Why Jesus Tells Worried People to Go Bird Watching
Have you ever noticed how much energy worry quietly takes? The bills, the diagnosis, the kids, the job that might not be there next month. It hums away in the background of ordinary life, and most of us have just learned to live with the noise.
So it's a strange thing to hear Jesus tell worried people to go and watch birds. This week at Crowd, Sharon opened with a photo of a pantomime horse she'd made out of scrap material as a kid. She's always been a maker and a grower, someone with more hobbies than hours in the day. But there are two hobbies Jesus recommends that never made her list. Bird watching, and flowers. Not as pastimes exactly, but as a way of seeing. And the question is, why?
The Worry We've Learned to Live With
This teaching comes from the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus lays out what life looks like when we live rightly with God and one another. It's almost a manifesto for life. If you were in charge of your workplace or your whole country, what kind of culture would you build? How would you want people to treat each other? This is Jesus answering that.
Tucked inside it are four short sections about money and possessions, and this is the fourth. Here's where it lands:
That is why I tell you not to worry about everyday life, whether you have enough food and drink, or enough clothes to wear. Isn't life more than food, and your body more than clothing? Look at the birds. They don't plant or harvest or store food in barns, for your heavenly Father feeds them. And aren't you far more valuable to Him than they are? (Matthew 6:25–26, NLT)
The word translated worry here is the Greek merimnao. It shows up nineteen times in the New Testament, and it can be a healthy concern for the right things or an unhealthy fixation on the wrong ones. Scripture tells us not to be consumed by food and clothes, and in the same breath (1 Corinthians 12:25) tells us to be deeply concerned for one another. The issue was never caring. It's where the caring points.
Look at the Birds, Look at the Flowers
So why does Jesus point us at birds and wildflowers? Because when we actually look, we start to see something of God's character.
We see a God who is generous and cares for what He's made. Sharon put it simply from her own garden. If she did nothing, within a few years it would become a small woodland. She's forever pulling up sycamore and hazel saplings to stop them taking over. There's such an abundance of seed that things grow everywhere, often where she never planted them, and all of it becomes food and shelter for the birds.
Then there are the flowers. God could have made them purely functional. Instead He put beauty and detail and care into something that's here today and gone tomorrow. When her kids were small, Sharon used to stop them on walks to look at the pretty flowers. Now they say it back to her, probably to humour her. But the point holds. The God who lavishes that much attention on a wildflower is not a God who's lost interest in you.
This is the antidote to worry. Not "try harder to feel calm", but a shift in where we're looking. From the things we're anxious about, to the One who is actually the source of what we need.
Because sometimes our circumstances make us quietly wonder whether God cares at all. Or whether, if He does, He's powerful enough to do anything about it. Jesus offers concrete evidence in the opposite direction. Whatever the reason for our circumstances, it's not that God doesn't care.
Seeking First a Kingdom That Actually Provides
Jesus doesn't stop at "don't worry". He gives us somewhere else to put our attention.
Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and He will give you everything you need. (Matthew 6:33, NLT)
A kingdom is simply a place where a king rules. We have a king in the UK, but it's not a great picture of this, because here the king reigns without really ruling. In God's kingdom He does both. Seeking it means trusting His way in every area of life, not picking the bits we like. And living righteously just means living right with God and right with people.
The catch is that the world is shouting something very different, and it's worth naming the contrast Sharon drew out:
The world says, buy more so you'll feel secure. God says that feeling won't last, because things get lost. Look to your Father instead.
The world says, be someone, get more followers, climb higher. God says you're already someone. You don't need the ladder to prove your worth, but you can use where you are to serve others.
The world says, look after number one, hold on to what you have. (Anyone remember the great toilet roll panic of 2020?) God says be generous, because what you have isn't only for you.
What This Looks Like on a Tuesday
This isn't theory. Sharon gave two examples from opposite ends of the spectrum.
Her friend Sue has had years where money was painfully tight, watching every penny and still coming up short. At a self-service checkout one day, surrounded by yellow-sticker reductions, she turned to a stranger and said, "This is such a blessing, God's really provided, I've got so much more for my money." The woman replied that she was a Christian too, and that she was going to pay for Sue's shopping. Two strangers hugging by the tills. Another time, facing the cost of a family funeral on the Isle of Wight, a man who'd once lodged with them briefly, who knew nothing of their situation, sent £100. He'd simply felt prompted to. As Sue says, it's funny how many coincidences happen when you pray.
At the other end sits Mark Mitchell, who runs a thriving car business. Plenty of companies in his world chase the bottom line, work people into the ground, and watch staff churn out the door. Mark runs his differently. The business closes on Sundays, one of the busiest days for car viewings, so his people can rest at the same time as their families. A few years ago they walked away from a major contract because it would have forced Sunday trading. From a purely financial view, that makes no sense. For Mark it was about putting God first and trusting Him to provide. He's swapped the word "employees" for "colleagues", because he sees people as made in God's image and treats them that way. Last year, out of 106 staff, two part-timers left, against an industry average closer to 30 to 40 per cent. There's a verse he leans on from 1 Samuel: those who honour me, I will honour.
Conversation Street
What keeps you trusting God when life is hard?
The honest answer from the hosts was stories. Dan talked about leaving a secure apprenticeship at Ford at twenty to go to university, with people lining up to tell him he was either brave or mad. He had a peace about it, partly because he'd watched his parents live that way first. Ade described knowing for years that Ireland wasn't home, praying about it, and then a fully funded scholarship opening the door to North Wales, where the rest of his life took shape. Sharon shared the season when she gave up work to be a full-time mum, the lodgers moved out, and Matt's company was being taken over, so nearly all their income looked set to vanish at once. In the middle of it there was, oddly, a sense of excitement. Then an anonymous gift arrived out of the blue and freed Matt to start his own company. None of them pretended it was easy. As Sharon put it, sometimes following Jesus actually makes life harder, even while it makes you more at peace inside.
