How to Stand Up for What's Right

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Here’s a summary of this week’s sermon:

• The talk pivots on the narrative from Acts 6:8-15, involving the character of Stephen, the first Christian martyr.

• The central theme explores how to stand up for what's right, with Stephen's story as the guiding example.

• The sermon underscores the importance of character, understanding the opposition, relying on the Holy Spirit's guidance, fostering positive change, and the value of a supportive community when facing adversity.

• The talk is a stirring call to action, encouraging us to embody truth, justice, and love in our daily lives. This message prompts us to question our actions, prioritize doing the right thing, and draw courage from the Holy Spirit in standing up for what we believe in.

• The sermon's overarching lesson is one of resilience, integrity, and community support, urging us to rise above deception and destructive actions to create positive change in our world.

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💬 CONVERSATION STREET --

Matt + Sadaf discuss:

• What stood out to you from the talk?

• How do you do the right thing when no one’s watching?

• Were the members of the Sanhedrin the bad guys because they were opposing Stephen?

• It’s easy for us if a stranger disagrees with us on social media, for example, but difficult when someone close to us goes against us. What do you think about that?

• Why is it important for us to empathise with our opposers and try to understand their point of view?

• For Steven, standing up for what’s right wasn’t about  the end outcome. How can we emulate that in our lives? 

• All who were sitting in the Sanhedrin looked intently at Stephen and they saw that his face was like the face of an angel. What did you think of that?

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• Complete Transcript

  Matt: How to stand up for what's right. That's the question, of the video. Have you ever found yourself like in situation where you have had to actually stand up for Because it's not always that easy, is it? And it doesn't have to be a big deal either. I mean, how many of you have been in a shop and they've charged you less than what you have purchased?

  Because maybe they've missed something off. Do you do the right thing and tell them, or do you keep quiet and pocket the little bonus? What about when your friend, uh, posts something that is controversial or even offensive on social media? Do you speak up or would you ignore it and go along with it? We all face these kind of mini dilemmas, don't we, on a regular basis, but there's something in this that's important, something that I've learned, and it is this, what you do in those small situations.

  Is a predictor of what you're gonna do when the rubber really hits the road. So how do we stand up for what's right? I mean, just think about the anatomy of that question to stand up, to change your position is all about being seen or heard, isn't it? And it's not always that straightforward. We worry about how people may react about the potential of conflict, whether we'll be seen as a bit of a fruit cake. What happens when we stick our neck out and put it on the proverbial chopping block?

  And of course, there's a second part of that question as well. Uh, how do we stand up for what's right? You see, we're making a huge assumption here that we know what right is in that situation, that we know what truth is. Do we really, do we start to second guess ourselves when people challenge us? Or do we go too far the other way and dig our heels in and become really obnoxious with the truth? Now, truth is not something that I'm necessarily gonna get into in this talk because my wife has done a phenomenal talk called What does the Bible say about Truth? That you can get, uh, on our YouTube channel or on our website. Do check it out because it is a phenomenal talk about truth. And if you've not seen it yet, you are gonna want to check it out, right?

  So standing up for what's right is not easy. And it can even lead to things like the fear of being seen as judgmental or intolerant, especially if it's like a culturally hot topic. We may have questions, for example, about a topic, or we may see something that conflicts with our faith or our values, but we worry that if we ask those questions that we have or take stand on certain issues, we're gonna be labeled as intolerant or bigoted. And it can be actually quite a paralyzing thing to feel that pressure.

  I don't know if you have ever found yourself in a situation where you feel so strongly about something, but you just couldn't bring yourself to speak up. Maybe it was at work when a decision was made that kind of went against what you believe. You, you know, you just, you're not vibing with it, but you kind of, your heart races up, you clam up, and you just want to avoid the whole situation if you can.

  Well, you're not alone, uh, in feeling like that. Many of us have felt like that on many occasions. We don't like conflict and we struggle with it. We struggle with conflict. We try our best to avoid it, but that can hold us back from standing up from what we know to be right. And of course, as you would expect, this is a church talk.

  The Bible has a lot to say about this. There's a lot of people with a lot of stories similar to that. Take Esther a beautiful lady who, uh, had a massive conflict, but she risked her life to stand up for what was right for the sake of her people, and it wasn't easy. And today we're gonna dig into the story of Steven as we carry on our study.

  Through the book of Acts, we're gonna find five things that we can use to find the courage to stand up for what's rights. Oh Yes. Five things. And here's let's straight into number one, shall we? Work on your personal character. So, Let me set the scene. We are in Jerusalem and it is the early days of the Christian Church.

  Stephen was one of the seven chosen to help serve the church that we took on, uh, took on, touched on, uh, in last week's talk. Stephen, the Bible tells us is a man that is full of faith and of the Holy Spirit. He's full of God's grace and power. I mean, what a testimony that is. Right? He was a good guy.

  Someone who was doing good for a disadvantaged community and someone that God seemed to actually quite like, you know, and he was doing some quite amazing things through him. The Bible tells us that he performed great wonders and signs among the people in Acts six, eight. Now that sounds pretty awesome to me.

