#42 What If You're Wrong About Being Right? (Conflict Resolution in Marriage)

5 Oct

YouTube Video of the Church Service

Have you ever tried to disagree with someone who's absolutely convinced they're right? It's exhausting, isn't it? And if we're honest, we've all been that person at some point - utterly certain, completely justified, maybe even using spiritual language to back ourselves up.

This week at Crowd Church, Matt Edmundson tackled the topic of conflict. Not just in marriage, but in friendships, at work, online, and increasingly in our everyday interactions. Because we're living in extraordinary times, where we no longer just disagree with people's ideas, we've moved to fundamentally hating them as individuals. We've gone from "I think you're wrong" to "I think you're evil and dangerous." It’s even got a name: affective polarisation.

We've Forgotten How to Communicate

James, the brother of Jesus, gives us this brilliant framework: "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry." (James 1:19)

But we've completely flipped that script, haven't we? We're quick to speak, slow to listen, and really, really quick to become angry.

Proverbs 18:2 pulls no punches about this: "Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions." Ouch! That one stings because it's true. We may think we're being humble by having a conversation, but if we've already decided we're right before it even starts, we're not really having a conversation at all - we're delivering a verdict.

Winners and Avoiders

Matt identified two camps most of us fall into when disagreements arise.

The Winners

These are the people who approach every disagreement like a battle that must be won. Facts, logic, evidence - marshal everything until the other person has nothing left to say. The problem? You might win the argument completely, but something breaks between you. Your logic might be airtight, but you've lost the person. You're right, but you're alone.

Matt shared honestly from his own business experience. As someone who runs a company, there's a certain amount of ego required - you have to believe you're right enough to back your decisions. But he's learned the hard way that he desperately needs pushback. He created a board where everyone has equal votes, regardless of shareholding, and recently, they pushed back on his suggestions.

"I found it deeply annoying," he admitted, "but also very, very helpful."

He's still learning to see disagreements as opportunities rather than battles to win. Because in marriage, especially, if you approach communication with a "must win" mindset, you may gain the argument but lose the person.

The Avoiders

Then there are those who avoid conflict entirely. Don't rock the boat. Keep things pleasant—peace at any cost.

At first, this strategy seems brilliant. No fights, no tension, everything's calm. You tell yourself you're picking your battles wisely. But while you're avoiding the conflict, you're also preventing the connection. The things that matter most go unspoken. Hurt and resentment build quietly, like mould behind a wall you can't see until the damage is catastrophic.

One day, it could be tomorrow or next year, but something small happens, and you explode. All that suppressed hurt comes out at once, and your partner is completely blindsided because they had no idea this was building.

You may have kept the peace, but the net result is a loss of intimacy. You start withdrawing, even if only a little. You become more like roommates than life partners.

Paul puts it perfectly: "If I understood all of God's secret plans and possessed all knowledge, but didn't love others, I would be nothing." (1 Corinthians 13:2). Knowledge without love destroys. But Jesus also speaks directly to avoiders: "If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offence." (Matthew 18:15). Go. Tell them.

Don't store it up. Don't pretend everything's fine. Biblical love doesn't demand you win, but it also doesn't allow you to hide.

Six Biblical Principles for Conflict Resolution

Matt unpacked six practical principles from Ephesians 4:25-32 that reframe how we handle disagreements:

1. Stop Telling Lies - Tell the Truth

So stop telling lies. Let us tell our neighbours the truth, for we are all parts of the same body.

This means complete transparency in marriage—no hidden websites, no secret social media accounts, no private text messages that exclude your spouse. Marriage is not a place for secrets. If you can't share it with your spouse, there's a strong chance you shouldn't be doing it.

2. Control Your Anger - Deal With It Quickly

Don’t sin by letting anger control you. Don’t let the sun go down while you are still angry, for anger gives a foothold to the devil.

Unresolved anger ferments into something toxic. Small things become mountains when we let them fester. Keep short accounts. Deal with things quickly. Don't give the devil a foothold.

Look at what's happening in UK society right now - anger has been building up over the years, and now it's erupting everywhere. People are venting like there's no tomorrow because they've kept things unsaid for so long.

3. Watch Your Words

Don't use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement.

This should be a guiding principle, especially on social media. It is becoming harder to tell Christians apart from non-Christians based on how we speak online. The contempt in our words, the tribal anger - we sound just like everyone else.

When we consume primarily politically charged content, we get discipled by social media, by anger, by fear, by tribal thinking - rather than by the Holy Spirit. We conform our speech and emotional responses to match our political tribe rather than our spiritual calling.

Your words should build up, not tear down. They should be characterised by grace and truth.

4. Get Rid of Bitterness

Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as all types of evil behaviour.

Notice who Paul is talking to here - you, not them. Not your spouse, but you. This is about personal responsibility. Deal with how you communicate. Get rid of the bitterness and rage.

You may have every right to feel the way you do, but consider getting rid of it anyway because it's not helping you.

Paul reminds us that love keeps no record of being wronged. Stop being "historical" in your arguments. Stop bringing up failures from 1992. It's time to let it go.

5. Be Kind

Be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you.

Let's be clear: kind does not mean soft or weak. Sometimes the kindest thing you can do is confront the issue directly. Kindness isn't about being quiet or avoiding difficult conversations; it's about being genuine and open. Kindness is about communicating with a tender heart.

Matt shared how he learned early in his marriage to be the first to apologise. He sat in his study, wrote things down, and examined what he'd contributed to the conflict rather than defending his position. When he did, both their guards came down, and they could actually have a real conversation.

Jesus puts it brilliantly: "Why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye." (Matthew 7:3-5)

The chances are really high that you have what Jesus called a log in your own eye. So, apologise for that. Own it. Be the first to apologise.

This is hard - the hardest thing is letting go of the belief that you're right, especially when emotions are involved. But without a doubt, 99 times out of 100, there's always something you can own up to and apologise for.

6. Remember How Much You've Been Forgiven

Just as God through Christ has forgiven you.

This is the game changer. When you remember how much you've been forgiven - your pride, your defensiveness, your offence, your need to be right, the ways you've hurt God and others - it becomes easier to extend that same grace to your spouse.

What This Looks Like Practically

Matt shared from his own life. He journals, prays, and walks - often doing all three together. And he always tries to do it within a day because he never wants bitterness to fester in him.

Recently, life had been busy, and he hadn't been spending as much time with Sharon as he should or as she deserved. Sharon was feeling it. Matt could have justified it - men are great at justifying work and busyness - but that wasn't the point. He needed to get rid of the log in his own eye.

So he apologised. And it wasn't the "I'm sorry you're upset" or "I'm sorry you feel that way" kind of apology - that kind deserves a slap, honestly. It was a deep, proper repentance after taking time to think about what he'd done and what he needed to apologise for.

And it led to talking things through that needed addressing.

