
[00:31:34] Ade Birkby: To do things. Mm-hmm. And I don't mean just, you know, to amass more things and more experiences, but are you using it wisely?
[00:31:40] Dan Orange: Yeah. And
[00:31:40] Ade Birkby: interestingly, and,
[00:31:42] Dan Orange: go on, sorry. Sorry.
[00:31:43] Ade Birkby: You could have someone, say, you could have someone with, you know, with matched exorbitant wealth or more so that that looks really flash, but they're using it in a, in a really, really positive way and they're enriching and benefit. Many others, and then you could ask someone who, you know, drives around in a beat Apil truck and it's the exact opposite.
Yeah. So it really is beyond the, what does it look like? I think it's really is. Mm-hmm. Again, who's the master or who's the tool.
[00:32:07] Dan Orange: Yeah, yeah.
[00:32:08] Matt Edmundson: Who's the tool?
[00:32:10] Dan Orange: Um, what I want, sorry, what I wanted to jump in and say was that Peter made a good point right at the beginning saying, um, that you are master. It could be having too much money, but it could not be having not enough money, having debt as well, that you, you are then your master still money, even though you haven't got it.
[00:32:33] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:32:34] Dan Orange: Um, it's where is your trust? Where is your identity? It doesn't, it is, it doesn't, it's not just for people that have money.
## [00:32:41] Money vs. the Love of Money: Clearing Up the Misquote
[00:32:41] Dan Orange: What do you do with it? It's for us that the don't, you know, we are like looking for the next pound for, you know, for the end of the month. Um,
[00:32:51] Matt Edmundson: well, you know, Pete read the verse, didn't he?
It's the love of money is the root of all evil. You can commit that sin and not have a penny.
[00:32:56] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:32:57] Matt Edmundson: Right. You don't have to have money to love money. Um, and so I think it's an often misquoted scripture that money is the root of all evil.
[00:33:05] Dan Orange: Yes. Yeah. Forget that little,
[00:33:06] Matt Edmundson: which is not entirely true. It's, oops, drop my phone.
It's the love of money that's the root of all evil. Right? And so that is not dependent. On your wealth levels.
[00:33:19] Dan Orange: Mm.
## [00:33:20] Learning Contentment (Independent of Circumstances)
[00:33:20] Matt Edmundson: Um, and it's easy. Um, it's easy to, you know, Paul says, I've been rich, I've been poor. I know what it is to be rich. I know what it is to be poor. Um, and in both those situations, I've, I've learned the secret of what it is to be content.
[00:33:32] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:33:33] Matt Edmundson: Or independent of circumstances is another way to purchase. I like
[00:33:36] Dan Orange: that. Independent of circumstances.
[00:33:37] Matt Edmundson: Yeah. It's like, I'm not, I'm not going back to what AID said, who's the tool here? And it's kind of, it's, it's learning to live in a way. Which is content with what you are steward in for. God and I That sounds so delightful.
If it, if I can do it. Mm-hmm. And it easily rolls off the tongue, but living that, that's where it gets a little bit sticky. Um, so yeah, I, I, I'm kind of curious, um, how do you aid, how do you, I suppose. Because when I think of you and Sonya, I, I think of two people, very content. I, I, I don't see, you know, I, I'd brag on aid a little bit.
I don't see Ostentatiousness. Um, what do you guys do in terms of that content lifestyle? I,
## [00:34:34] AID & Sonya’s Journey: Health Challenges, Simplicity, and Joy
[00:34:34] Ade Birkby: I, uh, I think for us, content is. Or it has been a journey of learning because we're, you know, we're, we're in the situation where we, we, we have enough to get by. We don't, you know, fully own our house and we're not kind of millionaires, but we're also, you know, we're not, we're not on the street either. What we have found is the, the health challenges that Sonya's gone through for that has gotten much, much worse over the last couple of years, has made us look at how much our lives have shrunk.
Um, and we've saved a fortune. We haven't been on the holiday in four years because we, we, we just can't.
[00:35:24] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:35:24] Ade Birkby: So there comes a point where it's kind of like, well, there's actually less things we can do. So we've been just trying to, uh, find, well, what do we have left in our life and work? Can we focus on the happiness?
[00:35:36] Matt Edmundson: Mm. Mm-hmm.
