#15 Gentleness
Time Stamps
00:00 - Welcome from Matt and Jan
04:05 - Talk: Gentle Giants - How Humility Strengthens Your Spiritual Life with Dave Connolly
07:02 - Understanding Gentleness as a Fruit of the Spirit
10:19 - Biblical Examples of Gentleness in Action
14:24 - Practical Ways to Cultivate Gentleness
31:33 - Conversation Street: Finding Strength in Gentleness
38:28 - Gentleness in a Divided World
In a world where volume often equals influence and aggression passes for strength, could gentleness actually be the superpower we're all missing?
This Sunday, Dave Connolly continued our "Becoming Whole" series by exploring gentleness – a fruit of the Spirit that's often overlooked but might be exactly what our fractured world needs most.
More Than Being 'Nice'
When we hear the word "gentleness," what comes to mind? Maybe someone soft-spoken or mild-mannered? Perhaps we think of it as a predominantly female trait?
Yet as Dave explained, biblical gentleness goes far deeper than just being 'nice.' The Greek word used in Galatians 5 carries connotations of strength under control – power that chooses restraint.
During Conversation Street, Jan noted how rarely we hear teachings on gentleness compared to other spiritual topics: "I think it's a lot meatier subject than we first thought." And she's right – this isn't a lightweight virtue but a robust character quality that transforms how we navigate our relationships, work, and conflicts.
The Biblical Case for Gentleness
Dave highlighted several key scriptures that underline the importance of gentleness:
Ephesians 4:2 - "Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love."
Matthew 11:29 - Jesus describes himself as "gentle and humble in heart."
Philippians 4:5 - "Let your gentleness be evident to all."
Far from being a peripheral quality, gentleness is central to Christlike character. During the talk, Dave pointed to several biblical figures known for their gentleness:
Moses, described in Numbers 12:3 as "more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth," who demonstrated gentleness in leading the often rebellious Israelites.
David, who showed restraint and respect toward King Saul even when Saul was trying to kill him.
Jesus, the ultimate example, who consistently demonstrated gentleness in his interactions with the sick, the outcast, and the sinful.
In each case, these weren't weak men – they were powerful figures who chose gentleness as their approach when harshness would have been easier.
Gentleness in Practice
What does gentleness look like in your daily life? Dave offered several contexts where we can practice this virtue:
In personal relationships: Listening well, speaking kindly, avoiding harsh words
In the workplace: Treating colleagues with respect, offering constructive feedback without aggression
As parents: Nurturing children without harshness, using a gentle tone even in discipline
In public: Showing kindness and respect toward others, using considerate language
During Conversation Street, Matt and Jan reflected on how rare but powerful genuine gentleness is. Jan observed: "Someone who is truly gentle...they disarm you. It's like someone throwing cold water over your head – they have that impact on me."
This rings true in a world where we often come ready for battle in our interactions – "ready to fight or defend," as Jan put it. Gentle people break that cycle, creating safe spaces for honest connection.
Strength, Not Weakness
One of the most important clarifications from the discussion was that gentleness isn't weakness. As Jan emphasised: "A gentle person is not a pushover. Jesus was very gentle, Moses was gentle, but you wouldn't mess with either of them."
The point was clear: gentleness flows from security, not insecurity. It's like Jesus before Pontius Pilate – he didn't need to defend himself or prove anything because he was secure in who he was.
Matt added that gentleness requires strength: "I think it gives you a different kind of strength...a deep-seated strength in humility which says, 'I know who I am in Christ and I can be secure in that.'"
This is the paradox of gentleness – it appears weak to the world but actually demonstrates profound inner strength. As Dave quoted from Max Lucado: "I choose gentleness. Nothing is won by force."
Gentleness in a Divided World
Perhaps the most timely aspect of the conversation was how gentleness applies to our increasingly polarised society. With elections coming up in both the UK and US, social media will likely become even more vitriolic in the months ahead.
Matt emphasised that while Christians should absolutely engage in political discussions and hold convictions, the way we engage makes all the difference: "Engage in the debates, engage in the conversation, engage in the politics, but remember the principle of gentleness."
This doesn't mean abandoning principles or avoiding difficult conversations. Rather, it's about approaching those conversations with humility instead of hostility, seeking understanding instead of simply scoring points.
As we navigate an increasingly harsh and divided culture, gentleness stands out all the more. It's like what Andy noted in the comments: gentleness is "the opposite of being self-serving," which is refreshingly countercultural.
Your Gentleness Challenge
As we continue our journey toward wholeness, here's a simple challenge to cultivate gentleness this week:
Notice your triggers: When do you find it hardest to respond gently? Is it with certain people, topics, or situations?
Practice self-awareness: Before responding in moments of frustration, take a breath and ask, "Is what I'm about to say or do gentle?"
Start small: Choose one relationship or context where you'll intentionally practice gentleness this week.
Remember your security: When tempted to react harshly, remember who you are in Christ – secure, loved, and free from having to prove yourself.
Dave closed his talk with a powerful prayer: "Father, I pray that through the power of your Holy Spirit, the fruit of gentleness will be evident in our lives, and that how we are gentle with ourselves and with others would bring you much glory."
Join us next Sunday as Dan Orange continues our exploration of the fruits of the Spirit with a look at self-control – the final fruit in our series before we dive into a new focus on identity in Christ.
"Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love." (Ephesians 4:2)
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CROWD | online church and Restream.io on 2024-06-02 at 18.00.03
Matt Edmundson: [00:00:00] Welcome to this week's crowd church service. We are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps us live a more meaningful life. We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow. I want to invite you to connect with us here at Crowd Church and there are a few ways that you can do just that.
Firstly, you can engage with crowd from any device during our live stream. And if you're up for it, why not invite a few friends over and experience the service together. Church is all about connecting with God and connecting with others. And one of the easiest ways for you to do that is to also join a crowd service.
One of our mid week groups where we meet online together to catch up and [00:01:00] discover more about the amazingness of Christ. You can also subscribe to our podcast called What's The Story, where we deep dive into stories of faith and courage from everyday people. More information about all of these things that I've mentioned can be found on our website at www. crowd. church, or you can reach us on social media at crowdchurch.
