26: Building a Legacy of Hope

What's the Story
Written By Matt Edmundson
 

Today’s Guest: Jessica Weeks

Jessica Weeks is the founder of Hannah's House, which is a charity based in the West Midlands that provides refuge for families who have experienced any kind of baby loss.

Jess and her husband Andrew set up the charity after the death of their baby daughter Emelia in 2017, which happened when their eldest daughter Hannah was only two. Since then, they have also experienced further miscarriages, as well as adding two beautiful boys to their family.

Jessica’s story is one of triumph over grief, and has featured widely in local and national media. Her charity work for Hannah's House has also received awards recognition by professional organisations including Ladies First Professional Development and Woman Who.

Here’s a summary of this week’s story:

  • Jessica grew up in a Christian family and made a commitment to live for Jesus at a young age but later backslid and made poor life decisions. After meeting a lady from a local church during a cigarette break, Jessica went to church and met the Holy Spirit, leading her to turn her life around, start Bible college, marry her partner and find her faith again.

  • Jessica experienced a miscarriage soon after her honeymoon but found comfort in God's love during her grief. It took several months to get pregnant again and she struggled with feelings of anxiety and loss of control. She eventually became pregnant and felt God's peace throughout the pregnancy, giving birth to a daughter who had complications during delivery but is now a blessing in her life.

  • She and her husband decided to try for another baby and were surprised to become pregnant only two weeks later. On her second scan, she received the news that her baby had severe fetal abnormalities and the doctor advised her to terminate the pregnancy, but she found strength through faith and decided to continue with the pregnancy.

  • Jessica found God's tangible presence during her pregnancy despite the diagnosis that her baby would not survive. She experienced physical and tangible changes in her baby, which she believes were miracles. Despite losing her baby within an hour after birth, Jessica felt God's peace throughout the journey.

  • She shares her experience of losing her baby, Emelia, and the founding of her charity Hannah's House. She also talks about how having another baby brought up the past grief.

  • Jessica initially thought she had dealt with the grief, but the Holy Spirit revealed to her that she had not. With the help of a friend and counseling, she was able to begin her own healing journey and eventually become a counselor and established her charity to help others like her who had gone through the grief and loss of a baby.

  • She talks about the miracle of delivering her second son in her 40th year and how he was a tiny baby only about 20cm and just under a kilogram in weight but was born healthy and perfectly formed despite the odds.

  • The life lesson for Jessica through all her grief and loss has been that God always answers prayers, but it doesn't always come as we would want or expect. And even though there is hurt and pain this side of heaven, we can choose to heal and walk in God's peace.

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  • Matt: Hello and welcome to What's the Story? We're an inquisitive bunch of hosts from the What's the Story Team on a Mission to uncover stories about faith and courage from everyday people. And to help us do just that, we get the privilege to chat with amazing guests and delve into their faith journey, the hurdles they've overcome and the life lessons they have learned along the way.

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    What the story is brought to you by Crowd Church. We understand that stepping into a traditional church might not be everybody's cup of tea, and that's where Crowd Church steps in providing a digital sanctuary, a safe space to explore the Christian faith where you can engage in meaningful conversations.

    Rather than just simply spectating. So whether you are new to the Christian faith or are in search of a new church family, we invite you to visit us at www.crowd.church. And if you've got any questions, just drop us an email at hello@crowd.church. We're here to help. And would genuinely love to connect with you.

    And now without further ado, let's meet your host and our very special guest for today.

    Anna: I'm Anna Kettle, and today I am joined by the lovely Jessica Weeks, who's a good friend of mine and our guest interview for today. Jessica Weeks is the founder of Hannah's House, which is a charity based in the West Midlands that provides refuge for families who have experienced any kind of baby loss.

    Jess and her husband Andrew, set up the charity after the death of their own baby daughter Emelia in 2017, which happened when their eldest daughter, Hannah, was only two. Since then, they've also experienced further miscarriages and have added two further boys to their family. Jessica's story is an amazing one of

    uh, triumph over grief, and it's been featured in, uh, national magazines and local media alike. And her charity work for Hannah's House has also received awards recognition by professional organizations such as Ladies First Professional Development and Women Who, um, those of you who already know my story, know that.

    Uh, pregnancy loss is also subject that's very close to my own heart too, um, as a fellow baby loss mum. So I'm really excited to have Jessica on the, the show today and to be talking to her. And I hope you're gonna be inspired by this conversation too. So, Jess, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being on today.

    Jessica: Hi Anna. Thank you very much for having me.

    Anna: Oh, it's a pleasure. I'm excited about this conversation. So I guess probably, um, we should start from the beginning of your story, uh, which is sort of the beginning of your sort of journey of faith and how you became a Christian, or, or when did it become real to you? And sort of start there and then work on through.

    So tell us a little bit about your journey into faith then. How did, how did that outwork for you?

    Jessica: Well, I grew up in a Christian household and a Christian family, extended family. My grandparents, um, Jesus and the church has always been the forefront in our family. Um, I remember being quite young when I made a commitment to live for Jesus. And, uh, yeah, life was good. And then I came to Coventry in 2000 to come to university, and it was the start of a period of making some really poor life decisions.

    Um, like a completely backslid, uh, had various inappropriate relationships. Um, I actually got to a point where I thought I just can't go on like this anymore. And I just had a couple of years where I just focused on friends and family. Um, and it was going, you know, really well in, in that time. And I became friends with a colleague.

    Um, we were friends for quite a few years before he asked me on a first date and we were, um, things moved pretty quickly after. Afterwards, we'd bought a house after nine months and we were living together and we were also drinking quite a lot and had a real party lifestyle. We earned quite a lot of money.

    We're both engineers. Um, And then I was doing consultation for a project and I saw, uh, some people from a local church doing outreach and I was quite drawn to them. And, uh, a lady just came to talk to me when I was on a break. I was actually having a cigarette. I was on cigarette break. Um, she was just chatting and she invited me to church the next day.

    Um, and my husband was actually away, or he wasn't my husband, then he was away with the car. And, uh, Kind of just laid in bed in the morning by myself and I kind of just got up and ran to church. Um, and I met with the Holy Spirit there and. Kind of the rest date. So that was the February, just before my 30th birthday.