  The Bible is kind of painting a picture of Stephen and his character, isn't it? He is a caring and kind guy. He knows God and he is demonstrating God's love and compassion practically through serving and spiritually through Prayer. And all these signs and wonders sort of seem to be happening. Uh, and we also know you're gonna find out next week that man, uh, Stephen was a man who was well versed in scripture as well.

  Now all of these little points are quite important because standing up for what is right fundamentally is a character issue. Character it seems matters and character is not something that we buy. It is something that is forged and it is forged in how we respond to the guy in the shop that hasn't charged as enough yet because it's here that I, that I learned to feel, you know, that slightly uncomfortable feeling to listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit and to do the right thing.

  I practice in the small things so when the big things come along, I know what to do. And for Steven, there was definitely something bigger coming along, let me tell you. So what about you? Where can you work on your character? What is the Holy Spirit putting his finger on for you? Uh, if you're brave enough, write your answer in the comments.

  So point one, work on character. Point two, understand and empathize with your opponents. That's a tough one, isn't it? You see, for Steven, operation, operation, the Bible tells us that operations didn't happen. Opposition arose from members of the synagogue of the freed men who began to argue with Stephen Act six verses nine through 10.

  So opposition. We face opposition and disagreement every day, don't we? In the UK for example, we have just witnessed the coronation of King Charles the third. I watched it, I loved it. I got drawn into it. But I know not everyone is a fan of the monarchy. And there are all kinds of things like that that we can disagree on.

  You know, if you find yourself in a disagreement with a friend over a political issue, for example, we could try and take the time to genuinely listen to their perspective and try to understand their motives before responding. Which all sounds very sensible, doesn't it? But unfortunately, we don't see much sensibleness in Stephen's story here.

  Here are some people, and I'm gonna call them the vocal minority, who don't like what Stephen is saying or doing, and they start to get pretty loud about it. But before we jump in and judge them, let's find out who is this vocal minority and why are they opposing. Steven. You see, it's easy to read this story and just think of these guys as the bad guys, but I'm not so sure they were.

  Sure they are Jews, they are God's people and they want to please God, but some, somehow they seem to go about it in the wrong way. As I know, many of us can at times, hands up be included, right? They had customs and laws and traditions that were really important to them, and they felt like they were being challenged by this growing church, and Steven actually would've understood this because he's not ignorant of their traditions.

  Because they were his traditions too, right? In all likelihood, Stephen went to this synagogue where these guys were coming to oppose him from. He understood those that opposed him, and it's important to understand that those who have different arguments and ideals to you, we've gotta take the time to understand them.

  You see, too many times as Christians, we have gone in all guns blazing trying to railroad people to think that think differently to us. And historically, that has caused all kinds of harm. Think about the parable of the prodigal son, for example. Uh, in this parable, the youngest son asked for his inheritance early and he leaves home to live a life of indulgence.

  Eventually, things go a bit wrong, as we would probably have expected. Uh, and he realized his mistakes and he returns home and seeks forgiveness from his father. The older son who has been faithful and hardworking becomes resentful of the father's acceptance and celebration of his younger brother's return The father however, urges the older son who should actually know better to see the situation from his perspective, explaining the joy of having something that was so lost return, which highlights the importance for me of understanding different viewpoints, even when it challenges our own sense of fairness. Doesn't mean I have to agree with every viewpoint, does make sense to try and understand them, and Steven had that.

  But those from the synagogue, those that were opposing Steven didn't. They had, actually, they were the ones that had lost all sense of perspective. So the question here is, have you taken the time to understand everyone's point of view? You don't have to agree with it, but have you spent some time understanding it?

  You see, we can be too quick to judge without understanding the person behind the opposition, and that can be, well, that can be really hard to do. Which leads us to the next and perhaps the most important point, point number three. The Holy Spirit is your guide, and truth is your compass. We read in Acts six 10 that they, those that opposed Steven, could not stand up to the wisdom the spirit gave him as he spoke.

  That's impressive, isn't it? But let me tell you, this is gonna be really hard for our highly educated, uh, Jewish leaders to take. It may well have surprised them that their skill in rhetoric, which they were known for, couldn't stand up to the wisdom the spirit gave Steven as he spoke. And this is important because if we are gonna learn to stand up for what's right, first and foremost, we have to connect with the wisdom of the Holy Spirit as we speak.

  I'm gonna say that again. If we are to learn to stand up for what is right, first and foremost, we have to connect with the wisdom of the Holy Spirit as we speak. This has to be our Prayer. We have to pause, step back, and ask for winder uh, winder wisdom. You can ask for windows as well. Uh, but let me tell you, this is easier said than done, isn't it?

  I mean, if you're like me, I have a habit of letting my mouth run off before my brain and my spiritual intellect is engaged. This Matthew is not asking for wisdom. Mm-hmm. It's highlighting your total lack of wisdom is what it's doing. Anyway, the bottom line is the Holy Spirit is our guide, and he uses truth as a compass.

  So the Bible tells us that those who are led by the spirit of God are the children of God. It says that in Romans eight 14. Which is an incredible promise, isn't it? The Holy Spirit leads us. He guides us. He gives us the wisdom to deal with tricky situations. He is the one that gives me the courage to stand up for what is right.