If you're new to Crowd or new to the Christian faith and would like to know what your next steps to take are why not head over to our website, crowd. church forward slash next. For more details.
And now, the moment you've been waiting for is here. Our online church service starts right now. Good evening and welcome to Crowd Church. My name is Matt. Beside me is the [00:02:00] talented.
Jan Burch: John Burch! Hello, everyone.
Matt Edmundson: That was slick. It's like we rehearsed that.
Jan Burch: Yeah,
Matt Edmundson: We didn't,
Jan Burch: did we?
Matt Edmundson: No. I did. It's great that you're here with us.
Welcome to Crowd Online Church. Hi. Welcome to our online church service. I've got it . I can hear myself twice. Lemme just turn the volume down on that. Just making sure we're out on the old gram, which I think we are. 'cause Lala's on there. Yeah. So Good evening Lala. Good
Jan Burch: evening Andy. Good evening.
Matt Edmundson: And is there Matt? Oh yeah. Electric orange. Greetings also on the Gram Mac crew on YouTube.
. So we're on YouTube, we are on Facebook. We are on Instagram. Great that you are joining us. So we are an online church for those that might not see the point of church, like we said at the beginning. Yeah, join in the comments. Let us know where you're watching from. Always great to hear from people, but Jan, what have we got coming up today?
Jan Burch: We have the wonderful Dave Connolly [00:03:00] speaking about gentleness.
Matt Edmundson: We do.
Jan Burch: Yeah. Which is a fruit of the spirit. You have to explain what that
Matt Edmundson: means now, for those that might not know.
Jan Burch: So it's in the Bible, they talk about fruits of the Spirit in the New Testament, and there are five peace, love, patience, kindness, oh, there's more than five.
Peace, love, patience, kindness, goodness. And self control. Self
Matt Edmundson: control. Very good. Well done. And do you know who's talking about self control next week?
Jan Burch: I don't know. Dan Orange. Yeah. Lovely.
Matt Edmundson: Dan Orange. He's coming next week to talk about self control. So yeah, this little sort of mini series on the fruits of the spirit.
Jan Burch: Yeah, it's great. I'm really enjoying it. Yeah,
Matt Edmundson: that's been really good. And the reason we're doing this is because we're doing a series about how to become whole, right? So I'm becoming whole. And We're talking about spiritual health, and a part of spiritual health is the fruits of the Spirit, like you say, that's basically what happens when you connect with the [00:04:00] Holy Spirit, as we as Christians believe the Holy Spirit lives in us.
If he does, there's the outworking of that, the fruit of that in our lives. We talked about the fruit of the Spirit, so that's why we're talking about the fruit of the Spirit, just to give you some kind of context. It's all in this big series on the Becoming whole. So you're looking forward to it?
Jan Burch: Absolutely.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Very good. Have you had a good day, by the way?
Jan Burch: Yes. Thank you. Yeah. In a way this weekend. It's been to see my in laws. Yeah. So it's been lovely.
Matt Edmundson: Some would not necessarily agree that's a good thing.
Jan Burch: No, it's been restful. Yes.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. Cue the in law jokes in the comments.
But be warned if you make in law jokes and your in laws see them, I hold no responsibility whatsoever. My in laws are also awesome. Just saying that in case they're watching. Let's jump into it. So we have got Dave Conn talking about gentleness. What's going to happen now is we're going to play The Talk.
We're going to listen to Dave talk about gentleness. [00:05:00] Write your thoughts, write your ideas in the comments. And then Jan and I are going to be back for what we affectionately still call Conversation Street because I've not had a better name for it.
And
Matt Edmundson: so yeah, we're going to chat about the talk. In other words, We're going to come back, we're going to talk about the comments.
We're going to talk about your questions. We can talk about stuff that Dave's brought up in the talk. So it's gonna be a real old chatty time. So stick around with us. Oh, Graham's in the comments. Hey, Graham, been a while since I've seen you. Matt has got no in law jokes. Fair play. So here's Dave's talk. He says looking for the right button.
Here it is. John and I will be back after this.
Dave Connolly: Welcome, thank you for joining us today. We're continuing our series on the fruit of the Spirit and today we're going to focus in on the topic of gentleness. Our key verse for today is found in Ephesians chapter 4 verse 2 [00:06:00] and we read this, Be completely humble and gentle, be patient, bearing with one another in love.
If we were to look in John's Gospel, chapter 8, verses 1 through 11, we can see Jesus interaction with the woman caught in adultery. Here we will see Jesus demonstrating gentleness and compassion in potentially a very difficult situation. The fruit of the Spirit is a set of virtues that we cultivate as we grow in our spiritual walk with Jesus.
These virtues are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. For us as Christians, cultivating the fruits of the Spirit is essential. It [00:07:00] reflects the character of Jesus, and it enables believers to live out their faith in practical ways. In fact, the fruits of the Spirit are evidence of Christ alive in us.
The fruits of the Spirit are not something that we do through our own efforts. Rather, it is a result of our life surrendered to God and being filled with His Holy Spirit. Of all the virtues listed in the Fruits of the Spirit, gentleness can be particularly challenging to understand and practice, often associated with weakness or passivity.
Gentleness is often overlooked in our culture. Yet the Bible presents gentleness as a powerful and important quality, both in our relationship with God and with others. [00:08:00] By focusing on gentleness, we can explore what it means to embody this fruit of the Spirit and how it can transform our lives. Gentle behaviour can be demonstrated in many different contexts.
In personal relationships, it may involve listening and speaking kindly and avoiding careful words. For the workplace, it may mean treating co workers with respect and offering constructive feedback in a gentle and non threatening manner. As parents, we need to be gentle. And this needs to be demonstrated as we nurture our children, avoiding harsh punishments and using a gentle tone and demeanour, rather than being judgemental and reactionary.[00:09:00]
And then in the public arena, it may look like showing kindness and respect towards others, avoiding aggressive or rude behaviour, and using gentle and courteous language. In all contexts, gentle behaviour involves showing kindness, patience and respect towards others. We should seek to build others up instead of tearing them down.