    So I was 29 and um, I didn't really look back after that. And things very quickly started to fall in place. And Andy and I got married. Um, uh, I started Bible college and you know, the Holy Spirit really unpicked and made right some of the. Bad decisions that I had made. And we were married in 2012 and um, went on our honeymoon 2013 to America where my brother-in-law lives as he met his beautiful wife there.

    So we traveled to the east coast of America for about three weeks. Um, and on our way home, I didn't know then, but I had the start of my first miscarriage. Um, and so that was really the first time the a) that I realized that it wasn't God's best to lose a child. That's not what he wanted. Um, but also in the grief and in the loss.

    He's very real and he's a real, real comfort. Um, and I kind of understood what that extra, that expression, extravagant love means. I really felt that peace. You know, and amongst all of our pain, we hadn't really kind of thought about it. We kind of thought, you know, maybe we'll stop using contraception, was just kind of see what happens.

    Um, and so it, it came and went really quicker than I had time to process all of it. And then it seemed to take an age to get pregnant again. I mean, I really understand that now. It wasn't a long time, but you know, for those. Seven, eight months I think it was. Um, I just, I got started to get a little bit obsessed that every month, you know, as it's not happening, why me?

    You know? Um, what are all of those questions that can come to your mind?

    Anna: Yeah. And like you say, even though it doesn't seem like a super long time looking back, when you're in the middle of it, you, I dunno, I think often we think, oh, I wanna get pregnant now, so come off contraception and just happen right away.

    Jessica: Yeah, absolutely.

    Anna: And you are like, but that's. You know, it's not following my plan like it is. It's alarming, isn't it? And I'm not making light like, you know, seven or eight months is quite a long time to wait and, it can be quite anxious. But yeah, I think it really, it can really challenge your sort of sense of control. Can't it?

    Jessica: Yeah, absolutely.

    Anna: scales in life?

    Jessica: and I think every, every month I would say, all right, Lord, I'm, I'm handing it over to you and I am being in that. Place of peace, but actually still, you know, thinking about it and checking all the signs and checking my cycle and the hormone, like looking for indications. Um, but Andy was actually working away in Bristol, so he would go on a Monday morning, come back Friday night.

    Um, and so I was really excited for his opportunity. Also a little bit irritated with him that he was hampering our efforts. Um, and actually. When I was actually pregnant, I just didn't realize, and I remember one morning he was going, um, going to Bristol. I was just, I, I actually physically held onto the lapel of his blazer and I was like, don't go.

    He was like, Jess, what are you doing? I've got to go. It's six o'clock in the morning. The neighbors are starting to look at you wailing like a banshee on the front door. And then I was kind of getting ready for work and I was just like, oh just can't. So actually, I called my boss. I said, I don't feel that I'm just not coming in today.

    He said, okay. And I was just, I just didn't feel right and I just couldn't put my finger on it. So I was like, right. And I think I spoke to my mom, she was like, go get a doctor's appointment, get some blood tests. And I went, um, and I saw the doctor and um, and she said, you know, all the normal questions.

    When was your last period? And I was like, huh. I don't have a clue. So I checked, and it was actually about eight weeks ago, and I was like, oh, about eight weeks ago. She's like, okay, well we'll do a blood test, uh, we'll do a pregnancy test. And I was like, oh. Um, and then she came, she did it, and then she went out the room and then she came back again.

    And then she called someone. I was like, a bit weird. And then she said, um, so I'm really happy, I think, to tell you that you're pregnant since. Really, but she, cause I kind of, my cycle had been a bit all over the place. She said, I'm just gonna send you to the hospital just so we can determine exactly where you are.

    And I said, okay. Anyway, so I kind of just, um, cuz Andy had the car, so I got on the bus to the hospital sitting there thinking is, is this actually real? And it was, and I saw a tiny little heartbeat. Uh, I was about nine weeks pregnant, and so, uh, like it was the longest three days to wait for Andy to come home. Um, and so that was really, um, yeah, that was really, I really felt God's peace through that pregnancy.

    Um, and I had been studying, um, about Hannah and how she had been praying for, A baby. For Samuel, and you know how she promised to sow him. Um, and someone reminded me of that actually last Baby Loss Awareness week about, you know, the name Hannah, and you know, what she did, and, you know, sowing, uh, her child and, you know, making that commitment to the Lord.

    Um, and, um, I'll, I'll, I'll come back to that a little bit later. But, um, uh, it's really prevalent in the story now of our lives and our journey to parenting. Um, And so I, I knew I was fairly sure in my spirit that she was a girl and I knew that she would be called Hannah. Um, But I just awaited. So I had a few little pink clothes stashed away cause we didn't find out.

    Um, and she was a girl and she flew into the world. Um, had a few complications during the delivery. Um, and that's how she lives her life. She is a force to be reckoned with. She is, um, she's eight, eight and a half now. Um, she's an absolute blessing and so she's my Hannah Lilly and yeah, she's beautiful. Um, and so we had, uh, I had a wonderful maternity with her.

    Her first year was just beautiful. I went back to work part-time. We were enjoying life. Um, and we decided we would like to try for another baby. Um, and because of how long it took us to get pregnant with Hannah, I thought, okay, you know, I steadied myself for a long journey and, uh, two weeks later I was pregnant.

    Um, I was like, oh. And

    Anna: All the best laid plans

    Jessica: yeah, absolutely. And I was, um, and I kind of, again, I felt a little bit, hmm, something not quite right, but we were doing some building work and I said to, and I said, oh, I don't feel quite right. And I was up a ladder smashing down a, a brick wall and Andy said, do you think maybe you should just check and, you know, make sure that everything's all right before you carry on doing all of this physical work?

    I went, all right, just popped to ASDA. And I was just like, Hannah was playing downstairs and all of the dust, and I did it a pregnancy test and it was positive and I was like, oh, okay. So I came down. Literally, I just sat around in shock for eight, just hours. We didn't kind of. Yeah, it didn't really sink in.

    And then we just, you know, and then I kind of suddenly start thinking, we've just literally torn our house apart. We're gonna have a baby. Is this gonna be finished? You know, all of those things that you, you know, mine starts running away with. And we'd had, so we went away with some friends and we told them, and we were having a great time and, um, we had our, our 12 week scan and the sonographer said, oh, I can't quite see what I want to. Come back in a couple of weeks.