Why stay with God when He could heal but hasn't?
Ade carries this one personally. His wife Sonya has severe ME, and he's watched her waste away over years while the healing he's begged for hasn't come. He's stopped pretending he has an answer to why. What he offered instead was James 1:2, consider it pure joy whenever you face trials of many kinds, alongside complete honesty that he doesn't enjoy trials one bit. He keeps going for two reasons. Faith makes him a better, more peaceful person to be around right now, whatever turns out to be true. And he's convinced there's something far better and eternal on the other side of all this, next to which the present pain is a blink. Then the detail that stops you. In the hardest season of his life, Ade took up bird watching. There's an accessible RSPB reserve near home, and he found something genuinely calming about sitting in nature watching birds he can't even name. Jesus' top recommendation, taken up without him planning it.
One Day at a Time
There's no pretending here that faith makes life smooth. Jesus is completely straight with us.
So don't worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Today's trouble is enough for today. (Matthew 6:34, NLT)
He promises trouble, and then He gives us a way to carry it. Focus on today. Sharon found this during her cancer treatment last year. Instead of being swallowed by everything that might lie ahead, it became about what was in front of her that day. What had the doctor actually said? What was she struggling with right now? She'd talk to God about that, be honest about how she felt, and then choose to trust Him with what came next. And it freed her to actually enjoy the day she was in, to notice what she had to be thankful for, without tomorrow's maybes casting a shadow over it.
Something to Try This Week
Go on an awe walk. Head out with the specific intention of looking for things that make you stop. Birds, flowers, sky. There's real research showing it does our mental and physical health good, and Jesus got there first.
Name today's worry, then hand over today. Not the whole of next year. Just what's actually in front of you. Tell God how you feel about it honestly, and leave tomorrow with Him.
Do one generous thing. Pay for someone's coffee, give something away, meet a need you can see. Generosity is how God's provision tends to flow through people.
Ask a better question. Not "how do I get more so I'll feel secure?" but "who does God say I am?" Living out of that takes the pressure off needing to prove anything.
Notice where your eyes go. When the worry hum starts up, look up. The birds aren't panicking, and they're far less valuable to your Father than you are.
So here's the question for the week. If you really believed God was this generous, and this committed to you, what would actually change about the way you live? It would be good to hear how you put it into practice. That's the kind of thing Conversation Street is for, and you're always welcome to join us.
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# Crowd Church — 14 June 2026
Series: Jesus the Revolutionary
Speaker: Sharon Edmundson
Hosts: Dan Orange, Ade Birkby
Passage: Matthew 6:25–34
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[00:05] Dan: Hello, that was a shorter intro than I was expecting. Welcome tonight to Crowd Church. It's great to be with you again today. Um, my name's Dan, and today I'm joined by wonderful Sharon. Hello, who's talking, and she's here with me in the, in the studio, and the wonderful Ade, and he's in his personal studio in North Wales.
[00:34] Ade: Hello, good evening folks.
[00:36] Dan: How are you doing?
[00:38] Ade: I'm doing okay, how are you?
[00:41] Dan: Yes, yeah, good. Enjoying the fact that we've got a bit of nice weather. We always talk about the weather, don't we? But it's actually sunny, which is nice.
[00:47] Sharon: Ade, with your guitars in the background, I was just wondering whether you're going to serenade us at any point this evening.
[00:53] Ade: Be honest, I've not actually had the time to touch them lately, and I'm reckoning they are massively out of tune.
[01:01] Dan: Okay, we'll have to wait for that one. Yes, that's for another, another time, another day. Yeah. Um, so we had, uh, Mike talking last week, and Sharon, do you want to give us a intro, or should we just—
[01:17] Sharon: I think just get into it, I think.
[01:19] Dan: Yeah, yeah. Um, this series has just been— it's been great to just get a little more insights into Jesus's, his, his character and, and all the things that— like, it's Jesus the Revolutionary— all the things that are countercultural, things that are different to what was happening at the time. So, um, I think without further ado, you're ready.
[01:45] Sharon: Yeah, I think I am. I'll just, uh, let me go. Yeah, okay. So I want to start with a photo today, and hopefully it will come up on the screen. If my lovely assistant can help out. Ah, okay, that's a slight issue then, because that was a little bit crucial to— okay, okay, something random happening here. He said the bit that's not working is the— okay, okay, here's my photo. Okay, so this is— well, you might be wondering what is this vision of beauty in front of me? Well, this handsome creature is a pantomime horse that I made out of scrap material when I was a kid. So, I was always making things, sewing, drawing, painting, knitting. At other times, I'd spend whole weekends reading. I grew trees from seeds in pots. I had about 20 until my parents insisted that I plant them out in a field, or on the edge of a field. I played piano and a few other instruments. I enjoyed sports, walking, learning languages. Honestly, I had so many hobbies. Anyone else like me with lots of interests, or are you more focused? Do, as I'm talking, do chuck your comments into the comment section, like, you know, reply to stuff that I'm saying or add your questions. That would be great. But anyway, out of all these hobbies, there are actually a couple of hobbies that Jesus tells us to get into that didn't make it onto my list. Any guesses? They are bird watching and flowers. So, well, maybe he wasn't talking about them as hobbies as such, but he does tell us to look at these things. And the question is, why? In just a moment, we'll read to find out the answer. But first, a bit of context, because today's passage begins with Jesus saying, "That is why I tell you," or some translations will say, 'therefore.' And I've been told that if you see the word 'therefore,' you need to see what it's there for. Context matters, right? So the teaching of Jesus we're about to look at today comes from what's called the Sermon on the Mount. It's found in chapters 5 to 7 of the Book of Matthew, with a shorter version in Luke. And in these chapters, Jesus paints a picture of what life looks like when we live rightly with God and one another.