  My help comes from the Lord, and if you're a Christian watching this, you have the spirit of God living in you. He is helping you and encouraging you and leading you. It's so awesome and amazing. But sometimes I might forget about that massive point. So how do we stand up for what is right? We let the Holy Spirit form our character in the day to day.

  We get understanding and we seek and rely on his wisdom. The Holy Spirit is our compass, and he uses truth, no, let me start that sentence. Get got that a bit wrong. The Holy Spirit is our guide, and he uses truth as a compass. Uh, and as exciting and as amazing as that is, even if I do mess up my lines, uh, it doesn't always mean that things will go well.

  You see, when the vocal minority get backed into a corner, what do they do? They shout louder. They ramp up their accusations. They fuel destructive actions rather than create positive change. Which leads me nicely to points number four. Point number four, create positive change rather than fuel destructive actions. So the Bible tells us that, uh, they persuaded, uh, some men to lie about Stephen in Acts six 11. Well, as we like to say, in England, that's just not cricket, is it? They persuaded men to lie.

  Have you ever done something you know to be wrong? Because in your mind, the end justifies the means? I have, uh, I used to tell lies to girls all the time because I didn't think my life was good enough and that they wouldn't be interested in me. So I invented a different me one that was based on lies. Humanity is great at justifying things that are wrong because the end justifies the means. This is what in essence happened with the investment bankers behind the whole financial crash in 2008. Politicians have turned the ends versus means into an art form with their lies and then their justification for their lies.

  Standing up for what's right means that we will come face to face with this tension of ends versus means, and we have to be really careful not to get sucked into this vortex of misdirection, half truths and lies. I have to create positive change rather than fuel destructive actions, or at least try to create positive change and definitely avoid fueling destructive actions.

  You see, not everyone in that synagogue was opposed to Steven, but the vocal minority were and they were loud and the vocal minority ended up persuading others to do things that were fundamentally wrong based on lies and incorrect information. They fueled these destructive actions rather than trying to create positive change. Again easier said than don't. Right? It's easier to remove the speck in someone else's eye, uh, than miss the plank in ours. I mean, think about how many times we have acted like these men who are so easily persuaded by these lies.

  We see it all the time on our social media feed, and we get outraged. So we share it and lend our voice to it. But do we take the time to investigate the issue? Or is it just propaganda from men that are using lies and half truths to fuel destructive behavior? Well, worse, we use social media as a place where we feel we can say things that we wouldn't say if we were face to face with somebody, perhaps the modern day version of cowardice.

  So let's not fuel destructive actions, especially with lies and half truths. Let the truth create the change. Let's let the truth try and create positive change. Does it always work? No, but that should be our agenda. Now, I wonder what's going through Steven's mind at this point when people are lying about him. Is he actually making a difference or is he making things worse?

  How's standing up for the right thing cost him more than he was prepared to give? See, these things will definitely be going through my head, that's for sure. And I think if I'm honest, it's a natural way to think because of what he's seen, because of what he is experiencing. You see, we look at Steven and definite, and it definitely does not look like any positive change is happening.

  So where did he get the courage to keep going? Point number five, belong to a supportive community. One thing that we do know is that Steven had a supportive community that he belonged to. A community where God was present. And maybe sometimes the wisdom of the Holy Spirit for Steven came through the mouths of those closest to him.

  Maybe that is where the encouragement came from, and we can learn from that. We can seek out those, uh, who, who can be wise, who can offer us wisdom, those closest tools. What are they saying? What is their wisdom? Maybe we are not facing opposition ourselves at this moment. Maybe we're not in Stephen's shoes.

  Maybe our brother or our sister is though who are in our community, and maybe I can seek the wisdom of God for them and encourage them with it. How do we stand up for what's right? We work on character. We understand and empathize with those that oppose us. We rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit. He's our guide, and truth is our compass.

  We look for ways to try and create positive change rather than fueling destructive actions. And five, we belong to a community of people that will encourage us, that will help us process and deal with what we face. And if you would like to be part of such community, uh, do let us know. We would love to connect with you in our Zoom meetings where we catch up, uh, with each other and support one another.

  Just head over to the website, uh, for more information about that. And if I remember, I'll ask whoever's hosting this service to put something in the comments on, uh, YouTube as well. You see this section of the story ends with se with these guys, these leaders, these liars seizing Steven and bringing him before the Sanhedrin, the Jewish Council and High Court.

  Next week we're gonna read the case notes from that trial, uh, this, uh, the week after that. We're gonna see the verdict of said trial, and we ask, is this gonna be a favorable outcome? Will Stephen get off just like Esther with the king? It turned out really well, or Daniel in the lion's dead and that worked out well?

  Is it gonna be good for Stephen? Well, spoiler alert, not on this occasion, Stephen is gonna be martyred all based on lies and injustice, which, if I'm honest with you, is horrific. But in the midst of this horror, we see God moving and the church growing, and how life is more than just what we face in that moment.