    Um, and we. And now actually Andy was working away again and so couldn't be at the second scan, but I had my pastor with me, um, and we were just so busy talking. I didn't really notice that the sonographer had gone so quiet and she said, um, I'm just gonna take you into another room. I just wanted to just check some things through.

    Um, and so when I was pregnant with Hannah, my father-in-law died and I have come to learn now when the NHS take you to another room and give you a cup of tea, it's not good news.

    Anna: It's never good news.

    Jessica: No. Um, and so she said that she didn't see what she would wanted to see in the development time for baby, um, that the substantial part of her skull was missing.

    Um, And that she was gonna refer us to fetal medicine. And I said, okay. And I actually didn't really feel worried. I don't think I really kind of took on the enormity and my pastor was really peaceful. And we said, okay. Um, waiting for Andy to come back the next day. Um, and actually it took, took like a nearly a week for that referral to come through.

    So you're kind of told that something wasn't right and then left in limbo. Um, it's something that I'm campaigning for a little bit at the moment, so for some policy changes and how that pathway care, um, takes place. But, um, so we met a consultant when our hospital appointment came through and Andy did and she did an extensive, um, Scan of baby, of Emelia, and, and she confirmed that she had two neural tube defects, which is anencephaly, so that's the, the, the skull doesn't form properly.

    Um, and she actually had two breaks in her spine, um, spina bifida. And they said, you know, that is, she is incompatible with life and the best cause of treatment would be a termination. Um, And in that instant, the only thing that I did knew, I mean, there was like my mind was racing in my a hundred miles a minute that, um,

    I couldn't have a termination and he was very worried about me. We were very kind of at different places, but, um, yeah, that I knew that I couldn't, so we, we left. Left the hospital, we went straight to church. Um, my pastor, she was making a cup of tea, and I just burst into tears. I hadn't said anything, or kind of reacted until, um, and so she went to get her husband, she went to get her, my, my pastor, and, you know, we all sat and cried and he said, uh, you know, he's just the most amazing spiritual father. He said at one point, at some point, you're gonna have to decide what you're believing for and decide what you want to do.

    Anna: Hmm.

    Jessica: What does he mean? They've just told me my baby's gonna die. Um, and yeah, actually, you know, he said, you've got to believe in that Rhema word of, you know, and, and seek the Lord. And I said, okay. So the next day it came and I was sat, you know, sobbing in the spare bedroom. Um, and, and the verse that, um, God gave me was, um, in Psalms 118 where it says, I will not die, but live and proclaim the word of the Lord.

    Um, And so that is, so that's the verse that I stood on really for the whole of the pregnancy. And we had, well, Anna, we had so many kind of ups and downs, and that's, you know, I mean that's kind of maybe the first nine years of, you know, walking again with the Lord. Um, but yeah, he's just, he's just been so absolutely wonderful. So,

    Anna: but I mean, that's yeah, as you say, like real ups and downs and you know, um, obviously like miscarriage is, you know, one thing and, but then, you know, that kind of news is like, you know, such a life changing situation, isn't it? And I mean,

    Jessica: Yeah.

    Anna: Yeah to me, I just think. I dunno. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's just, I, I'm, I guess I'm interested in like kind of how you find God in the middle of that because you know, you like talk about that Rhema word, but you know, obviously it must have been a really anxious time and a really stressful time for you as well, and you're like trying to stand on God's word and trust him with

    the outcome, but also like, how does that look in practice, right? Because you've got nine months of pregnancy, or not quite nine months by the time you found out, but a large chunk of pregnancy like months, months of your life where you're just thinking what's gonna happen? And, you know, how does, how does that impact you and, you know, how does it change the shape of your faith? Or like, how did you, how did you find God in the middle of that?

    Jessica: Honestly, I, I don't think I've ever felt so close to him. He was never, you know, like I felt like he was real, a real tangible presence during that pregnancy. And out of the, the four babies that I've given birth to, she was the best. It was the best pregnancy. Like I thought from one point of being really unwell before the diagnosis.

    Um, I was taken home, sent home from work. Um, I didn't have any symptoms. I was really, well, I was fit and well, like. We were walking the hills when I was eight months pregnant. You know, out in the Yorkshire, dale was having a great time. Um, I will say that we didn't tell a lot of people about the diagnosis. Um, we had some insensitive words, I think from people who did know, didn't understand it, um, changed a lot of relationships. Um, our circle's definitely a lot smaller now. We spent a lot of time just being, um, with our families, like our mums. I just dunno what we, what we'd have done without them. Um, but she, you know, they, they said a lot of things and there, you know, there were, um, whether you believe in

    tangible miracles still or not? A lot of things took place during her pregnancy. So there were two spines, two breaks in her spine, but by the time that she was born, there was none. Um, her, the substantial part of her intestines were outside of the stomach wall, but when she was born it was perfect. So, you know, there was so,

    Anna: Yeah. Some really physical, tangible changes

    Jessica: absolutely. Um, Which the doctors kind of acknowledged but glossed over that, you know, and I wasn't in a fit state to, you know, to challenge them over it. But I believe that God watched over his word to perform it cuz he said that she would live it. And you know, she did die, but she is in heaven and she is perfect.

    Um,

    Anna: But God was like, kind of, God was faithful to that promise and that she did live. And you were told she would

    Jessica: Yeah, absolutely.

    Anna: alive, weren't you? So can you tell, can you tell us a bit more about sort of like how the, the next part of the story goes?

    Jessica: Yeah, so we, we continued with, with the pregnancy and it was great and we kept kind of going, I think I went in every month or so for scans and, you know, every time something changed a little bit. But she, she must be the most photographed baby. But we had so many pictures of her. Um, and I built a really good.

    Relationship with my consultant with my obstetrician. She was amazing. She still is, you know, was still in contact with her. Um, and she delivered my eldest son as well. So, um, we've been on a journey with her and she came to appreciate our decisions. I know she didn't agree with them, first of all. Um, But she, she did live and she made all your normal ba, you know, baby snuffling noises and, um, she didn't cry.