Conversation Street: The Phone Problem

We've all seen it - the couple in a restaurant, both on their phones. Or you're around someone's house and everyone's scrolling instead of talking. The rise of social media and short-form content has infiltrated our conversations.

Dan shared how he and Lisa have to be conscious about putting phones down, realising that most things aren't as urgent as they feel. "My excuse was that I run a business, I need to be on my phone. It's not that urgent. I can wait and do it all together in one go."

Jenny and her husband have established rules: phones aren't allowed at the dinner table or in bedrooms. They try to plan intentional times when they'll connect - even if it's just an evening meal at home, with phones put away. "It's so addictive," she admitted. "We go through seasons when we're more addicted and find more excuses. We'd be terrible if we weren't trying proactively to be on top of it."

Practical tips that emerged:

Use summary notifications instead of constant alerts
Get a second phone line to separate business from personal
Take a deck of cards when you go out as a family
Establish phone-free zones and times
Wear a regular watch instead of a smartwatch when out with your spouse

But What About Compatibility?

Jenny raised a question that's becoming increasingly common: "Maybe we're just not compatible. Maybe I picked the wrong person. Maybe the best thing is to go our separate ways."

Matt's response was characteristically direct: "Let's be clear - you are not compatible. Fundamentally, you are flawed human beings. So there's gonna be an element of tension and disagreement."

Life isn't like the reels you see on social media. Marriage is complicated and messy. Don't be surprised if it's not what you expect.

But if you've made a covenant promise, that's a promise. Assuming there's no adultery, abuse, or abandonment - if it's just a couple who cannot get on - Matt doesn't think that nullifies a covenant promise.

"Compatibility becomes about you swallowing your pride, the pair of you, and doing something to rectify the problem. Once you're in, you're in. You've got to find a way through."

Jenny added her own experience: "Me and my husband actually have hardly anything in common. Sometimes we're like, how did we end up married? But we have a great marriage because we've worked through a whole ton of stuff multiple times. You were attracted to each other because you're different, and that difference is what sometimes makes you infuriating now. But it's okay."

The key is a humble heart and shared vision. As long as you're committed to that covenant before God, God will help you work through pretty much anything.

Your Next Step This Week

Biblical love doesn't avoid conflict; it expects conflict and endures it. Modern culture views conflict as a sign that the relationship is failing. Scripture sees it as an opportunity for love to be refined and deepened.

Matt's challenge is simple: Next time you think you are right, ask yourself, "What if I'm wrong about being right?"

Be the first to apologise - not because you're weak, but because you're wise enough to value the relationship over being right.

Start there and see how it goes.

Because when everyone else has forgotten how to be human with each other, we can demonstrate as Christians that another way is possible. We can learn to disagree well, to debate without being offended, and to be okay with people not agreeing with us without feeling crushed.

We can show that love keeps no record of being wronged, that grace is more powerful than being right, and that connection matters more than winning.