— it's almost like a manifesto for life. So if you were in charge of your country, or even just your workplace, what kind of culture would you create? How would you want people to treat each other? Well, in these chapters, Jesus lays out his vision. Within that, there are 4 short sections about money and possessions, and today we're going to look at the 4th of these. The first asks, if the treasure, um, is the treasure we're storing up, is it purely physical, or is it something more lasting? It gets at that pull we all feel either to keep buying more stuff or to worry because we don't have enough. That was true in Jesus' time, and it's perhaps even more true now with all the advertising around us. I mean, some things we own are essential, aren't they? Some things make life easier or more enjoyable. Some even give us a sense of identity or security. But Jesus reminds us that these things don't last. They can be lost through damage or theft or just life-changing unexpectedly. Now, he also mentions moths, which, as someone with a liking for natural fibers, I can relate to this only too well. The second is a riddle about two types of eye, a healthy eye and an unhealthy eye, and it's looking at stinginess versus generosity. Don't have time to go into that now. A third is about um, how money can end up controlling us, whether that's because we don't have enough or we have too much. So let's read the fourth teaching on money within Jesus' Manifesto and see why Jesus is telling us to take up bird watching and the study of flowers. How can these things help us? How are they relevant to the vision of life that Jesus has in mind? So Matthew 6:25 onwards say That is why I tell you not to worry about everyday life, whether you have enough food and drink or enough clothes to wear. Isn't life more than food and your body more than clothing? Look at the birds. They don't plant or harvest or store food in barns, for your Heavenly Father feeds them. And aren't you far more valuable to him than they? Can all your worries add a single moment to your life? And why do you worry about clothing? Look at the lilies of the field and how they grow. They don't work or make their clothing, yet Solomon in all his glory was not dressed as beautifully as they are. And if God cares so wonderfully for wildflowers that are here today and thrown into the fire tomorrow, he will certainly care for you. Why do you have so little faith? So Jesus tells us to look at the birds and the flowers. Why? Because when we do, we start to see something of God's character. It's part of an antidote to worry. And what do we see? We see a God who is generous and cares for what he's made. He's created a world with enough provision for birds, animals, and also for all of us. Now, if I didn't do anything in my garden, within a few years it would probably be a small woodland. As it is, I'm constantly pulling up, um, sycamore and hazel saplings to stop them taking over. Things grow everywhere, often where I didn't plant them, because there's such an abundance of seeds, and all of that becomes food and shelter for birds and other creatures. So that's the birds. What about the flowers? Now, I've always loved flowers, and when my kids were little, I'd often stop them as we were walking along to say, "Stop and 'Look at the pretty flowers.' And now they say it back to me, probably more to humor me, if I'm honest. But flowers really are beautiful. Again, they speak of a God who doesn't skimp. He could have just made them functional, but instead he put such beauty and detail and a lot of care into their creation. So how does this help us exactly? Jesus is inviting us to look at the evidence around us in nature for God's generosity and love towards us, to help us with our daily lives, to help shift our thinking and focus from the things that we worry about to something far better, to shift our thinking from where we think we can get our needs met to the one who is the ultimate source of fulfilling our needs. Sometimes our emotions or our circumstances would lead us to think that God doesn't care Have you ever felt like that, um, that God isn't interested? I know I have. And, um, and sometimes we can have circumstances in life that can make us question if God really loves us, or if he does love us, is he actually powerful enough to do anything about it? Jesus encourages us that when we look at the birds and the flowers, we can see concrete evidence that he does care and that he's powerful. He's the Creator who provides generously for his creatures. Whatever the reason for our circumstances, it's not that God doesn't care. The passage we read before mentions the word worry, and the Greek word translated as worry is the verb merimnao. Not sure my pronunciation, but anyway, this word appears 19 times in the New Testament, and it's sometimes translated as worry, sometimes as be anxious, and sometimes as be concerned., and it's used in both a positive and a negative way. It can be an unhealthy concern or focus on the wrong things, or it can be a healthy and godly concern on the right things. So the scripture we've just read says not to be concerned about food and clothes. On the other hand, 1 Corinthians 12:26 says we should be concerned about each other. The next part of our reading today is this: So don't worry, merimnao, about these things, saying, what will we eat, what will we drink, and what will we wear? These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers, but your heavenly Father already knows all your needs. Jesus is saying that those who don't know God can be overly focused on material concerns. And to be honest, I think those of us who do know God can also be like that. But these things consume their thoughts because they don't look to God. They have to rely entirely on their own efforts for their sense of security, sense of identity. And that can lead to living in a state of anxious striving, endlessly chasing material security. But to those who have accepted his invitation to be part of his family, he's a loving father who wants to give good things to his children. So where should our focus be? Jesus goes on to say, seek the kingdom of God above all else and live righteous— righteously, and he will give you everything you need. So what is God's kingdom and how do we seek it? And what does it mean to live righteously? A kingdom is simply a place where a king rules. Now, we do have a king in the UK, but the way our monarchy works isn't really a great picture of God's kingdom, because here the king reigns but he doesn't really rule, whereas in God's kingdom he both reigns and rules. He decides what's right and wrong based on his good character. So if we want to be part of his kingdom, it means submitting to him, which may not be a popular concept right now. It's not about picking and choosing the bits we like, but trusting his way in every area of life. It means shifting our focus from trying to meet all our own needs and instead trusting him as the one who provides, because the messages we hear in the world are very different. The world says, 'Buy more so you'll feel more secure.' Jesus says, 'That feeling of security won't last. Things can be taken away. Look to your Father instead.' The world says, 'Be someone, get more followers, climb higher.' God says, 'You're already someone. You already have value. You don't need to climb the ladder to prove that, but you can use your position to serve others.' The world says, 'Look after number one, hold on to what you have.' But we've all