    But I mean, I, like, she was all still kind of all snuggled up and like, I was holding her still cause I had like, had a C-section and then I gave her to Andy and she opened her eyes. I was like, excuse me, I'm the one who's gone through all of this. You know, I'm actually still open on the operation theater.

    But she opened her eyes to look at her daddy, and that was exactly what he needed. No, he, he needed that because obviously I carried her and I felt her every move and her every, um, You know, turn and kick and she was very strong. I mean, I've, I'm, I'm five foot eight. And probably got like a 33 inside leg.

    I've got really long legs and all of our children have got really long legs and I, you know, I thought the boys were actually gonna break my ribs when I was pregnant with them. But she had the longest legs. And, you know, considering that she had the substantial part of her skull missing, she was a little chunky thing.

    She had some big old little cheeks like these, and she had my big brown eyes and she had her daddy's dimples that all, you know, all four of them had, um, And so we had a really beautiful moment after her birth. And so she lived for 57 minutes. Um, she got to have kisses and cuddles with both her grandmas, um, and then she went home to heaven into the arms of Jesus.

    Um, and so we had a, a cuddle cop, so she was actually like we could physically keep her with us for a little while. Um, I stayed in hospital for a couple of days and. Um, I don't necessarily remember a lot straight after she died. Um, they gave, so I had, you have quite a lot of things, so they gave me things to, uh, stop my milk coming in.

    I think I had quite a lot of liquid morphine to stop the pain, but I think also it was a little bit like, uh, a sedation. Um, and so Andy went home in the evening after she'd died and my pastor came in and sat with me and we just chatted. Um, And I still felt really loved. And then the next. The next morning she had gone to the Chapel of Rest and, and like it was a change of shift and Andy wasn't here yet and I tried to call, um, and they'd said, you know, if you wanna go home today, you have to have a wee, you know, take the catheter out.

    I was okay. So I was just, you know, sitting on the toilet and I couldn't have a wee and I couldn't speak to anyone and it was just, I was like, Lord, I just feel so alone. And then I just heard this, uh, Lovely Irish lilt saying, Hey Jess, it's just me. And it was my community midwife who'd come in to see me before her shift, before she went out.

    And I just, I was sitting on the toilet crying and oh Maddie I can't wee. And she's like, it's alright. Uh, and she stayed with me, uh, until the midwives kind of came on till they, uh, did. And so, you know, I've, God really put people in place to support me throughout it all. Um,

    Anna: In just in really little practical ways.

    Jessica: Yeah, absolutely. Um, and you know, the peace of God never left me.

    So that same midwife, she came to see me like long after I was discharged and she said, every time I come here you are laughing and eating. I said, but I'm so hungry. And I've never felt so hungry, but I had a real supernatural quick healing. Um, yeah, I was up and about looking after Hannah. I mean, there were really, there were days when all I could do was kind of open the curtains and brush my hair, but there's also days when, you know, I laughed and. I just, uh, on the day that I came home, I was determined to get home in time to put Hannah to bed, and my pastor was here dropping off some food. So my mom was here with Hannah, so I had my spiritual mom and my actual mom, and I really feel, again, that was like another, another little kiss from God.

    Just like, you know, to be welcomed home by your mums to, it was real. It is something that I recall quite a lot to think about. And, um, so yeah, there were real. Lovely moments. And I think because she had, um, such unusual symptoms, she, her postmortem took quite a long time. She had to go to Birmingham. Um, and so we waited like nearly a month for her funeral.

    Um, and I do remember on the run up to that, that. I kind of had enough as well. I just like enough now I wanna get off. I'm a, I'm a civil engineer. I'm practical. You know, you go through the process, but you know, we know that grief is not logical. Absolute not, logical.

    Anna: it's not a linear process at all, is

    Jessica: It's, it's completely emotional.

    Um, And so in fact, on the night before her funeral, I said to my sister, I was going through this process and like, you know, well these are things, Hannah's things for the nursery and the dog's food. She was like, where are you going? And I was like, no, I'm not doing it now. I'm just going. She was like, okay, you can't actually leave.

    Um, but she was just, um, yeah, she was great. Just the things she could say, the things that sisters could say, um, like, I know it's so good today, isn't it? Okay, thanks. Like I do remember her, like sitting, like brushing my hair and like doing my makeup and just those little things that, um, I couldn't necessarily muster up to do for myself.

    Um, but I, I was really bothered by the fact that I was never gonna put get, to, put Emelia to bed. Um, I sing to Hannah. I love to sing. I was part of the worship team at church and I sing Hannah, I sing the boys to sleep most nights. Um, so I was just, I went to the funeral, um, and I sat with her in her coffin and I sang to her and I felt like I kind of got a download and I didn't know it then, but it was kind of the founding objectives for Hannah's house.

    Um, And the verse that, uh, so I, I spoke at her funeral. I was determined that she was my baby and I was gonna talk about her. Um, but the verse that, that God gave me was in Lamentations. Uh, it says this, I recall to my mind, therefore, I have hope through the Lord's mercies, we are not consumed because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning.

    Great. Is your faithfulness. The Lord is my portion, says my soul. Therefore, I hope in him. The Lord is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him. It is good that one should hope and wait quietly for the salvation of the Lord. Um, and and that's, that's what I, I shared and there's one translation that says, um, and yet I still dare to hope. And as my, yeah, and as my, um, Healing journey kind of unfolded it, that that dare to hope is now the tagline, um, of Hannah's house because, um, then, then we kind of, we got got on with getting on with life and that healing thing and I went, I went and she died in the January and I went back to work in the August.

    And um, my friend was my line manager at the time. She's not anymore, but I mean, I think I was fairly ineffective for the first few months. Uh, but she was just an absolute blessing. She got around everybody and managed to, you know, tell everybody. And I had a series of, of, of counseling through work at like 12 weeks and I felt like we were doing all right and then towards the end of the year we decided that we were going to try again.

    Um, so around the October time, um, and we had another early miscarriage, um, and I felt very broken at heart. And I was like, okay. Uh, I felt really sad and you know, we kind of, we dealt with it and then Christmas came and, um, we thought we'd try again, and then I had another miscarriage and I just actually refused to acknowledge it.