# What If You're Wrong About Being Right?
[00:00:00]
## Intro
Matt Edmundson: Hello and welcome to Crowd Church, coming to you live from Liverpool this Sunday night. My name is Matt Edmundson, and whether this is your first time or whether you've been part of our journey since the beginning, it's brilliant to be with you. We are a community of people figuring out what it means to follow Jesus in real life, not the polished, perfect version, but you know, the messy, genuine, brilliant reality of this whole thing called Christianity.
So let me give you a little roadmap of what's gonna be happening. Over the next hour. We'll have a talk, lasts about 20 minutes, looking at the topic of relationships, which is the section of our series becoming whole, that we are looking at exploring how Christ makes us whole across every domain of life.
After the talk, we've got Conversation Streets. Oh yes. This is where we [00:01:00] dig into what you've just heard, and you get to be part of that discussion. So if you're with us live, jump into the comments, share your questions, your thoughts, and your stories. And of course, if you are watching on Catchup or listening to the podcast, then thanks for being part of the Crowd too.
Right? Let's meet your hosts and let's get started.
## Welcome
Dan Orange: Welcome to Crowd Church. It's great to be here with you today. Today I am joined by wonderful Jenny Mariner.
Jenny Mariner: Evening. It is an absolute pleasure to be here with you. So what are we up to this evening?
Dan Orange: So we're on part three of the marriage, little marriage section we're doing in the whole, um, being whole series and a little bit on, on marriage, which I'm looking forward to.
Jenny Mariner: Yeah, absolutely.
Dan Orange: And it's a, it's a tricky one today, isn't it?
Jenny Mariner: Yeah. We're looking at conflict, [00:02:00] which let's be honest, I think all of us experience one way or another in marriages and another scenario. So I think a lot of what we're gonna talk about today will be relevant.
Dan Orange: Yes. Even
Jenny Mariner: if you're not married.
Dan Orange: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's, it's an essential thing just for, just for life. How to, how to cope with conflict, how to, how to work through it, how to. Wow. I was gonna say win, but I think that's a bad thing to say. I think Matt would say that's probably one of the problems. Um, but how to both, how to both be winners, how to
Jenny Mariner: navigate conflict well and maintain good relationships.
I think that's what we're hoping to unpack. Yes.
Dan Orange: I think that sounds a lot better. Um, well, Matt's going to speak to us, so I think let's hand over straight to Matt.
## Talk with Matt Edmundson
Matt Edmundson: Well, good evening Crowd Church. Great to be with you. Uh, yeah. Tonight we're looking at conflict. What if you are wrong about being right?
That's the question, which I think is a [00:03:00] pretty, pretty hard question, isn't it? Uh, especially in communication where we disagree and conflicts arise, whether that's in our marriages or in our friendships or in our work relationships, wherever it is. And this is the, uh, what is the question we're asking ourselves today?
What if I'm wrong about being right now? Have you ever tried to disagree with someone who is 100% convinced that they are right? Not because you are that person. Obviously you are never that person. Uh, that's convinced they're a hundred percent right, but we've definitely spoken to someone that is a hundred percent right and it's really, really hard, isn't it, to challenge them.
And in Christian circles. We have this special kind of language that we like to put around it. Like I'm approaching this with humility, which usually means I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm [00:04:00] right. But I've told God that in the really, really unlikely event that I could be slightly wrong, he should point it out to me, uh, in the most clear and obvious way possible.
But until he does, I'm right. Now, I've had a lot of these conversations with people, uh, over the years in this sort of exact scenario. But let me tell you, that's not humility. Actually. That is pride. And before we get too far in our memory, banks replaying those sort of conversations, we do have to ask ourselves that sort of uncomfortable question.
How often do we do exactly the same thing? How often do we approach a conversation or a disagreement knowing that we are right? And if you're a Christ follower, how often do you use spiritual language to justify that position? [00:05:00] My favorite one being God told me now. It's not just in the church that we have this particular problem.
I think we're living through what I would call extraordinary times here in the UK right now. I mean, they, they are a bit bonkers and researchers are calling it effective polarization. Great term. Uh, it's where we don't just disagree with anybody else anymore. We don't just disagree with their ideas.
Actually, we've taken it to the next level. Well actually more than the next level because we've moved from disagreeing to actually hating them as people. So it's no longer, I think you are wrong, but actually fundamentally and wholeheartedly, I think you are evil and I think you are dangerous and I think it's a bit of a problem, right?
So, uh, we have now in the UK free speech rallies. Um, but there are speakers literally standing on stage [00:06:00] calling for the banning of all public expressions of non-Christian faith. There are also cases where Christians are arrested and investigated because someone perhaps from another faith or another people group don't like what they are saying.
And we see videos all the time of street preachers getting arrested. But how's that free speech? And it leads us to this idea then that free speech works as long as it aligns with my views. And if it doesn't align with my view, then it's not free speech. It's hate speech. And the government's response to all of this, well.
I'm not a big fan of criticizing the government all the time, but I don't think it's particularly been great as we've seen a sort of a huge crackdown, uh, on free speech. And we see police now are making over 30 arrests a day for offensive online posts. [00:07:00] And this cultural narrative is beginning, I think, to sort of seep into our homes, into our marriages and even our churches to some degree.
And I think as Christians, we should be on God for this because I do not think it is biblical thinking, and I definitely don't think it's biblical thinking around politics either. Because in all this political tribalism, Christianity for me, genuinely transcends it, and it subverts this sort of left and right political spectrum in ways actually that I think should make both sides really, really, really uncomfortable.
Christianity doesn't fit neatly into political boxes because I think it operates from a fundamentally different premise than secular political ideologies. So Jesus, when we look at him, he came to orient us to toward [00:08:00] heaven, first to seek the kingdom of God and his righteousness. He didn't come to orient us towards the left or to the right, and so I think we have to be really careful not to weaponize our Christianity for our political viewpoints, to exasperate them and to exasperate the problem.
It's as if we've forgotten the fundamentals of how to communicate and how to dialogue and even dare I say it, how to disagree and to do that well. So James, the brother of Jesus, who's a bit of a legend, says, everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry, quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry.
And I think we've completely flipped that script. Uh, and we, I think it's, it's totally inverted. We're quick to [00:09:00] speak, we're slow to listen, and we're really, really, really quick at becoming angry. But if we did, as James suggests, and if we become quick to listen, I think then we spend more time trying to understand the other person, that person in front of us.
There's a book in the Old Testament called Proverbs, which is called like the wisdom book, and it's basically a book of sayings. Uh, all very wise sayings, but it is really, really brutal on occasions, isn't it? It just absolutely pulls it out. Uh, and in Proverbs 18, two, it says that fools, and I want you to pay attention to the word fools.
Fools, find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Sometimes, right? When you come to the Bible, all you can say is [00:10:00] ouch. Right? That's one of those moments, fools take pleasure in not understanding, right? There's no pleasure in that. They're not quick to listen. They're not slow to speak.
They're the opposite of that, and they delight in being heard. Now, we may think we're actually being humble because we're willing to have a conversation, but if you've already decided ahead of time that you are right. You're not really having a conversation, are you? You're more, you're more delivering a verdict and maybe according to Proverbs, being a fool At the same time, and like I say, all you can say is ouch.
Now, my observation, people usually fall into one of two camps when it comes to disagreements. We have the winners and we have the avoiders, the winners, and the avoiders. Now the winners decide they're going to win the arguments, right? I'm right, you know, I'm right. [00:11:00] I just need, you know, to marshal the facts, the logic, the evidence, and everyone will see that.