I'm sure you would agree that sounds reasonable. But more importantly, it's Biblical. Gentleness is a prominent theme in the Bible. And is often associated with qualities such as humility, meekness and compassion. And in the New Testament, Jesus is described as gentle and humble in heart. We read that in Matthew 11 verse 29.
And he modelled this gentleness [00:10:00] in his interaction with others. The Apostle Paul also emphasised the importance of gentleness. We read in Philippians 4 verse 5, Let your gentleness be evident to all. In 23, gentleness is listed as one of the fruits of the Spirit. Emphasizing its importance, its significance for all believers.
Throughout the Bible, gentleness is portrayed as a powerful transformative quality. One that reflects the character of God and is essential for healthy relationships and community. Many biblical figures are known for their displays of gentleness towards others. One example is Moses, who God used to do great things.
Who's described as being very humble, more so [00:11:00] than anyone else on the face of the earth. We read in Numbers 12, verse 3. Moses demonstrated gentleness in his leadership of the Israelites, often interceding on their behalf and seeking to reconcile them with God. Another example is David, who showed gentleness towards King Saul, even when Saul was seeking to kill him.
And David refused to do any harm to Saul, recognizing his position as God's anointed, and instead showed Saul kindness and mercy. Jesus, of course, is the ultimate example of gentleness. He embodied this quality throughout his life and ministry. Jesus healed the sick, fed the hungry, forgave sinners, always [00:12:00] demonstrating compassion and love towards those he encountered.
These examples remind us that gentleness, is a good and powerful force for good, one that can transform lives and relationships. As Christians, cultivating gentleness is an essential aspect of following Jesus. Gentleness reflects the character of God, who is kind, compassionate, and gracious towards us.
When we show gentleness to others, we are showing them love and respect, and creating an environment of safety and trust. Gentleness also helps us to build stronger relationships with others. As it allows us to communicate and resolve conflict, as we seek to follow Jesus and live out his love in [00:13:00] the world, gentleness is an important quality to cultivate.
One that can bring healing, reconciliation and peace. If we want to cultivate gentleness in our own lives, there are some practical steps we can take. I want to encourage you to seriously take some time to reflect on God's character and his gentle nature towards us. His love is what we should be emulating with those around us.
Practice empathy towards others. This can help us to respond with kindness and compassion, even when we disagree with them. Practice self control and avoid reacting harshly when we get hurt or offended. Seek to forgive those who have wronged us, as this can help to promote [00:14:00] healing in relationships. Ask for the Holy Spirit's help in cultivating gentleness in our lives by taking these practical steps.
We can cultivate gentleness in our own lives and become agents of God's love and compassion for the world around us. As we draw to a close today, can I leave you with these final thoughts? Gentleness is defined in the dictionary as The quality of being kind, tender, or mild mannered. In terms of the fruit of the spirit, the kind of gentleness we are interested in involves showing humility and thankfulness, thankfulness towards God, as well as polite and restrained and compassionate behaviour towards others.
If we think about gentleness, In terms of its [00:15:00] opposites, we find that it is countered by a desire for revenge, or a sense of self importance, or the expression of anger. I'd like to leave with you today a quote by Max Lucado. I choose gentleness. Nothing is won by force. I choose to be gentle. If I raise my voice, may it be only in praise.
If I clench my fist, may it be only in prayer. If I make a demand, may it only be of myself. For I pray that through the power of your Holy Spirit, that the fruit of gentleness will be evident in our lives. And that how we are gentle with ourselves and with others. Would bring you much glory. We ask it in your name.[00:16:00]
Amen. God bless you.
Matt Edmundson: Welcome back. Thanks Dave. Great talk. Really
Jan Burch: good. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Gotta love it when Dave talks. Yeah, definitely. Matt Crew definitely loves it when Dave talks. I can see it in the comments. Matt's you gotta love a Dave Connolly talk, as we know it will be succinct, shorter than Edmo's, and will be off the air by seven.
Jan Burch: That's terrible.
Matt Edmundson: Andy said, the Liverpool accent is strong with this one. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Dave is a born and bred Scouser. In fact, if you've not heard Dave's What's the story, Have you heard it? Yeah, I
Jan Burch: have. Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: So what's the story as a podcast that we do? Yeah. Where we talk to people about their story, about their faith story.
And if you've not yet heard it, check out Dave Conner's one it is absolutely brilliant and fascinating is yeah. So do go check that out. You can find out more what's the story podcast.com Or you can head over to the website, which is www. Crowd Church. All you can find is [00:17:00] at Crowd Church on social media.
There you go. So do check out Dave's story. So yeah, anyway, let's talk about Dave's talk. What were your thoughts, Jen? What stood out?
Jan Burch: Do you know what I think there was so much more there than, immediately, if you mentioned certain words from the Bible, like hope or faith, there's quite a lot that comes quite quickly, you can think of different things.
But with gentleness, um, I see it as a characteristic of someone being kind Yeah. And mild mannered that, that sort of person. But Dave managed to show us so much more. Just so many really important. Aspects to gentleness. Yeah. Which I think he was an excellent talk.
He talked about difficulty in society, talked about as parents. Yeah. He talked about, with your [00:18:00] friends and and then gave examples of people in the Bible and how they show gentleness. So I think it was really well covered and I think it's, A lot of a meatier subject than we first thought, or certainly I did anyway.
Matt Edmundson: I think it's a fair comment because you're right in the sense that faith we talk a lot about in church. Yeah. Forgiveness, we talk a lot about prayer, we talk a lot about worship, the standard things, aren't they? The standard topics of Christianity that we talk a lot about. That's right. But I can't remember hearing more than probably one, two, maybe three talks ever on the topic of gentleness.
No, me neither. Do you know what I mean? It's it's not something that we talk about, but actually, from, the, just the brief few scriptures that Dave went through. Yeah. It's obviously talked about a lot in the Bible, isn't it? Actually the command to be gentle, to exhibit gentleness in our life.
Jan Burch: And the fact that it's listed as [00:19:00] one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Yeah. As in the character of Jesus is really important, I know this is a bit, non PC, but I often, I don't know if you do, Matt probably think of gentleness as being more of a female trait, however, completely wrong, it isn't.