    Just in fact, my boss, we were making coffee one day between meetings and she said, you alright? I said, oh, I had a miscarriage last week and just carried on making the tea. And she was like,

    Anna: And do you, do you feel like that was because almost you've been through so much loss and grief already that was like, oh, it's just more of the same? Or was it just like you got to a point where you were like, I just can't take anymore?

    Jessica: I just, I think that was it. I was like, I just can't, I can't deal with it. Like I know, I know that God is a good God, and I know that he has done so much for us already and living out that gospel and believing it, even though it is not what you're seeing now and waiting for that manifestation is not an easy thing.

    It's not an easy thing to walk out when you are in the midst of that trial. And I feel like, like now, now I've kind of reflected, maybe only in the last 12 to 18 months on those two little babies that I lost between, um, Emelia and the, and the boys. Um, cause I just think, I just didn't wanna deal with it.

    But it was actually. After Dan was born, after my eldest son was born, um, and he was. It was lovely. It was a planned C-section. We went in, I was a bit early had we had team toast, we'd joking with all the nurses. Cause by that time I'd been in the hospital a lot and we knew them all. And you know, people were popping in, oh, you're back again.

    And it was nice. And he again, and Hannah was a bit freaked out when she came in. So my mom came and we sat, they moved me to a side room. We had dinner, had lovely food. It was just, you know, it was a really wonderful experience. Um, I for sure had postnatal depression after him. I didn't, couldn't really like, no, that it, like, it was just something that was so we took him on his first holiday and you know, that realization that never got to take Emelia on his first holiday and we bought his first baby shoes cuz they are the cutest things ever.

    Um, and she never got to have baby shoes.

    Anna: And I guess it does bring up all of those kind of, kind of baby firsts and different scenarios that kind of bring back up grief again. Cuz it's like, as you say, like griefs not linear.

    Jessica: no, not at

    Anna: dealt with something and you, you're sort of. Healed, but then certainly that was my experience as well. It's like not linear, and then something comes up and you're like, oh, it's this again. I thought I dealt with this, but here it's

    Jessica: Yeah, absolutely.

    Anna: and I'm not surprised that having another child after that kind of loss brings up stuff again.

    Jessica: And so I, I felt like then, you know, I had been blessed. God had given us this beautiful little boy and he, um, he's, he is called Daniel Isaac cuz you know Isaac, it means a man of excellence and, but Isaac means to laugh cuz I think at that point everybody needed. Everybody needed a, a laugh. And you know, my mom had been, my mom had been through cancer.

    My father-in-law had died, and then my granny had died and then Andy's granny had died. And I.

    Anna: It's a lot of

    Jessica: we'd had two miscarriages. Um,

    Anna: Yeah.

    Jessica: and then we had this beautiful boy, but whilst I was pregnant with him Andy turned 40 and he decided that he was gonna retrain as an electrician and start our own company. Um, and it was the best thing that we, we ever did. And my mom said, I've got my son-in-law back cuz he was, you know, gone for 12 hours a day.

    Um, and so all of these things kind of happened at. Like we, we were going at a pace of life and had this toddler, I was back at work. I loved my job, but it was still quite, you know, demanding. Even though I was do, I was doing, I was doing four days work in three and a half days. So I had those days off with hand and then, um, went back to work with Daniel and then the world stopped, COVID hit, and then had some time to think.

    And I said, oh no. Thank you Lord. I, I've dealt with that. It's done. Practically in little box. And you know, the Holy Spirit is very gentle

    Anna: Yeah.

    Jessica: you know, you don't listen. And then, you know, for me, he always brings people alongside to confirm what he's, he's saying to me. And so my friend who runs a charity, um, a bereavement charity, she lost a little boy, um, at 12 months in the car accident.

    Um, She said, you know, she rang me one evening and said, uh, well actually, first of all, you know, we were having one of those long lingering dinners because there was nothing else to do and just chatting. And so Dan was probably about 19 months. Um, and Hannah said, mommy, I really wish that Elijah was Elijah.

    I wish that Emelia was here so I could play with her. And I said, oh, me too. And I excused myself in the table and collapsed in a heap on my bedroom floor. Uh, and the pain was just, you know, when people say, I've got a broken heart, I know what that feels like. And, uh, that, that feeling was of after she just died, they've rearing its ugly head again.

    I was like, no. And um, at that point, Charlotte um, rang and she said, oh, you know, I've got 12 hours pro bono, um, counseling. And when I was at your point in my grief Journey. I could really have done that with this help. And I thought you'd find it really helpful. And I was so rude to her and I, I told her to go away, no uncertain terms.

    Um, at which point Andy popped his head around the corner and said, uh, who you on the phone to? And uh, I told him what she said and he said, you think maybe you should ring her back? No, I don't think nothing wrong with me. I went to bed and didn't sleep and tossed and turned and, and I rang her in the morning and I said, probably do need that help?

    And that was really was the beginning of me being in a position of my own healing to then start to be able to help everybody else. Um, and so with that 12 weeks and three months, um, it happened. And so it happened that I was at home. Um, and so we were, you know, I was able to, you know, do my job. Um, Toddler ran around my feet and then do my counseling once a week.

    Um, I really began to unpick all of that painful hurt that I had locked away in a little box. Um, and really, and, and my counselor at the end of our session said, you'd make a really good counselor. I said, I don't think I would. And I think within that week, three people said it to me and I said, all right. I hear Lord,

    Anna: and maybe there's a

    Jessica: maybe there's something about it. And so, but in the background, I'd really been trying to do a lot of things with Hannah's house, like to get the charitable status. I've been doing a lot of work at the hospital, um, like setting up different groups and it was just like walking through treacle.

    It just wasn't working. But I really believe it's because I was in no fit state to help anybody. Um, and then I went, uh, went back to Bible college to start my level two. Um, and uh, it literally happened, it was a Saturday morning and cause we still weren't allowed to be in co in church, I was in this very room, doing my first online lecture and email pinged in from the charities commission, you have your charitable status.

    I was like, my goodness. So that was the February, so that was the February, just the month before my 39th birthday. And you know, that was amazing. So we'd done all of this work and uh, got this charitable status so you can, when you're setting up a charity due, you know, quite a lot, but it just, to me, it didn't feel right when you're working with people's

    hearts that you should have that kind of level of standing to show you've go, you've got merit, you've been through those checks. And so we started to do, I started to do that and I'd already kind of spoken informally to a couple of people about being trustees. Um, and so that was, um, February 21. Um, we started to have our first few meetings and then I made a decision then that after, so Dan was, um, three.