[00:35:36] Ade Birkby: Um, and, you know, make memories, do things together, we still can. Mm-hmm. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's kind of how we've, we've, uh, looked at. Yeah. It's still a, it's still a journey of discovery.
[00:35:48] Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. No, I love that. This, it's about the simplicity of it all, isn't it? Again, and, and avoid in the complication, uh, of it.
## [00:35:56] The Real Tension: Enjoying Money Without Letting It Master You
[00:35:56] Matt Edmundson: L let's put here, many is a difficult one. So many verses in the Bible. About being sensible with money and not wasting it despite the good things, whilst having lots of warnings about its misuse. Um, and, uh, Sharon said, yeah, you've, Alice, you've highlighted an, an interesting tension, hasn't you? Because it's.
I think Ellis is right. There is this interest in tension with money that on one hand God gives it you.
[00:36:23] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:36:23] Matt Edmundson: Because it is needed. I do need to pay the mortgage. I need to buy food, you know, but on the other hand, it, it really shouldn't be my master.
[00:36:32] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:36:32] Matt Edmundson: Um, and not serve it. And so, you know, we, we try to live generous lives.
We try to give, but then, you know, we do have a car and we, you know, like. I'll pay the subscription for Skyport so I can watch football games. Do you know what I mean? There's, and should I do that? Should I not? You know? And is there's some really interesting debates then, isn't there? There's a really interest in tension with what you do with your money.
[00:36:59] Dan Orange: It is a tension, isn't it? It's like we, we sometimes go away on a holiday and I do struggle with that 'cause it's like, well, where, where is my, um, where's my priority?
[00:37:12] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:37:13] Dan Orange: Of money. Should I, should we be able to do that as a family?
[00:37:16] Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:16] Dan Orange: Um, and I even, you know, I do pray about it and we do pray for it.
Like even today we're like, we'd, we'd love to go back out. We've been away the last few years and different reasons. It's been cut short. Yes. And it's like, oh, um, what's going on there? Um. But it, but it's, it's always a tension. Mm-hmm. There's, there's a hole in our bathroom wall. You know which one gets, is that not
[00:37:41] Matt Edmundson: the door?
[00:37:42] Dan Orange: No, no. There's another hole you can see through to behind the shower. Oh, okay. So, which, which one gets fixed? Yeah. Fixed first. And, and it is,
[00:37:50] Matt Edmundson: yeah,
[00:37:50] Dan Orange: it is, it is priorities.
## [00:37:52] Stewardship Check: House, Hospitality, and ‘Is It Mine or God’s?’
[00:37:52] Dan Orange: And it's, God, in, in your notes for this, there's, there's the, there's often like this, um. Gospel that everything, you know, you pray for, you get, and then there's the, well, we, we don't have any money.
We're gonna live in, in poverty. And there is that tension God provides. He provides for his children. Yeah. He has provided for us. He's brought for, for a house. And it's a, it's a nice house. Yeah. We could live in a tent and we still be all alive.
[00:38:21] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:38:23] Dan Orange: Where, where is, but, but who's holding onto that?
[00:38:27] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:38:28] Dan Orange: Who's holding onto that house? Could I. Is it mine or is it god's? Yeah. And that's a big question for me. Yeah.
[00:38:34] Matt Edmundson: And it is, it's, it's an, your house I think is an interesting one, isn't it? Because I mean, we've talked a fair bit on Crowd about hospitality. Mm. Right? And, and so you have the house at, you know. If your life, if your life allows you, I appreciate not everybody can do, it's difficult for Safe and Sonia, but that, to have that lifestyle of hospitality or that that open house where people, you know where you're using your house all the time.
It's an interesting one, isn't it?
## [00:39:01] Justifying Purchases: Boats, Tools, and Hair Transplants
[00:39:01] Matt Edmundson: And I find myself, and I dunno, Dan or aid, if you've done this where you really want something, right? Yeah. And you're like, if I get this, God, I will use it to, dot, dot, dot. Yes. Right. So a few years ago, I probably shouldn't tell this, but, um, I came back from, uh, a trip to the late district and I said to Sharon, we should get a boat.
Sharon's like, we're not getting a boat. I'm like, we could totally get a boat because wouldn't, it would be great for me. Just being out on the water is my, you know, I'm in it's lush, but also. I said, you know, the guys from church, I could take him up there. We could do discipleship in the ba. In my head, I'm trying to justify it with Christian ministry.