seen where that leads, haven't we? Anyone remember, uh, the toilet roll situation during COVID uh, where there wasn't any? Um, God says, 'Be generous. What you have isn't just for you, it's for others too.' His promise is that when we live this way, when we put him first in all areas of our life, he gives us what we really need. Having needs isn't the issue, it's how we try to meet them and where our attention is. And living righteously simply means living right with God and right with people. So what does this look like in real life? Seeking God's kingdom, living right with him and with others, and trusting him with what we need. There are so many examples that I could give, but I've got a, um, a couple from one end of the spectrum And then one from the other end of the spectrum. So, my friend Sue and her family have had years where money has been really tight. She's had to watch every penny, and even then sometimes there just hasn't been enough. Again and again they found themselves praying to God to provide, and she tells about one time when she was food shopping, picking items with the yellow stickers, you know, the like reduced ones, And she got to the self-service checkout and she just happened to turn to the woman next to her, a complete stranger, and said, 'This is such a blessing.' And the woman asked why, and Sue said, 'God's really provided. I've got so much more for my money with these yellow stickers.' That's kind of like seeing God's provision in everything, isn't it? Well, the woman replied, 'Well, this is going to be an extra blessing. I'm going to pay for your shopping.' She said, "I'm a Christian too," and right there in the shop, they gave each other a big hug, complete strangers. Brilliant. So another time when Sue's mother-in-law died, they needed to travel to the Isle of Wight where she'd been living and stay a couple of nights in a hotel and contribute to the funeral. So it was such a big financial strain. So friends helped, of course, but then out of the blue, a man who had once lodged with them briefly and knew nothing about their situation sent them £100. He said that he'd simply felt God prompt him to do it. It's funny how many coincidences happen when we pray, isn't it? Now, I'm not saying that Christians are the only ones who are generous. I know many, um, people who don't have any faith or a different faith who are really generous. But I believe that when we are generous, whoever we are, that we're reflecting something of God's own heart. At the other end of the spectrum, um, we've got a friend, uh, who's called Mark Mitchell, and he runs the Mitchell Group, which is a really successful car business. So financially, he's doing really well. Now, a lot of companies expect long hours, put profits first, and don't really look after their staff. Their focus is on the bottom line, and it often leads to stress, high staff turnover, and sometimes questionable decisions which are ethically a bit dodgy. But Mark's approach is different. He's trying to run his business in line with God's values bringing God's kingdom here on earth, just like the Lord's Prayer says. He'd be the first one to say he doesn't get it right all the time, but his aim is clear. For example, the business closes on Sundays, one of the busiest days for car viewings, because he believes in keeping a day of rest, like keeping the Sabbath holy, as the Bible would say. It means his staff can be off at the same time as their families. And a few years ago, they even shut down a major part of their business because of contract change would have required Sunday trading. So, from a purely, purely financial point of view, that really doesn't make sense. But for Mark, it wasn't just about money. It was about putting God first and trusting him to provide. And there's a verse he really likes in 1 Samuel that says, "Those who honor me, I will honor." And you can also see something of that in the way that he runs the business. Last year, out of 106 staff, only 2 part-time employees left. Left when the industry average is closer to 30 to 40%. So why, why do they stay? It's because people aren't just employees to him. He's changed their name actually from employees to colleagues because the whole mindset changes the way he thinks about people, and he sees them as people made in God's image, and he treats them that way. And as a company, they support over 50 charities, not just for appearance but out of a genuine care for other people. So how would life look different if you really believe that God loves you and wants you to be generous, wants to be generous towards you? I like to ask myself this question: how would life look if you made living right with God and other people your main focus, partnering with God in all areas of your life, doing things his way? Maybe you already do that. It'd be great to hear how you put this into practice in your life as like an encouragement to the rest of us. But just all this, um, sounds a bit like I'm saying, do this and life will be easy. Listen to how Jesus finishes this little section of teaching. He says, therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Jesus is really real with us. Life won't be trouble-free. In fact, he's promising that we will have trouble. Not the particular promise that we like to take hold of, but he does give us a way to handle it, and that is focus on today. Give God what's going on today. And that's something I found really helpful last year during my cancer journey. Instead of getting overwhelmed by everything ahead, it became about what's in front of me today. What has the doctor said to me, to me today that I'm struggling with? I talk to God about that, be honest how I'm feeling, pray it through, and then choose to trust him with what comes next. And you know what, it really freed me up just to actually be able to enjoy the day that I was in. Thinking, okay, what good things do I actually have today? What can I be thankful for today? Without letting what could maybe possibly happen tomorrow overshadow it. So really, this is the invitation to shift our focus away from trying to carry everything ourselves and towards living closely with our generous, loving Father. As we put him first and walk in his ways, we can trust him to provide not just for our physical needs, but for the deeper things too— for peace, security, purpose, and a sense of being held. Okay, I've finished, so I'm going to hand back to Dan, although I do have another bit of paper with lots of bits I couldn't fit on on that.
[19:26] Dan: Oh, okay. That's— I love that, Sharon. Brilliant talk. I think, um, you might have heard listen to the same podcast with Mark Mitchell.
[19:38] Sharon: Yeah, if you want to hear more about Mark, he's on, um, the Inspired podcast, a fairly recent one. So he talks a lot more, he goes into a lot more detail about other different ways he brings— yeah, God into his business.
[19:51] Dan: Yeah, it's brilliant. Um, having no HR department was like countercultural, wasn't it? Um, ah, that— where, where to start? And there's lots of comments, and I've written some comments, um, I think first, Ade, what— oh, someone got a text. Ade, what things first sort of jumped out to you?