Yeah. All the examples that Dave has given us today are all males. Yeah, that's interesting because I would have said,
Matt Edmundson: That, and I'd have probably said it the other way around, not that men are more gentle than women, I don't think that at all, but I think it just feels like, That when it talks about gentleness and scripture, it is aimed specifically, it feels like he's talking directly more to men.
Yeah. That actually, men you have a habit of maybe not exhibiting. So maybe you're right actually, maybe it is a more of a feminine trait and men [00:20:00] need to learn to exhibit it. I appreciate we've just gone and stereotyped the whole thing.
Jan Burch: Yeah, I think we all do. Females as well. There's a lot of non gentle women,
Matt Edmundson: yes, but yeah. And it's, I think it's always stepping off into boundaries here, but I think society on a whole is becoming a lot less gentle. And actually the opposite of gentleness is harshness, isn't it? It's brutality. It's revenge, it's aggressiveness, self importance. Thank you. Yeah, all of that stuff. I see that more and more in society.
And I see less and less gentleness. And you know what, it's going to get worse. Because we've got the UK elections and the US elections this year. So it's just going to become an awful lot worse. Andy's put in the comments, remember a time when we referred to men as gentlemen? Oh, of course. Yeah. That's a good point, Andy.
It is. Although, did you know, the gentleman is not a, it's not derived from the word gentleness. I think it's derived from a French word,
Jan Burch: Jean, yeah,
Matt Edmundson: some, something to do with [00:21:00] gentry, I think is probably more. And so I think a gentleman, I think that historically, yeah, I think a gentleman. Was someone that was born into a good family, but maybe not born into nobility.
Jan Burch: Not aristocracy. I think that's right.
Matt Edmundson: Matt Crew will fact check this for me, no doubt. But I think that's what it was. Okay. But more recently, Andy, I thought the same thing. Initially, I more recently. I say more recently since probably, the thirties, forties, gentlemen is described specifically men who are gentle towards women.
Yeah. Going back to the men, women thing.
Jan Burch: Yeah,
Matt Edmundson: I like
Jan Burch: it. I was just thinking, Matt, when you were talking then as well, just before, I would say that in, in my life, there have been few gentle people. I would say that of. stood out. I've met hundreds of funny people. I've met [00:22:00] many serious people I've met, you know what I'm trying to say?
But I find that someone who is truly gentle that they disarm you. And I just think It's unexpected. It's like someone throwing cold water over your head. They have that impact on me that I think we're so used to coming with what's the, what am I trying to say? We're coming ready.
We're we're ready to fight or defend, we're defensive. But I think someone who's gentle, It just disarms you, it's like an ice cream melting in the sun because they're not attacking you. Yeah. And I just think it's a beautiful quality. Yeah. Oh, I love that.
Gentle spirit, someone. I think it's a beautiful thing. I think Sharon's gentle. I think Sharon's got a lovely gentleness about her. Yes,
Matt Edmundson: no, she [00:23:00] has, absolutely. I think that's why people are drawn to her in many ways.
Jan Burch: Yeah, but she's, there's no rush in a conversation. She's, thinks about what she's saying, but I think she answers in a gentle manner.
Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: I'm going to ask her if that's intentional. That's so lovely though. Yeah. So who else would you say are gentle people? Yeah.
Jan Burch: I think Sue Odden has gentleness. I think she's very merciful as well. I love the word mercy. I love what that means. But I think Sue is quite gentle.
Matt Edmundson: If you don't know who Sue is, by the way.
Sue has been on crowd, but a long old time ago. Yeah. But she's a mutual, one friend of the leadership team. Yeah. One of the leadership's, a frontline church, a mutual friend, and she's an absolute legend. Yeah. Matt Cruz. But Suzanne Seward in is a legend in the comments. Yeah. He's also FactCheck me, I think you might be right.
Re gentry, et cetera. Oh yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? This idea of being a gentleman. And bringing back maybe [00:24:00] the slightly later meaning of it in terms of how men treat women. That's going to be an interesting one, isn't it? So I was brought up, right? If you were a gentleman, you would open the door.
You would not sit down first. You would not start eating first. There were certain etiquettes that you have. Don't, I don't know if we still do that as much these days, partly because I think it's not wanted necessarily. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not, I don't know. But it's an interesting one, isn't it, as I'm sitting here talking about parenting, being a gentle parent, have I raised my kids, my boys, especially, to be gentlemen?
That's a really interesting question, one that I've never actually thought about.
Jan Burch: See, I'm still a bit old school. I'm not saying I need a man to open the door for me or hold it open. Of course I don't. I can open a door myself, but I really appreciate [00:25:00] it when that is done for me. I will hold the door open for men or women.
It doesn't matter, but I really appreciate it when it's done for me. And please sit down or, you know, just good manners and courtesy. I think the world is, needs it more. I don't like rude, I think the opposite is rudeness. And Bad Manners. I think that's,
Matt Edmundson: oh, bad manners.
It's
Jan Burch: not nice.
Matt Edmundson: And I assume you're not just talking about the 80s pop group.
Jan Burch: You like doom? Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: That's a whole other podcast. A whole other. All of the conversation, all of the thing. I don't know what to call this. It's not a podcast, it's a thing. But I think I totally agree with you. Let's start a campaign, ladies and gentlemen.
Let's bring back the art of gentleness. And men especially, I can talk to men down the camera. Men, be gentlemen. Learn what it means to be a gentleman. [00:26:00] Especially if you're a teenager. Or in your early, at any age, obviously, you need to be a gentleman. But I think in your early 20s, it's formative, isn't it?
Your late teens, early 20s, that's the formative years. And I think in the world we live in now where entitlement is rife, and division is rife, I think Dave's right. I think gentleness is probably one of the key things we need from the Holy Spirit to help overcome this.
Jan Burch: Graham's just said holding the door open for someone shows respect and a valuing of the other person.
That, yeah, a hundred percent agree with that. I know we live in a a world where we're, people want to be treated equally. And, this, it's such a difficult, Situations, difficult topic to get your head around. I agree with some of that. I don't agree with other things. And I think, in, in talking about holding the door open, as you said, Matt, some [00:27:00] women would be offended if a man did that for them.
You know. To be fair, I have, I don't agree with that. I think it's just politeness. It is. And you, we just have to say thank. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Move on.