I'm, in fact, right now, if you don't know me, if you've never really sort of connected with us at crab before, you may not know that I run my own business. I have a company, we have a team in that company, and if I'm really, really honest, there is a certain amount of ego. Uh, required for that role. Now, I have to believe, uh, that I'm right enough to back my decisions, right?
But I definitely need pushback on those decisions. This is something that I've learned over the years, sitting on various boards for PLCs, for charities, right? There's power in having around you people who think differently. And so I created a board for my own company, and it doesn't matter about shareholding, who owns what shares, but we all have equal votes.
So recently when I [00:12:00] decided to make a big, or when we had to make big decisions about our company, the board pushed back on my suggestions, which, if you know me, I found deeply annoying, uh, but also very, very helpful. Now, it was annoying because I thought I was right. Right. It just, it just was, but it's helpful because it makes me, uh, think about things properly.
And I think ultimately we reached the right decision by doing that. And I'm still learning, you know, to see disagreements has, uh, opportunities rather than sort of battles that I, that I have to win. So if I approach communication with this sort of winner mindset, uh, especially in my marriage, you know, this idea of I must win, then I think you're gonna run into problems because you may win the argument.
I mean, you may win it completely. They have nothing left to say. Your logic is [00:13:00] airtight, and yet something's broken between you. Something is broken between you and them, and facts just cannot fix it. You may be right, but you're alone. You've gained the argument perhaps, but you've lost the person. The other one we have are the avoiders.
Now, all of this sort of extreme noise that we've been getting recently, all this gerrymandering from the left and from the right, has created what researchers call a spiral of silence. A spiral of silence is a great phrase. Uh, people have stopped expressing their views because they think that it will be unpopular, and we've actually become now genuinely afraid to express opinions on anything controversial.
Maybe you are not the person then who needs to win every argument. Maybe you are the person who avoids them [00:14:00] entirely. Just don't rock the boat, don't bring it up. Keep things pleasant, please peace at any cost. And at first this strategy might work well. There's no fights, there's no tension. Everything seems calm, and you tell yourself that you're a bit of a genius because you know you are picking your battles, you're not making a fuss over the small things, and there is a place for that.
But actually in that, not only are you avoiding the conflict you, you're actually avoiding the connection. The things that matter most then go unspoken. And I think that hurt, that resentment builds up and it grows and it grows quietly and subtly. And you might not even know it, but it's there and it's building and bit like mold behind a wall that you can't see until the damage is catastrophic.
So one day, right? And it could be tomorrow, it could be in a month, it could be [00:15:00] next year. But some point in the future, something small is gonna happen, right? And you are gonna explode. And all of that suppressed hurt, all of that anger, all of that, whatever it is, is gonna come out of you at once. And your friends, your partner, your spouse, your family, they're gonna be seriously blindsided because they had no idea that this was building.
So you may have kept the peace, but I think the, the net result of this actually is a loss of intimacy as well, right? And as things build up, you start to withdraw, even if it's just a little bit. Um, and so actually you start being more roommates rather than life partners navigating, you know, all of this stuff together.
The Bible tells us, um, it's really interesting verse, right? It says, uh, Paul, right into the Corinthian church said, if I understood all of God's secret plans [00:16:00] and possessed all knowledge but didn't love others, I would be nothing. I just love that phrase, right? If I understood all of God's secrets, and this speaks to the winners, doesn't it?
Knowledge without love destroys so you can understand everything. You can have all the facts, you can have all the figures, you can even understand all the secrets of God himself. Uh, but without love, it's not gonna work for you. Right? But Jesus also speaks directly to the avoiders in Matthew's gospel, he says, if another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense.
So you go, you tell them, right? You go. You tell them. You don't store it up. You don't pretend that everything's fine. So biblical love doesn't demand you win, but it also doesn't allow you to hide and remember in [00:17:00] all of this, right? The goal, the fundamental goal in all of this, that verse in Matthew 18, if you read the latter part of.
It's all about resolution. It's all about restoration. It's all about winning people. It is never about vindication. So in Ephesians, um, the Apostle Paul is right into a church that has very similar issues to what we face now. A lot of communication issues were going on in that church. And he gives them, uh, six practical principles, which we are gonna run through 'cause they're really, really good.
Right? So make sure you're taking notes. Number one, Paul writes this, stop telling lies. Let us tell our neighbors the truth for we are all parts of the same body. So stop telling lies, right? Tell the truth. This, especially in your marriage, means complete transparency. No hidden websites. Men, no secret social media [00:18:00] accounts, no private text messages that exclude your spouse.
Marriage is not a place for secrets, so if you can't share it with your spouse, there's a really strong chance you should not be doing it. Just putting that out there. Number two, uh, don't sin. By letting anger control you, don't let the sun go down while you are still angry for anger gives a foothold to the devil.
That's quite fascinating language, isn't it? Control your anger and basically deal with it quickly. And I think, I think this whole idea of not letting anger control you is fascinating and not letting the sun go down on your anger. So you, you have to understand your anger and you have to deal with it quickly.
Don't give the devil a foothold. Why? Because unresolved anger ferments into something like super toxic. And I've seen this over the years as well. You know, where small things become [00:19:00] mountains, uh, when we just let them fester. So if you just look at what's happening in the UK at the moment in our society.
This is what I see. Anger has built up over years. People have kept things and not said things. Maybe it's the spiral of silence, but all of a sudden it is exploding all over the place and people are venting like there's no tomorrow. So in your marriage especially, keep short accounts, keep short accounts, deal with these things, and deal with them quickly.
Number three, one of my favorites, don't use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be good and helpful so that your words will be an encouragement. So watch your words. Right? And I think Christians listen up. This should be a guiding principle, especially on social media, right? It breaks my heart.
That is [00:20:00] becoming, I think, harder and harder to tell Christians apart on social media from non-Christians, the way we speak, the contempt in our words, this tribal anger, which is building. We sound just like everyone else, except I think we're called to be different. We're called to be salt, and we're called to be light.
So when we consume primarily this sort of politically charged content, what happens? Well, I think we get discipled and we get discipled by social media, by anger, by fear, and by tribal thinking rather than by the Holy Spirit. And so we do the opposite of what Paul says in Romans two, where he says, do not be conformed to this world.
But that's exactly what we do. We start conforming our speech and our emotional responses to match our political tribe rather than our spiritual calling. But the countercultural narrative of [00:21:00] Christianity, I think, gets compromised in this scenario when we can't tell the difference between a Christian and a politically engaged atheist based on how they talk online.
It's a little bit scary. So your words, according to the Apostle Paul should build up, not tear down. They should be characterized by grace and truth. And also I think focus on the gospel. Number four, get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as every type of evil behavior.
That's a pretty encompassing verse, isn't it? But the interesting thing about this verse, uh, you have to ask who is the subject of the sentence, right? Who's Paul talking to? He's talking to you, not to them, not to your spouse, but you, right? Uh, this is where the Bible, I think on many occasions, talks about the importance of [00:22:00] personal responsibility.