[20:18] Ade: I think the basics, you know, just ask, put it in God's hands, you know, like in Matthew 7 where it says, ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, and knock and the door will be opened unto you. Yeah, I think it's important to remember that in fact Matthew 7:7 gives you like 3 levels of escalation. Some things we'll ask for and there'll be an answer pretty much right away. Other things we're going to have to seek and it's going to take time and patience and we'll get there. And then some things again, I'm just going to take really against the odds, kind of banging on that door. Let's, you know, let's keep persevering here. But ultimately those who ask will be answered, those who seek will find, and those who knock, the door will be opened unto them. And, uh, it's just having that faith and perseverance at our end because we don't always get the answer right away, but they are coming at some point.
[21:15] Dan: Yeah, I love how, um, obviously Jesus brought it out in, in this sermon, but then you brought out as well that the reflecting on creation. Um, and there's been some comments on there. Alicia's said how we sometimes can forget the first artist, Jesus being that first art— or God being that first artist— that if you do just look at— it sounds funny, doesn't it? Oh, you know, smell the flowers, look at the flowers. But they didn't have to have that detail. It doesn't have to be that beauty, but but there is. And I, I do love that. It does make me think, oh man, God, yeah, if you do care about these things that are literally just for, for days— some insects and creatures are like hours, aren't they? How much more?
[22:06] Sharon: I was talking to a friend yesterday about this subject of beauty. Well, it came up actually, I didn't mention this particularly, and she said how even as a child she looked at beauty and it made her think, oh, there must be a God. And that made her want to seek God. Yeah, I found that really in—
[22:25] Dan: yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, I was talking to a friend this week about, um, if you watch sort of nature programs, they often talk about that, that's awesome, that's all, and yet miss the awesome, awesome Creator. And I just think, oh, you're using that word without knowing, you know, sort of making it so small. And we can, we can make it small, can't we, and realize that he's, he's provided that. And, and I love how it just leads on to, well, if he's doing that— and it's not a, um, it's not an— I've sometimes read the verse that says, why do you have so little faith, at the end of it, as a bit of an admonishment. Yeah, why do you have so little faith?
[23:09] Sharon: Yeah, yeah.
[23:09] Dan: But when you were saying it then, it just felt a bit more like 'Look at all those things. Why, why do you have so little faith if you can see that?' Reflecting back on it. Yeah, yeah, different emphasis. Yeah, yeah.
[23:25] Sharon: Just one— I, I'm aware we need to bring Ade, but, um, just before that, you mentioned the word awe. So Matt reminded me before that a few weeks ago, Will mentioned something called awe walks, where you go out walking with the specific intention of looking for things that make you go, yeah, yeah, I can't remember how he worded it. And actually there's a study done that shows the benefits of doing that, like for our mental and physical health.
[23:56] Dan: Yeah, anyway, yeah, um, before I bring in some of these, um, comments, Ade, is there anything that you want to sort of share regarding that, regarding sort of the awe and the things we've been talking about, this creation?
[24:11] Ade: Yeah, so as you know, I'm a scientist. So when I look at this, I guess through a data-driven mindset, when I think about what's the greatest thing that us humans have invented or done, and maybe you'll say, oh, really snazzy robots or AI or whatever. And you look at that in all of its ever so modest glory in comparison to the complexity of a human being. And you just kind of think, well, there's, you know, the relationship between the creator and the created. Yeah. You know, the creator is much more advanced and complex and all the rest of it. So you look at the greatest thing we've done in comparison to us and think, well, you know, we're nowhere near to being able to create anything like us. So if I'm going to kind of kick that upstairs and think, wow, just how much more amazing, you know, is God and how much more complex and powerful and awesome. And bearing in mind the coolest thing we've done is like, you know, after thousands of years of research and all the rest of it, you know, God made us first time. Yeah, well, we'll have you too, you know, pop Adam, bang Eve. And you know, it's like there was no research and development and preparation. It was just he spoke and it was done.
[25:29] Dan: Yeah, yeah. And it reflected— I love that sometimes, that his image— we're a fraction of that image, aren't they? When we look at creation, it's not just a beautiful thing, it's a reflection of his, his beauty as well. Yeah, yeah. Um, let's, let's get into some of these comments. Um, so yeah, we're saying before that Alicia said She loves some of these beautiful anecdotes that you brought across and how the early church would have been in that same situation. So you talked about Sue and people just— that lady just saying, 'Oh, I want to bless you.' Yeah. And I think there must have been a lot of that then. When we do— I think sometimes perhaps in our modern life we have to be a bit more intentional than— I know where this is true— than, than they did back then, because they lived in such close community. I feel that you could— needs were a bit more obvious, whereas our needs are still like that. Yeah, yeah, we sort of hide our needs away, don't we? We're very isolated, and sometimes it has to be a bit more intentional. It has to be, let me pay for your shopping, rather than just you You both walk in to get your groceries together, you know? Yeah.
[26:53] Sharon: And as I was thinking about these things, it's like, because he says if you focus on doing things his way, that you get your needs met. And as I've been thinking about these over the weeks, I think it works on kind of two sort of levels. One of them is if everybody is being generous and sharing what they've got, of course, everyone's going to have their needs met, aren't they? It's only by, because we are selfish or we hoard or, that there's enough for everybody. The only reason that— well, the main reason that not everyone has enough is because of the inequalities caused by people. So there's that one sense, if we just follow his teaching, we get our needs met. But also, it's like we don't live in a world where that happens all the time, and God is able to provide those miracles in those situations as well. Um, not that again, not that he always does. Sometimes we're, you know, we'd like a miracle and we don't get one. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I just think it works on two levels.
[27:52] Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, Alicia has also said, I think that partnering with God, although I do it quite imperfectly, helps me to A, feel less lonely in my struggles, and B, refocus on what's important, and C, give me— give more generously and cheerfully.
[28:12] Sharon: Yeah.
[28:13] Dan: Yeah, I am. Yeah, if our focus is, is on these things, it does— it changes. If our inward focus is on God and his creation, he's going to provide, then it helps our outward actions as well, doesn't it?