Matt Edmundson: I think the I would say I have opened, I do, we, we will move on from the door, I think, but I think it's a really interesting.
What it for me, the door opening thing actually is a symptom of a deeper issue. And so talking about it, I think is really helpful. But I think there have been times when I've opened the door for people and have been criticized by the person I was opening the door for. Inevitably they were, female.
And, I do open doors for both sexes. I just want to point that out. But inevitably, the criticism has come from I don't need you to open the door. What it does in those situations, though, is I'm then going I'm just not gonna open the door for anybody. So I don't know if it's the right thing or the wrong thing to do because you get criticized.
Whereas actually, I think what we should do, [00:28:00] listening to you talk and just going back on this. is actually going, no, blow it. Okay, some people are going to moan and criticise, but I'd rather be moaned for doing something like opening the door than being criticised for being too divisive, too right wing or too left wing or too whatever, do you know what I mean?
And I think, let's bring back the art of gentleness, gentlemen,
Jan Burch: common courtesy. Yeah, women, Get over it.
Matt Edmundson: So you can say that I can't.
Jan Burch: Well, no wonder a man isn't trying to prove he's more, he's stronger or, superior to you by holding a door open. I think it's just a nice gesture.
Don't read too much into it.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. So gentlemen, chivalry is not dead. Let's get back onto it. Absolutely. Let's get back onto it. Andy says it's the opposite of being self serving, gentleness is the opposite of being self [00:29:00] serving, which is very common nowadays. Do you agree with that? Andy's writing this in the comments, by the way, on the YouTube comments, some are coming on the Instagram comments.
So if you're wondering why we're saying all these things, if you've not done so already, put it in the comments. And if you're not watching us live, come join us live. We live stream every Sunday. Get to share your thoughts and ideas in the comments. So yeah, Andy says that gentleness is the opposite of being self serving, which is very common nowadays.
What are your thoughts on that?
Jan Burch: Yeah I agree. And I think what Dave spoke about in the in the talk was how when we use gentleness, when we have it as part of our character, when we cultivate it in our lives it can transform society, it can transform lives and relationships. So I think it's a very yes, I think it is the opposite of thinking of yourself and stuff, but it's something I think that is so powerful that we've over the years now [00:30:00] underestimated its power.
It gives an example of Moses was known for being the most humble person. He was gentle with the Israelites David was, was a powerful man and we know, he was strong but God, helped him to be gentle with Saul. Holy Atmosphere on him.
Jesus, feel the sick, fed the hungry. These men were undoubtedly strong characters and physically strong, mentally strong, whatever, but they had all learned to be gentle. Yeah. So it was a godly quality to their lives and I think that's what Dave's trying to say, that we need to cultivate us.
It's like a. a garden of weeds, isn't it? Yeah, that we need to prune and yeah, cut back and yeah, water.
Matt Edmundson: Oh, very good analogy. I like this. [00:31:00] I like what you said about because you can't have gentleness unless you have humility. I think the two things go hand in hand. And actually, you can't have gentleness without kindness in a lot of ways, which we talked about a few weeks ago, another fruit of the spirit.
Yeah. And there is obviously overlap in all of these things. If you're a kind person, I think you're a gentle person. If you're a gentle person, then you're kind. Yeah. And Dan Orange is talking about self control next week. You can't be gentle, Dave mentioned this, without self control because it may be the Bible says a gentle word turns away wrath, for example, or a gentle answer turns away wrath I think is the phrase, but in those situations, actually it's easy to lash out.
If you're in the heat of an argument, it's easy just to lash out, but actually it takes self control to go, no, I'm going to give a gentle answer here. It takes humility to go, I'm going to give a gentle answer here, to prefer. So they're
Jan Burch: all linked, aren't they? They're all interlinked.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, they are.
Yeah. This is why you can see it's godly. So I think you're right. And the opposite of [00:32:00] gentleness is being self serving. Actually, the opposite of humility is self serving. Yeah. The opposite of being kind is self serving. Yeah. what I mean? So I think selfishness, the obsession with self, what I get out of it, what are you going to do for me?
Yeah. Yeah. I think these are all very problematic. And I think if I can get slightly contentious for a little minute, because you did. I think it's probably mine. Okay. Yeah. I think we live in a culture that is very good at playing the victim. Yeah, so we live in this sort of victim hood culture as in I there is something not right in my life and it is your fault over there.
And I'm the victim. You're the perpetrator. Now, don't get me wrong. There are times when that absolutely makes sense as a statement. Yeah. But what it also what I also you're right
Jan Burch: as a
Matt Edmundson: sneeze. Sorry, you're right. But I think what it also does with us when we bring in that. When we bring [00:33:00] that essence of culture on ourselves, which says I am a victim, therefore you are the bad guy and I'm the guy that's been wronged and therefore this is your fault.
That's not gentleness. No. That's actually self serving. That's not humility. And I think you can't have a victim mentality and gentleness. Matt Crew just put in the comments medic. I know.
Jan Burch: I'm fine thank you
Matt Edmundson: If only we knew, if only there was a medic in the room. I'm sure
Jan Burch: that could be done.
Matt Edmundson: But do you know what I mean? I think it's a really interesting one, isn't it? That's a really good point Matt. Because when you're, when you become the victim, I think you become very aggressive against your perpetrator. Now, again, there are some things which I think you, People can genuinely be victims of, but nine times out of 10, it's just a, it's a state of mind.
And you're not really a victim of anything other than you're just using it as an excuse. Yeah, self pity. And you're using that excuse to be aggressive against somebody else. [00:34:00] Yeah. And I don't think that is very godly. I'm not gonna lie. I think we have to rip that out of the church.
Jan Burch: That's saying I'm not going to change.
And I don't want to change. I'm not, I'm not gonna cultivate anything else. Yeah. So it, yeah, no, you can't really work very well with people like that, can you? No.
Matt Edmundson: No. And I think actually if you're like that, you're probably gonna stay in that place because these sort of self-pity parties keep you down.
And yeah, I think just something to watch out for really something to watch out for, because it's just not fun. on any kind of level. And I think it's just such a shame. The other thing that I'm going to say, because I, we're talking about these things, let's hit some of these issues head on. And we have a general election coming up in the UK.