Sharon's like, we're not getting a boat.
[00:39:46] Dan Orange: It's the same, but But like we were talking about business, isn't it? Yeah. You have to put that justification in. I have lots of tools for my business and some of them I don't use as much as perhaps I justified the
[00:39:56] Matt Edmundson: purchase of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you ever justify a purchase like that or is it just me?
[00:40:03] Ade Birkby: Yeah, I'm, I'm like, God, if, if, if I get that hair transplant and get the, like I'll, often he does.
[00:40:16] Matt Edmundson: And it is the, he is not released it yet. No, it is not released. The, uh, the brilliant.
Oh, that is brilliant. Yeah. I can't say, as I've, I've thought about it. That's all. Uh, I, I dunno where to go with that now. Um, so yeah, so I think, I think stewardship, I think eternity, I think the tension in terms of what you spend your money on.
## [00:40:45] Pensions, Insurance, and Trust: Planning Wisely Without Replacing God
[00:40:45] Matt Edmundson: Um, Pete even mentioned something right at the end there about, um.
We're all planning our retirements, but we're not planning necessarily for fraternity. And what Pete isn't saying, lemme just be clear, is it's wrong to put him for a pension. Right. That's not what he's saying at all. But again, I think pensions are an interesting one, aren't they? Because on one hand it's financial stewardship and it makes sense.
I've got some, now I'm saving, there's examples of this, you know, like the obvious one is the drought with Joseph.
[00:41:13] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:41:13] Matt Edmundson: Um, and God telling him, you know, you're gonna have a drought for seven years, save up a bunch of grain. And they did. Um, so you, you know, you, it's a good sensible way to invest investing, you know, and, and, and growing.
We see that with the parable of the talent. So things like that make a lot of sense. The pensions make sense. It ultimately comes down to where's your trust.
[00:41:31] Dan Orange: Yeah,
[00:41:32] Matt Edmundson: right. Um, and. I think for me, I'm at that phase of life where I've not really thought about pensions until probably about two or three years ago, and I went, Hmm, I'm coming to 50.
I should probably think of better pensions. Oh, it comes
[00:41:46] Dan Orange: up quick than it. Yeah.
[00:41:49] Matt Edmundson: And because I, like Dan and I both have run our own companies. I think when you are, when you are in that sort of self-employed status, the, the pension is the last thing on your mind, isn't it? Yeah. Um, cash flow's the main thing that's on your mind.
Um, and so it's been a really interesting thing, you know, that, that, that that whole debate about Christians and pensions and, um,
[00:42:09] Dan Orange: and insurance as well. Yeah, it's another thing, isn't it? You know, you, we can assure ourselves against everything. And again, that's not, you know, that's not a bad thing, but it, it perhaps a lot of these things are, it, it's personal to you.
It's. If you, if you get insurance and you're not talking to God about it, yeah. That's not great. Yeah. If you get insurance and you're talking to God about it, that's good. Yeah.
[00:42:31] Matt Edmundson: Yeah. There's a lot, there's no hard and fast rules, is there a lot of these things? Um, so Sharon, uh, has said here, I think God wants us to enjoy life and the things we have.
As well as being generous to others.
[00:42:49] Dan Orange: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:49] Matt Edmundson: That's the tension, isn't it? That, um, talks about, so aid what's your principles, I guess? How do you do that? Right? How do you enjoy life and the things that you have as, as well as being generous to others. We're gonna talk about generosity in two weeks time.
We're gonna get into that into much more detail. So yeah, aid.
## [00:43:10] Principles Over Rules: Using Wisdom and Checking the Heart
[00:43:10] Ade Birkby: So with with, with a lot of this, there's um, obviously we've talked about various verses in the Bible that gave us guidance. God gave us brains and he intended us to use them. And I think at times we can almost over labor some of these points.
Oh, I have this money and I want to go on holiday. I haven't been for a couple of years, but really should I do it?
[00:43:30] Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:30] Ade Birkby: And if, if you look at the, how money's talked about in the Old Testament versus the New Testament, the Old Testament is very, um. Uh, what's the word for, it's almost very legal. It's like, you know, they, they had their 23% in total.