    He wasn't it? Yeah. He was gonna be three that year that

    Anna: Hmm.

    Jessica: we tried and tried for that, you know, that next baby I knew I always wanted three babies, um, to, you know, have with me on earth. And I was like, well, you know, maybe if that's, you know, I've got one in heaven and two with me here, then I am still so blessed.

    And I said to, and I said, well, no. I said, you know, let's just call it. I said, I'm 40 next month. I'm 40 in a few weeks, let's just leave it. He said, are you sure? I said, yeah, let's just, you know, We'll call it quits. So we'd be happy with our lot.

    Anna: Yeah.

    Jessica: Little did I know that I was probably already pregnant. Um, and so I was at Bible college on the Saturday.

    It was my actual birthday and they, they kind of got me a cake at break and I was in absolute floods of tears and I was like, oh, nice. You know, very emotional. And then I got home and I had the surprise party and we'd had some champagne, which had cocktails. The next day I felt so unwell and I was like, This is really weird.

    And Andy said, well, it's 40. If you drink champagne at 40, that's what happens. I said, okay. And then like a few weeks later, I still felt really rough, but we just like, we were just like, life was at a pace with establishing a business. Got

    Anna: don't stop to think about it. Right.

    Jessica: think about it. And then I just suddenly thought, um, I was out with my friend so she did me afternoon tea cuz we still couldn't meet anywhere.

    Um, and she, um, Had a, like, she had a perfume on. I was like, and I was like, that is disgusting, that smell. And I was like, and I was driving home. So, cuz she lives in Chesterfield. So we'd met halfway and I was like, oh, that's interesting. Why would something normal make me feel so sick? I was like, Jessica, you've been here before.

    I was like, no, I'm 40.

    Anna: And then it starts to dawn on you.

    Jessica: So I stopped. I got a pregnancy test, uh, and I came home. Test and um, I was pregnant. I was 40 and I was pregnant, and I think that's what I said for nine months. But I'm 40 and I'm pregnant. Um, but it was not a straightforward pregnancy. Um, so the 20 week scan, they saw that baby was very, very small, uh, between the first and second percentile.

    Um, and my other babies had been quite big. Even Emelia was. You know, quite big. Um, Dan was like on the 90th percentile, so, um, they're like, okay. So they were doing a lot of monitoring and I was getting more and more anxious and I was really fighting to stay peaceful. Um, and then it kind of, it came to an head, um, that they were monitoring the flow on my umbilical cord, but they, it started, they could see that it was, um, an intermittent beat.

    So like out of eight, 10 beats, he was only getting like, Like eight of them. So like his oxygen levels weren't good. He wasn't getting the nutrients. They're like, right, well you've gotta stay here. I was like, when you stay in hospitals, babies die. And I've got two children at home. So I was like, no, I'm going.

    I said, come on mom, we're going. She said, do you think you should stay? And I said, no, Andy, I can't remember where he was, I think he was Darby somewhere. Um, there's no reception in the hospital. So I got outside and I rang him and that's when I heard his voice, you know, burst into tears. Um, And he said, well, do you think maybe you should stay?

    I said, no, I'm gonna go and get, and you know, but actually my, in my mind, I was really just thinking about Hannah because, you know, mom going to hospital doesn't always, it's not always a good thing that she was at school by this point. Um, we had, uh, a toddler and I just thought, uh, if she comes home and I'm not there, You know, so I said to them, right?

    So I went back in, I said, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna get a bag. I'm gonna pick my children up. I'm gonna sort everything out, and then I'll come back in. They said, okay. They got, um, a bed for me on the antenatal ward. Um, well, I didn't know that that was the start of a really long journey.

    So I got home, they just, you know, sat with Han and I plaited her hair and you know, God just orchestrates things. So my friend, um, the same friend who I'd been with when I thought I might be pregnant, said, oh, you know, um, just, I'd really like to see you. Can I come stay? Cuz we didn't work Fridays, uh, I was like, yeah, come down, I'll be home at this time we just got a hospital appointment, so I, she was there before me and Andy had got home.

    So I went to get Hannah from school. And I said, can you look after my children? She went, yes. So she, she was there, she came for a night. Um, and it just felt, I didn't get to see her at all, but she looked after the children. So anyway, I was going for like, uh, I was having a monitoring baby three times a day. So I'd stayed then that night.

    Um, And then they did, like every time you move around the hotel, other hotel, the hospital, you had to have a Covid test. They're all doing fine. Um, and then they sent one away. So I'd probably been over about 36 hours and they came and they said, you've tested positive for Covid. I was like, I was like, that's nice.

    Can I go home? They're like, no. I said, so they literally, I was incarcerated in the side room, couldn't leave. Um, I had to go for a scan, like I had a scan book

    Anna: I mean, that is just not what you need on top of everything else.

    Jessica: I mean,

    During

    Anna: a pregnancy?

    Jessica: I felt like such a fraud because I had no symptoms. I was really very well, there was no, and now like on the antenatal ward, like all the side rooms, they were really poorly, really sick mums.

    And I was like, can I have a cup of tea please? Um, but you know, I'm really thankful for what happened. So I went, they didn't, there was no pro protocol of if I went home, how I could come back into the hospital with Covid. They just. Like it just, so I just had to stay. Um, so I was there for six days.

    Anna: because presumably this was before vaccines or any,

    Jessica: So it was, you could still have the fact there. No, I think like halfway through. So what was that? That was 21. Mid 21. So the vaccine, so the world were kind of open, but not quite. Yeah. Hospital was still very much, uh, like you could only, only the father could come onto an antenatal ward, no children and nothing like that.

    So, um, Uh, yeah. So they finally let me, I had my scan, um, and he was really small and they said, okay. Um, and I think, I really believe that if I hadn't had tested positive Covid, they would've delivered him there and then, so I was about 30 weeks at this point. So I went home at 31 weeks, um, and I was still kind of coming in.