[28:30] Sharon: Yeah, it does.
[28:32] Dan: Yeah.
[28:33] Sharon: One of the things that, um, Mike mentioned last week as well was this whole thing about that Jewish literature was meant to be meditated on. So obviously we can focus on creation and look at that, but also, um, the scriptures themselves are meant to be meditated on. And in each of Jesus' teachings, he'll pick up on one specific point, but then if you put them all together, you get a, um— but like, if you just focus on one point, it can be a bit like 'But hang on a minute, what about this situation? And what about that?' But when you put them all together, you get this very rounded view, and then you kind of have to mull them over, work it out. It's like, 'Okay, how does that work?' But it's very much about this continual thinking and chewing it over, discussing with people to get the full depth of the truth.
[29:28] Dan: I, um, I was talking to someone yesterday who's actually— he's, he's been on Crowd and he's done a talk about mental health, a guy called Phil Watson that we both know. And we were talking about, um, hobbies, or what we'd call now sometimes called mindfulness, you know. Yeah. And you can sort of link the two together. And I just wondered how people's hobbies or mindfulness, is it This just came to me. Is it something that you do to distract yourself from life, or is it something that you do to help your mind then focus on other things, like looking at wildflowers, looking at, um, sort of wildlife? I suppose you can do both things. You could just get so in depth with it that you— it all it is is a distraction. But you can look at it as well, like Jesus says in those, in the, um, those words, that it's, it's, it's mindful in terms of something to focus your time on, but it's also mindful in that it directs your focus to Jesus. Yeah, I just think, is, are the hobbies and the tasks that we do, are they How, how are they for you? Are they helping you? Are they mindful? Are they directing you to God, or are they distracting? Yeah, perhaps that's— I always say these things, and it's not me, you know, saying things that you— it's, it's like I need to look at my tasks as well.
[31:02] Sharon: Yeah.
[31:03] Dan: Do they, do they help me to, to be mindful and focus on—
[31:07] Sharon: it's a good point—
[31:08] Dan: I'll focus on God.
[31:12] Sharon: I've got a question for you guys. Um, Ade could start maybe. Um, just wondering, so I've given a few examples from friends— from, yeah, from friends— about how they've put God first, um, like partnered with him and bringing God's kingdom on earth, even when, like for Mark, it could potentially have been quite costly for him. Have you got any examples of where you've done that? Or where God's provided for you. Um, yeah.
[31:45] Ade: Oh, put me on the spot, why don't you?
[31:48] Sharon: You've had a whole talk to think about this.
[31:54] Ade: I, um, so I work for a multinational, and, uh, in fact, I've worked for multinationals for a long time, and, uh, typically they're very open to what people think, but you've got to be very careful about what you say. And as an example, where I work for now, every year we pick what charity shall we, you know, give all this money we've been saving up for to. In fact, the last multinational was the same, and it can be any charity but not a religious one. Of course, I've always, you know, as an ambassador from Compassion UK, I've always brought that to the table anyway and been knocked back, no, we can't do that, it's, you know, it's not religious. But I've never shied away from speaking what I'm thinking, biblically so, in context. So I've never tried to go out of the way to insert my faith into a conversation, but I've never shied away from it. It certainly has, if anything, had people open up to me that I wouldn't have expected because I've, you know, shown this side of in some ways vulnerability, and not just on the whole corporate, you know, tick box, let's just, you know, do the same dance everyone else does because that's what we do in the corporation. That's what I've got being put on the spot.
[33:21] Sharon: Okay, well, I'll move over to Dan and then give you a bit more chance to think.
[33:26] Dan: Yeah, I was thinking about that one. When I was, um, 16, I went straight from school and went to work for, again, multinational Ford Motor Company. Quite a, quite a big company. Um, and it was a, it was a great job, an apprenticeship. And it's, um, the, like, the guy I started work with on that day, still one of my best mates, he's still there. Um, 4 years into it, I really felt I should leave and go to uni. And, um, a few people came up to me and just said— so there was two views. There was one, you're nuts, you know, leaving this is a secure job, and that's brave, you know, going. And for me, it was just— I, I knew that's what I should do. I had a peace about it. And I was just thinking when, when Ade was talking I knew it was God, but I'd seen that modeled by my, my parents. They, they lived in that way. And I'm just thinking, for those of you, um, listening, have you seen that, that modeled? Is it— is this something very, very new to you to put your faith in? So for me, I could see it in my family, and that really helped me just to have that rest and that peace. Um, but I understand there's potentially you, you, this is completely, this is a wacky thought that you can have that, that rest. Um, and it's been, it, it's been great. It's been hard. Like, I look back and think, I was, I was again talking to Phil yesterday thinking, I could have, I could be almost retired by now, have this amazing pension. You know, it was a final salary pension, like a rare thing. Well, they don't exist anymore. Wouldn't have had the, you know, finished at 9 o'clock and finished at 5 o'clock and wouldn't get any calls from customers. Yeah. So it's definitely, you know, I do look back, but I can, I can put trust in that I've had a great time. The people I've met in what I do now and the things I get to do is brilliant. But I did have to have that, that peace to know this was what I should do.
[35:41] Sharon: Yeah. Any regrets?
[35:44] Ade: Sometimes.
[35:44] Dan: Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes there are, you know. The beginning of this year was the hardest time I've had at business, you know. It was, it was like, God, this is hard. I need you to provide. And, um, yeah, he, he has provided and he is providing. Um, but it's been hard.
[36:02] Sharon: Yeah. Should we see if Ade's got any more thoughts? Now he's had time to think. Anything else, Ade? Oh yeah.