If we look at the three different, uh, types of giving we did in the Old Testament and the New Testament, it's really about being a cheerful giver. And it, it goes from the law and from the mechanics of it to the heart. And so I think with all of this, it. You know, first of all, are we using the brain God gave us and not overly analyzing this?
And second of all, where is our heart in all of this?
[00:44:07] Matt Edmundson: Mm.
[00:44:09] Ade Birkby: You know, it's okay to have a pension because you know that's the norm. It's okay to, um, you know. Own the home you live in, if, uh, you know, 'cause we're still at that point where if you can afford to, it probably makes more sense than renting.
[00:44:28] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:44:29] Ade Birkby: And so with a lot of this, it's just using the gray matter God gave us, weighing the options, but then also looking where, where's the heart in this as well.
[00:44:38] Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Very good.
[00:44:40] Dan Orange: I think, um, when Pete said right at the end about, he talked about this very Christian thing, tithing, isn't it? This Yeah. 10%. And it's, and a lot of the Christian churches have this, you know, you give 10% of, of what you have, but they forget that the 90%. Still God.
[00:44:58] Matt Edmundson: Yeah. And,
[00:44:59] Dan Orange: and that's don't be
[00:45:00] Matt Edmundson: stealing my preach then.
That's, I'm just saying. Uh, no, you're right.
## [00:45:05] Personal Stories of Faith & Provision: From Hard Seasons to Duracell Miracles
[00:45:05] Matt Edmundson: And one of the questions here that we have, uh, which I'm gonna put to, um, uh, aid, I'll go to you first. Uh, can you give me, uh, an exam, a personal example of faith and money? What has God said to you? Was there a particular situation relating to money that God spoke into?
Uh, is the question that's come in. So aid, uh, how would you answer that?
Are you like, go to dam first?
[00:45:42] Ade Birkby: I think, um, probably the nearest of that would've been when I first married Sonya and I moved from North Wales to, um, Harre. In the Midlands. Um, at the time, I'd, you know, I'd just finished a master's degree. I was trying to get my own business up and running in North Wales, and I moved in land and for, for a season it was hard.
My ideas for a business didn't work there. I couldn't find work as an engineer and. Being, you know, kind of just coming in and being the new kind of, uh, man of the house and all that and not being able to bring in a steady income was something that really, really got to me. And, uh, it was something we really had to trust in God and just pray that, um, the right doors would open.
Essentially they did.
[00:46:31] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:46:31] Ade Birkby: Um, and, and through that period I can look back and I can see how I. Grew with my faith, how it afforded me the opportunity to be a, a more present stepfather for the 5-year-old. I just happened to become dad overnight too and be able to do, you know, more, you know, more of a school runs and have more to do in her life.
And I think looking back whilst I would've liked to have been earning, then I can see how my relationship with my stepdaughter who, uh, completely voluntarily calls me dad, has been for a long time. How that was more important and you know, almost like God's grace than at the time when I would've rather, you know, been employed.
And I think very often the things that we pray for deliverance from can be some of the greatest areas of God's grace and examples of his grace in our lives.
[00:47:28] Matt Edmundson: Yeah, love that. Love that. Uh, Dan, same question to you, bud. Do you need me to repeat the question?
[00:47:35] Dan Orange: Uh, no. No, it's fine. I think for me it was, it was with work as well.
[00:47:41] Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:41] Dan Orange: So I used to work for BT in the uk It's massive. Massive company. Yeah. Huge.
[00:47:46] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:47:46] Dan Orange: Um, and I'd just, just got married and it was take, it was starting to, we'd finished a big project, it was gonna start taking me around the country and. I didn't want to do that anymore. So it was a big step. What am I gonna do here?
Yeah. And I decided to, to leave. I didn't really know what I was gonna go to and I didn't have a, I didn't have a big word down. It's fine.
[00:48:15] Matt Edmundson: No,
[00:48:16] Dan Orange: but I did know that I had to put my trust in.
[00:48:19] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:48:19] Dan Orange: God. And people did say to me, that's a risky thing.
[00:48:23] Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
[00:48:23] Dan Orange: I didn't feel that risk that that's not picking up.