  All because Stephen stood up for what was right. So what are we to do with all of this? For me, Stephen, standing up for what was right, wasn't about the end outcome. I think Steven thought that was God's responsibility. His responsibility was to stand up for what was right, to do the right thing because it was the right thing to do.

  For Steven this mean, this means he just did it. He just, he wasn't concerned. I say he wasn't concerned about the outcome. I don't think the outcome, like I say, was the important thing. The means was justification enough. For his opponents though I think it was the opposite. I think they wanted a specific ending to this story and that justified their means.

  It justified their lies, and eventually Steven's murder. Remember the men that murdered Steven are God-fearing men who think you shouldn't murder people. Such is the irony. Imagine what the world would look like when we start to care more about doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do

  than we care about getting what we want. What a powerful challenge that is for all of us, whether you're a Christian or whether you're not. So as we get ready to move onto Conversation Street, I want to challenge each and every one of you to stand up for what's right in your own lives. I would love and pray for us to be a community that champions truth, justice, and love.

  So this week, can I encourage you to identify one situation where you can be the voice for what's right, whether it's in your workplace, your family, your social circles, your friendships. Remember, that the Holy Spirit is with you guiding you and giving you the wisdom and courage to make a difference. Stand up for what's right because it's the right thing to do, and let the Holy Spirit guide you and let truth be your compass.

  Coming up, we have Conversation, Street, but before we get into that, here's a clip from our podcast. What's the story which you can subscribe to on all your favorite podcast apps?

  Jen: God is good. God is faithful its something you have to repeat to yourself? This isn't the life that God planned for us, is it? When he created the world, he didn't create it with sin in it, sin entered the world and chaos resulted. Mm-hmm. Um, so I. I, you know, I wasn't somebody that thought, oh, God's letting this happen to, you know, like, because I've done something wrong or I've, I'm being punished, or, you know, like I wasn't, I wasn't into that kind of theology.

  You know, bad things do happen in life, but God is good through all of those, and God is faithful and that is something, even if that's just what you repeat to yourself, there will be blessings in each day that you can look for from God.

  Matt: So welcome back to Conversation Street with myself and Sadaf. Uh, great that you are here, uh, especially on a really hot, warm Sunday afternoon, uh, here in the uk. It is 20 degrees, 20 degrees, uh, which is just, it's just crazy. So enjoying it. It's great that you are here. I hope you're enjoying the sunshine if you're still in Liverpool.

  So, uh, let me just talk about what's the Story podcast and we'll get into Conversation Street, if you'd like to know more, check out whatsthestorypodcast.com. That was our conversation, which with Jen, which we did a few months ago. Uh, still one of the most popular downloads on the podcast. Um, and we work with Jen, don't we?

  Sadaf: We do.

  Matt: And she's a legend,

  Sadaf: She is.

  Matt: Absolute legend. So do check out that, uh, that episode, okay. Beynon, Let's get into it.

  Sadaf: all right.

  Matt: What, uh, what stood out to you for, I know what stood out to me from talk, so I actually prepped that talk, so I'm gonna ask you all the questions. Uh, what did you think? What stood out?

  Sadaf: I thought it was great. Not only because you were doing the talk.

  Matt: Yeah, I thought the talk was quite mediocre, Matt. I'm not gonna

  Sadaf: Everything you said was great, Matt.

  Matt: This is why we don't normally have the host do the talk at the same time.

  Sadaf: Um, no, I, I thought there was, I've written a few things down that I, that really stood out for me. Um, right at the beginning you were talking about, um, you know, standing up for what's right. You were giving a bit of, um, intro to what you were gonna be talking about. And the thing that came to mind was like, how do we, how do we do this privately and publicly? So, uh, sometimes we'll, we'll do what's right because everyone's watching,

  Matt: Mm-hmm.

  Sadaf: but you know, how we, how we're thinking and how we're speaking and interacting on a private level also matters. And you went on to talk about the Char personal character. Um, um, I can't remember the exact quote, but something about, um, character is not something we can buy, but something we forge.

  That is forged. And I think that comes in all those private places where you're having, where you're being, um, where you're doing the right thing consistently, even when no one's watching and you're not on a, you know, on the stage. So I, I thought that was, that was really great. And, um, I, uh, yeah, I think that's a challenge. I think

  Matt: Yeah, it is. It's a massive one. And that I've, I, I use the example right when you're in a shop and you know you've been given too much change.

  Sadaf: Mm-hmm.

  Matt: Um, has that ever happened to you where you, where the, the guys not charged you enough money or he's giving you too much change? Back in the old days when we used to use cash, dunno,

  Sadaf: I remember those days.

  Matt: it was before the flood, uh, is when Noah was around. We used cash and, um, and so, you know, and they would give you too much change back and you know, it, you know in yourself that they've not charged you the correct thing and you can walk away and no one will ever know that that's what happened. Do you know what I mean? No one's gonna figure it out. No one's gonna follow you up.

  Um, but it, for me it was always, I was always aware, I suppose from early on in my Christian walk, what you do in those, in those moments, both privately, you know, I mean that's, I suppose a little bit public, but it's also private. It's what you, what you do in those moments actually I think makes a big difference to the rest of your life.