[36:08] Ade: I'm going to copy Dan actually. Similar move. After I graduated from uni with degrees in engineering and science, I went to work in research in a university in Ireland and absolutely loved what I did. It was really interesting. It was developing. It was going places. But in my heart, I just, I always knew that Ireland wasn't my home. Now, I moved there when I was 5, all of my family moved back, and I kind of figured I'd stick around. And whenever I came to the UK, I just had this peace that I never had when I was in Ireland. And so it was something for a long time I, you know, I prayed about and kept an eye for opportunities, but randomly At the same time, I became fascinated in how the human body worked. Nothing to do with the engineering or the science I was involved in. I started, um, basically I got really into climbing. I started training to compete in climbing and then read textbooks on physiology and ended up sitting exams to become a strength coach and trainer and all this kind of stuff. But in the midst of it, and I could feel, you know, all these different directions, I could feel the research trying to pulling me in more and get the university to fund my my further master's and PhD and all that kind of stuff. But there was something in me that just said no, even though this is kind of like, kind of, you know, your ideal dream thing. And I stuck to my guns, and before I knew it, an opportunity opened to actually move to North Wales. I ended up winning a scholarship which had a fully funded stipend and all your fees paid to go to Bangor University. And it's not long after that I met Sonya, my now wife, not in Wales, that's a different story. And yeah, it's all of the things that have happened after that that have brought me to where I am now. And I mean, I never imagined I would be involved in an online church back then, with some things as innovative as Crowd Church.. But, um, if I hadn't taken that step, you know, that, you know, that and many other things I've been involved in over the years, uh, would never have happened.
[38:34] Sharon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've got quite a few examples.
[38:39] Dan: Yeah, go on.
[38:40] Sharon: But one that comes— it's one of the bigger ones that come to mind, I think. One was when I was pregnant with our first child and, um, I was about to give up work, and I'd always wanted to be a full-time mom if I ever did have kids. Um, I know that's not what everyone wants to do, that's fine, but that's what we'd— and we felt that that was the right thing to do as well. We also had two lodgers at the time, but we needed one of their rooms. So we'd said to them, look, one of you can stay, but one of you is gonna have to go. And they decided they'd both go, possibly didn't want a screaming baby in the night in their ears. Um, so we were losing my income and the income from the lodgers And then Matt's company got taken over by, um, somebody else, and it just became really difficult. We weren't sure from one day to the next whether he was going to be promoted or fired, and it kept changing and swinging. It was just really difficult. Um, so there was this possibility of losing all of our income as well. But, and it was, I mean, it was especially hard for Matt because he was having to go into work and it was just crazy there and all these things were happening, whereas I was a bit more removed from it. But even in all of that, there was just this sense of excitement and a bit of peace, like, okay, all of our current income is possibly going to just disappear. But we just had this sense God was going to do something. And then, um, we unexpectedly got given loads of money by a friend who I think probably still wants to remain anonymous, which— it was completely out of the blue. And, um, that allowed Matt to resign from that company and then just work on his own company for the first year. Didn't get paid for quite a while, I can't remember how long. But again, that just felt very much like this is God's provision in this situation. It's like how he just lines the pieces up for you.
[40:40] Dan: Um, yeah, I like that word you said there, exciting. It is, isn't it? Like Following Jesus is, it's, it's hard, but there's times like that where there is that, there's that peace. But I do think there's that excitement as well, that because if you get to know him and you get to know how big he is and what he can do, you can go, oh, what's, what's he got for me if this is where things are going? Yeah, yeah.
[41:10] Sharon: But I, I think, like I said at the end, it definitely there is that excitement element, but there's also that actually sometimes things can be really—
[41:18] Dan: yes, yeah, really tough.
[41:19] Sharon: Yeah, in the middle of it. And actually sometimes life can be made worse by following Jesus. In many ways it makes life better, like from that internal— yeah— sense of peace. But I guess I'm thinking of the extremes now, like the people who, to— when they decide to follow Jesus, actually get ostracized from their families and worse for some. Yeah, but yeah, there's all this stuff in the mix. Yeah, but ultimately God is good and he's generous.
[41:48] Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, um, Ellis has said it can be difficult when you think you're behind or not where you should be, but it's calming to know that God is in charge and we can trust in him. Yeah, again, I was talking with— this conversation I had with Phil yesterday is perfect for this talk— how, um, the structure that we have with education and stuff is very rigid, isn't it? It's very like, you must be at this point by this year, you must be at this point. Doesn't have to be that way. And I think that does help to know that you can just put our trust in, in trusting God that something might take a bit, a bit longer.
[42:28] Ade: Yeah.
[42:29] Sharon: Yeah. I think it as well, it's not just— although the, these verses are talking about physical provision, I don't think it's just about that either. Like, I go through these cycles of, um, being really happy with what I'm doing, and then these little niggles can just get in, um, of being like, oh, other people my age are CEOs of companies and doing this, that, and the other, and what am I doing? I know maybe I should go and study and get these um, get like more qualifications or— but when I start thinking like that, it's actually all about making myself look better. And then it's like when I kind of get a hold of myself and go, hang on, what are you doing? Like, re— readjust your focus here. Who does God say you are? When I start living out of who God says I am, it takes off that pressure to have to try and be something big and shiny. And it means I can just go, okay, God's given me these gifts to do, so what things, what things can I study that are going to help me do this better so I can serve other people? And it's just a very different— it's just that slight, that shift in focus is really releasing.
[43:43] Dan: Yeah.
[43:44] Sharon: So it's like having that, that peace, that sense of identity, that sense of security that comes from knowing Jesus. Can just shift all of the things that you do.
[43:55] Dan: And yeah, yeah, you— I wrote it down here, you said in your talk, you're already someone. Yeah, yeah. God says you're already someone, and the, the things you buy and the things you do aren't necessarily your identity. Yeah, you're someone before all that, over and above, above all that.
[44:13] Sharon: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Any more thoughts from you, Ade?