And this is such an occasion deal with how you communicate. Get rid of the bitterness and the rage. Stop holding onto stuff, and you may have every right to feel how you do, but get rid of it anyway, because I don't think on any kind of level it's helping you. So Paul reminds us that love right keeps no record of being wronged.
I love this first 'cause It reminds me of a, a story I heard once from a fellow. He said, whenever my wife and I get into an argument, she doesn't become hysterical, she becomes historical. Um, and I think we have to stop that. We have to stop being historical in our arguments. We have to stop bringing up a failure from 1992.
It's time to let it go, right? Number five, be kind to each other, tender hearted, forgiven one another just as God through Christ has [00:23:00] forgiven you. Be kind, be kind. Um, is the way you are speaking to that person, to your spouse, to your friend, to your work colleagues, is it kind, is what you're about to post on social media.
Kind. Now, let's be clear. Kind does not mean soft, and it does not mean weak. And actually sometimes the est thing you can do is confront the issue directly. Kindness isn't about being quiet, it's not about avoiding the difficult conversations. Kindness is just about communicating with a tender heart in them and being tenderhearted.
If I'm honest with you, I think it's just being the first to apologize. Um, something that I learned early on, uh, in my marriage, I learned this principle. Well, let me tell you. I can't even remember what Sharon and I were talking about, but I do remember making a deliberate decision [00:24:00] to apologize. I sat in my study and I'm like, I thought through and I wrote things down, and I examined what I'd contributed to the conflict rather than defending my position.
Which would've been the easier thing to do. Um, and when I did guess what, right? Both our gods came down and we could actually have a real conversation and get to the heart of the issue. And Jesus puts it this way in his own incredible style. Why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own hypocrites?
First, get rid of the log in your own eye. Where do you go with that? Right? The chances are really, really high that you have what Jesus called a log or a plank in your own eye. So apologize for that. Own it. Don't hide from it, own it, and then be the first to apologize. And I appreciate right? That is a lot easier said than [00:25:00] done.
Right? I know. I get it. Uh, this is really hard. The hardest thing to do is to let go of the belief that you are actually right, especially when your emotions are involved. I mean, it just is. But without a doubt, I'm convinced 99 times out of a hundred there is always something that you can own and that you can apologize for.
Own what you can own and apologize for that and start there. Number six, uh, and all of this Paul ends by saying, just as God through Christ has forgiven you. Now, that's the game changer, right? So when you remember how much you've been forgiven, your pride, the defensiveness, you know, the offense, uh, the need to be right, the ways you've hurt God and others, when you remember what you've been forgiven, it becomes easier to extend that same grace to your spouse.
So what does this look like [00:26:00] practically? Well, for me, it involves all of the tools. Let me tell you. I journal, I pray, I walk quite often. I will do all three together. And I always try and do it within a day because I never want that to fester in me. You know, get rid of all bitterness. So I've gotta do that.
I've gotta go, uh, and get that bitterness out. And recently life has been, well, it's been a bit busy, um, and I have not been spending as much time with Sharon as I should or as she deserves. And Sharon was feeling it. Um, and I could have justified it because as men, I think we're great at justifying work and busyness.
But that's not the points, of course. No, you've gotta get rid of the log at your own eye. So I apologized and it let us. To talking things through that needed addressing. And it wasn't the, I'm sorry, you are upset. I'm sorry you feel that way. Kind of apology. 'cause that kind of apology deserves a slap in the face just saying, uh, but actually take [00:27:00] time to think about what I'd done and what I needed to apologize for and deeply and properly repent and apologize for it.
So biblical love does not avoid conflict. I think it expects conflict and I think it endures conflict. Modern. The modern cultural narrative may view conflict as a sign that the relationship is failing somehow. But I think scripture sees it in a different way. I think scripture sees it as an opportunity for love to be refined and to be deepened.
Now, if you're like me, you will spend a lot of time thinking about heaven and what it's gonna be like. I'm looking forward to a lot of things about heaven. I'm looking forward to sliding down those streets of gold in my socks, because I think that'll be fun. Uh, but one of the things I'm definitely looking forward to is there being no crazy social media posts or statements, right?
No bickering. [00:28:00] Just good old fashioned conversation with curiosity, you know, and kindness and humility. I mean, that would be amazing, wouldn't it? Wouldn't it? It's just, I just love this idea, but I don't think we have to wait for heaven before we as Christians start practicing that. I think we have to learn biblical ways to communicate, to be curious, and not be right all the time, especially in our marriages.
But actually with everyone, if I'm honest with you. Um, like I said, it's almost like a missing skill that we used to have that we somehow forgot. You know, we did communicate, but now we're sort of reverting back to being cavemen, you know, and shouting only. Now we have really, really sophisticated language to make it sound super, super smart.
If we really learn to communicate with our spouse and with each other in a way that reflects both grace and truth in a way that is both clear, but also kind, what a [00:29:00] difference that would make. It's a kind of communication that I love to learn, to disagree well, to debate, you know, without being offended, to be okay with people not agreeing with me, and me not crumbling into this blubbering mess on the floor because you don't like what I think or what I say.
We can demonstrate, I think, as Christians, that another way is possible When everyone else has forgotten how to be human with each other, I think we can do it. So here's my challenge. Next time you think you are right, ask yourself, what if I'm wrong about being right. Be the first to apologize, not because you are weak, but because you are wise enough to value the relationship over being right.
Start there and let's see how it goes.
## Conversation Street
Dan Orange: Wow. Amazing. [00:30:00] Isn't it? Like it's such, go talking about this in marriage. It's such a great thing to be, um, in a marriage and be with someone who's different to you. So there's gonna always be conflict because you're different. We're, we're all unique and it's great that the Bible has so much about, about that.
Yeah. I, I really like that talk. Um, Jen, before we sort of move on, is there any, anything that sort of jumped out to you first that you'd like to, to mention?
Jenny Mariner: Oh, I mean, it was great, wasn't it? And as we said at the beginning, there's so much that's relevant for marriage, but relevant for any Yeah.
Relationship. I think that one of the things that, um, actually jumped out to me was if you are in the second category and you're an avoider to, I would really encourage people to try and tune into what you're actually feeling. That's probably one of my kind of reflections on people that can be in that camp.
[00:31:00] So I know, I don't know who's watching and you thought, oh yeah, I like to be a winner. Oh yeah. I like to be avoided. But I think sometimes avoiders can actually not even be that self-aware.
Mm-hmm.
And if you are actually not self-aware of your own feelings and don't even realize that you're avoiding conflict, then that can have a whole heap of problems.
Yeah. I mean, like Matt said, it's like mold behind a wall. Yeah. And actually when the wall finally comes tumbling down, it's all your partner's faults and you don't realize that actually you let the mold grow. Um, so that would be one of my things. I was like, yeah, actually, you know, there some, we really need to take responsibility in any relationship, don't we?
To, to know what we are feeling.
Mm-hmm.
And to know what we are doing. Yeah.
Yeah. And to know
I'm avoiding this. Is that a good thing?
Yeah.
Or is it time for me to actually address it? Yeah. To be really self-aware. That's the thing that kind of jumped off to me. Yeah. I dunno what you think about that.
Dan Orange: No, I, I really like that.
And there's, there's a verse in, in Galatians and it says, make a careful exploration of who you are and the work that you've been given, and then sink yourself into that. Don't be [00:32:00] impressed with yourself. Don't compare yourself with others. Each of you must take responsibility for doing the creative best you can with your own life.