I know there's an election coming up in the States. President Trump, President Trump at the time of live streaming has just been convicted. Oh, has he? Yeah. He was the first president ever to be [00:35:00] convicted of a crime. Yeah. So now you've got both sides coming up. One side saying all kinds of things about his, he's a criminal.
The other side coming up saying this is a travesty of justice. And actually, those voices are getting louder and louder and more aggressive. I see it already in the UK between The, the sort of socialist, the Labour Party, the left, the Tories, the right, the hard right, you've got, what's the hard right party?
I've forgotten their name. Do you know the, I can't remember. Anyway, Matt Crew will put it in the comments. But you've got this, you've got this real divergence and you've got this real separation of people and those camps are becoming more and more extreme. And it is going to get horrific on social media, I think over the next few months with name calling and the criticism, both of the government, both of reform.
Thanks, Matt. Yeah. Of different parties of different political beliefs etc. I think as a Christian, whilst it's good to have a [00:36:00] political viewpoint and it is good to get involved in politics. Remember the fruit of the spirit is gentleness.
Jan Burch: It's all the more. As the world is volatile and unstable, I think it's all the more important that we, as believers, grasp hold of these things, it's like, it's essential that People are reeling, people's heads are, people will be frightened, they'll be worried, they'll be, should we, do we need to move out of the States, do we need to leave the UK, where can we go to have a more peaceful secure life, but I'm not sure that is the answer, but we have a God who is our refuge.
Yeah. And his is unchanging. His character doesn't change. Yeah. So we know that, yes, we can still be going through difficult [00:37:00] difficulties, but the character of God doesn't change. That is, he's reliable. A hundred percent. Yeah. Whereas our government leaders are not reliable. Generally, other things, there's only Jesus.
There's only God. Who is our anchor?
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, very well said. So engage in the debates, engage in the conversation, engage in the politics, but remember the principle of gentleness. And talk to people who have different opinions to you. I know Christians who are left, I know Christians who are right, I know Christians who are centric.
God loves them all, right? I love them all. They're all legends. I was on Facebook the other day having a bit of a chat with Al Marshall, because Al Marshall just put a repost of something from the Labour Party on there. And I just wrote a little comment on there. And I basically said, Listen, I'm not sure if I can go left or right at the moment.
I'm still looking into it. But I do know one thing Al, if you were running for Prime Minister, I'd vote for you. And it's just good to engage in a gentle way in these debates. And I think [00:38:00] actually, as Christians, I was listening at oh, who spoke at Frontline last week?
Jan Burch: I was working last week.
Matt Edmundson: Dave Beckland, that's who spoke at Frontline. Oh,
Jan Burch: Yeah. What a legend he is.
Matt Edmundson: And he was talking about how the studies now show that if you take a Christian and you put them in a political party, right? So if I put them in the, either a left leaning party or a right leaning party, that the political views of that party will shape.
Their faith, their views of Christianity more than the Bible itself. And so we take a lot of our understanding of Christianity from the political party that we are in. Rather than using our understanding of Scripture to drive our political policies. And Pete Buttland. That's right. Thanks. I don't know why I said Dave.
I'm thinking of Dave Connolly. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, Pete Butland and I just thought, oh my God. He was so spot on with that, and I think at this time, coming up with general [00:39:00] elections, I'm going to say it one more time, in fact, I'm going to say it a lot over the next few weeks as the elections come up, but gentleness, kindness, self control, demonstrate the fruits of the spirit before you go on social media ranting about the, the Tories or the steer Keir Starmer or whoever it's going to be, right?
Gentleness, just gentleness. Just ask yourself, is this gentle? Yes or no? If it's not, don't post it, because I don't think it's godly, necessarily. It's not to say you can't have an opinion. I just want to point that out. We need wisdom. We do, but do it in a gentle way. Graham
Jan Burch: says about having wisdom as well.
Yeah, another issue is
Matt Edmundson: when we challenge someone, read their behavior.
Jan Burch: Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. How do you challenge someone with gentleness?
Jan Burch: It's not challenging. I think We just show them kindness, we show them love, we don't raise our voice, we just maybe suggest, Oh, do you think, do you feel this way because of, I don't know.
I think we [00:40:00] can just maybe encourage reflection for the person, or we certainly not shouting at them or. Yeah. Telling them what to do because that's not, I don't think one, one thing I'd like to make clear, a gentle person is not a pushover. Yeah. Jesus was very gentle. Moses was gentle, but you wouldn't mess with either of them.
Do you know what I mean? I'm trying to, it's a godly characteristic to be gentle and to be kind. But these people aren't pushovers by any means they're people who've got firm boundaries they're wise, they're, possibly intelligent, but they have godly character and there's no way, I know quite a few, my brother, for example, is a godly man and he is kind and He is gentle but I wouldn't push him too far [00:41:00] because it's not right to do that anyway, but what I mean is that you can still have those characteristics and the gifts, the quality, the fruits of the spirit.
Without becoming weak. Yeah. It actually strengthens you, doesn't weaken you.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah. I think it gives you a different kind of strength, doesn't it? Yeah. It's not the macho strength, but I think it's a deep seated strength in humility, isn't it? Yeah. I think humility is a strength in God, which says I know who I am in Christ and I can be secure in that.
Yeah. And that in itself is a strength, whereas, the opposite of that is always trying to prove yourself, I'm strong, I'm this, I'm that, and I'm going to conquer the world and it's
Jan Burch: like an insecure person, though, isn't it?
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it is, which is the exact opposite of humility, isn't it? Which in itself is not gentleness.
And I think you're right. I think often gentle people are seen as weak people. I think this is the reason why modern society maybe rallies against this cry to have gentleness and [00:42:00] why actually, as Christians, we talk about it. But I think you're right, I think it has been seen as weakness, or has been mistaken for weakness, maybe.
Jan Burch: I was just thinking of Jesus before Pontius Pilate, and he was asking him specific questions, they say, you've said this or that, and Jesus didn't defend himself in any way. Yeah. He didn't, he just said, he gave very brief answers, but he could have, preached, he could have done all sorts, but he didn't, he was just quiet and humble and gentle.