Spirituality that was just, yeah, God. And it's been, it's been up and down. But I, I did leave BT and, and, um, me and Lisa before we had kids, we went for a trip round the world. You did. And that was because we were able to do it. BT gave me some money. So that sort of, that. Looking back at, back at it now, and I often do, I think, oh, but I could have used some amount of money for more deposit on a mortgage.
I could have done this, but God really, I dunno. I look at that as that, as a blessing. It was, it was a great time, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I could,
[00:49:08] Matt Edmundson: it's interesting, isn't it? Because you can earn less money. But God's blessed you.
[00:49:13] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:49:13] Matt Edmundson: Right.
[00:49:14] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:49:14] Matt Edmundson: I I think we are quite often blessing with more a bigger house, a bigger salary, a better car, you know?
[00:49:19] Dan Orange: Yeah. But it's not been that. No,
[00:49:21] Matt Edmundson: no, it hasn't. But I, it's, but it's, it's, it's still God's blessing.
[00:49:25] Dan Orange: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:49:25] Matt Edmundson: It's just, you know, we, we, we perceive it to be a linear thing. We've got to constantly evolve and move forward, but God's like a chess board. I'm just gonna leave you back here. Uh, 'cause you're, you're gonna be better off back there for a little while.
[00:49:37] Dan Orange: Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:49:38] Matt Edmundson: Thanks for that. And, and I think it's. It's one of those, isn't it? I, how would I answer the question? So many stories. Um, I think, you know, obviously I run my own company, um, and there's so many stories in the early days, but what's interesting now is at the start, I just had to pray in enough money for me.
Yeah. And, and our very young family now. Well, there's payroll, there's, there's a. There's a lot of money has to come in every month. Right. And, but the principles are still the same. Mm-hmm. Uh, exactly the same. And I, I always tell the story of, I'm, I'm, I may have told this before on Crowd, but there's a story that I'd love to share about a Walkman if you know what a Walkman is.
Do you know what a Walkman is though? I. The music thing. Yeah, it's the music thing. Um, that's the younger generation. Back before CDs, we had tapes and so a wartman played tapes. Did you have a
[00:50:37] Dan Orange: wartman? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:50:38] Matt Edmundson: And so I had a Walkman. I had a Sony Walkman. I love that thing. And I'd just become a Christian.
I was listening to teaching tapes all the time, and I remember them talking about money and faith and just praying and trusting God, and I'm like, God, awesome. I put the Walkman on. I wanted to listen to a tape. I was walking into university. Um. My plan was to do that in the morning and I was, I was kind of praying that evening and the batteries had run out.
They'd gone flat in my warman two AA batteries and I'm like, God, I need some batteries. Um, I could get some on the way, but I just heard this sermon and I was like, God, I'm just gonna pray. Could I have some batteries? Please dunno. I don't quite know what you're gonna do, but I'm just let, just have some faith and believe you for these batteries.
It all sounds a bit odd, but the next morning I got up. I put the Walkman on my belt 'cause they had belt clips and I put my headphones around my neck. Um, because obviously it wasn't working. The batteries were flat. In fact, I've taken the flat batteries out and thrown 'em in the bin. Um. And you know what?
I walked out of my house and my house at the time, the student house was one of these sort of terrorist houses in Liverpool where it has this, you know, there has a small wall between the house and the, the pavement or the sidewalk for American cousins. Um, so there's a small wall. It's like, you know, a, a couple of feet off the floor on that wall outside my house.
Because I remember when I was praying, I said, Lord, I want some batteries and I don't want just rubbish batteries. I want Duracell ones. 'cause they were the best ones at the time. I remember saying the brand, this is what I want. It sounds really odd, I get it. Um, and I walked out of the house and on that wall was a packet of four Duracell batteries, but two had been removed.
And I, I only needed two. I'd only prayed for two, but there was a pack of four with two removed on the wall. And I'm like, thank you, Jesus. I put those batteries in my Walkman. They were the longest lasting batteries I'd ever. I think they, that Walkman actually got stolen eventually. I think the proper batteries are probably still in there.
Yeah,
[00:52:40] Dan Orange: yeah. Still were. He's like, where's this guy gonna run out? Um.
[00:52:44] Matt Edmundson: I am aware of time.
[00:52:46] Dan Orange: One thing I just wanted to say is sometimes, sometimes you look, I I've done it before, you can look at people that are self-employed and well, that's easier for you to trust God because you've, you've got to,
[00:52:59] Matt Edmundson: mm-hmm.