And I think sometimes we can not look at, we can bla blame other people and think, well, I, I am right. And not look at ourselves and go, what can I do to be the best that I can and can, what can I do to be the best husband? I know when we were talking before about avoiders, before the live stream, before about avoiders and winners, I was thinking when I read that I thought I often was an avoider because I wanted to be a winner and I didn't know how to do it, so I just wouldn't say anything.
But it, it did, it came to a point in our marriage and what Matt said, and I wrote it down, was if you avoid, you lose connection. You miss some of that closeness that you could be having in, in your marriage or in in your relationship because you just. Prepared, and it might be a bit painful, [00:33:00] that conflict.
It's not always, it's not easy, is it? It's gonna, it's gonna require you to be humble and require you to realize that you've both done, done wrong or said things wrong, but the outcome is, is worth it.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. It's, it's a really interesting one, isn't it? The avoider thing. 'cause I think, I think if we're honest, we go through seasons where Yeah.
Where one or the other. Yeah. I like what Heather put in the comments. She said, my husband and I both winners. So it leads to some furry arguments or furry conversations, which I think, yeah, I get that. I, I do get that. And I think sometimes, 'cause we're not perfect, right? Sometimes we avoid, sometimes we just go all out for the kill.
You're like, right. How many times have you rehearsed an argument in your head, right? You've just, your spouse has offended you and you're like right. I'm gonna write this down. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to ai, I'm gonna Google this. I'm gonna get everything that I need. And you've rehearsed the speech a thousand times in your head.
Um, and it just, it [00:34:00] never works out like you think it's gonna work out, right? It just, it just doesn't. Um, but I do think, the thing that I've noticed in myself and in other people is when we avoid the conversation, we do withdraw a little bit. Mm-hmm. Sometimes we withdraw a lot, some, but sometimes it's a little bit, and I think that's the, that's the thing that we can own.
Yeah. As avoiders, it's like, yes, your spouse may have offended you. Yes, they may have, but by not confronting that, that's the thing which you own. That's the logging your eye. That's the mm-hmm. Because actually what you are doing is you are withdrawing emotionally a little bit, mainly to protect yourself perhaps from that happening again.
But, um, yeah. Yeah.
Dan Orange: And it's, it's different in a marriage, isn't it, with the conflict and resolution we've just been much talked about is, um. Really, really useful for all aspects of life. But in a marriage, we've got that, we've got that extra, we've got that covenant relationship. So it's not something, you know, some [00:35:00] conversations, some differences between people, you might say, well, it's probably easier.
We just don't talk about that. Or probably easier with them, we, we don't meet because that, that causes too much rift. But in a marriage, you've got to spend time sorting that out.
Jenny Mariner: Yeah, absolutely. And I, and it is, I just think like that says you've gotta do everything you can to maintain that intimacy in a marriage, haven't you?
And I think particularly, like for a lot of people, the pattern is you get married and then at some point there's gonna be some kids come along and then life gets extremely busy. And actually you can end up realizing you're functioning alongside each other very well, but you're not connected. And it's such an important thing to maintain, isn't it?
Connection.
Dan Orange: Yeah. And it's just as a personal testimony, it's worth it, you know, from, I, I, I mentioned a few weeks ago about a whole cleaning the cooker incident. And, um, it all went a bit pear shaped and we had to get, um, the pastor of the church and we called them up and said this, yeah. That, that was just the, the tip of the [00:36:00] iceberg.
And it just, it just broke the camel's back. And, um, but ever since then we've, we've had to communicate better and we've had to learn, we've had to stop the avoiding and the intimacy is just, we've got such a better relationship now. And, and that was quite a long time up to that, that point that we thought everything and everything was, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't bad, but I was missing out.
And I think that's one thing about avoiding you just, it's just don't, don't miss out. Yeah. Yeah. No,
Matt Edmundson: it's a really interesting point. I, I, I'm just looking at what Ellis put here in the comments. I have an insistence on having to be right no matter what, uh, which ironically is itself wrong. Um, uh, thanks for saying that Ellis.
I think it's a really, it's an interesting point, isn't it? I do. How, how do you guys handle this? This need to be right, or maybe you [00:37:00] don't have to handle it. Maybe it's just me. I, I don't know. I just like, I hate being wrong. Right? Yeah. Hate it with a passion. Um, especially when I know I'm right. So how do you deal with that in yourself when you sense that and feel that?
Dan Orange: Well, one thing I have found is that so often between me and Lisa, and then also between, I used to have a guy work for me, um, and we'd get into arguments or just tension, and a lot of time we'd realize. We were both actually meaning the same thing. It's just our communication was bad and, and the way we were saying things was, um, was, was confusing the matter.
And, and think with me and Lisa, we've, I've had things that I've thought, oh, I'm, I'm right on this. And then realized after lots of discussion we're both pretty similar on, on the, on the outcome. And there was little nuances that we talked about and realized that oh yeah, she, [00:38:00] Lisa got a good point about that.
Or Dan's got a good point about that and that, that, not saying that's all the time, but a lot of the time that happened that, um, we weren't as far apart as we we thought we were. Yeah. Yeah.
Jenny Mariner: I think there's also something as well about still addressing it and figuring out like, is this something that we just need to agree to disagree on, but still do that in relationship?
Is this something we have to solve? And so, like you said, we're just gonna have to keep coming back to it. We're gonna have to go and get somebody else to help us. But again, but particularly in a marriage where you're trying to maintain that covenant, and if you don't deal with it one way or another, again, it's gonna draw, drive that wedge, isn't it?
Yeah.
So, you know, I think you can, sometimes, if it's something simple, it can become almost a joke. Like, there are things in our marriage that is a bit like, oh, you know, you think this and I think that. But we've talked it through and it genuinely is a joke. We've just agreed to disagree. And then other stuff, we've done it a couple of times, we've been like, we have to solve this.
Yeah.
So we have to go and get somebody else to help us. Yeah. Because [00:39:00] yeah, to, to not deal with it or to just keep butting heads. It, it, it's gonna have a bad impact on that intimacy in the end, isn't it?
Matt Edmundson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So what happened when, uh, when you did that? You went, who did you go see and, and, and what did they tell you?
Were they obviously divulging,
Jenny Mariner: um, sensitive
Matt Edmundson: information?
Jenny Mariner: Um, well we both went, it went to different wise couples in the church that we trusted. And to be honest, in both cases they just really were able to help us talk it through, not particularly quickly, but help us hear each other's point of view a little bit more.
Help bring other perspectives in. Um, I think in one of the scenarios, one of us, they were like, well, this isn't really about right or wrong. This is actually about how you're both feeling. And it was one of those scenarios where it's like, well, you might be right, but if you know the other partner doesn't want it that way, then you know, this isn't just about right or wrong.
So it was just, I think having other voices. 'cause [00:40:00] otherwise it is just can become well, who's gonna win or who's gonna back down. Yeah. And just having somebody else neither resolved in one conversation, but both were completely resolved in just being able to have somebody else help break that. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
Jenny Mariner: Tension.
Matt Edmundson: That's such a cool thing, isn't it? And to, and I think that is humility to actually go, we can't solve this ourself. Let's go get some help. Yeah. Um, and being okay with that. Yeah. I think is super, super important. Um, I, I've done it in business relationships, I've, you know, as well, so you can extend that principle out.
Um, and I, I think definitely if you're at a, if you're at an impasse, then go get some help. 'cause it's worth definitely, definitely resolving, uh, without a shadow of a doubt. So, um, let's talk about, so we've all talked about social media, right? Love it, hate it, basically hate it, if I'm honest with you. Um, but, you know, we use it as a tool to get the gospel out there, so, you [00:41:00] know, um, as, as its advantages in some respects.