    I was still at work cuz you know, I was thirty one weeks pregnant. I did my handover from a hospital bed. I wrote my handover note. Um, I was doing all of those things and then it was, um, Yeah, I was still doing all this stuff with Hannah's house. I'd planned to do this big launch in baby loss awareness week in the October.

    So this was, uh, kind of the end of September. Uh, and he was due in December. Um, and then, So we made a plan that I would go home. That was, that was on the Friday. Uh, I did my handover on Friday morning. I went in to hospital to see the consultants and I was too black to go back in on Sunday. Um, so I went in for another scan on the Saturday, went back in Sunday night.

    Um, Had a beautiful midwife and she was like, do you know why you're here? Uh, I burst into tears. I said, they can deliver baby. He's too small. I didn't, we didn't even know what his prognosis was. Like, we know what he gonna live like. He was perfectly formed. He was just small. Um, and I just, you know, he said, right.

    Stopped everything. She was amazing. It was like nine o'clock on the Sunday night, she managed to get the head of neonates down to talk to us. She had an anesthetist to come and talk to us and tell about what would happen, what would happen to baby, like, whether it was gonna be delivered. Um, and so then they get started this transfusion, which um, can't even remember what it's called, something sulfate, but it's to protect his brain in case he was like delivered like in the middle of the night.

    Cause he was so small. But it makes you, um, Feel very hot. Like your head's really hot and like, so she said she, it might give you some really, um, unfortunate symptoms. I was like, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. About 20 minutes. Andy's like, you're right. I said it's not a good feeling. Um, But in the middle of all that, I had this knock on the door.

    There was a voice that said, oh, hi, it's only me. And it was my midwife who had taken care of, who had delivered Emelia. Um, and I haven't seen her since then. Like I'd text her a few times. And so she came and she sat and she cried with us. We showed her the pictures of Hannah being grown up and Dan. And so I was at peace then.

    And so, um, like I was on the labor ward because they had, because I'd had to have this thing, um, And it was very loud and I don't think I really slept. And then Andy came back in the morning and I was being monitored, so I kind of knew that I was just gonna be there until he was gonna be delivered. And then we had this lovely consultant who just kind of kept coming in and out.

    Um, But he was, baby was starting to struggle, so his heart rate was dipping and then he was struggling to get it back up and she came in, um, just before lunch and she looked at me and you, you know, when you get that feeling. And she just didn't look right. She went out, she made a phone call, she came back in and she was getting whiter and whiter.

    And I was like, it's not good. And like 20 minutes later, the registrar came in. She was like, right. And she's looking at the notes. She's like, okay, we're going to theater. And I was like, okay. Like later she said, no. Now. I said, okay. And he was born maybe an hour later and he came out with a roar, he was uh, about 20 centimeters.

    He was just under a kilogram, so just under two pounds. Um, And he's a little fire. He, uh, he spent a couple of hours in, um, neonates, H D U in intensive care and then he was in H D U and they, I mean, I dunno how they did it. They managed to get my hospital bed into the neonates intensive care. So Andy had seen him, but I hadn't seen him.

    And so again, I was eating tea & toast. Yeah. In intensive care. And, uh, I looked here, I was like, He's just so small, so, so small. Um, and I just had all of these beautiful people taking care of me. I had this midwife who stayed with me, like trying to get the, the milk expressed. And so, and then I kind of started to get tired, so they took me up to the ward.

    Um, and then I woke up at six o'clock the next morning and they wheeled me down. Um, And I had had my breakfast in there. I was trying to express the milk and it just wasn't working. And then I got upstairs and I had a massive hemorrhage and had to pull the emergency cord, I lost loads of blood. And I think, I think they gave me some painkillers.

    I think they might have given me some and they couldn't morphine. And I woke up 12 hours later and Andy was there and they were like, he was like kind of think we might need some milk for baby. So I hadn't seen him then for like nearly like the rest of the day. So we managed to go down after dinner.

    Anna: But he was absolutely roaring.

    Jessica: He was fine by the time we got down to him.

    He was he was still in, yeah, in H D U. He was just small, so they call it, um, uh, growing and feeding, which is what he was doing. So then started off like he had to have a little line sewn into his foot and that is actually the only evidence that he was ever in neonates. He's got a tiny little scar, so, um,

    Anna: Yeah. Amazing really,

    Jessica: yeah, absolutely.

    Anna: I, I just kind of like think through like all of your story and, you know, gosh, what a rollercoaster of ups and downs, you know, through having your family. Um, and just. Yeah, just like the highs and lows. But one thing that strikes me through it is just that there's this kind of like just knowing God's presence and like looking after you through all of it.

    But I just, I just wondered like kind of what's that kind of, if you could distill it down to one thing, what's the kind of. What, what's the sort of standout lesson or thing that you've learned through all of it? What's kind of like, if you could just distill it down to one thing, what would that be like?

    What kind of, what, what have you learned through all of it? You know, through all of the ups and downs of grief and loss and, and also like, you know, the babies that, you know, were born healthy as well, you know, the family you have got, like, what's, what's the kind of. Yeah. Life motto, I guess, or lesson that you've kind of would take away from all of that if you could.

    Jessica: I think it, well, I think God always answers Prayers, but it doesn't come as we would want or as we would expect.

    Hmm.

    Um, and you know, he says, you know Romans, that all things work together for the good of those who are called according to his purpose. And I think I would never have chosen for Emelia to die ever, never ever. But so much good has come from her life. So much, um, purpose. And she still lived and breathed. And someone pointed out to me that actually she lived a life of love. In this fallen world where there is so much hurt that all she knew on this earth was love and kiss. It's, and I think that's beautiful for me.

    I really like that. I just, you really. Carries me on the days when I remember, you know, think, oh, because although I know she, if she had a choice to come back and be with us, you know, why would you choose that when you've got heaven in all of its perfection? Um, but it doesn't miss that I am wholly aware that she's missing from me.

    Anna: Hmm.

    Jessica: Um, and I know it is a, a time, I know eternity is gonna be amazing to be with her and the other two babies, three babies. Um, but I think that it would be to just to get up again, that you have already lived the worst day you thought you were ever gonna encounter, um, and that there is the pain of being separated from your loved one, from your baby.