[44:20] Ade: Yeah, just going back probably 5 minutes now, I just couldn't help but think of James 1:2, "Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that testing of your faith produces perseverance." I don't like trials. I don't really kind of go, "Yay, trials." Me neither. I see the merit. I look back and I see how I've grown. And if I'm honest with myself, yeah, okay, it probably was worth it. But sufferings, and I say what we're going through right now is one of those, but there's a greater plan to it. You know, we're all going to go through suffering at some point. You know, following Jesus is not a get-out-of-jail-free card to suffering. If anything, it invites it because you put a big target on your back for Satan to go and whack, play whack-a-mole with. But it changes you if you let it. If you just accept the situation you're in, hand it over to God, and not just kick and writhe against it, which, you know, let's face it, we all do from time to time. But it produces perseverance, it produces character and depth that we would not have gotten. It produces strength that we wouldn't have if we hadn't gone through this and if our faith hadn't been tested. We just don't see it at the time.
[45:58] Sharon: Yeah. In case there are people here who don't know your story, are you happy to give a little gist of what's going on at the minute?
[46:07] Ade: Um, sure. So, um, my wife has severe ME, and this means that she, uh— it's kind of a hard one to describe, but if you imagine never ever having any energy, and whenever you try and do something, you just want to collapse but you probably can't even do it anyway because you're that feeble. And over the last couple of years, I've watched, literally watched her waste away and, you know, watched her arms and legs look more like that of someone probably 30, 40 years older than her as she's not been able to move. And for a long time, I, you know, I just asked God, why? You know, you've healed her in the past. You miraculously healed her back like 10 years ago. That was amazing. But why for this? And I still haven't got an answer to that. But I see how, and it's funny because the number of times people in the midweek community group tell us that we're, you know, they find this, you know, completely inspiring what we do, how we just get on with it. I'm thinking, don't feel inspiring at all. Neither of us do. But we get a glimpse into the fact that yes, what we're going through is horrendous, but those around us are drawing strength from it and inspiration and helping them, you know, view their situations and even kind of get through some of the things they're getting through. I, you know, I genuinely hope to God that my wife is healed and that this is a season and not a life sentence. But, you know, God heals in his grace and there's no guarantee he will. There are days when I think, how the heck am I going to be juggle being a full-time carer? I'm working full-time till I retire. You know, I'm in my 40s now and it's hard going. What about 50s and 60s? But I just cast that into the future. That's not today's problem. So far, God has met all of our needs, not all of our wants, because we want to see her healed, but we get through each day. We manage with what we have, and we, we try to find the happiness in the, uh, in the small space that is our lives in comparison to before. Before, we were very active people. We were big into outdoor sports, we ran a strength coaching business part-time, we competed in weightlifting, we were very active in church with Christian charities, with music, all of that, that's all that's gone. And we try to quite often just find solace in going out into nature. And believe it or not, I actually started bird watching, you know, got some binoculars. We live near RSPB and it just happens to be, it's mostly wheelchair friendly, so it's somewhere beautiful. It's in nature, it's quiet. And after going there a couple of times, I thought I should probably get some binoculars so we can actually see these birds. And I couldn't tell you what on earth they are, but there's something weirdly relaxing about watching birds. Now this coming from someone who would rather take a polystyrene board out in a storm and try and ride some waves, you know, it's I'm surprising myself with, with this, but, uh, yeah, there is something calming about it.
[49:52] Sharon: Wow, it's Jesus' top recommendation. So there you go. I've got another question for you actually, Ade, if we've got time.
[49:57] Dan: Just—
[49:58] Sharon: yeah, it's not strictly to do with this, um, talk, but I think it's one that's really relevant. So Ade, you were talking about all this stuff that you're going through and have been going through for ages Um, and we're talking about this God of love, a God who's powerful, who could— who has healed Sonya in the past, could do it again. Like, many people at that point would have turned their backs on God and gone, I'm out, do you know what I mean? What keeps you going with God even though you know he could heal but he hasn't?
[50:35] Ade: I know there's no guarantees. I know he does it in his grace. I know in Genesis he handed over this planet to us and said, "Right, you guys have dominion over this. I'm staying out." I also think, I mean, holding on to my faith is one thing that's helped me get through this. And do you know what? It makes me a better person. So even if I've got this completely wrong and when I die there's nothing, or it's a mega party, everyone's invited, it's like spring break. But if I'm wrong and, you know, there is no God, I've been a nicer person in this life, and I have benefited from that in the relationships I've been able to have with people, as in people like nice people and not not nice people. I've had a peace that I wouldn't have had otherwise. So worst case scenario, you know what, this has actually helped with my existence on Earth right now. However, the other side of it, and I am right, well, in addition to all of this, I still know there's something far, far better and eternal after what we're going through now. And no matter how horrendous it gets right now, this is a blink of an eye in comparison to infinity and beyond.
[51:58] Sharon: Great. Yeah.
[52:03] Dan: Um, well, thanks for that, Ade. Um, we're, we're going to finish very soon. Um, I think Matt's going to put the live lounge details up, so if they're in the comments, so if you want to join us, um, afterwards for, for live lounge, just a bit more informal chat, then, then please do. Um, I just want to finish with, with this from Alicia that we, we were talking about, but 'Who does God say you are?' She says it's such a powerful perspective-giving question. I just want to put that out there. Who, who do you think God says you are? I mean, I would say, you know, you're loved, you're precious, you're an amazing creation. But if you want to get to know this Jesus, you want to get to know who he thinks you are, how much he loves you, then just put it in the comments, get in touch with Crowd — we'd love to introduce you to him. This is why we do it. This is why we do it, because we have a glimpse of what we think he is to us, and we want to share that glimpse with you. Yeah. Is there anything else you want to—
[53:08] Sharon: No, no, that's a great point to end on, I think.
[53:11] Dan: Well, thank you very much for tuning in, and we will see you in Live Lounge. If not, we'll see you next week.
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