Yeah. And yes, there may be situations where we are like that and people do think. pushover. But if they watch us for months and months and years, they would see that actually that person isn't a pushover. They actually live [00:43:00] by what they say.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, I agree totally. I think it's an integrity that there is an integrity to it.
And I think that you, the safety and security and being gentle. Sorry, the safety of being gentle, I think comes from security. Like we said earlier, you can't be insecure and be gentle, I don't think. So a lot of the, Matt's put there in the comments, there needs to be a lot more kindness on social media.
People feel like they can say whatever they like, partly because it's faceless. You say things on social media that you would never say to someone face to face. But partly because people are insecure. And I think when you understand who God has made you, And what he has put at your disposal. Like you're talking about Jesus.
I'm thinking of the situation in the garden of Gethsemane. They come to arrest him. Peter's response was to pull out a sword and chop off a guy's ear.
Jan Burch: He, his was always physical. That's what I
Matt Edmundson: did. And that's what he did. Whereas Jesus, he just touches the guys here and he [00:44:00] heals him, even though Jesus, there was one time they came to push him off the cliff and it didn't quite work out.
And you're I wonder what happened there. And Jesus is don't you think I can at any point in time, call down a legion of angels and you're all toast.
Jan Burch: Yeah. Yeah. And
Matt Edmundson: he understood the power that he had in his, and who was backing him up. And I think when you understand who's backing you up.
Yeah, then you can be gentle. It's
Jan Burch: a great point. Do you know what I mean?
Matt Edmundson: I think it's that and that security, isn't it? Of knowing who you are in Christ, who I mean, we're going to get into this over the next few weeks, actually, who you are in Christ, a little pre preamble on identity coming up. Stay tuned.
Knowing who you are in Christ, understanding the backup of heaven that you have. And so And God tells us, doesn't he? Actually, the world will think that you're weak, but actually, you're strong. The world will think you're foolish, but actually, it's the wisdom of God in action. And everything in God's kingdom gets turned on its head.[00:45:00]
And I think I understand, I'm understanding that more, the stronger I understand my identity in Christ, and the more secure in that I become, I think, which is why we want to talk about identity. I think understanding who you are enables you. To say things like, don't you think if I want to, I can call down a legion of angels, but I don't need to right now, regardless of what you do to me.
I've got this, we've got this, it's not a problem. And you think it's really interesting way of looking at life.
Jan Burch: I don't know Matt, if you've read Richard Roar Falling Upwards.
Matt Edmundson: No, it's on my reading list though. It's on my Kindle.
Jan Burch: It's a great book. We we were You know, I've told about it quite a few years ago now, but in, in that Richard Rawes a monk, a Catholic priest in America, and he basically is very, some of his teaching is really good.
Excellent. But he talks about there being two halves of [00:46:00] life. The first half is about, finding your identity. It's about, succeeding in your career, paving the way. It's about ego. It's about getting the house, getting the partner asserting yourself in society. Whereas the second part of life.
is more about letting go of a lot of those things that you felt you needed in the first half of life. But he says it's not, not everyone Gets to the second part. I don't mean in premature death. I mean that they stay in that mindset for all of their life. So it's a really interesting book to look at what motivates us as humans, as Christians and how our motivations and our desires change as we mature.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's very true, isn't it? Yeah, it's a great book to read. Like I say, it's on my Kindle. I'm looking forward to reading it. Yeah, [00:47:00] it's very good. I'm off to the States in a week or so's time. So hopefully get plenty of reading time on the plane. Yeah, you just never know, do you? So yes, I think it's a really interesting observation that actually as you get older, your thoughts about life change.
I remember in my early 20s, everything was black and white. Yeah, that was right. This is wrong. As I've got older, I think not only have I realized there's a lot more grey, but actually I'm quite happy sometimes in the grey, which for my personality is quite difficult, by the way, I just want to point that out.
But I think it's your viewpoints do change on things, don't you? And you, I think, I was watching I won't tell you who it was, but it did make me smile. I was watching something earlier on, on on Instagram. And there was a kid doing something. I say kid, I, it sounds really drug free. I'm really sorry.
That's not what it meant. He was, I'm guessing late teens, early 20s. And he was talking about how, guys, if we want to get the most out of life, we've got to do this and things that, [00:48:00] it's like he was giving me life advice. 20 years old. And I'm sitting there listening going. This is really interesting because when I was 20 years old, I was saying what he was saying, and I was doing what he was doing, and I'm not criticizing him at all.
It just made me, it just made me reminisce about when I was in my early 20s. Of course, I've got everything I need to know, and I'm going to tell you how to live your life. Not that I have any life experience whatsoever. Exactly. I've not held a job for more than a few, whatever it is at that point in life.
And I, I could tell you all the things that I'd not done at this point. . But I had all the answers. And actually as I've got older the thing that I've realized is Yeah, I know. I dunno. Anything .
Jan Burch: I remember being on a school trip to France when I was 14, and I remember on the coach, either there or back.
Contemplating life and I remember thinking to myself I'm pretty sure I know most things now. I understand most things that, to get me through life. I don't think there's, there are going to be big surprises [00:49:00] from now on. I remember thinking that clearly, pretty much know everything there is to know right now.
I
Matt Edmundson: I thought the same, early 20s. It's simple. All you got to do is just believe God. That was my answer to everything. But it turns out as I've got older, my thinking's changed. Now, if you're listening and watching this, in your late teens, early 20s, we're not disparaging you in any way. And I love that about that age.
I love that belief and that drive and that passion.
I learnt
Jan Burch: a lot from my teenage years.
Matt Edmundson: Amazing time and absolutely appreciate it. But don't be surprised as you get older, maybe you'll look back on that time and go, Oh, that's interesting. Okay. That's been great. Listen, Jan, I've loved the Conversation Street tonight.
Yeah, me too. That's been good. It's been good talking about gentleness. Yeah, Dave
Jan Burch: Kahn did a great talk. So thank you, Dave.
Matt Edmundson: What a legend. Yeah,
Jan Burch: he's a legend.
Matt Edmundson: So just to let you know what is coming up, ladies and gentlemen, over the next few weeks. Next week, we have Dan Orange talking [00:50:00] about self control as we round up this sort of mini look at the fruits of the spirit.