  Um, and it, I think you're right. I think how you act privately standing up for the right thing privately, I think can so often be more costly because no one sees it, right? There's, there's, there's, that's the whole point. No one sees it. one knows. You've not got a name on it. There's no public recognition, there's no one pat you on the back. Um

  Sadaf: well done.

  Matt: yeah. Yeah. It's just funny, isn't it? It's like

  Sadaf: Mm-hmm.

  Matt: what and what you do in private matters, you know, how you talk in private matters, what you watch on TV when it's just you watching. Well, that kind of matters if you're a Christian, you know? Um, the stuff that you read, I think matters. The conversations you get into on social media, I think they all matter. Um, and so I think that's a very good point. Maybe you should have done the talk, cuz you could have put that in the talk.

  Sadaf: No,

  Matt: next time Sadaf. Maybe next time.

  Sadaf: maybe.

  Matt: So how do you, um, how do you do the right thing when no one's watching?

  Sadaf: Well, I think doing the right thing can mean different things to different people.

  Matt: Mm-hmm.

  Sadaf: Right? Like, um, you touched on this too, that even like the most brilliant natural mind cannot understand the spirit.

  Matt: Mm-hmm.

  Sadaf: That only you can understand the spirit when you're, when you're spiritually discerning, when the Holy Spirit gives you that discernment.

  So I think doing the right thing can mean different things to different people, depending on whether the Holy Spirit is your guide and what you know, helping you see the truth and walk in the truth. Does that make sense?

  Matt: Yeah.

  Sadaf: Yeah. So, um, and I forgot the question.

  Matt: how do you,

  Sadaf: Forgot where I was

  Matt: Yeah, yeah. What, how do you do what's right when it's private, when it's just you?

  Sadaf: Yeah. And so, yeah, that was the dog. Sorry. Um, can you not hear it? Okay. I can hear her loud. Um, alright. So I think when. Again, going back to what you're doing in the private spaces, and if you're letting Holy Spirit, um, guide you and speak into your life, you can be making those choices. Every single choice that you make, where you're doing the right thing, you're um, you're forging that character that you talked about, and every time you're not, then you're walking away from that.

  You're going on a different, you know, trajectory. And I think to be able to stay in that space where you're walking in step with the spirit, you, you have to, despite, you know, the cost of,

  Matt: Mm.

  Sadaf: um, your comfort or your reputation or your street cred or whatever it may be, you gotta, you gotta stay in step with the spirit.

  Matt: Very true. Very true. So how do you, have you got any examples of, for you where you've had to do that, that you can share obviously on a live stream? Um,

  Sadaf: Um,

  Matt: nothing

  Sadaf: I think, I mean, I don't, nothing, nothing like big and major comes to my mind, but I think like we're talking about, it's in the little things, right? So, um, how we, how we talk to people, how we interact, how we carry ourselves. It's in all the little ways that, um, we are to be glorifying the Lord. And when we're not doing that, going back to what we spoke about last week, being the first ones to say, look, I'm sorry I did what I did was wrong, right?

  Matt: Mm-hmm.

  Sadaf: Um, I think it goes hand in hand because we're not perfect in any way, but that's what we're aiming for. That's what we're, we're, um, uh, wanting to be, we wanting to be wise and full of the Holy Spirit as Stephen was.

  Matt: Yeah, totally. And actually one of the things about you Sadaf is you, you are very quick to apologize. Uh, it is something you do very well. I'm not saying you, you make lots of mistakes where you need to apologize, but you are, you do, you do apologize a fair bit. And one of the things that, um, stood out to me in this talk, cuz I, I've read this passage numerous times in my Christian walk. I don't think I've ever talked on, I've never done a talk about Steven, at least I don't think, I don't ever remember, uh, doing a talk about see, uh, Steven.

  And it's a, it is an interesting one, isn't it? Where I read it and I. I have always thought of the guys that were starting to spread lies about Steven as bad guys. In your head, you read it, therefore you are a bad guy. And actually, when I was thinking about it and I was thinking about these guys and trying to understand it from their perspective, I I, I started to see that maybe they, I mean, I don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating going killing people that you don't like.

  That's, they took it too far. But at this point, nothing bad has happened other than the fact that, wow, I say nothing bad. They've started spreading lies cuz they can't stand up to the wisdom. But until that point there's just disagreement. And I, and I don't think disagreement is a bad thing.

  Sadaf: Mm-hmm.

  Matt: you know what I mean?

  And I don't think, I think it was the f i, I dunno what happened in them to turn them from being just somebody that was disagreeing, having a, having a debate to somebody that went way too far into, I mean, you talk about cancel culture, this Stephen was canceled in quite significant ways. Um, and so, Do you know what I mean?

  I, I, it's, it is a fascinating one, isn't it? That in the midst of this story, something happened to the people because they didn't like where the argument was going. And I find this deeply challenging because there's a lot of debate going on at the moment in the world about a lot of things. Um, and it's very hard to have an opinion or have questions if it doesn't conform.