    But there is, I think it's a worse pain to not heal from it and to live that life with pain that you can heal from, but it, it also hurts. It hurts to deal with the fact that you trusted God and you were expecting a Prayer to be answered, or that you were waiting for the manifestation of your family to come and it hasn't come this side of heaven.

    Um, That is also painful. But he has a peace and you can walk in that peace and let go of the grief. But I think sometimes, so you know, when my father-in-law died, we have wonderful memories of him. But when you lose a baby, you don't have those memories. You have the dreams or the hopes that you think have died.

    And it is definitely a decision to heal from them. It is definitely a decision to trust God and you know, if you've been standing and believing. That trust can be shaken, um, and I think you know, all of the, the well meaning loving Christ-centered friends can tell you. All of what the gospel says, but until you come to that place of that revelation for yourself,

    Anna: Mm.

    Jessica: um, and I think that's when you, and people like you and me who have walked it can come alongside and say, it's gonna take as long as it takes.

    Um, and there

    Anna: But that's also what I love about your story is that like, God, wasn't, it strikes me that God wasn't willing to just leave you like half healed or semi healed or a bit healed. Like, I love that part of your story where you talked about the fact that like, God was like, Uhuh, we're not, you haven't sorted this out properly yet. Your grief

    Jessica: Yeah, absolutely.

    Anna: is still affecting you and like just that. That to me, that just really speaks of how God wanted to heal you and make you whole. And that was part of the, that healing process meant that you were so much more equipped to then serve other women that are in this space. And you know, everything you're doing with Hannah's House Charity now and supporting other grieving families, you know, that's possible because, You know, God cared too much to leave you half healed or partially healed, or, and I know you would probably say, oh, you know, it's still a journey

    Jessica: it is. It's definitely progressive, isn't

    Anna: know, griefs still there of course, because it never fully heals this side of heaven. But I love the fact that like, yeah, God doesn't do a half baked job, and that's really clear in your story. And that, just that whole kind of what was, what was the strap line you said for Hannah's House again?

    Jessica: dare, dare to hope. Dare to

    Anna: Dare to hope. I love that. Yeah. Dare to hope that you know, something good can come out of the worst situations.

    Jessica: There is hope. Yeah. To begin. The baby loss is not the end of your story, is it? It's not the end. Um, and so when you. Don't have that memories. The pain can be sometimes the only thing you associate with your baby. And so I know that it's really painful to let go of that. Um, I'd remember, you know, quite, it was probably summer, like the sun was shining and I had dropped Hannah at nursery and um, I dropped her at nursery and it's like opposite beautiful park.

    And I'd been for a run. I got in a car and I put the radio on and I was singing. Pulled up outside the house and I was feeling really happy and light and burst into tears cause I wasn't in pain and I hadn't thought about her for a couple of hours. And it is that kind of, and I know there are um, are women out there who are hurting, who are going through that battle of, you know, living their lives and not wanting to let go of the pain.

    Cause it's all they've got. But, you know, Jesus came,

    Anna: the memories linked to the pain.

    Jessica: Yeah, Jesus came that we don't have to live in the pain and that we can give it to him. You know? Come to me, all those who are heavy burdened. I was trying to explain to Dan what a burden was. He's like, well, is this something you carry around?

    Why don't you just put it down? I was like, but you know, it's not a physical burden, but it can, it does feel like that. You know, sometimes, you know, if you've been like, you feel like it's on your shoulders, like you ever seen a person who's depressed and they can't hold their head up, you know? But when we get in the presence of God, you know, all that can be gone.

    But it is again, still a surrender. You've still got to make that decision that you can trust him. You can let go of the pain and that it's okay and there's something better at the end of it.

    Anna: Yeah, and certainly your, your family's story, you know, clearly. So, such a clear testimony of that and yeah, I'm just really excited to see what God does with it all next. But I mean, I could talk to you all day, Jessica, honestly, about this. I know we could talk about

    Jessica: Yeah.

    Anna: this forever, um, but I'm, I am aware of time and we're getting to the end of this podcast, but.

    Obviously it would be great to just kind of share with us where people can connect with you more if they connect with your story or wanna learn more about Hannah's house, perhaps like it's a wonderful charity, particularly for anyone who's sort of in the West Midlands, Coventry area, kind of where you are.

    Um, and further afield too. But can you just quickly like, yeah, just tell us where people can find you, find out more, connect with you if they want to. Um, cuz it's such a wonderful resource.

    Jessica: Thanks Anna. Well, you can find us at hannahshouse.org.uk or on social media @hannah's house Cov is our handle, so you can find us there. And we are on LinkedIn too. So I mean, even if you, uh, you wanna have a little, an anonymous chat, you can, we've got a chat function on our website and someone.

    Probably me. I'll come back to you with some support or so please don't, don't be alone in your pain. Just reach out. Yeah.

    Anna: Definitely, yeah. So many fab resources on the website, so do check it out. And even, even if you know it's not something you need personally, you know, it's, it's surprising, you know, most, most people know somebody who's been affected by pregnancy loss, don't they? It's, I think it's one in four. Um, so even if you don't think you do, you probably will meet someone at some point.

    Who's affected by this issue, even if it's not you. So I think it's. To be honest, I'm, you know, I'm a big, big advocate for this too, but I think everybody needs to learn more about this subject and know how to support other people, so yeah, totally recommend that. Jessica, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

    It's been so lovely to have you on. What's the story? Thank you for being here.

    Jessica: Thanks so much for having me Anna.

    Matt: And just like that, we have reached the end of another fascinating conversation. Now remember to check out Crowd Church at www.crowd.church even if you might not see the point of church. You see. We are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus can help us live a more meaningful life. We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow.

    And you are welcome at Crowd Church. Don't forget to subscribe to the What's the Story podcast on your favorite podcast app because we've got a treasure trove of inspiring stories coming your way. And we would basically hate for you to miss any of them. And just in case no one has told you yet today, remember you are awesome.

    Yes, you are created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. What's the story is a production of Crowd Church, a fantastic team including Anna Kettle, Sadaf Beynon, and me, Matt Edmundson, uh, and Tanya Hutsuliak work behind the scenes tirelessly to bring you all these fabulous stories. Our theme song is a creative work of Josh Edmundson.

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