In this whole thing about spiritual health and this whole thing about wholeness. So whole people are gentle people is probably a thing to say. I don't think you can experience wholeness and not be gentle. Just putting that out there, at least from what I understand of the Bible. So next week we're going to be looking at the last one, self control.
Then we are starting In this whole spiritual health section, like I said, we're going to look at identity. So we're going to spend five weeks looking at identity. The first week we're looking at what it means to be a new creation. Matt wrote in the comments earlier, he said, I'm a new creation. So we're going to, not because you wrote it in the comments, Matt, it just happens to be the first one that we're looking at.
I just want to point that out. So we've got new creation. We've got, it's to be united with Christ. We're looking at what it means to be more than a conqueror. We are looking at what it means to be his workmanship. We've got some good stuff about identity coming up, which I'm really looking forward to.
They're going to spend a couple of weeks looking at not who I am in Christ, which is our [00:51:00] identity, who I am in him, but who he is in us.
Jan Burch: Sounds juicy stuff.
Matt Edmundson: Juicy. And then that will take us all the way through to August. August, we're going to do the usual stuff where we do what we call the non live streams, where we put something out, but it's not technically live.
And we're going to look at going to get some speakers do their favorite psalms. And we'll talk about that. And then in September, we're going to carry on our series about wholeness and we are going to be looking, we're going to start then our journey on the next section, which is soul health, which is your mind, your will, your emotion, what does emotionally healthy Christians look like?
What does it mean to be mentally well and healthy and whole in our thinking? Excellent. So we've got it all going on. It's fantastic. Yeah, you're not going to want to go anywhere. Make sure you like and subscribe to Crowd Church wherever you're listening to this, wherever you're watching this, whether it's on YouTube, Or even if you're watching it through or listening to it through a podcast [00:52:00] platform on catch up, make sure you stay connected.
Do come join us live if you want to join in Conversation Street with us. It's been great. And please
Jan Burch: continue sending in your prayer requests. Oh, yeah. And we really enjoy reading those. And there's been some great answers to prayer. So any of your prayer requests, please continue sending them in.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, do that. There's been actually, I can't tell you the detail, I need to get their permission, but there was one guy who emailed in about his mum, we prayed for his mum's got healed supernaturally, which has been great, I don't think just because of our prayers, by the way, I think it's a collective, we're part of that story.
But there's some incredible things being, been going on. So yeah, if you've got any prayer requests, do let us know. You can reach us on the website, www. crowd. church or via social media at Crowd Church. You can just contact us through any of those mechanisms and we will we will be praying for you.
When do you, where do you store your private jet for the USA? There's Matt. [00:53:00] In my garage. Yeah.
Jan Burch: Where do you think? Where do
Matt Edmundson: you store yours? Do you not store yours in the garage? I just said I'm a little bit confused. Where do normal people store theirs? Where do you store your prodigy? That's a silly question.
I know, it's bizarre, isn't it? I store it with the car. And the rolls. Yours is next to the Bentley. Yeah. Yeah.
Jan Burch: It was last time I looked.
Matt Edmundson: The kid's not taking it out for a joyride. No. I'm a bit too lazy to move
Jan Burch: it, you know how it is, Matt. I'll just
Matt Edmundson: get the butler to do it later. Yeah. Yep. Why not?
Why not? Yes promote, that's right, promote What's The Story. I just love reading the comments, Matt, this tells me everything. So if you want to know more about the What's The Story podcast that I mentioned earlier, Do check that out, whatsthestorypodcast. com, it's just where people come and tell their story.
You've been on it. I have.
Jan Burch: Told your story. I just find it [00:54:00] so interesting, so moving. To listen to people's stories, honestly. Yeah, it's just amazing. Yeah, incredible. You just get
Matt Edmundson: really encouraged by the work you've got in people's lives, which is great. So do check that out. What's the story podcast. com. If you would like to join us in our midweek groups, our midweek community groups, you are more than welcome.
We meet once a week on zoom I think it's seven 30. We meet at seven 30 till eight 30. Then at eight 30 we are doing an online alpha course. If either of those two things are interesting to you , do reach out to us through the website, www dot Crowd Church or via social media at Crowd Church and we will send you the details, either the link to come join us on Zoom or if you wanna know about online alpha letters, notes, where we deep dive into Christianity and answer a whole bunch of questions.
Alpha's really cool. So that's what's going on. I think that's it from me. Is that it from you? Yes,
Jan Burch: it is. Anything else
Matt Edmundson: you want to add?
Jan Burch: No, not really. Just have a practice being gentle. And just to remind you again about the, um, [00:55:00] expanding our vocabulary. I've learned this week the word sanguine.
Matt Edmundson: Sanguine? Yes. Very good.
Jan Burch: Do you know what that means? Very
Matt Edmundson: sanguine.
Jan Burch: I misunderstood it, or I just totally didn't understand what it meant. I thought it meant like bittersweet. Something's sanguine. Anyway, it means actually someone who's optimistic in the face of, difficulty.
Matt Edmundson: Okay.
Jan Burch: How often do we use that word?
And how many situations do we have to use it? Yeah. Yep, that's true. So sanguine sanguine.
Matt Edmundson: And on that bombshell, ladies and gentlemen, I have nothing more to add, I really genuinely don't. It's been genuinely great to talk to you this evening. Thank you so much for joining us. That's it from me.
Thank you. Bye bye. Bless you. Bye for now. Thank you so much for joining us here on Crowd Church. Now, if you are watching on YouTube, make sure you hit the [00:56:00] subscribe button as well as that little tiny bell notification to get notified the next time we are live. And of course, if you are listening to the podcast the live stream podcast, make sure you also hit the follow button.
Now, by smashing the like button on YouTube or writing a review on your podcast platform, it helps us reach more people with the message that Jesus really does help us live a more meaningful and purposeful life. So if you haven't done so already, be sure to check out our website, www. crowd. church, where you can learn more about us.
As a church, more about the Christian faith and also how to connect into our church community. It has been awesome to connect with you and you are awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear and hopefully we'll see you next time. That's it from us. God bless you. [00:57:00] Bye for now.