  And if it doesn't conform, you have instantly got this problem. And the more you stand up for that, the worse it's gonna get for you because the people who are opposed to your ideology get more and more violent for one. Violence is the wrong word. More and more aggressive is probably a better word in, in how they disagree. Uh, and that was, that was just something that I saw in these guys. Um, you know, we've had the same old problem for 2000 years, right?

  Sadaf: hmm. Yeah, I think, um, I think it is, it's fascinating actually because in last week's, Passage. It was, they were looking for men who were full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, and then they found these seven men, Steven was one of them. And then, um, they, they can't re they, they can't resist it either. So they're in an, they're in this conversation with him. They're accusing him of blasphemy, and they can't, they can't, um, catch him out.

  Matt: Hmm.

  Sadaf: And that's why they, they get people to, um, to accuse him isn't, I think there's something in, in the Jewish law where you have to have, um, if two or three,

  Matt: Yeah.

  Sadaf: you know, um, agree that he was blaspheming, then he would be, um, punished for that. So I, I, I do, and I find it fascinating that it's his, it's the fact that he's full of the Holy Spirit and of wisdom, which is, you know, as you pointed out, these were the same people. They would actually be on the same side,

  Matt: Mm-hmm.

  Sadaf: but for some reason they, they turn on him.

  Matt: Yeah. Yeah, they do. And it seems, one of the things I didn't say in the talk, I originally put in the talk, but I had to take it out because it was going on long enough, as it was to be fair, um, was this idea that actually these people knew Steven, right? So they, these guys were from the same synagogue, from the same church, it was people from his family, from his community that were turning on him.

  And, um, and it, it, it wasn't escaped on me that actually, that there, there may well be people watching, um, who feel like they have been turned on by their own family, by their own community, by especially the community of faith in church. Church is particularly great at. And I dunno, the reason why, I dunno whether it was right or whether it was wrong.

  I, you know, I'm, I'm not judging that. Um, but I, I appreciate that for someone like Steven, for when you've been in that situation, that's gotta sting, right? Because these, these were your friends, these were your colleagues, these were people that you hung around with. Maybe he grew up with them, I don't know. But it's, it's not just like these people are strangers or faceless people on Twitter making some kind of random comments. Do, you know what I mean? This is, it's quite a personal thing, I think.

  Sadaf: Um, I don't know this, if this is, I'm just speculating actually. Like, he was taken on to, um, wait on tables.

  Matt: Mm-hmm.

  Sadaf: So he knew firsthand the physical needs of the people he was serving. And I guess in some capacity he would've known their spiritual needs as well. So then to be, um, you know, he's, to be in this place where he's, um, yeah, I guess he's, he's then being accused by some of them and, and being treated this way, must have, um, really knocked him.

  But it didn't, I mean, it could have but it didn't. Right? Like the Holy Spirit and, um, the Lord's wisdom that he had was just phenomenal.

  Matt: Yeah. And I think that's actually, that shows his courage, right? You've gotta have a lot of courage, I think, to stand up for what's right, because it's easy to stand up for what's right. When I was gonna say, it's easy to stand up for something, that's when someone disagrees with you on Twitter. But when it's somebody who's close to you comes in and disagrees with you, I think it's quite a different thing.

  Sadaf: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think what it, for me, what it, um, his, his, um, life in these few verses shows me that he was faithful and diligent in where the Lord placed him. So he kind of just stayed on that trajectory. Like he was called to wait on tables. He knew, and I mean, actually he was called to wait on tables, but God also used him to do miracles in the lives

  Matt: Mm-hmm.

  Sadaf: the, the, you know, the people there.

  So, God's using him for more because he is being diligent where he's, where he's being called. I think too often people just wanna go straight to the top and be like the next Billy Graham or you know, whoever. But I think, um, that humility that comes with just being where the Lord has placed you and being open to being used by him, um, counts.

  Matt: Yeah. Yeah. And Graham's putting the comments here, even if the opposition at any point regretted their lies. And I, I, it's a good point actually, Graham, whether, whether they did or they didn't, uh, there would've been no way back was given false witness punishable by death at this time. It was in Leviticus, actually.

  You're right. Um, and again, this is one of those things that. Um, if you were caught lying, um, given false testimony in the court at the time, you would inherit the punishment that the person you were lying about was due to get. So if they could have been proved that they were lying in the court, then there Stevens accusers would in effect have been stoned to death.

  Um, and so the accusers, I think are taking a pretty big risk here. You know, there's, there's gotta be some real, there's gotta be some real confidence that they're gonna get away with it. Um, because they're, they're putting their lives on the lines. Try and get this man stopped. I mean, that's how aggressive I suppose, they were being and trying to get this man, you know, shut down.

  Uh, and so they believed it so badly that they were willing to put their lives on the line. And I think that's, um, I said it was quite a thing, isn't it? Are you, I don't know if I can empathize with that. I've never felt that strongly about anything, uh, that I was willing to put my life on the line. Um, I've not had to be in that situation. You know,

  Sadaf: No. No, me either.