Uh, but the, one of the things that I've noticed, right, is you, I dunno if you've seen this, you go to a restaurant. And there's the quintessential couple, you know, probably in their mid twenties, early thirties, they're both on their phones, uh, or you are around somebody's house. We do this, I mean, we've got quite a tall house, so if I'm downstairs, I'll call Zoe if she's upstairs, right?
'cause I can't be bothered to get outta the chair and just go upstairs. I just can't. Um, and it's fascinating to me how the rise of social media, the, the rise of the short form content has infiltrated our conversations. Do you know what I mean? And so you can't sit and have a conversation in a restaurant now without getting your phone out or checking things or you, how do you, how do you guys manage the phone things in your marriages?
Dan Orange: It's it for me, yeah, for us it's a, it's a conscious thing that we do have to, [00:42:00] on our phones a lot and have to consciously go. Okay. Um, I'm not good at not looking at that. And yeah, and also realizing my excuse was, well, especially in the daytime, I need to be on, I've run a business and it's just, it's just me.
I need to be on my phone and check in emails, all that kind of stuff. Um, it's not that urgent. Mm-hmm. You know, um, there's times when I can just go, well, I can put that down. I can wait and I can do it all together in, in one go. It doesn't have to be a constant thing. And, and going back to the social media, I think we've talking before about marriages that we've seen that, that are breaking down.
And often it is, it is this sort of Instagram, Facebook, it's a, we're so used to statements, oh, that's a good statement, but there's no conversation. And if you've got a life that has that, that that sort of statement lifestyle, you're missing out on the, [00:43:00] the conversation, the, that. What you said might be right or there might be something on there that that isn't right and you need to converse it and you just, the proverbs which you quote from, there's so many things about it says A wise, wise person seeks counsel.
You've got to, yeah. It's a no brainer. Yeah.
Jenny Mariner: We have quite a lot of rules in our house that we've kind of like put together to try and help us. So like we try and sit down for meals together where we can, and phones aren't allowed at the dinner table. Phones aren't allowed in the bedrooms. Like in terms of the first thing in the morning, last thing at night.
We try really hard, you know, going back to the thing about connection, we try to plan in times where we will connect even if it, we are not spending money, you know, it's like an evening, we'll have a meal at home together. Even if it's not a fancy one, do you know? I mean, the phone will go away and we're sat eating together and we will have a conversation or like, you know, [00:44:00] it's different for everybody, isn't it?
'cause I know sometimes actually that's quite awkward, just sat staring at each other and it's actually awkward. But like, is it, I don't know, doing a jigsaw, going for a walk. Do you like running together or cycling together or do you know what is gonna be the thing for you that you can put in regularly where you're then just both present?
Yeah,
because we find the tension builds up if we don't do that because just the, the run of the mill stuff isn't coming up and being chatted about. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, trying to have those intentional times where actually the phone is not allowed.
Dan Orange: And, but did, did you find that when you made that dis before you made that decision it was, um, or when you made that decision, it's something you had to learn?
Again, that's what we found with going, if we're going out for a meal or something to put, I'm so used to looking at it, I had to learn. To just look at my wife, just look at who I'm I'm with and not not have that.
Jenny Mariner: It's so, I mean, it's a whole nother thing, isn't it? But it's so addictive. Yeah. Isn't it? It's [00:45:00] constant.
And I, both, me and my husband, find that we go through seasons when we are more addicted and find more excuses. Anyone I seen that you find more reasons why you're on your phone. Yes. Yeah. And so yeah, for all kinds of different elements of health. Mm-hmm. Just, I think we would be terrible if we weren't trying proactively to be on top of it.
It would be awful.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. So it's a, I think with the phones it's, um, they can, I find that what I did was, I stopped checking the phone, but I got an Apple watch and of course all your notifications come up on your Apple watch. Yeah. And actually I've got to the stage now where. I can't read the Apple Watch anyway 'cause unless I've got my glasses in.
So I'm quite grateful for that. I just know I've got something's happened. I don't know why I, they'll call me if it's an emergency, but it's one of those, isn't it? The other thing I did was I got a second line so I can separate business now and only like a handful of people have that second number. And so if it's important, they'll get through to me.
Yeah. Right. And [00:46:00] that, that works crazy well. Mm-hmm. Um, but I also have a watch that's not an Apple watch, which I will wear when I go out with Sharon, uh, because I'm gonna get into trouble. Uh, if I don't, the other thing that we do, which is work really well, is if we go out as a family, we take a deck of cards.
Yes. We do that. We play cards like in restaurants and stuff. Yeah. That's always great fun. I'm always, yeah. Lots of Uno. Yeah. Yeah. I, I lose all the time. Zoe beats me all the time. Which you enjoy, don't you, Zoe? And it's just, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but we'll play rummy, um. We don't gamble. There's no money, there's no, I just wanna point that out.
Right. Um,
Dan Orange: on a, on a technical thing, you can, now, I should imagine Android as well. You can do summary notifications. So most of the things that pop up, you can just say, I don't want that to pop up now. Just summarize it in the morning, the evening, and I've done that made a massive difference. Yeah. I didn't, you know, McDonald's didn't tell me at like 10 o'clock, oh, this is happening.
Just [00:47:00] cut that out.
Jenny Mariner: Have we got time for me to ask another question?
Dan Orange: Yes. Yeah.
Jenny Mariner: Another one I, I think is coming up a lot in this day and age is like, maybe we're just not compatible.
Dan Orange: Mm-hmm.
Jenny Mariner: Maybe I just picked the wrong person. Maybe like, this is just too much. And the best thing for us to do is just go our separate ways.
What do we reckon guys? What does the Bible have to say?
Matt Edmundson: This is such an on-topic conversation. Uh, compatibility. There is a, well, let's just be clear. You are not compatible. Fundamentally, you are flawed human beings, right? And so there is gonna be an element of tension and disagreement. This is not the Cosbys, this is life is, you know, Adam and Eve didn't see the right eye to eye before the fall.
So we've, it's just one of those things where you kind of go, don't be surprised if marriage is not what you think it should be, because you have seen a happy married couple on social [00:48:00] media and you've seen all their reels, right? It just, life is not like that. It's complicated, it's messy. So first and foremost, you are not compatible, not 100%.
Um, that said, I'm of the opinion, um, that if you make a covenant promise, then that is a promise. Right? Now we've talked about, um. We were talking about earlier, won't we? The three, a's for divorce, like there are, there are biblical ways to end a relationship, a marriage, but assuming that they're not there, right?
So that there's no adultery, there's no abuse and there's no abandonment. It's just a couple who cannot get on, right? And we've had that scenario, you know, lots and lots of times, people, uh, couples have come to see us and fundamentally they cannot see a way to make it work. And we are seeing it more now.
If the husband has a different political viewpoint to the wife, this is becoming where [00:49:00] it's becoming more and more acute. So if he's right wing and she's left wing, or if she's right wing and he's left wing, um, especially with this, what we talked about earlier on this, this belief that actually it's no longer about just disagreeing with you, but I fundamentally have to hate you.
Um, I don't think that nullifies a covenant promise. Yeah, I think your covenant promise is above that. So far above that, that actually. Compatibility then becomes about you swallowing your pride, the pair of you, and doing something to rectify the problem. And yeah, I'm, I'm a, I'm more of a fan of that. Jen.
I dunno if that's the right answer or the wrong answer. I appreciate there's nuance to this, right? Um, and I appreciate for some couples, they literally fight all the time. For others they may hardly fight at all. Um, I, I do appreciate there's nuance to this and there's complications and levels of complications, but I'm of the opinion that once you're in, you're in.[00:50:00]
And so you've gotta find a way through. Yeah.
Dan Orange: Yeah. I think that was, yeah, really well put. I'm, I'm of that, that same opinion. And also it's great that we are different. It, it, it causes, you know, it's tricky, but like we've talked about today with the conflict and resolution, doing that in your marriage means then.