[00:52:59] Dan Orange: The money's not coming from anywhere.
But when I, when I worked for bt, I had just listened to different talks and judge, um, someone said. If you just believe that that money, you know, for that big multinational company, if that's God's money to you as well, it makes a big difference. Oh it
[00:53:21] Matt Edmundson: does. Totally.
[00:53:22] Dan Orange: Yeah. Not, don't just, just 'cause it's coming in a salary every month doesn't make it any less of a provision.
[00:53:28] Matt Edmundson: No, and I think the challenge actually is. You cannot see as a Christian, your employer, as your provider.
[00:53:36] Dan Orange: Yeah,
[00:53:36] Matt Edmundson: I did when I had a job and God rebuked me over the whole thing. 'cause God is your provider, not your employer. 'cause as soon as your employer becomes your provider, you're limited to what they're gonna give you, what salary raise and all that sort of stuff.
But when God's, your provider man, the gloves are off perfect
[00:53:52] Dan Orange: wage.
[00:53:52] Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um. Uh, just looking through the comments. Jan aging, it hit the nail on the head. Uh, ro friends in church. Uh, don't have too much money. They give 10% of their time working in the community. That's an interesting point.
Now, just a point Yeah. As to get back onto this, we will be talking about generosity in two weeks time. Next week, Mike Harris is gonna be with us talking about the theology of work. After that, we're gonna be talking about generosity. What is this grace of giving. Um, but yeah, we are gonna go to live lounge.
I'll be in there. Um, a will be in there. Uh, come and say hi. How's it come join us. Um, baby, you're gonna put the link in the comments again. Uh, so we'll put the comment, uh, the link in the comments, do come join us. It's just like a zoom call. It's really, really straightforward. I'd love to hear your thoughts on tonight.
## [00:54:42] Final Takeaways & What’s Next: Idols, Live Lounge, and Upcoming Topics
[00:54:42] Matt Edmundson: Um, but yeah, in closing aid, anything else from you buddy?
[00:54:47] Ade Birkby: We've talked a lot about money, but really it's, it's stuff, you know, it's, um, any, it's assets in general, things that, things that we idolize, you know, really. So, you know, we, we've talked about money being the root of all evil, but maybe, you know, you're okay with money, but you know what?
I really like collecting fast, expensive cars, and that's what I live for, you know, at that point. That's where okay. Money per se isn't the focus here. It's that expensive car or hobby or whatever, and it, it's all about idolizing at the end of the day. Mm. To our actions say that we idolize money or the opposite, that money works for us.
[00:55:27] Matt Edmundson: Very good. That's a powerful thought. Dan, anything else from you?
[00:55:31] Dan Orange: I think, no. I think, um, I just summed it up. Yeah. Summed
[00:55:34] Matt Edmundson: up beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Be a steward, not an owner. Mm-hmm. I, I think that's the, yeah, the great thing.
[00:55:41] Dan Orange: Yeah.
[00:55:42] Matt Edmundson: So we will, uh, see you in Live Lounge, but from AID and from Dan and from myself, uh, if we don't see you in there, have a fantastic week.
Wherever you're in the world. If you're listening to this on Catchup or on the podcast, why not come join us in the livestream on Sundays. We live stream at seven o'clock in the uk. 7:00 PM UK time. Which at current I think is 2:00 PM Eastern Seaboard time. Uh, everyone knows Don't look at me. Yeah. Okay. Uh, I think that's what it is.
Uh, but we live stream on YouTube every week. Um, so do come and join us in that. Very soon we are gonna be in a new studio. When we get in the new studio, we're gonna expand out. Live lounge to start before the service. And so you'll be able to join Live Lounge and watch the service with other people and connect with other Christians from around the world in Live Lounge.
We're excited by this. Yes. We just need to get the tech workers. Yes. Dunno how it's gonna work, but we know it can work. Uh, 'cause you know, God's bigger than the tech, so, uh, anyway. That's coming up very, very soon. Do come join us next week, but like I say, come join us in Liveline that live lounge now. Be genuinely great to see you in there, but from the team here, thank you so much for joining us.
Have a phenomenal week wherever you are in the world. We'll see you next time. Bye for now.