  Matt: it's an interesting one. It's an interesting point, Graham. It's very, very true. Um,

  Sadaf: I also found your point about opposition interesting to empathize. Emphasize, emphasize. With emphasize. You're rubbing off on me, Matt.

  Matt: yeah. Yeah. In fact, uh, who was it? Jenny mentioned that the comments, windows and wisdom. Uh, I said to Jenny in the comments, I said, you know, the, the, the older I get, the more I seem to do these gaffs when I talk. But I just can't be bothered to take them out. I said, just let's just leave them in cuz they're just funny.

  Um, and also I'm not trying to be that polished guy. It's never been me. And so, um, but the funny thing is that. I used to sit in church when I was younger and laugh at older guys that would make these gaffs. And here I am doing, doing that very thing. So if you are younger than me and you are watching this laughing at me making gaffs, I just want you to know it's coming your way.

  Sadaf: What goes around comes around.

  Matt: Sorry. Sadaf we sidetracked

  Sadaf: No, that's okay. I was gonna say, I found your point in, um, interesting about empathizing with the opposition. And I was thinking in, in, um, in the context of, you know, acts six that we're looking at, and I was like, how if you were, if you were Steven, would you empathize with that? Like,

  Matt: Hmm.

  Sadaf: you know, um, I dunno.

  Matt: It's a tricky one. I think the, the reason I put that in there was Steven would've known them, and I think he would've understood, I mean, and you'll get this next week actually, when he talks, when we go through the court case, Steven understood their points and he understood where they were coming from because I'm, I imagine for, for a little while he would've thought the same thing. We don't know when Steven became a Christian and what his conversion story was like. And so his ability to empathize and understand be is right there. He underst Do, you know what I mean? He got that knowledge. And I think this is important because quite a lot of times in modern culture, we get involved in arguments that we know nothing about.

  You know what I mean? We have an opinion and, but there's no research, there's no knowledge, there's no depth, there's no understanding. It's like.

  Sadaf: Just jump

  Matt: Some of the, some of the questions, some of the, and I, I, I'm, I'm not trying to, um, single anybody out, but some of the things that have been said to, even on Crowd, you know, some of the, the comments that have been put up by obviously amazing people on the stream, but every now and again, you get people making comments and you that are, that are their opinions.

  Do, you know what I mean? Like they, they're said in a harsh, argumentative, arrogant tone, which is fine. I have no issue with that at all. I quite like the debate, if I'm honest with you, but it becomes very apparent very quickly that there's been no thought. There's no education, there's no concept behind what they have said.

  It's just, they're just joining in. It's just an emotional reaction to something. I don't like what you've said. Therefore, it's all fairy dust and unicorns. And you're kinda like, well, okay, have you thought about this? Have you actually looked at this? Have you researched this in any way? Yes or no? Um, and I think that's the thing that I learned from Steven here, is actually, if you're gonna stand up for what's right, you've gotta spend a bit of time understanding your opponent's arguments and, and get your head around that. Do does that make, I think that's just is

  Sadaf: it does.

  Matt: common sense really. So that's, that, that was my, my point there. And then

  Sadaf: remember the, sorry. Go on.

  Matt: now I was gonna say we, cause we need to wrap up Conversation Street. So, um, just cuz we're just having such a good time. The thing, the revelation of it all for me, um, you know, we can talk about character and all that sort of stuff, which was great.

  The revelation for me was it for Steven standing up for what's right wasn't about the end outcome. And I think sometimes we do things because we think it's gonna be a positive outcome.

  Sadaf: Mm-hmm.

  Matt: And so, God, I will do this if X, Y, and Z happens at the end, which we classify as positive as good, uh, in our minds how we define it. That's not what happened for Steven. Steven stood for what was right and it cost him, it cost him his, his life here on earth. Um, I mean some, you know, it ends pretty well. I mean, it ends pretty badly, but in that bad badness, there's some pretty amazing stuff that's gonna happen as we'll see. Um, but it cost him standing up for what was right, cost him.

  And I think this is an important point. He didn't stand up for what was right because of the end outcome. He, it wasn't something he was gonna gain. Um, and for him it wasn't a case of the ends justifies the means, which was another thing which came out of this. I'm, I'm okay lying and lying in court because, but frankly, you need to be stopped.

  And so the end justifies the means, um, for. For Steven, it was the other way around. It was the means justified the end. In other words, I'm gonna focus on standup for what's right. I'm gonna trust God with the end. I don't know what's gonna happen. Good, bad. It's not my responsibility. I just need standup for what's right here.

  Sadaf: Mm-hmm.

  Matt: And um, and that I thought was super powerful.

  Sadaf: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that goes back to what you were, you started off saying about, um, standing up for what's right, whether it's in the private space or in the public space. If you're continually doing that, then in the private place, then it's easy to do it in the public cuz you've got the habit and um, you know, you're already walking and stuff. It's easier.

  Matt: Fantastic. Any closing thoughts or comments from you miss Sadaf?

  Sadaf: Um, this might be a new topic, but Can I say it anyway?

  Matt: You're going to now, so.

  Sadaf: I'll do it really quick. I love, I love where it says, um, if I can find the verse at, at the end it says, um, very last verse, all who were sitting in the Sanhedrin looked intently at Stephen and they saw that his face was like, was like the face of an angel.