You can do it with, with your kids, you can do it at work because you've, you've been there and you realize, well, I'm different to Fred at work. I'm different to Sarah. Um, and, and that's, we we can still get along. Yes, you are, you're closer. But that's the wonderful thing about men and women. They're, they're different.
They have different roles and yeah, there are things that could really pull you apart, like political differences. And we, we were talking before that even, even a, let's say even a horrible politician, dictator might actually say something true. Doesn't [00:51:00] mean he's, he's nice, but there's there's truth in, in, in both sides of things.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jenny Mariner: I often think about, if you look in the New Testament about the way that it says. The Holy Spirit is shaping us. You get, you know, things like love and joy and peace and kindness and gentleness. Like in the morning service today, we were talking about wisdom and being peace, loving. And you know, listening again that quote from James listening and I think find me to people that are like that and I reckon they'll be able to make their marriage work.
So like for me, that's the personal challenge. You know, someone said to me about 12 months ago, they were talking about the fruits of the spirit. Which one of those things that I kind of learned in primary school. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, whatever. And you're like, actually no, you gotta do all your relationships with them.
Like, 'cause you know, even if you totally disagree on something, if you're disagreeing with kindness and [00:52:00] gentleness and patience, then actually you can probably navigate that disagreement. Yeah. And you know, you can't be responsible for how your partner's doing it, but you can be responsible for how you are doing it.
So I think it's such a crazy. Bar, and yet that is what God is growing us into. That is what the Holy Spirit is empowering us into. It just, it sometimes involves a bit of painful humility, doesn't it?
Dan Orange: Yeah. Another great proverb says, A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Better is a dinner of herbs where love is than a fatted calf with hatred.
And it is that that soft anger, soft, that soft word, it's, it's calming. Calming down and just
Matt Edmundson: learning how to deal with the disagreements and the conflict. Well, and I think that can be done. And I think compatibility is, I think differently to Sharon. I, and thank God that I do, because if we both thought the same, we would, we would have [00:53:00] twice the disasters really.
Do you know what I mean? And, and I think because she can think differently. And, and I can think differently. That's really useful. Her brain is wired very differently to mine. Have you ever heard the tale of two marriages? Have you come across this with Mark Gunga? Go and watch, um, that series on YouTube. I think he, there's one where he talks about a man's brain and a woman's brain appreciate these's a very, it's a very stereotype.
And so you don't need to write into me and say, well, my brain's not like that and I'm a fella. That's okay. I, this is a stereotype. It's just an illustration. Um, but he talked about how in the man's brain, the man's brain is basically a series of boxes, right? A series of draws. And, um, this is the work draw.
So that's where my brain is right now. I'm in the work draw and I, when I finish work, I close that drawer. And the biggest draw in the man's brain is the nothing draw. What are you thinking about? Nothing. That's where I'm at. Right there [00:54:00] in that drawer. Right? And to get me out of that, I've gotta close that drawer and I've gotta open the other drawer.
'cause that's, that's how my brain works one thing at a time, and I'm good. More than that, it's a problem. And then he says, and, but a woman's brain doesn't have drawers. He said, just imagine a ball of wire all jumbled up and tangled, where everything's connected to everything and it all functions at the speed of light.
And I'm like, that's Sharon's brain. That's my brain, that's Sharon's brain. And I'm like, I we're wired very differently. And God has designed it that way. Right? So compatibility is not about thinking the same. It's not even about reaching the same conclusion. For me, it's about celebrating the differences, understanding that God has put you together.
There are differences, go work it out, because together the answer will be much, much better. Um, and Peter talks about this, about inheriting the grace of life together. Um, [00:55:00] and prayers not being hindered because we're, we're both going our separate ways. And I, I think, yeah, with compatibility, I think it's just such an easy excuse, um, to say, we're just not compatible.
I'm like, whatever. It's lazy. Stop being lazy.
Jenny Mariner: Know I'd probably add something that's just come to my mind as well. Just encourage anybody out there. Me and Jack actually really have hardly anything in common. That's my husband by the way. He's like, we don't have very many things that we both like and you know, sometimes we are like, how did we end up married?
Like in terms of, you know, when we're trying to find those things to do together to both have fun or whatever, you know, like. I think it's funny, isn't it? I dunno if either of you feel like this about your marriages, but like you, like eyes actually really attracted to you because you're really different from me because you bring so many things to the table that are really different and that's what made you really exciting when we were like both 21.
And that's what sometimes makes you completely infuriating right now. But like, it's okay. I'm just, you know, we, [00:56:00] we, me and my husband have a great marriage, but it's a great marriage because we've worked through a whole ton of stuff.
Yeah.
Like over multiple times. So I guess, I mean, I wouldn't say we're like hugely, hugely incompatible, but I wouldn't say we were an obvious compatibility either.
And yet, you know, you can find a way through it. I dunno. It works,
Matt Edmundson: right? Yeah, it works. And that's great. And I think actually a humble heart, shared vision. We just wanna build God's kingdom and that, I think pretty much that's all as long as you're committed to that covenant before God. I think God will, will help you work through pretty much anything would be my, there's a good
Dan Orange: chance that your kids are gonna be different as well in different ways.
Having, having two, two chances to be, to, to understand and to communicate and to work is gonna be better. Yeah. Yeah. Although
Matt Edmundson: Zoe, you're a lot like me, right?
Sure. Uh, so yeah. Uh, look at the time. So we are getting to that place where we are reaching the end [00:57:00] of our live stream. Uh, we will be meeting on Google meets after this. Um, Zoe will put the link in the comments, so if you'd like to come join us afterwards, come say, how's it on Google meets, we'd love to meet you, um, and hang out for a few minutes whilst we pack all of this stuff down.
Um, but yeah, anything from you guys in closing? Sorry, I've just completely taken over the whole host in thing now. No,
Dan Orange: totally fine. I had one thing which you said at the, at the end. Be kind and that's not be kind. It's very different to be nice, be kind is a, it is mentioned a few times in the Bible. If you think about before you, you say something, do I really need to say that?
You know, is this gonna help? Yeah. Be kind.
Jenny Mariner: Absolutely. The only thing I'd add is be hopeful as well. Like I just really believe that God is for marriage and as Matt said, he's for Covenant, but he's not for us. Sucking it up and living 30 years in something that's [00:58:00] actually really difficult. Yeah. He's for helping us do this.
Well he's for helping us thriving and flourishing and having great marriages. Yes. Where actually we work through this stuff in a really healthy way. So be hopeful would be my thing.
Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: No, that's really good. That's very powerful. Um, isn't it? There's always hope. Yeah. I've never met anything that is utterly hopeless apart from a few men, but that's another story.
Um, uh, but yeah, no. Thank you so much for joining us this week. Next week we have, I think it's Will, talking about fatherhood, so carrying on our conversation about wholeness in relationships. We're gonna look at fatherhood next week, the week after that, I think we're looking at motherhood. And then I think the week after that, we might be looking at grandparents.
Oh. I'm not entirely sure. So please, you know, just be, be kind to me if, if I get it wrong. We're definitely looking at those at some point though. Uh, but I think it's fatherhood next week. Um, so do make sure you come [00:59:00] join us for that'd be great to have you in the conversation. Um, you don't have to be a dad, by the way, to be in that conversation because we've all got dads.
We, we may or may not be dads spiritual fathers. There's a whole bunch of stuff we're gonna get into, so do come join us for that. It'd be great. Um, but yeah, thank you so much for joining us. Hopefully see you guys in Google meets. Um, have a phenomenal week wherever you're in the world. We'll see you next time.
Bye for [01:00:00] now.