  Matt: Yeah,

  Sadaf: Um, I wanna know what you, what you think of that.

  Matt: when I think of the face of the angel, this is a really interesting phase. And when I didn't, I, I wanted to understand that a little bit more. And it, if I was gonna sum it up, it would be that when they saw him, they saw God, they saw the Holy Spirit, they saw the wisdom of God, they saw his godliness and his character, and that was not in dispute.

  And I think this is what actually causes a lot of the problems for him, because, uh, not only do they not like what Steven is saying, it seems that God is on his side.

  Sadaf: Mm-hmm.

  Matt: Um, and that's going against thousands of years of tradition for the, for the, for the listeners. Uh, and so. Yeah, the face of an angel. I think they just saw God in him and I, I think, I think that's quite a powerful thing to be able to see.

  Sadaf: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I think for them to, after accusing him to see that, I think, like you say, it's quite powerful. Like how are they, you know? How do you, yeah. They're standing up against him saying he's blaspheming against the God that now is showing up in his face.

  Matt: Yeah.

  Sadaf: Yeah.

  Matt: Yeah. It's quite a fascinating verse. Brilliant. Well, I enjoyed that Miss Sadaf.

  Sadaf: That was Good.

  Matt: Always enjoy Conversation Street. It always goes too fast. Uh, so thank you for joining me on Conversation. Street. Okay. What's happening next week as we start with the Dallas theme tune says Matt. Yeah, if you just joined us or you're joining late next week, I'm gonna be in Dallas, Texas.

  Uh, I'm staying with some beautiful people. Uh, I'm going to some events over in the States doing a bit of work over there, but I will be a hosting Crowd from Dallas, Texas, which I'm super excited about because a digital church, we can do that. We can host it from anywhere in the known world. So as long as our Internet's good, uh, rich and Michelle, I'm just forewarning you.

  Um, so that's why Matt saying the Dallas theme tune. Can I just say this? I know we're in there at a time, but. The first time I went to Dallas and stayed, uh, with Rich and Michelle, my great friends over there. Rich said to me, what do you want to do? Right? What's the one thing you wanna do while you're here?

  I said, I need to go to South Fork Ranch, which is where they filmed Dallas in the eighties. Cuz I was, I grew up in the, I'm a child of the eighties and I remember this soap opera and so I wanted to go see South Fork. And so Rich was like, are you serious? I'm like, sure. I want to go dance on the grass at South Fork Ranch whilst I'm singing the Dallas theme tune.

  And so that's what we did. We went over to South Fork, which is tiny by the way. Uh, we went over to South Fork Ranch and I've got a photo of me dancing on the grass. Uh, so yeah, I was, I was doing that so, What is happening next week? Next week we have John Sloan, uh, who is looking at the court case of Steven. Uh, so do come join us for that as we carry on with that conversation. Um, that's gonna be a great talk by John. Always a great talk by John. Uh, promote the zoom.

  Thanks Matt. Just flooding me with, uh, comments here. Uh, yes. If you like to join us in our midweek community, it'd be great to see you come and join us. Uh, go to the website for more information, which is, uh, on your screen, www.crowd.church if you're listening to the audio or @CrowdChurch on social media, get in touch with us and we will send you the link for the Zoom.

  We would love to see you there. Can we book Sadaf in for her november, December annual appearance, please. I, well, I just, I dunno what to say mate. It seemed like Sadaf is making more appearances, so, I just, this is the way she's gate crushing a lot at the moment, which is awesome.

  Sadaf: Yeah, gate crashing,

  Matt: You've even got a posh microphone and everything so.

  Sadaf: stepping up my game.

  Matt: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Stepping up the game, which, which I quite like. So thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for watching. Thanks for joining in. Uh, if you are watching this on catch up, we do livestream every Sunday, 6:00 PM here in the uk. Um, at least at 6:00 PM at the moment. May change in the future, might not.

  We don't know. We just don't just go to the website and, uh, you'll find the latest livestream time. Um, but yeah, if you wanna come join us on the livestream, we would love to see you, uh, in the conversation. Uh, do come and join in. So you're getting a lot of love Sadaf. You've been awesome apparently says here in the comments.

  Sadaf: Thank you.

  Matt: So yeah. Yeah. Love for Sadaf. So thank you for joining us this week. It's been an absolute treat, uh, being with you, and we will see you next week. Cue the outro. Uh, anything else from you, Sadaf, before I cue the outro?

  Sadaf: I'm good.

  Matt: Are we all good? Awesome. You're a legend. Have a good week. Bye for now.

  Thank you so much for joining us here on Crowd Church. Now, if you are watching on YouTube, make sure you hit the subscribe button as well as that little tiny bell notification to get notified the next time we are live. And of course, if you are listening to the podcast, uh, the Livestream podcast, make sure you also hit the follow button. Now by smashing the light button on YouTube or writing a review on your podcast platform.

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  It has been awesome to connect with you and you are awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear and hopefully we'll see you next time. That's it from us. God bless you. Bye for now.